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Posted by: dromeda 5th January 2023, 04:47 PM

I was making a Spice Girls playlist, wondering what a third album with solos would be like (as there were rumors at the time, before Geri left the group, that there might be solos on the third album).
So, Imagining an alternate reality where the girls never broke up and the solos would be content for the third album, what tracklist would you create based on the songs released around 1999/2001?

A few rules: The album must have 10 songs. You must choose 5 songs from Forever and 5 solo songs from the first solo albums only. A song for every spice girl. ( If you don't want to include Geri, the missing song can be replaced with an other song from forever)

I really liked how the result sounded. I wanted to know your opinion and what your choices would be like.

FOREVER ( with Geri )

1- Holler
2 - Right back at ya
3 - No Trix, No games
4- Let love Lead The Way
5 - Mi Chico Latino
6 - Hotter
7 - Never Be The Same Again
8 - If You Wanna Have Some Fun
9 - We re Not Gonna Sleep Tonight
10 - Goodbye

FOREVER ( without Geri )

1- Holler
2 - Right back at ya
3 - No Trix, No games
4- Let love Lead The Way
5 - Tell Me Why
6 - Hotter
7 - Never Be The Same Again
8 - If You Wanna Have Some Fun
9 - We re Not Gonna Sleep Tonight
10 - Goodbye

Posted by: Voodoo 5th January 2023, 08:40 PM

Why only 10 songs? Forever has 11 songs.

Posted by: dromeda 5th January 2023, 09:23 PM

To keep the same idea as the previous two albums. Forever would only have 10 songs - Goodbye was put in there as a bonus. It doesn't match the rest of the album.

Posted by: spiceboy 5th January 2023, 10:09 PM

Holler would never have happened if Geri had stayed in the group, she couldn't have done the dance and style that was required for it. A 3rd album in 1998 would definitely have been much more poppier ala Spiceworld than with the RnB tones of Spice.

Posted by: McAndrew 6th January 2023, 12:00 AM

I don’t think it could have happened.

But just for the fun of it, these are my favourites:

Holler
Pain Proof
Get Down With Me
Let Love Lead The Way
Mi Chico Latino
What Took You So Long
I Want You Back
Like That
Northern Star
Goodbye

Posted by: dromeda 6th January 2023, 04:45 PM

I always saw Schizophonic as the album that would most closely resemble a third album as 5 piece. Songs like Lift Me Up, Walk Away, Mi Chico Latino, Goodnight Kiss and Bag it Up are 100% Spice Girls music. Bag It Up is almost a version 2 of WDYTYA. Goodnight Kiss sounds a lot like Too Much, by the way.

Posted by: dromeda 6th January 2023, 04:53 PM

Like That goes well with Forever. No Trix No Game too. Victoria's album is the one that best matches the Forever tracklist. I haven't listened to her album in a long time, it used to be my least favorite. Listening to it again, these two songs have aged well

Posted by: dromeda 6th January 2023, 04:53 PM

Like That goes well with Forever. No Trix No Game too. Victoria's album is the one that best matches the Forever tracklist. I haven't listened to her album in a long time, it used to be my least favorite. Listening to it again, these two songs have aged well

Posted by: Yobnedor 6th January 2023, 10:29 PM

Agree with all of this. Mix Schizophonic with some of the leaked 1999 demos and that would have been 1999’s album #3!

Posted by: spiceboy 6th January 2023, 10:47 PM

I am not sure some of the lyrics would have happened as Spice Girls songs though.. like Lift me up, I can definitely see the melody / music being a Spice Girls song but not the lyrics. Same for Bag it up.

Posted by: Mr.X 6th January 2023, 11:45 PM

This. Personally I never seen it being what the fans call the 3rd album.

I think it is more to do with the fans' resentment over Forever and how that whole era panned out at the time. Geri tried to replicate the Spice formulas but wildly missed the mark (in my opinion).

Posted by: McAndrew 6th January 2023, 11:54 PM

Very true that VB’s sound was more in line with the direction of the group at the time. But for me, I preferred when the group mixed genres a bit. As every single took us in a new direction.

The idea of a third album campaign that started with a couple of group singles and ended up launching solo careers could’ve been very exciting though.

Posted by: schizo_spice 7th January 2023, 12:01 AM

I look on most of Schizophonic as a very personal to just Geri record.

