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Posted by: Smint 14th January 2022, 10:12 AM

Can't see a recent thread about the Royal Family but thought would start one. Not that I'm a fan but there are a lot of events happening this year related to them. Of course the Prince Andrew allegations, the Queen's Jubilee celebrations this year and her ongoing ill health. Plus the symbolic link to her being alone on her funeral whereas Johnson and his staff partied.

Must admit slightly surprised at the speed of the monarchy stripping Andrew of his royal titles considering he claims that he is innocent of the Virginia Giuffre allegations so it seems they are prejudging the trial. Top marks to Giuffre for wanting to push it through an open court as way too many sexual abuse allegations don't get reported, especially against those in high positions of power.

I'm not a fan of the monarchy and think it's laughably outdated and of course promotes the idea that people are better than others. I'd wager that the majority of people on this forum would agree and this would become more mainstream after the Queen dies, especially as the media aren't going to be sympathetic to Prince Charles. What does everyone else think?

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn 14th January 2022, 11:21 AM

That family of questionable morality, who've now stripped Andrew of his titles went to such great lengths to protect him. They're no better than he is.

Honestly, I hate them and when Charles takes over I would love to see that signalling the start of the monarchy being diminished. Preferably by the end of this decade, if possible.

Posted by: Cdelita 14th January 2022, 11:24 AM

The fawning BBC with actual royal correspondemts - impartiality for when, BBTory?? - just highlights how corrupt our entire system is. Aa long as we have a landed géntry, lords and a royalty, we will never break free from what is essentially feudalism rebranded. Abolish it.

Posted by: Steve201 14th January 2022, 01:57 PM

It’s amazing how the Queen is so fawned over I fear when she goes it’s all to play for. As an Irish Repubican I believe we should all vote for a head of state even if they can sometimes be as bad at least they can be gotten rid of!

Posted by: Ddelita 14th January 2022, 03:16 PM

Whatever the faults of the rest of them I wouldn't say they are "no better" than an actual nonce.

Posted by: Suedehead2 14th January 2022, 03:48 PM

I won't claim credit for this joke but Charles' brother is now to be known as The Andrew Formerly Known As Prince.

Posted by: Ddelita 14th January 2022, 04:28 PM

Not heard that one before, i'm stealing it!

Posted by: Chartfridays 14th January 2022, 04:56 PM

The military were rightly baying for him, if it's a choice been forcing servicemen to potentially toast a peado or hurting your grown up sons pride a bit even if by some miracle he turns out to be innocent, the choice is obvious.

Posted by: dandy* 14th January 2022, 05:07 PM

Genuine question here... what great lengths have the royal family gone to protecting Prince Andrew?

Presumably they haven't immediately cast him aside, like I can't imagine most families doing before knowing more, but they seemed to step him down from pretty much everything the moment it all broke. I haven't personally heard any statements or anything where anyone in the royal family has been protecting him or justifying what he's been accused of doing.

Posted by: Chartfridays 14th January 2022, 10:14 PM

The news of Andrew being a probable sex pest broke ages ago. Royal family have basically left him to hang himself.

Looks like Charles was the driving force behind stripping Andrew of his titles - presumably there's a lot of private anger about this if there's any suspicion he's guilty - finding out your brothers a nonce must be pretty hard on anyone without the world watching

Posted by: Rooney 14th January 2022, 10:33 PM

Like lots of people have already suggested, when The Queen dies I suspect there will be a turning of the Royals in terms of favourability, support etc. - Charles has done a lot more for his image in the last 15-20 years, but he will not be as well liked as The Queen. The Prince Andrew stuff casts a shadow over the whole Royal Family, clearly the guy was way too arrogant he thought he could get away with it. It's awful for the brand full stop when we are likely faced with a transition of power in the next 5 years to Prince Charles.

Posted by: Ddelita 15th January 2022, 12:46 AM

The British people as a whole have a huge level of respect for The Queen. They don't for Prince Charles. I think to a certain degree they do for William and Kate.

Posted by: J00prstar 15th January 2022, 12:49 AM

They wouldn't if a certain press gag order stopped about William's behind closed doors behaviour...

Posted by: Rooney 15th January 2022, 12:55 AM

Don't think that is true, if it's about the alleged affair, that's not a gagging order, that's lawyers saying they will press libel charges unless they have proof (which they obviously don't).

Posted by: Smint 15th January 2022, 01:03 AM

I quite like Charles because despite his faults and eccentricities, he’s green and seen as woke. He won’t play to the right wing media’s nonsense a lot of the time. And if he does the institution damage by that then good on him.

Posted by: cider man 15th January 2022, 10:02 AM

He's also rumoured to be very troubled still about his mother's death, with a very bad temper and shouts a lot.

Posted by: Chartfridays 15th January 2022, 02:01 PM

Man who lost mum as a child doesn't grow up to be perfect. Hardly story of the century.

Losing parents as an adult can be damaging enough for most people.

Posted by: cider man 15th January 2022, 10:29 PM

From Mail On Sunday. Harry to sue Government.


Give me back my bodyguards: Prince Harry threatens legal action against the UK Government and demands return of taxpayer-funded security two years after Megxit drama began.

Lawyers acting for Harry, who stepped down from Royal duties two years ago, wrote 'pre-action protocol' letter to Home Office, indicating they'll seek judicial review if continued security isn't provided by UK.
If the case proceeds, it will lead to a battle in the High Court between Ministers and Prince Harry.
Queen is understood to have been made aware of her grandson's action, which is thought to be first time a member of Royal Family has brought a case against Her Majesty's Government.
Harry's decision to instruct his lawyers, Schillings, to threaten legal action against Government could inflame tensions with his family.
It also a further headache for Queen only days after she stripped Prince Andrew of his military honours and charity patronages after US judge ruled that a claim of sex abuse made against him – and vehemently denied – would proceed.

Posted by: Suedehead2 15th January 2022, 10:49 PM

He chose to quit his "duties" as a Windsor. What makes him think he should have the benefits that went with those "duties"? Perhaps the Queen will demand evidence that he really is her grandson.

Posted by: Chartfridays 16th January 2022, 01:18 AM

He's asking for the right to.pay for it himself though. Whilst this is clearly a consequence of his own making, it seems a bit daft he can't pay for police protection - given he's still a royal family member it's going to be tough for him to.privately mount a operation capbale of protecting him


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60012238

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th January 2022, 07:48 PM

Andrew going for a high risk strategy of demanding a jury trial!!!

Posted by: Smint 24th March 2022, 12:11 AM

William and Kate's tour of Jamaica going well then - in fact the opposite of what they had intended. Following cancellation of a Belize tour due to Village protests and of course Barbados becoming a Republic last year. It's almost as if people (and who knows what will happen in the UK once the Queen passes away) are waking up to this nonsense - plus the issue of colonialism is being raised.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/23/jamaicas-pm-tells-kate-and-william-his-country-is-moving-on

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th March 2022, 01:45 AM

Barbados likely to be the first in a line of dominoes then. Definitely once the Queen passes.

Pretty predictable too.

Posted by: Smint 28th March 2022, 12:04 AM

William seems to be doing the right thing saying that it is entirely up to the nations what they want to do but yes it's just inevitable. It's funny though that despite leaving the EU and becoming this GLOBAL BRITAIN powerhouse allegedly we will be more isolated and friendless than ever.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 28th March 2022, 08:56 AM

Yes, it's almost as if throwing out British citizens from the old Empire and deterring foreigners from coming to your country and slagging off your allies and suggesting you can strike better deals despite being weaker outside a trading block (with weaker countries) in some bizarre way might give the impression that the old British Empire "we're better than those pesky foreigners ruining everything" to the rest of the world, not least when it's obvious the leaders of the movement are liars and charlatans that can't be trusted. The Royal family are finding their part in the politics of isolation is unavoidable as flag-wavers abroad, and the look of members of the Royal family accusing them of having the same sniffy attitude inside closed doors is not a good one to have either.

Who could have guessed.....

Posted by: cider man 15th April 2022, 07:03 AM

So Harry and Meghan stopped off here on their way to The Hague and the Invictus games to visit The Queen and see Charles. This has prompted speculation that she's more ill than has been reported and she won't attend Easter mass.

Hope she makes her Jubilee in June.

Posted by: Steve201 15th April 2022, 01:46 PM

So do I I want a four day weekend!

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 16th April 2022, 02:42 AM

I'm actually dreading it happening. As much as I hate the Royals as a concept, I don't have anything against the Queen as a person - I mean, I don't know her. But it'll be wall-to-wall coverage for months and we won't hear the end of it.

Posted by: Steve201 16th April 2022, 08:07 AM

Same here!

How long do you get off work when it does happen? In 1952 apparently people were allowed to just leave work when it was announced to mourn!

Posted by: cider man 17th April 2022, 04:22 PM

It's thought people may take the day off if she goes in the night and it's announced at 8am.or leave early if it's announced later in the day. Schools may be half day too but back next day. Official Bank Holiday is funeral day only and days of Charles' Coronaton.