Look at Me, Mi Chico Latino, Lift Me Up, Walkaway, Sometime, Let Me Love You, Someones Watching Over Me and You're in a Bubble are pure Geri solo. They wouldn't work as group songs imo

The rest of the album could maybe be adapted to group. Bag It Up could certainly have been a Spice Girls single and yeah Goodnight Kiss has a feel of being the sequel to Too Much.

Posted by: engineer 7th January 2023, 01:02 AM

Look at Me
Lift Me Up
Walkaway
Mi Chico Latino
Goodnight Kiss
Bag It Up
A Day In Your Life
Give you what you want
Someone's Watching Over Me
Goodbye

Posted by: dromeda 7th January 2023, 03:13 AM

😂😂
In this case, I would trade Look at Me to Woman.

Posted by: dromeda 7th January 2023, 03:23 AM

Sure. Even the canceled pop songs from 1999 are far from the style of the previous albums. They tried to follow the trend of the time, which was the pop style of Britney and Backstreet Boys. And for some unknown reason someone said: “forget pop, follow the RnB trend, change the image..” What feels wrong about that time is that many things were left unexplained. As fans, we were afraid of the end, doubt about the paths they would follow as a group, we were enjoying the new image but things were strange. The media was tired of them, wanted to get rid of them. The solos came with a bitter sweet taste. There was a rivalry between the fans to choose which one would get a better position, and honestly everyone was wanting the group to continue in parallel - which was obviously impossible. In 1999 and 2000 Melanie C was the only one who maintained a solo career with the group and the result was disastrous for her: anxiety and depression. I see the Forever era as a special unfinished chapter. First the promised and awaited pop album that never happened. The long-awaited tour that never happened. Bad promotion on top of a controversial album. And an “ending” that has haunted many fans for years to come. No wonder why Forever still causes so much fantasies. The “What if…” era.

Posted by: Mr.X 7th January 2023, 11:18 AM

Absolutely. It felt like there was so much unfinished business during that time, no wonder people see the album in quite bittersweet ways.

I still mantain that the solos killed the group and continue to do so today. I would trade every single one of their solo adventures for another Spice album. Sadly, I don't think it will ever happen again.

Posted by: Piers 7th January 2023, 05:27 PM

I've always thought a lot of the solo material *could* have been group songs. Whether that solo material is good enough for the group's standards is a whole other conversation. But could they have pulled off a lot of the solo songs? To me...they could. I think the major exceptions would be the edgier Mel B songs...and the more serious Mel C songs (which do honestly make up a lot of her discography). The group couldn't pull off, say, Why or Goin Down...though it would be hilarious to see how Victoria would handle herself on stage for the latter.

I guess it depends on what you view as making a Spice Girls song. I don't think genre has to be too specific. I think the song has to have a certain air of positivity...with a strong chorus. That encompasses a lot of the solo material. I just think the songs would have to be grouped into different album eras. A 1999 pop album could contain some of the Schizophonic songs. A Forever r'n'b album could follow to include, say, Never Be The Same Again, Feels So Good, and I Wish. A guitary pop album could follow that...and lead with What Took You So Long.

Quite a few of these songs are already structured like group tracks. Feels So Good, in particular, has little call and response moments (lovin you, lovin you...is the easy part) that different girls could easily slot into. Never Be The Same Again kinda does too. Mel C does the opening verses. Emma does "c'mon c'mon". Mel B does "nothin ventured, nothing gained". I'm sure Mel C would have rather croaked than give that song to the group. But would a Spice Girls track that good featuring Left Eye be a guaranteed number 1? Well, yeah.

Anyway. That's a lot of "what ifs". The reality is that the pop landscape was about to get a lot more crowded in 1999...and their dominance was going to get challenged no matter what their output was. But! It is a little interesting to wonder how many more hits they could have racked up if they had the best of the solo tracks in their arsenal.

Posted by: dromeda 7th January 2023, 07:57 PM

From my point of view they should have ended things decently. Why change styles if they knew the group was breaking up? Here in Brazil there is a saying: Don't mess with a winning team. They had it all, the only thing they were supposed to do was the same old stuff. They should have released a third pop album, two or three singles and played a few shows, a short European tour and done. They should have released Woman as a celebration single, the clip would have shown their entire trajectory. Holler's pop version should be very interesting and would make a great second single. A documentary to wrap things up where they would do an assessment of everything they've achieved, everything about Geri's departure and her importance in the group, backstage of the last tour and of course the official release of the last show. At the end they could oficially take a break and then venture into solos. The fans would have understood and the solos would have received more support. Their legacy would have been much better. There was a lack of intelligence at that time.

The fact is that this lack of intelligence has lasted until today. The 2019 tour should have officially been released on streaming, Netflix.. whatever. We should have a box full of unreleased songs, demos, good remixes and the relaunch of the old shows. But, of course, this would never happen to the best girl group in history, right? I don't think we'll ever get to a full circle.

Posted by: Voodoo 7th January 2023, 09:08 PM

Is there even such a thing in existence?

Posted by: dromeda 7th January 2023, 11:45 PM

The demo used for xmas’s rehearsals. In the documentary you can see them rehearsing Holler's choreography, but without the audio. The version that appeared in 1999 is very pop and quite different from the final version. The type of guitar is different, the beat is cooler. The bass has more presence which makes the music more interesting. And there are some other typical pop elements used, but I can't explain them in detail.

Posted by: Mr.X 8th January 2023, 01:29 AM

What are you talking about?

Posted by: dromeda 8th January 2023, 02:23 AM

Holler's first version from 1999. The one they played at Earls Court. What? Is it not possible to distinguish that version is more pop than the final version?

Posted by: Mr.X 8th January 2023, 03:01 PM

It is not a pop version, it is just a live arrangement of the same song... Doesn't mean it is a pop version?...

Posted by: dromeda 8th January 2023, 10:27 PM

What I'm saying is that the earls court version (studio version) must be different from the final version. Or in 1999 the album version had already been completely finalized? In 1999 weren't they producing a pop album?

Posted by: Mr.X 8th January 2023, 11:10 PM

By that rationale, then the Brits version of Holler would have also been the pop version, and we have it on record that it wasn't. It's the same song, it had been finished before the Christmas in Spice World Tour in 1999.



That isn't that much different from the one below. It's just that the Christmas in Spice World live performance had live arragements which gave other elements to the song. But the song was already done and there was no pop version of Holler that we know of or ever heard of.



They weren't just doing pop in 1999, in fact they had already recorded a lot of Forever by that point, both pop and r'n'b songs, before they went full r'n'b. The main Jerkins sessions had been done by that point, same with Jam & Lewis ones.

Sorry, I just don't think there was ever a pop version of Holler. It has always been an r'n'b song.

Posted by: schizo_spice 9th January 2023, 12:03 AM

I wonder why they even bothered performing Holler at the Brits when they knew it wasn’t going to be released for another 7 months.

Posted by: dromeda 9th January 2023, 02:32 AM

I really messed up the timeline about the events of 1999. Perhaps the fact that they performed woman and RBAY - two pop songs - made me believe that Holler would have been recorded in the same sessions as Pain Proof and other unreleased ones. I always thought that just as RBAT was remade for Forever, so was Holler.

Is there a timeline of recording sessions for the third album? Including the unreleased ones. Who was originally involved?

Posted by: Mr.X 9th January 2023, 10:48 AM

Thats totally fair, don't worry. RBAY did have a pop version but as far as we know, this was the only pop song to be given an r'n'b make over as they didn't have enough r'n'b songs to make up the full album. The main bulk of songs, both pop and r'n'b were recorded in August/September 1999 in London and Sheffield.

I don't have the exact dates at the moment, but other fans will.

The involved producers in 1999 were:

POP
Biff Stannard & Matt Rowe
Elliott Kennedy

R&B
Rodney Jerkins
Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis


I don't think we know of any other potential producers from that time, those were the only ones confirmed.

Then in 2000, Rodney Jerkins took over the whole album including re-mixing RBAY and leading on the recording of more music in Spring 2000 to make up the rest of the album with r&b production, for better or worse.

I wish they had Jam & Lewis take over the record instead though. Rodney was too same-same, even if I love Forever!

Posted by: spiceboy 9th January 2023, 11:31 AM

I always find it funny that Elliot Kennedy said that RBAY (his version) was the best song he had recorded with the girls and that they ruined it when it got altered... he wrote SYBT with them which TOWERS over RBAY in either form...