Posted by: Rooney 8th September 2022, 11:58 AM

Sounds like the Queen might be on the way out- not looking good with my experiences with these things.

Posted by: Mack. 8th September 2022, 12:07 PM

Complaints on social media about the Beeb interrupting Bargain Hunt to break this news about The Queen.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 8th September 2022, 12:09 PM

Only one day is really fast work, godspeed Truss you anti-monarchist praxis expert

Posted by: Rooney 8th September 2022, 12:12 PM

Going to be way worse when she passes. Looks like the end of the road is happening very shortly.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 8th September 2022, 12:13 PM

Yeah this does feel like a matter of hours in the way it's been presented, all joking aside.

will overshadow Truss' energy announcement hugely as well HA! (that piece of shite deserves it, commentary to follow later in the appropriate thread)

Posted by: Rooney 8th September 2022, 12:28 PM

Very mellow mood, but yeah completely changes the headlines for a few weeks. Plus for the conspiracy theorists out there, there’s a great one here.

As much as I am not looking forward to the mass hysteria and unknown (I could really do without another 2-3 bank holidays from a work perspective..!) she has been an amazing servant and clearly this will be another rocky economic challenge for us as well.

Posted by: Jessie Where 8th September 2022, 12:32 PM

Rumours have been circulating for a while that her illness is actually bone cancer, not a pleasant thing for anyone to be going through if so.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 8th September 2022, 12:52 PM

Ooh London rumours?? Makes sense you would hear of those rumoues doon there then with people working in the palace.

Seeing how frail she was and the wording of her being, "comfortable", there can only be one result...

If she has bone cancer, that explains her rapidly going downhill recently, and why she hasn't reached the same age as her Queen Mo or Phillip.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 8th September 2022, 12:53 PM

!!!

Also, why would the palace keep bone cancer, or anything like that, secret? Surely it would be better to gradually prepare people, AND potentially extend her life/ reign by having Peince Charles understandably fulfil ALL royal duties!

Posted by: Houdini 8th September 2022, 01:00 PM

I hope the Queen recovers but if she does pass away the timing of this would be mental! That picture of Liz Truss shaking her hand would become historic, I've seen some comments about there being "only one Liz" in a reference to Highlander.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 8th September 2022, 01:19 PM

Meghan on the way too!! Must be really serious. Not looking forward ro the announcement

Posted by: TheSnake 8th September 2022, 01:36 PM

Hopefully not, I am hoping this situation with the doctors and relatives is overcaution and she gets better.

Posted by: Mack. 8th September 2022, 02:34 PM

She looked very frail in the pics speaking to Truss the other day.

Posted by: Mack. 8th September 2022, 02:38 PM

So if 7 members of the Royal Family are still travelling, I doubt we'll hear much more until later tonight.

Posted by: Suedehead2 8th September 2022, 02:47 PM

If she has had cancer, she has a right to keep it private if she wishes. I can’t help feeling she’s been desperately holding on to make sure Johnson wasn’t the one to address the nation and oversee the funeral. I assume the details of what they are expected to do has worked its way to near the top of an incoming PM’s initial briefing in recent years.

Posted by: dandy* 8th September 2022, 02:50 PM

Poor thing, being forced to see Boris and Liz T when she’s in this sort of condition.

I’ll be really sad if indeed this is the final few days for her, with everyone descending and the statement then it does feel like it perhaps is. She’s the only member of the royal family that I feel any sort of admiration for.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 8th September 2022, 02:58 PM

Wearing black on bbc :/ May have already happened.

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 8th September 2022, 03:12 PM

There was a deleted tweet of the announcement of her death from a BBC spokesperson . How sad.

Posted by: Severin 8th September 2022, 03:26 PM

If I recall correctly the official announcement will be when a noticeboard is placed outside the Queen's residence, giving the details. She may wish to break that tradition but that was the established manner

Posted by: Silas 8th September 2022, 04:19 PM

Really believe this is a when not if situation. Sounds remarkably more serious than at other times and of course the travel of all the family up to Aberdeenshire is quite the giveaway. After all, no one would voluntarily travel to Aberdeen

Posted by: Suedehead2 8th September 2022, 04:21 PM

The Aberdeen accent is lovely. No idea about the place itself.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 8th September 2022, 04:28 PM

And BBC News has changed from red to black.

It's a shame she didn't reach 100, or the same age as Queen's Mother. Unfortunately we will now have kings till, probably, th3 sbolition of the monarchy.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 8th September 2022, 04:28 PM

!!!!

I'vr never been, buy I thought there was loads of greenery and loads of money there.

Posted by: Chez Wombat 8th September 2022, 04:52 PM

Talk about ending on a low if her last meeting was yesterday! (sorry sorry, too soon x)

This has felt sadly inevitable for most of the year now, what with Covid and Phillip's death, this must have been a very hard couple of years for her :'(

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 8th September 2022, 05:09 PM

Covid seems to have taken a heavy toll as does Phillip's death, you're right. I was hoping a year or two in Scotland, away from Lonson, would have helped. Then again, she had the huge Jubilee celwbrations too, which must have been tiring.

Posted by: T Boy 8th September 2022, 05:12 PM

I’m no royalist by any means but the Queen has always had a strong sense of duty and I imagine she wouldn’t be too happy to be leaving the country in the state that it is. So much so that it’s a shame now seems to be the time.

Posted by: Steve201 8th September 2022, 05:17 PM

As others have said I oppose the monarchy but feel for her as a person.

With the family coming to be together she must be in her final days I would say.

I am always fascinated by how long her life has been and how much history she has travelled through. I mean Churchill was her first PM and he was born in 1874, shows how long back some people alive can go!

Posted by: Rooney 8th September 2022, 05:27 PM

There are lots of rumours about there, but I really do wonder if yesterday was such an exhaustive day on her both mentally and physically that her body just caved in and could not cope. I think people forget she is 96 years old - I know she feels a sense of duty as the head of state, but it must have been such an exhausting day.

Agree this feels very much like a when not an if. There are rumours she has passed and they are waiting for Harry to arrive, but not sure that is the case. I could envision a scenario where they keep it under wraps if it happens later this evening/early morning and announce it first thing.

Posted by: Houdini 8th September 2022, 05:31 PM

What was it that The Queen did yesterday?

Posted by: Mack. 8th September 2022, 05:33 PM

RIP Your Majesty.

Posted by: Suedehead2 8th September 2022, 05:33 PM

Liz Truss was once a republican. She has been PM for a couple days and...

Posted by: spiceboy 8th September 2022, 06:01 PM

RIP royalist or not nobody can deny that she dedicated her life to “duty” right up to the end.

Posted by: Jessie Where 9th September 2022, 03:18 AM

I'm far from being a royalist, I find the whole institution horrendous but I don't have anything against the Queen as a person and the fact is an elderly woman passed away in a really quite painful way, and she has been an essential part of our culture and heritage.

Some of the stuff I'm seeing people posting is really quite sickening, especially because it's gonna be really quite raw for a lot of people right now.

I'm really interested to see if this is the turning point where the public perception of the Monarchy cracks and becomes less romanticised and lauded.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 9th September 2022, 03:57 AM

Thanks for posting this here because I don't feel like enraging those who don't wish to participate in debates about it in the Lounge thread.

I did have things against her. She was broadly a benevolent person from her public image and better than many contemporaries would be, probably better than I expect Charles to be, but certainly had moments that would rival any of the evil billionaires like Bezos and Musk throughout her life. (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/07/revealed-queen-lobbied-for-change-in-law-to-hide-her-private-wealth)

It really is quite insane of us as a country that people are genuinely feeling down, are talking about days of national mourning (no healthy society stops for days to mourn anyone) and even wish to continue the monarchy. Joking about it is fine, unlike most celebrities she represented an institution, not so much a person really. Absolutely I encourage lack of deference to traditions and institutions, which is what jokes about her death represent.

At its core, she was a very rich landowner with power over us, and her successor will be a rich landowner with power over us (if not de facto political power, she certainly had perceptive power and soft power). She was also the head of state for so much of our colonial legacy and her passing severes a link to the past with that. Which will be good for us in the long run, you can trace a direct line from the Britain of 1952 being so powerful across the world to our ineffectual exceptionalism of the 2010s (Brexit etc).

I think we definitely might see a quick decline in approval of the monarchy once her passing is dealt with, and exacerbating that with excessive coverage is certainly one way to do that.

Posted by: Jessie Where 9th September 2022, 04:06 AM

Also, there is the underlying fact that she never once acknowledged being gay is even a thing, let alone a good thing. That is one big grievance I've always had against her.

Posted by: -Jay- 9th September 2022, 07:49 AM

Although it’s few and far between…

(In 2003, she vowed to increase) "equality and social justice by bringing forward legislation on the registration of civil partnerships between same sex couples."

In 2013 she also gave royal assent to the Marriage Bill.

And 2017: “My government will make further progress to tackle the gender pay gap and discrimination against people on the basis of their race, faith, gender, disability, or sexual orientation”

Her saying “sexual orientation” in terms of the tackling discrimination is surely an acknowledgement, even if she never explicitly expressed support. I think it would be fair to say that the Queen was impartial on so many issues though.

Posted by: Rooney 9th September 2022, 08:26 AM

I think this idea that we as a nation are going to hurdle towards Republicanism is misguided. That is not to say that it won't happen in the future, but I would doubt it would happen in most of our lifetimes. As much as people dislike the Monarchy and the elitism, if you replace that with a Republican you're just shovelling shit down a different hole - the idea than someone other than the elite, powerful and rich would be president is a pipe dream imo.

Posted by: J00prstar 9th September 2022, 10:07 AM

Wow, surprised a little at the spiciness of that take, Iz!

I'm just watching from the sidelines. The English psyche is fascinating in moments like this, in terms of respect etc.

I'm reminded of the saying about respect - whether it means deference or treating someone like an equal.
If I had met the queen, I would certainly have treated her respectfully, kindly and politely, but I would not have bowed and scraped or believed that she was better than me.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 9th September 2022, 10:17 AM

It's in part a reaction to the ceaseless, suffocating deference that I don't miss being physically around, and in part hanging around leftist and non-traditional communities.

I agree, I would of course have been respectful and polite had I ever met her, as I imagine rival world leaders would do. But most certainly not deferential.

I can't help myself really, there's something that seems so fundamentally wrong to me about demanding respect towards someone because they're a 'better'. Plus the whole 'don't speak ill of the dead' thing that I routinely rail against whenever the dead figure is a political or public one because at that point it's nonsense designed to tell people to shut up and 'be civil, know your place, we won't stand for any of this talk about changing the system'.

And that point about the British psyche is well-made, it has so many numerous issues, particularly with issues like this that involve the old nobility, the disco citizens as it were, that I hope we can break out from. We can't be an equal society until that hierarchy is flattened, and so much of our current political problems stem from that not happening and indeed the politicians working to make the hierarchy more rigid.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 9th September 2022, 10:35 AM

A ceremonial Head Of State with a deliberately long election term works in several European countries - the ideal would be a well-respected public figure or academic approaching retirement, who runs as an independent or lightly associated political figure and does the rubber stamping. Ireland and Germany's systems are great examples. You get to save on the pomp and circumstance, you get to ignore the 'born to rule' problem, the HoS still acts as an uncontroversial ideal to work towards with little division, and short a revolution, the royal family personally will still be very rich people who own a lot of land.

also we need to take gentleman's agreements out of politics as a rule, codify them with standards and rules for political figures (like, say, a constitution!). The Royal Family's existence within our politics is a huge mess of gentleman's agreements right now. Would Charles ever act out of turn? I doubt it, but that our system allows for it is wrong.

Posted by: blacksquare 9th September 2022, 10:37 AM

Absolutely agree with everything Izzy has said. I have found it difficult to voice my thoughts online and offline due to the 'respect' (essentially a blanket statement used for anything that isn't absolute adoration) expected — despite the Queen and the monarchy being controversial figures.

I don't think we are heading towards Republicanism right now. In our lifetime? It doesn't seem out of the question. I do feel like the last decade has proven that things can change massively and quickly. We'll just have to see how popular Charles is and which direction we head in politically as a democracy over the next few decades.

Posted by: Smint 9th September 2022, 11:23 AM

I think that we can't rule out anything in these uncertain times - Brexit, Trump, covid, Russia/Ukraine and not to mention the likely break up of the UK. Especially since with climate destruction, the concept of having a royal family will become less and less relevant.

Although the concept of a Royal family is something I disagree with in theory, as Rooney says the wealthy and powerful will always rule the roost. At least the Royal Family have some semblance of standards to abide to unlike the likes of Johnson, Truss and are disgusting over powerful media.

I think that Charles as King will be interesting - he has made some idiotic controversial statements but does seem to be correct on many issues - including the environment and he let his feelings known about the Rwanda scheme. I can see a massive clash between him and the Tory establishment very soon.

Posted by: Silas 9th September 2022, 11:26 AM

Also with Iz on this. Couldn’t really give less of a shit if I tried. I’m not a republican or a royalist, I’m generally ambivalent about it but I am so glad to be out of the country right now. I really can’t stand this performative shite. Like it’s sad and a major event in global history (but as a millennial already had more than enough of those thanks) but it doesn’t really impact me directly, she’s not my gran. I didn’t know her. She’s just part of the wild state structure we have from being part of a near 1500 year old monarchy and all the absolute insanity and pomp and circumstance and weird BS that comes with that.

People cancelling holidays…like get a grip of yourself

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 9th September 2022, 11:33 AM

Yeah agreed with Iz, Silas etc. here - was very hesitant to post my opinion because I know how it can be perceived as insensitive, and whilst I am certainly not celebrating her death by any means - I simply do not care, sorry. She didn't have any impact on my life and I agree that there is a whole lot of performative takes on Social Media right now, sharing the most inane drivel as if it actually means anything and these people are the same who don't speak up for important issues such as BLM, Trans issues, Cost of living etc. but yes, a 96 year old woman dying is the issue to feel strongly about.

Posted by: Rooney 9th September 2022, 11:35 AM

Just don't see it. There is no appettie for it in the United Kingdom (heck, look at Scotland's view on if they went indepenent as a country too) and it would take a lot of time for it to grow. Not to say it is out of the question, but even the other head's of state that Iz has suggested, they are still wealthy, educated and privelidged people, it's just less in your face. I think people often forget the Queen was not that popular in the 90s, I'm sure Charles won't be popular as the Queen, but I also feel that experiences the Firm may have got wrong with Charles, they may have got right with William.

Posted by: J00prstar 9th September 2022, 12:49 PM

Although William also shat the bed with the whole cheating thing

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 9th September 2022, 01:59 PM

Eh??

Posted by: Ansel 9th September 2022, 03:15 PM

I agree with what's been said more eloquently before me – personally I feel quite detached from what appears to be the nation's general mood at the moment. Of course I have sympathy for people who do feel grief at the moment but I'm not going to mourn or put my life on hold for someone I never met. Also I wonder when we'll ever be allowed to call out the Queen's role in Britain's colonial legacy – are we now expected to be "respectful" to her forever?
To borrow the words of one of my friends, it is actually a privilege to be able to mourn the Queen's passing. For so many people around the world and even in the UK, she was the figurehead for a regime that caused immense irreversible damage to its colonies and then stood by as they struggled, and if anything should be mourned it is that. I don't want to police how anyone feels, but due to the wall-to-wall coverage of the Queen's death, important issues like the cost of living crisis and the murder of Chris Kaba are being totally and unjustly ignored. That – and the vast amounts of money we're about to spend on a funeral, a coronation, changing things from "queen" to "king", all in the middle of an economic crisis – just doesn't sit right with me.

Regarding republicanism - I do think there's an appetite. Whether or not it will actually happen is a different question, but I've seen a lot of pro-republic stuff on social media over the past day. Echo chambers are a thing obviously so I'm not gonna pretend that represents everyone my age, but I can see support growing as younger generations grow up without Elizabeth as that symbol that has held the monarchy together. By the time people born in 2022 make up the government, who knows?

Posted by: Suedehead2 9th September 2022, 04:31 PM

I've been a republican since I was about eleven but in the fifty years since then support for republicanism has remained at around 15% with the occasional increase or decrease.

In recent years at least, I think the Queen herself has been a factor in the relatively low support for abolishing the monarchy. Charles is unlikely ever to be anywhere near as popular. It was interesting to note the mood in school today. It's only one school (and in Brighton & Hove) but it didn't feel any different from a normal Friday. There was a tribute to the late Queen in form time (which was largely treated with respect) followed by a minute's silence (dutifully observed) but, beyond that, the general attitude seemed to be simple indifference.

Posted by: Chez Wombat 9th September 2022, 05:11 PM

^Mine was similar, I barely heard a lot mention it actually outside of the standard all-staff email!

I'm honestly more interested to see what happens now. It feels like a very big turning point in history. The Queen seemed the one figure keeping the view of the monarchy (and in some places, the commonwealth) together, Charles will certainly be nowhere near as popular and indeed, he's outspoken and made his stance clear on many issues that the Queen never even breached, he'll be very divisive both here and worldwide (the elite in the US would hate him!) and I think dissent for the system will grow, there have been echoes of this outside of the UK from the commonwealth already.

In terms of how I feel, the only thing I'm sad about is she did seem the one person in the world even that everyone could agree was a respectable figure despite views on the monarchy, now that's gone, it will give way to more division which is always just nasty. Otherwise, it's how I'd feel towards any 95-year-old woman I didn't know dying - it's sad, I'm sorry for her family, but it doesn't affect me much, as much as I can acknowledge that she was a big part of British culture.