Posted by: dromeda 9th January 2023, 01:29 PM

Thanks for the info! Particularly preferred that the album had more pop songs produced by the old partners and only a few RnB. Either way, Holler is a classic. One of my favorite songs by them.

Posted by: Mr.X 9th January 2023, 02:19 PM

I think the fan's frustration with the album is exactly from the fact they discarted the pop songs whereas they should have done a pop/r'n'b album at the time, to provide a nice transition.

Yes Holler is totally a Spice classic that continues to age like a fine wine!

Posted by: -Jay- 11th January 2023, 02:47 PM

I’ll always find it a bit weird that they sat on Holler for months!

The Northern Star album era didn’t really become huge until the end of March 2000, after Never Be the Same Again reached #1 - but they performed Holler at the Brits in early March 2000, and obviously at the concerts in December 1999. I’m kind of surprised that Virgin didn’t think around Christmas 99 that the Northern Star album wasn’t really doing overly well and to shift focus onto Spice Girls asap. Enough material had been recorded for a third Spice Girls album by then, Holler was ready to go…

Perhaps Virgin always had a long term plan with the Northern Star era and had big faith in Never Be the Same Again from the start, enough to be confident in holding it back to be the era’s third single. Of course ultimately the continued focus on Northern Star ended up paying off majorly in 2000. They could have easily got cold feet though after two #4 singles and a #10 album though… and they couldn’t have known for sure that the album would grow into achieving huge sales.

Regardless, I’m not sure what was stopping Spice Girls from releasing Holler earlier. They didn’t have to launch the album directly after one single, it could have served as a reintroduction. Performing it at the Brits 7 months in advance of the single release was just odd, although I suppose the fact it wasn’t televised meant that the wider public didn’t hear it. But it’s like, why bother? I think I read somewhere that the purpose of performing it was specifically for the industry people in the audience, but I don’t understand what the point in that was…

Posted by: dromeda 11th January 2023, 04:57 PM

The biggest reason they did Holler's performance on the Brits was to show the public that they had new content on the way. At that time, it was said that without Geri, the others would not be the same. We cannot forget that there was a certain rivalry between Geri and the others, and Geri was present that day. (Although it looks like she left the Brits before the girls performed). So, doing 2 old songs that the public was saturated listening to wouldn't be interesting. Performing new material would be a gift in recognition of the award received, it would shut the mouths of many who said they would not continue as a quartet and, of course, to spark interest in the work to come. Holler was not televised at the time either because the show was too long or because of the grotesque failures that occurred with the microphones and their voices. I also believe there were plans to release Holler soon. The reason it took so long is unknown. Virgin was probably playing cards with Melanie C's solo and preferred to readjust things.


Again, in the meantime they should have released a single/videoclip like The One by BSB - showing the trajectory of their career so far. The song Right Back At Ya would be PERFECT for this.

Posted by: Babyboy 11th January 2023, 09:30 PM

Melanie C said in her bio that Virgin was not sure about a third single from NS.

Posted by: Mr.X 11th January 2023, 09:35 PM

I always said that a late Spring/Summer 2000 release of the pop version of Right Back At Ya would have been PERFECT to start the Forever era and introduce them as a 4-piece in a wider way!

Then do some shows in the summer gearing up to a release of Holler/Let Love Lead The Way in October but with a more colourfull video for Holler (and a better video for LLLTW!), and a much better and colourful album cover.

Get the Right Back At Ya r&b version to be a bside for If You Wanna Have Some Fun for January/February 2021 and then another single (maybe Tell Me Why or Weekend Love) and go on a short Stadium tour in April 2021 and call it a day!

It would have inevitably done much better and we wouldnt all be so bitter!

Posted by: Piers 13th January 2023, 06:16 AM

In terms of Holler being cut from the broadcast, I think the official reason given was trouble with the mics. But in all honesty, three of the girls sound fine to me...but Victoria's struggling. You can hardly blame her. There was that stalker who'd told her he'd be at the show. Holler was already the most challenging song for Victoria that the Spice Girls had recorded to that point. With the added stress of the situation, she was having a tough time. My guess is the Brits team agreed to leave the performance out...as acknowledgement that she'd already been put through hell with the threats. I'm pretty sure Victoria said something in her book about how this was the one night where she truly couldn't sing.