Posted by: Envoirment 9th September 2022, 05:19 PM

I'm in the same boat as a number of you on here. It's sad that she's died in the sense that she's someone's mum/grandma/great grandma and a big historical figure. But she's had no meaningful impact on my life, so I'm quite indifferent to it all. I'm not a fan of the royal family in general or the concept of it. So in one way I'm hoping this will mark the beginning of the end for the Royal family. I don't see the likes of Charles or even William being as popular and I feel more recent generations aren't as royalist as previous. So in the coming decades support for the monarchy is likely to decrease.

Posted by: spiceboy 9th September 2022, 06:12 PM

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and respect those who are anti-royalist or who feel indifferent to the queen passing and I am not one of those who thinks that they should no express the fact it does not affect them or their lives. However I think the jokes and memes being made is just nasty and if you are the kind of person who thinks it’s ok to spew hatred and joke about the death of someone it says more about you as a person tbh. Like thatcher I could not stand the woman and I certainly wasn’t paying tribute to her but I wasn’t one of those downloading the wizard of oz song either, again says more about those that did. My reasoning for not include having a bit of humanity and also acknowledging despite my dislike of a person they are someone’s family and someone’s friend who is currently grieving. Another example is Trump I despise the man and will not be sorry at all when he passes but again a bit of decorum.

I do however absolutely hate those who post looking down on others for feeling sadness or grief saying how she wasn’t their family etc but yet grieved for Caroline Flack and posted “be kind.” And yes I am aware that Caroline’s death was far more tragic but the same can be applied to countless other celebs people grieve for publicly.

Posted by: T Boy 9th September 2022, 06:32 PM

Iz, Silas, Blcksquare, Jack, Jupiter, anyone I’m forgetting: SAY. It’s refreshing to know I’m not the only one who isn’t deeply affected with the news and enamoured with the Queen.

I don’t know why people seem to be mentioning bad taste jokes and memes. Literally no one has posted any here and the tone has been incredibly respectful.

Posted by: T Boy 9th September 2022, 06:32 PM

Iz, Silas, Blcksquare, Jack, Jupiter, anyone I’m forgetting: SAY. It’s refreshing to know I’m not the only one who isn’t deeply affected with the news and enamoured with the Queen.

I don’t know why people seem to be mentioning bad taste jokes and memes. Literally no one has posted any here and the tone has been incredibly respectful.

Posted by: Liаm 9th September 2022, 06:38 PM

When someone like Margaret Thatcher who caused misery for millions, I absolutely will not take the high road and "respect" them, call me lowbrow for it, whatever I think it says more about people who would rather excuse such behaviour and pretend to respect them because they died personally.

As for the rest of the thread, it is interesting to think about how republicanism might rise or be more prominent with the queen gone, I think our generation has already been so affected by the queen and obviously her death now that I don't think that will diminish even in our lifetime, although Charles is less popular he's not unpopular so I don't think the massive royal sentiment in the country will dampen anytime even remotely soon.

Posted by: spiceboy 9th September 2022, 06:39 PM

I mean this discussion isn’t limited to purely this thread there is a world outside of Buzzjack too…

Posted by: T Boy 9th September 2022, 06:43 PM

I mean thanks for the thoroughly expected condescending comment from you as per usual. But I’m not sure why you’d want to sully respectful threads like this by drawing attention to something you’re disgusted with. I’ve been working all day so I haven’t checked too many of my feeds but if I saw anything I disagreed with, I’d probably just shrug it off.

Posted by: spiceboy 9th September 2022, 06:58 PM

Sorry I thought this was a general discussion about people’s feelings and reactions, mine was a comment on reactions I have seen. Plus either in this thread or the other one there was actually a post with a link to several unkind comments on social media with a question of views on it.

Also rich from you calling me condescending when you started by posting “you do you” in the other thread and then low key calling me out with “I don’t know why people seem to be mentioning…” when clearly it was just at me. Clearly it’s only ok to post a view if it fits the views of the majority on here.

Why don’t you just block me you clearly hate my posts and never miss a chance to call me out directly or indirectly.

Posted by: T Boy 9th September 2022, 07:11 PM

It actually wasn’t only you that brought it up so it wasn’t just aimed at you. It actually wasn’t necessarily aimed at anyone, it was just a general thought. I was generally impressed with the tone last night despite not being affected by the news at all really because it was Buzzjack showing how respectful it can be. Of course, this is a discussion thread so discuss away but I also have the right to air my thoughts which I did quite respectfully.

As for the other thread, I just disagreed with you, that’s all. It was me speaking my view that may not fit with the majority whilst also acknowledging how other people might feel.

I absolutely nothing your posts if you must know. It’s seems the problem is more yours then mine so I’m not sure why you don’t just take your own advice and block me. Either way, this isn’t the arena for that kind of discussion so if you wish to continue this, drop me a pm because I’m bowing out and not clogging up this thread.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 9th September 2022, 10:55 PM

I'm heartened to see that our very own blacksquare has decided to change their avi to a black square in solemn respectful mourning of our dearly departed ex-monarch Liz, and in solidarity with everyone's political hero/inspiration Sir Keir... however, due to my technical incompetence I shall not be doing the same, and so you are stuck with an image of Jessie Ware.

But seriously- I was surprisingly actually a little upset when I heard the news yesterday, I'm not too sure why really, I'm definitely not a monarchist and have never been that interested in the Royal Family (just the Royle Family..!). I think it's likely because I lost my grandmother earlier this year, and she was big fan of the Queen and the Royal Family. I should say that she emigrated from Austria to the UK around the time of Liz's coronation and developed a strong sense of connection through that significant moment, as was apparent from the letters she wrote to my grandfather at the time which were read out at the funeral

It is obviously a massive historical moment and due to her perceived immense stature this could precipitate the events that eventually cause the seismic shift in public opinion on the monarchy. Whenever I tried to argue with supporters about the absurdness of the monarchy, she was often the first defence reached for, and often quite effectively deployed because she was able to bring the nation together like few others.

That said, I do find some of the coverage (well, most of it really) a bit cloying- shutting up Parliament for example so that they can all share trite remarks, meaningless platitudes and weak af anecdotes, while so many issues in our society (collapse of the NHS, cost-of-living crisis etc.) rage on. I don't have any problem at all with people feeling and wanting to show their sadness, I'm not a monster- but I don't like the tone from certain ppl (Piers Morgan's son for one, Spencer?) and anyone attacking those who really don't care.. it's not up to anyone else to tell you how to feel or react, why should it be? It's also quite bizarre to see all these companies changing their logos to black and making bland PR statements, as well as those indsutries and ppl trying to compete with each other for who can demonstrate the most grief, leading to loads of sporting and social events being cancelled this weekend. Some unintended consequences of this being the Hackey Market cancellation leading to potentially masses of food waste.. and uncertainty for small businesses already struggling.

Posted by: Mack. 9th September 2022, 11:36 PM

Wall to wall coverage til Sunday on BBC One...

Have The Royal Family ever spoke about BLM, cost of living crisis?? No.

It was a complete normal day today where I was.

Posted by: J00prstar 9th September 2022, 11:55 PM

They are acting like she was blown up in her prime instead of that a very old and sick lady passed away over the age of 95.

Posted by: כן 10th September 2022, 04:14 PM

I’m wondering what’s even being “discussed” in media all these days. How everyone is sad and should abandon all their responsibilities and plans to grief for an old woman they have never met before for the next few months? I strongly doubt there’s any discussion about how monarchy in the country was held by one woman alone all these years. That says it all that monarchy in general is primarily associated with the queen and pretty much her alone, specifically in the rest of the world. So does the UK actually need monarchy or just Elizabeth?

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 10th September 2022, 04:25 PM

I say we just needed Elizabeth tbh. She wss very popular, cutring across all demographics. I can't see it lasting without her. I think, due to people eanting to be edgy on Twitter with mrmrs snd jokes, peoplr overlook what is happening here: history. The wall-to-wall coversge, whilst cloying, is us living history. They are sssuming nstional grief, and that is fine. They assumed the dsme for Phillip, and overshot the boat by a long way, but I did not feel sad because the medis told me to, and ehat thr mrdia is doing here is showing respect. Given that the Queen's populariy was typically brtween 80-90%!, with the monarchy enjoying around a 75% approval/ support rating with the public, the media is well within its right to sssume signifcant public and HISTORICAL imterest to provide us with coversge. If people aren't interested, netflix, satellite and freeview channels, internet, etc. But for me, this is history, which is of interest whether you agree with the monarchy, or do not.

Posted by: Mack. 10th September 2022, 04:35 PM

Do we need the Duke of York??

Posted by: T Boy 10th September 2022, 05:16 PM

We absolutely do not need a Monarchy. I’d argue we didn’t really need Elizabeth but she did set the example.

Posted by: Jessie Where 10th September 2022, 05:54 PM

No, we REALLY do not. A waste of space in every possible aspect.

Posted by: Steve201 10th September 2022, 07:07 PM

I can’t see England become a republic ever unless the monarch tried to take power off parliament then there would be a civil war again. Even looking back to the French Revolution the English ruling classes symbolised the stand against republic governments and that where the modern political system and parties developed from - conservatives and Christian democrat parties were the party that opposed the French Revolution and radicals went to the other side.

As for republicans governments - well I’m Irish so of course I’m a republican. Misrule from the Uk is what created the Republic of Ireland as a nation.

And I do think presidential republics are far better ways to run government. To try and say they are all ‘just the elites’ is wrong. You may as well say all democracies are that way(some of them are)! Michael D Higgins was in the Labour Party and quite left wing if you see some of his dail speeches over the years and Martin McGuinnes stood for president too and he was born in a terraced house in one of the poorest cities in Ireland.

Posted by: Mack. 11th September 2022, 01:48 AM

Funeral confirmed for Monday 19th.

Posted by: Jessie Where 12th September 2022, 08:00 PM

Somebody shouted "you're a sick old man" at Prince Andrew today, they were arrested for it.

Maybe they have a family member who can pay £12million to make it go away.

Posted by: Chez Wombat 12th September 2022, 08:14 PM

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkg35b/queen-protesters-arrested?utm_source=reddit.com

Freedom of speech for all!...Except when you show disdain towards this rich family of inherited wealth you don't know, then FOR SHAME

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 12th September 2022, 08:32 PM

That's ... not a good look, and shows how corrupt the entire rotten establishment is in the UK (as we alreasy saw with even the charts manipulating the Sex Pistols' sales, and having police chase them down the Thames in motorboats!!!).

Posted by: Daan 12th September 2022, 09:23 PM

yikes we're not any better than Russia now you can get arrested for holding a blank sign. shameful.

Posted by: Rooney 12th September 2022, 09:31 PM

It's pretty mad - and while I support the free speech element, holding a sign with "f*** imperialism and destroy the monarchy" just seems a bit too much? I don't support them being arrested, but I think there is a time and a place. The current monarchy had zero to do with imperialism, just my opinion and I am sure if any new country was setting up soveringty they would establish a Republic system rather than a monarchy, I just can't help but feel the battle against the monarchy is the wrong battle to be facing. They wield little power and I get the arguments about opening up the palaces etc. would bring money to the economy, but just all feels like the wrong battle for a family whose power is symbolic and influential rather than real.

Posted by: Mack. 12th September 2022, 11:42 PM

What happened to freedom of speech?

Posted by: כן 13th September 2022, 08:45 AM

Freedom of speech is an elusive utopian concept that never existed in its pure form so this does not surprise me at all.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 13th September 2022, 08:58 AM

That'll be the Policing Bill coming into effect, which needs to be repealed as soon as these Tory authoritarians are out of office. They have the freedom to decide anyone is 'disturbing the peace', a sign saying 'f**k' ain't it, nor is this other story about a guy who shouted 'Who elected him?'.

This is exactly the time and the place to debate our system, it's not like any other funeral, indeed it's a STATE funeral, so it involves all of us. It must be able to be protested.

Posted by: awardinary 13th September 2022, 09:52 AM

One thing I can’t get my head around is why Camilla is known as Queen Consort but when Philip was alive he was only referred to as a prince? Was the last king’s spouse also referred to as Queen consort?

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 13th September 2022, 12:40 PM

Phillip turned it down.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 13th September 2022, 02:12 PM

Spouses of a male monarch have always been ‘Queen’ or ‘Queen Consort’ to distinguish them from a Queen Regnant, who Elizabeth was.

because monarchy is a stupid outdated male-dominant idea any ‘King’ is presumed to outrank a ‘Queen’ so spouses of Queens Regnant have traditionally taken or kept the Prince title they already had if they’re not ruling in their own right.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 13th September 2022, 03:02 PM

Yup, they can be prince regent, since Victoria, but like Philli,p kost just stick to prince.

Posted by: T Boy 13th September 2022, 05:19 PM

Too much? Ok then.

Now is the perfect time to discuss whether a monarchy is beneficial or not. Strike whilst the iron is hot. It’s bizarre that we have a family born into privilege even if they don’t have any power. It’s actually a REALLY weird concept and it feels like only now are people starting to properly question it and realise just how strange it all is. It’s absolutely backwards. No one is worried about their ‘power’, everyone knows they don’t have any. It’s the blatant unfairness of life that they represent. It totally is a battle we should be facing, particularly when our fiendish government use this family as a constant shield and claiming all of their horrendous actions are ‘patriotic’.

Posted by: Steve201 13th September 2022, 05:27 PM

Here here

Anyone who thinks the royals don’t have any influence on their weekly ‘chats’ with the PM is living in cloud cuckoo land!

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 13th September 2022, 05:27 PM

Bike racks and Centre Parks closing, people getting arrested for dsring to protest peacefully... There's showing respect, and then there's, well, this.

Posted by: T Boy 13th September 2022, 05:32 PM

Centre Parks closing is absolutely disgusting. Telling people they have to f*** off for 24 hours in the middle of a holiday? The Queen wouldn’t have wanted that.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 13th September 2022, 05:41 PM

She also wouldn't have wanted people recording her coffin on their phones, clapping and cheering as she went past, and shouting, the Queen is dead! Long live the king! It's becoming an absolute circus, with a distinct lack of respect and common sense.

Posted by: Suedehead2 13th September 2022, 06:56 PM

The Center Parks decision is barmy. Where are people supposed to go?

Posted by: Popchartfreak 13th September 2022, 06:56 PM

well obv aimed at my friend here, so... No, you get a grip. WTAF that you think you have a right to tell other people what to believe or feel or do. If you feel that strongly about everyone doing what you want feel free to run for office and see how you do. I'm not a Monarchist, I'm fairly ambivalent, but from what Ive seen online elsewhere at the shitshow of comments followjng the death of the Queen, the complete lack of self-awareness from people who think that this is an opportunity to try and bring down an institution that has just proved its globally popular is just own-goal-scoring. What really pisses people off about leftyism is the inability to accept people may have alternative views, that judgementalism is just so offputting. And all of this reactionary untimely BS is playing directly into the hands of the Tories. So business as usual then. If we ever DO get another "Brexit-type" vote on the Monarchy, in favour of an elected President, does anyone REALLY think that the majority of the nation hates the Monarchy enough to want another periodic voting opportunity for a replacement? Cos that's not what I hear from people, unless I pop on down to the local annual Tolpuddle festival which gets supported by hundreds of people from all over the UK.


Other comments: The Monarch IS NOT PERMITTED TO GET INVOLVED IN ANYTHING POLITICAL! We, the British people who vote for the governments are responsible. That's us. Think about it. We have the oldest democracy on the planet, pretty much, and yet we keep voting in the people who really should be getting the criticism. And our human rights are pretty much among the best in the world. Now. Very few nations used to have much of a record, actually, the British were just more successful at imposing their will one way or another. Yet, Germany gets less of a slagging off despite voting in and going along with a man responsible for mass murder across continents. Have they said they are sorry? Does that make everything OK now or did those people all miraculously return from the dead? Cos The Queen actually lived during that time and contributed to the war effort, so let's hear a more balanced view on the rights and wrongs of history and who is actually responsible for what. Cos to me, it's blame shifting. WE are responsible, just as the Germans are responsible, the Spanish are responsible, the French are responsible, the Dutch are responsible, the Russians are responsible, the Japanese are responsible, and almost every other nation that has ever existed is if you go back far enough.

The Prince Of Wales previously did dabble in some famous issues (and got royally slagged off for it by the right-wing), and yet was forced to sit through the Scottish Green rep basically assigning blame to British royalty for all the things done by the British Gov, blissfully and jaw-droppingly unaware that King Charles has been pushing environmental issues while he was busy pissing up the school wall, and that King Charles now has no say in even that. And that he's directly descended from the Scottish monarch who acquired the UK monarchy as part of a political deal is just hilarious.

Posted by: Suedehead2 13th September 2022, 07:12 PM

Right-wing nutjob MP Kevin Hollinrake has complained about the BBC giving over five minutes of the Today programme to speak to an anti-monarchist. He has even suggested that such people should never get any airtime.

Posted by: Rooney 13th September 2022, 08:04 PM

Did you read my post or just look for a way to start an argument?

Yes it is totally bizarre we have a family born in to privilege and like I said in my post, no modern society would set up a monarchy as the concept it outdated. But unless we are a communist society and everyone is equal don't you think this happens across all walks of life every single day? The only reason people kick up a fuss is because it's in the media and we see it. Life is unfair full stop and their power is all influential rather than concrete. A President would have the same sort of influential power too. The iron is not hot for taking down the Monarchy at this moment in time and nor is it the problem at hand with our country.

Posted by: T Boy 13th September 2022, 08:19 PM

You clearly didn’t read my post actually, but thanks for the gaslighting in the very first sentence here.

It’s because people don’t challenge it that it remains. As I said, it’s not their power and influence that has people against them-everyone already knows they’re purely symbolic. It’s more about the fact that people will be freezing and/or starving this Winter yet we’re currently watching ridiculous expensive pomp and circumstance. That a family get to live out a life of privilege and are born into roles they required absolutely no qualifications for. This isn’t right and we shouldn’t just be ok with it because it’s the way it’s always been.