As a side note, the broadcast I've seen also leaves out Victoria's part of Goodbye. I don't know if those lines actually were performed that night...and were also cut...or if they were genuinely just performing a shorter arrangement.

Posted by: dromeda 13th January 2023, 02:44 PM

I've always wondered about that. Perhaps Victoria's part was cut in editing. If you notice some details you will see that in the supposedly cut part their voices are suddenly cut off. Victoria is making a movement with her hand and when the other angle appears, she has her hands down. The choir behind also seems to be moving (dancing).

But confirmation can only come from those who were there. “the most important fans are here”, right? 😂

Posted by: One_For_Sorrow 14th January 2023, 08:47 PM

Reading the past few posts has been really interesting, I never knew any of this. (The stuff about the BRITs and the gap from performance to release.

Posted by: Matttttt 14th January 2023, 10:11 PM

I remembered finding audio of the full performance with Victoria’s part and I did a quick search and here it is:

Posted by: Rebel 15th January 2023, 01:51 AM

Obviously, they weren’t planning to split up when they got back on August 1999 to start working on the third album. They didn’t realize that Mel C’s priorities have shifted until spring 2000 when she started to record on her own time instead joining the girls. They just didn’t have a concrete plan of what to do next and how bad Forever was going to be received by the end of the year. That’s when Mel C and Victoria decided to pull the plug on the group activities.

Honestly, one of reasons that they flopped was that they spent too much time on it and in pop world that’s a mistake. Fans have moved on to Britney, Xtina, BSB and *NSYNC by then. Had they released it by November 1999, the outcome may have been very different. And we might not be blaming on Forever’s change of direction now.

Posted by: Mr.X 15th January 2023, 12:37 PM

At the Brits 2000 (in February that year), the Emma mentioned in this interview that they didn't know when the album was going to be released either so I don't think they had anything planned at all by early 2000s. Maybe they were still waiting for Mel C's solo stuff to finish then, as she was also not quite setting the charts alight back then. There is no way they would have released in Spring 2000 though, if they had not planned by early 2000 to do that, as the group's stuff takes longer to prep for than solo stuff.



They also mention in this interview that them and Geri were going in different paths, and clearly since Geri was doing high camp pop music, they wanted to demark themselves from that, otherwise the press would eat them alive (which they did anyway!).

There are two major events that contributed to the girls not releasing new music in 1999: babies and Mel C's solo album. Glad for Mel that her music took off (for that album at least) but it did absolutely take from the girls. I've never been able to fully love Northern Star precisely because of this.

Posted by: Voodoo 15th January 2023, 04:45 PM

Forever simply wasn't ready for a 1999 release. It has nothing to do with Northern Star. Virgin had no problem to release Mel B's album one month before Forever.

Posted by: Mr.X 15th January 2023, 04:58 PM

It had everything to do with Northern Star too as Mel C was busy focusing on it. Virgin did not want to release Hot before Forever, that was Mel B who insisted on it (and she even admitted it many times!).

Plus, they had enough material ready including the pop songs, by October 1999.

Posted by: spiceboy 15th January 2023, 05:01 PM

I disagree 1999 was simply not viable purely because of Melanie B and Victoria needing to take time off for babies and the album not being ready. Melanie was clearly prepared to juggle both solo and group at this point as she did the Christmas tour and also recorded My strongest suit which she said she thought they should release. In fact Northern Star wouldn't even exist were it not for the two girls getting pregnant in the first place as she wanted to continue with group stuff in 1998. I should thank them really because I rate Northern Star above Spice and Forever in all honesty.

Posted by: Mr.X 15th January 2023, 08:09 PM

The babies were born before the recording for the group's album started in summer 1999. sorry but it was Mel C who didn't want to be a Spice Girl at that stage and wanted to just do the solo work. Whilst she was doing the Chirstmas shows and Brits, etc, she wanted to prioritise her solo stuff and this was mentioned by herself over the years. Not shaming anyone, it is what it is...

I would trade every single solo song or album released by any of them for group music. Even if I think Northern Star, Free Me and Life in Mono are incredible albums. Woudl trade them all for a single new song released by the group lol