Just because it may not be the biggest issue facing the country doesn’t mean it isn’t one that should be tackled. I mean, where would you even start if we had to tackle issues in order of importance in this messed up place? You may believe there’s no appetite for abolishing the monarchy but how does that mean people shouldn’t be able to publicly air their grievances? How on Earth will appetite grow if people are silenced because royalists are clutching their pearls?

Yes, of course the government is an issue but why can’t we rethink both?

And yeah, sure not everyone is equal but we live in a country where nurses, teachers and carers are resorting to food banks and the royals are born into financial safety for life. Life may not be fair but I can’t understand how anyone can turn the other cheek at unfairness of this scale.

Posted by: Jessie Where 13th September 2022, 09:19 PM

This has now been reversed, thankfully.

Posted by: כן 13th September 2022, 09:27 PM

That’s a very extreme aggressive reaction for someone who is apparently ambivalent. Also where did Silas tell anyone to feel or do anything? Erm, if that’s true, it’s quite hypocritical because you’re doing the exact same thing (also, see the part in bold, how are you exactly accepting other people’s alternative views? Glass houses) but with an ever so slightly unhinged patriotic ‘UK is the best because it has an ancient outdated tired obsolete unnecessary ridiculous exploitative misogynistic racist homophobic tradition from the good old times before iPhone 6’ touch.

Also, I don’t really know how to feel about one using hitler as an argument to not abolish the British monarchy

Posted by: Rooney 13th September 2022, 09:59 PM

The system gets replaced with another system though, which is a cost to the taxpayer. I completely get why people are anti-monarchy, but you replace one system with another and neither systems are going to solve our problems. Neither a monarchy or republic state will make any difference to my life whatsoever. I understand your point about the roles and people being born in to privelige, but this happens every day and has happened for our entire existence. Yes it sucks, but why do we get to live our lives in relative peace and yet some souls live in constant war and famine? It's pure luck, life isn't fair.

I totally get the whole shebang about food banks and people freezing, but these aren't new problems. I don't think the world should stop in the way it will do likely on Monday and some of the decisions companies and businesses and even charities have taken are completely hyperbole. The monarchy aren't going to solve these problems. All you're going to see over the next 5-10 years is the Monarchy reduce in size and costs imo.

You might want appetite to grow for change but most people don't with the monarchy. People love the Royal Family for plenty of reasons. I don't understand it myself, but if you speak to mlost people over the age of 50-55 they absolutely worship the Queen or respect her greatly no matter political beliefs. I suspect a lot of that is generational.

Posted by: T Boy 13th September 2022, 10:08 PM

But this is why nothing ever changes. Acceptance of things being the way they are doesn’t take us forward. I’m glad you’re content with things being the way they are but that doesn’t mean everyone feels the same way and they shouldn’t have to just shut up and put up.

Posted by: Steve201 13th September 2022, 10:36 PM

The thing is your coming from the centre right viewpoint here and in every other arguement in different threads on this politics debate forum. With this attitude we would never progress, or maybe that the point?

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 13th September 2022, 10:57 PM

Why do you think he couldn't stomach the grestest politician since Attlee, Corbyn?!

Posted by: Rooney 13th September 2022, 11:35 PM

It's fine for people to have different opinons. I just feel this particular battle is not one there to be fought and nor would it make any difference to our lives. Just my opinion. If you think etsablishing a Republic is going to bring fundamental change to the country, then that's your opinion. Fine by me. Change isn't always good, will just throw that one out there.




I get the argument, like I have said, I find the system outdated in a modern society and if a country was starting sovernity they would not have a monarchy. I just don't believe esablishing a republic in ther United Kingdom is anywhere near the list of priorities and nor would it make the slighest bit of difference to anyone's lives apart from damaging our economy even further and spending a whole bunch of taxpayers money on implementing a new system for someone else to live in a Presidential Mansion.

Posted by: Steve201 14th September 2022, 06:46 AM

I get your arguement too and my point is you could change the words in your paragraph above and amend it to use the words in the energy prices debate and it’s the same - now isn’t the time for fundamental change.

Posted by: T Boy 14th September 2022, 07:01 AM

So you’ll allow people opinions but not the right to voice them because you don’t think said opinion is important enough right now? This has come up into discussion because people have been arrested for peaceful protest. All I did was question your statement saying the protesters were going a bit far.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 14th September 2022, 07:26 AM

The idea that the Head Of State is a non-political role is a very convenient fiction. Clearly. As people are being arrested for protesting against the family. Just because the monarch doesn't make any overt shows of political power doesn't mean that this state will resist changes to it, dissent or public discussion. It's not like most people have an army of servants empowered to do their will, or have regular meetings with the actual Prime Minister.

And pointing that out in no way turns away our ire towards the rest of government. We all give them ire regularly. Just when there is a change in the role by which executive power is considered to be derived, it's the time to examine it. Republicans are almost certainly more of a minority in public opinion than anti-Tories anyway.

Regardless of its inability to affect anything, leaving HoS up to the descendance of a rich family is a really insane arcane ritual and there's no good reason for it in a modern society. Maybe it'd make little difference to our lives to change. That's not a reason to not discuss it, nor is discussing it making it a priority over anything more immediately important to most people's way of life. But while the Monarchy gets to follow special rules that don't apply to the rest of us (like, say, Charles having a special exemption to not pay inheritance tax) and gets to de jure hold the power over everything in this nation, it's worth debating. It's not good to be living in a country where policemen come up to you if you're holding a blank piece of paper and ask for your details.

Posted by: Rooney 14th September 2022, 08:38 AM

Fair point - I just don't believe any change with the way our country has its structure would make any tangible difference to my life or anyone else's by abolishing the Monarchy, especially with the way they operate in 2022. Go back 100 years and I would have a different answer.



These things work both ways. If there was a Pride Parade and a group of people were stood there shouting "don't teach LGBTQ+ to our children" or using the Westborough Baptist Church who would picket people's funerals as examples, how do people feel then? Yeah it's the right for free speech, but people use the right of free speech to share abhorrent views. Personally I find someone using a sign with expletive language or heckling "Andrew you’re a sick old man" in a quiet moment is just slightly disrespectful (slightly more sympathy on the latter point - I don't agree with people being arrested for the record)

Posted by: T Boy 14th September 2022, 09:51 AM

I can’t believe you’ve equated those two things, they’re clearly different and you know why.

Posted by: J00prstar 14th September 2022, 10:21 AM

I do think the royals have missed a trick by not putting out a statement that they believe in democracy & freedom of speech even if they disagree.

Posted by: כן 14th September 2022, 11:02 AM

if we're using this example, which i'm hesitant doing, that would technically be slander if there was no trial and verdict.

Posted by: Jessie Where 14th September 2022, 11:38 AM

Plus what he actually shouted was "Andrew, you're a sick old man" which I'm not sure carries the gravity of slander (or warrants charges being brought against him)

Considering it was the first time he'd been seen in public since paying off that woman, I can't say I'm surprised somebody took the opportunity to address him in such a way.

Honestly, the absurdity of it astounds me. I hope Good Law Project is watching.

Posted by: Rooney 14th September 2022, 12:41 PM

Why is it different? It’s free speech?

I don’t agree with arresting people btw. And I take the point about Andrew, I have no love for the man and think he has abused his power and shows no remorse or understanding for his actions. Just don’t feel heckling at that moment in time was the right thing to do on a personal level.

Posted by: Smint 14th September 2022, 12:47 PM

I would have much more sympathy for the "this is not the time people" if this whole charade didn't last a ridiculous 10 days. 10 days when efforts are not spent on saving the planet, reducing poverty etc etc....It's just a bit warped sense of priority in 20 fecking 22.

Posted by: Rooney 14th September 2022, 12:57 PM

Overkill I agree, but the coverage is less in your face compared to the Queen Mother for example. Just be thankful none of us seemingly live in Thailand when their head of state passes!

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 14th September 2022, 04:41 PM

What was the.Queen Mother footage like?

Posted by: J00prstar 14th September 2022, 05:00 PM

I agree. People saying "its her funeral" when her funeral literally isn't until a specific date next week.

Posted by: Steve201 14th September 2022, 05:23 PM

I think it’s far worse for the Queen in terms of constant coverage - I means it’s been constant everyday on bbc 1 since last Thursday now!

Posted by: Jessie Where 14th September 2022, 05:50 PM

This is the reason why I'm avoiding TV and radio right now, social media being awash with it is overwhelming enough.

Will we finally hear the end of it once the funeral is over?

Posted by: T Boy 14th September 2022, 05:56 PM

Well on one hand you have people protesting in order to oppress a minority group and on the other you have people protesting against oppression.

Anyway, I’m not sure there’s any point in discussing this further as you understand my point exactly but don’t seem to car. It’s not the first time you’ve dragged out ‘now is not the time’ to criticise a protest, I remember your comments during the BLM protests. I simply cannot see how you think people shouldn’t bother expressing themselves because there’s ‘more important’ things going on. I guess I’m happy for you that your privileged enough for these things not to affect you at all.




I can barely remember it being bad so it probably wasn’t. I remember everything stopped that day, they played a very lightly edited chart the next day and I can’t remember it going on this long. They’ve definitely scaled down what they were planning for the Queen because of backlash and the fact they’ll lose viewers to streaming services.

Posted by: Silas 14th September 2022, 06:34 PM

Quite concerningly the Edinburgh arrests are actually just straight up overreach by Police Scotland. The Policing Bill is irrelevant as that is a devolved matter and thus the horror show that is Patels fascist wet dream has zero effect or impact north of hadrians wall

Elsewhere in the UK yes, absolutely. But questions need to be asked directly of Police Scotlands approach as it doesn’t appear to be particularly aligned with the law and the in practice use of breech of the peace (most notably online people are pointing out that the picketing of abortion clinics which is actively designed to be hostile and aggressive and trigger all of the three points of Breech of the Peace, does not in fact lead to their arrest by Police Scotland. If freedom of expression applies there, why not now)

ily <3

Posted by: dandy* 14th September 2022, 06:35 PM

Do people on here really watch the BBC etc? I'm surprised that more of you don't predominately watch streaming services - it's made me realise how little I actually watch terrestrial TV and interact with the news these days as so many people on here are grumbling and I've not really noticed the constant coverage ooops

Posted by: T Boy 14th September 2022, 06:44 PM

I actually consume all my television online these days through streaming. I’m not suffering the reality of the repetitive footage but it doesn’t stop me disagreeing with it or, unfortunately, seeing the competitive grieving on social media.

Posted by: dandy* 14th September 2022, 07:01 PM

I'll consider myself very fortunate that I don't have to endure that either then - aside from the day itself when a few of us said how shocked we were etc, I've barely had a single social media post about the whole thing. Even the algorithms know full well I'm only interested in clothes and vinyl

Posted by: T Boy 14th September 2022, 07:48 PM

And I see Center Parcs have changed tactic for Monday from eviction to imprisonment. It’s what Liz would have wanted.

Posted by: Rooney 14th September 2022, 08:01 PM

I remember it being really bad at the time, plus factor in she was not even the Head of State and it was a time when we didn't have streaming and 1,000 channels. At least in today's world we can switch off and find other stuff to watch. I still find the coverage slightly OTT for the record, but it's way easier to avoid it and I think after the 6pm news normal BBC programming kind of starts again.



So it's free speech when it's right cause and something you agree with, but oppression when it's wrong? I get your point entirely, but you're suggesting if the shoe is on the other foot it's wrong. Free speech is great, I don't want people to be arrested, I just find it untactful at that moment in time.

Damn right there are more important things than abolishing the Monarchy. It's important to you, but not to the majority of the country. There is absolutely no polling or appettie for abolishing the Monarchy on a widespread level, hence 'now is not the time'. It's a bit like me suggesting there's appetite for the United Kindom to stop using money & banks and to start using Crypto. Totally get your sentiment and I understand why people would prefer to be in the Republic to get with modern times, but unless someone can tell me the only benefit is I'll be able to vote someone in once every 10 years then just seems like an expensive vanity project to me.

Posted by: T Boy 14th September 2022, 08:16 PM

I guess it’s a mistake on my part but I am passionate about things I feel are right and just. Protesting against LGBT+ rights is immoral and should be a hate crime. Questioning and opposing a monarchy is absolutely nothing like that unless you’re oversimplifying which is what almost all your arguments are.

Now IS the time. If it isn’t discussed when the Monarch changes, then when will be the right time? Wait for things to calm down, so that everyone will forget, become good little children and just shut up and put up? No, there has actually never been a better time for this discussion. So what if there’s no appetite, it would still be much more healthy to let the discussion take place.

And we already have an expensive vanity project in the UK. It’s called your mates, the Monarchy.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 14th September 2022, 08:27 PM

I absolutely agree thst they have toned whatever they had planned down by a few notches after the overblown Prince Phillip coverage and the backlash it prompted! They even said they woulf review how they would treat such events in the future.

Posted by: Suedehead2 14th September 2022, 08:33 PM

Center Parcs' management leaves a lot to be desired. How on Earth was the original decision made? Was there really nobody involved who was prepared to say that it was a catastrophically bad idea? The same applies to the apparent restrictions on what customers can do on Monday (even though they now deny that people will be confined to their chalets). They really have made themselves look utterly ridiculous.

Posted by: dandy* 14th September 2022, 08:42 PM

Re the principles of the monarchy... I'm not as anti the royals as a lot of people in here seem to be. Out of all the land owners in power, I think they're probably the ones I least object to as they do at least bring a sense of culture and history... and without doubt must bring money in to the UK simply by being such a huge draw for tourism. They're symbolic with the UK and I would imagine they are the first thing most people around the world would think of when they are asked about the UK.

It's difficult to know how much of the income makes its way in to the general economy so they may not bring as much in as I'd have thought, but I can see positives in their existence to at least partly balance out some of the negatives. If we were going to think about where to start in terms of tackling wrongs in the UK, I personally would rather start with a government that I truly believe is corrupt and the well paid rich that own so much of the UK and influence it financially for their own gain - they don't seem to have any of the positives that the royal family do for me.

Posted by: dandy* 14th September 2022, 08:58 PM

I can also see both sides in the debate T Boy and Roo are having. I wouldn’t want to silence people’s right to protest but at the same time I find it difficult to respect people who shout and jeer at a funeral procession - albeit a long one. There are other less offensive ways. I do also respect that her death will have hit much of the older generation very hard (my in-laws cried every now and again for days!) so I can see why having the chance for those people to go and see her is potentially quite cathartic for many… even if I can’t quite comprehend anyone wanting to queue for THAT long to see anything.

This could well be the last huge thing like this imo - assuming Charles lives a fair while - as I don’t think my generation and those younger care enough for the monarchy to warrant it all.

Posted by: Rooney 14th September 2022, 09:17 PM

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. Being homophobic is a hate crime, but if someone does not want LGBTQ+ teachings to be taught their children, that is not a hate crime. We can't have free speech when it suits our agenda and beliefs and moan when it doesn't. Free speech is wonderful and we should have the right to have our opinion without being in fear of thrown in jail, but often people peddle abhorrent views as free speech.

Spoken like a true anarchist. You don't push through a change if people don't believe in it, you've put no argument to convince me to abolish our Monarchy and compltetely re-define our culture. There's no appetite for it. People forget the non-tangible impact of these things at times. I don't mind the Monarchy, but I don't love it. It serves a purpose and boosts our economy. Abolishing the Monarchy and setting up a Republic is an expensive project which you've not convinced me will make my life, your life or anyone else's life any better. Yeah so what they were born in to power? You can find hundreds of people born in to power, status etc. you just don't now about them as they're not on the news every day. Life is cruel, unfair and unkind at times.

Posted by: T Boy 14th September 2022, 09:30 PM

I’m not even trying to convince you of anything now, it’s a fruitless enterprise. You be fine with life being cruel and unfair, I’d rather fight for equality any day. I honestly don’t care if you look down your nose at me and consider me stupid and continue to talk down to me. I can’t get behind something so blatantly wrong.

Posted by: Steve201 14th September 2022, 10:04 PM

Re the coverage; I stream and record on my sky box most of the programmes I watch but I still click through the main channels each night to check what’s on.

And on sky the planner comes up to search for things and the Queen is on the front banner dominating and has been since last Friday.

Posted by: Rooney 14th September 2022, 10:06 PM

And that's fine that you can't get behind the Monarchy, I fully respect that. I'm not a Royalist, but you've not put together any form of argument other than it's unfair. I could list you loads of parts about life that are unfair. If there was appetite for it, I'd be saying go-ahead, but the public don't want it in this country and nor do I suspect they will for a couple of generations. I've never asked you to get behind the Monarchy, but you've not once acknowledged any benefits of the Monarchy which benefit our society, values, culture and economy - I don't consider you stupid at all for the record.

Posted by: J00prstar 15th September 2022, 05:26 AM

"Being homophobic is a hate crime, but if someone does not want LGBTQ+ teachings to be taught their children, that is not a hate crime."

I kinda disagree with this. What is the one if not the other?
LGBTQ teachings are generally "hey, these people exist. Here's a description. Please respect them", no? Toby would have a more direct perspective than me on that, of course.

Apols for the 'pile on' but I am kinda directly affected & I do think there is a bit of a difference between a governance choice and an issue regarding how to generally treat other 'categories' of humans.

Posted by: Silas 15th September 2022, 05:49 AM

People who „don’t want LGBTQ+ teachings“ taught to their kids are coming from a place of homophobia. This is an expression of their homophobia. If they were no homophobic they would not be saying this. Every place where you have a law that’s in like with this is extremely homophobic and outright dangerous for LGBTQ folks, eg Hungary, Russia and Florida. It explicitly IS homophobia. It’s not fear for kids or whatever because that’s just a bullshit repackaging of gay panic homophobic messaging. There is no hypocrisy at all, it’s a woeful example to give

Posted by: T Boy 15th September 2022, 07:08 AM

But who is benefitting from it? I’d have more respect for you if you were a royalist to be honest, because at least the lengths you’re going to defend them would make more sense. But it’s your usual stance in these discussions ‘I don’t agree with this but’ and it always ends with you siding with the wealthy and/or powerful over those that need the most help. I’m sorry but I consider things being unfair to be a strong argument when you look at the way the country is.



I believe Rooney does have us on a technicality because the law of hate crimes and LGBT+ are not as tight as they are for racism. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be or that people aren’t campaigning for them to be. You can technically state you don’t agree with it being taught and it’s technically not a hate crime but it absolutely should be because it is homophobia no matter how you dress it up. It’s a really shitty argument to bring into this but I’m glad others are speaking up too.

Posted by: spiceboy 15th September 2022, 08:14 AM

I mean the hypocrisy:










I haven't noticed them attack you personally once throughout this thread, in fact they go as far as to establish they do not think you are stupid. But keep gaslighting.

Posted by: Rooney 15th September 2022, 08:48 AM

The whole country benefits from it economically and it’s part of our identity, culture and stature throughout the world. Look The Monarchy is not perfect, but I also believe over the last generation and especially since Diana passed they’ve realised this and have become adaptable. A Monarchy system is not perfect but neither is a Republic. You replace one shit system with another shit system. My issue is here is you fundamentally believe abolishing the Monarchy will make everyone’s lives better and a fairer society, I’m challenging this thought, as my opinion is it will not make the slightest bit of difference to our daily lives and wider society, and there is no appetite for it, so what is the point? For everything we may gain in having a slight democratic structure we lose by impacting our culture & identity as a nation.

And on your second point, I’m not trying to be a clever arse I’m merely just trying to show you the hypocrisy in some of the arguments and show why I think it’s slightly disrespectful and a mis-judged moment to be utilising free speech. I’m not getting in to an argument about hate crimes, I was just trying to show a different argument. I’ll use a different example- is it right that people protest and shout shame at women outside abortion clinics? As that’s free speech.

Posted by: dandy* 15th September 2022, 09:27 AM

It feels like this is on the edge of getting unnecessarily personal, can we all try not to do that as it will ruin what has been a good debate so far.

Posted by: T Boy 15th September 2022, 11:24 AM

You should probably contribute to the discussion if you’re going to post in the thread. You’ve only posted here to have a go at me which is something you accused me of doing to you in another thread last week. Please refrain from personally attacking me or I will report you.



I get that the benefits exist but I’m asking if we see them? I don’t feel like we do. And I’ve only spoken out in the thread because you criticised protests about the monarchy. Whether I think we need a Monarchy is neither here nor there, I’m fighting for the discussion to be had.

I also disagree that it’s hypocrisy. I respect that you think it may be but I’ve outlined why and clearly other posters have agreed. So I guess this is something we’ll just have to disagree on.

To be honest, I’m gonna bow out now. I didn’t mind debating this with Rooney at all but I don’t want posters coming here just to insult me and not contribute to the topic. I get very passionate when discussing things but I recognise that this may lead to posters taking issue with me and derail the thread. I hope a decent conversation can continue but I no longer feel I can contribute.

Posted by: Houdini 15th September 2022, 12:53 PM

The constant coverage for The Queen might be worse but it's a lot easier to avoid than how it was for Diana when she died. There were far less channels on TV in 1997 and technology wasn't as advanced as it is now. Even the kids/cartoon channels got affected in 1997!


Personally I've avoided all of it so far this week. Times like this are when the value of on demand services such as Netflix or YouTube really show, or in my own case doing some activities away from home during evening time.


Next Monday will be the most intense day so far though for the coverage of The Queen's death but unlike in 1997 for Diana's funeral it will be a lot easier to avoid if you don't watch linear TV.

Posted by: Steve201 15th September 2022, 01:00 PM

Yeh true but as I say my sky box has her picture and all.

It’ll all be over by next Tuesday though I guess as plans for the Coronation start.

Posted by: Rooney 15th September 2022, 01:18 PM

The changes are we don’t see the benefits, but we wouldn’t of a Republic either I don’t suspect. Both systems have advantages and disadvantages, we were dealt with the Monarchy hand (and it’s not like we are the only Western democracy to have a Monarchy) and it serves our identity and culture. Having a President would be expensive too, would they have better decisions? Who knows, our Monarchy have soft power only and I’d suggest they are pretty glued up to world issues that we need to be addressing. Fighting for the discussion is fine, but you have to convince people of the benefits. If someone could put forward a convincing, efficient and cost effective argument I’m fully open to changing my mind, but throughout all my knowledge, fundamentally we are changing one flawed system, with another flawed system and commiting to changing our culture and identify at the same time with no real plan or strategy.

Free speech is important, I’ve never once said I disagree. I also fully agree with the right to protest and these people should not be oppressed. I just found the timings disrespectful and an abuse of free speech. I was making similar examples of people utilising free speech around issues that I know as a collective BuzzJack feels passionate about (E.g. abortions). I think we can all agree protesting outside a clinic is the absolute wrong thing to do morally.

Posted by: blacksquare 15th September 2022, 06:59 PM

This thread got very spicy.

Anyway, I'm really intrigued to know the general feeling amongst the public (and those who never really cared about the monarchy in either direction) after this relentless coverage. Any recent polls?

Posted by: coi 15th September 2022, 07:07 PM

Yes, there was a https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/09/13/how-have-britons-reacted-queen-elizabeth-iis-death which also included statistics on support for the monarchy. They found that 64% of Brits support the country having a monarchy (with 21% opposing it and 15% saying they don't know), which is down from 75% ten years ago. There is also a clear age divide on this - 84% of 65+ year olds are in favour compared to 10% who oppose it, but for 18-24 year olds only 40% support it compared to 29% who oppose it.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 15th September 2022, 09:12 PM

Still very popular then! It remains to be seen how people will respons to Charles. It is too early for polls on the matter. For many years now the Queen has been the be and end all of the Momarchy, with William and Kate the sideshow.

Posted by: J00prstar 16th September 2022, 11:33 PM

This was great:

Posted by: Mack. 16th September 2022, 11:53 PM

Didn't Charles get heckled when he was in Wales??

Posted by: T Boy 17th September 2022, 08:28 AM

Absolutely spot on.



He did indeed and rightly so. I heard described as the most hostility he’s received from the devolved nations this week but not really surprising given his actions and attitude towards the Welsh over the past ten days.

Posted by: Linds. 17th September 2022, 08:44 AM

There's A LOT to go through in this thread but for what it's worth I'm in agreement with anyone who doesn't support the monarchy. I don't think they serve a valid purpose in this day and age and all they really represent is how much our societal system is based on classism, making the rich richer etc. I definitely think now the queen has passed that whole debate will have a whole lot more light shed on it.

I can't stand Charles so I'm not looking forward to this next chapter one bit. I think the only royal I wouldn't have minded seeing take the throne is Anne but yea I don't think not having a royal family would be a huge loss to us.

It's quite a shame to see people arguing that they represent British culture because we have a lot more going for us than them. Plus, the monarchy is always going to be a huge part of our history, people visiting the UK will still be able to visit Buckingham palace etc but I do think it's time we drew a line between it being something of our past and not our present.

Posted by: dandy* 17th September 2022, 09:53 AM

What do people think would change if we were to abolish the monarchy? The royal family would still own the residences they do now, either directly or in trust. They would potentially and presumably then take all of the income from said visitors for themselves and very easily maintain their status in the media if they wanted to. The only part that would change is that they wouldn’t undertake any public duties.

I get that people don’t like the concept of a royal family. I wouldn’t choose to have one if we were starting from scratch either, but we’re not - we’re starting from a place where that family already owns everything. I don’t have any particular desire to have a monarchy in place but it is only sensible to take a balanced view of the positives and negatives of their existence. I’m not sure anyone in here has particularly taken a monarchist stance, more challenged the concept that things would automatically be better without them. We’d be essentially stripping them of any obligation to do good and turning them into another private family of rich land owners in the UK. And that’s the exact category of selfish families who have such a monopoly over everything that I’m not sure I’d want another, potentially more powerful one, added to it.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 17th September 2022, 10:02 AM

With our media, our presidents would have been Thatcher, Blojo, and William Hague...

I don't like Charles either, and hate our classist system, but I think the monsrchy is thr least important of the changes we need to make, for now - voting system, media, rejoin the EU, etc.

Posted by: dandy* 17th September 2022, 10:04 AM

^^
Exactly this for me as well. The royals are nowhere near the top of my list of issues.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 17th September 2022, 10:42 AM

I think to what I'd say towards meaningful republican action is... the path to abolishing the monarchy is possible within our lifetimes, change often happens quicker than is expected. The Queen ended up being a special case, long term surely there won't be as much adoration towards her successors.

But also some institutions seem so encroached on our society that you could use this argument for anything and then nothing changes. Sure, it's far from a priority, but it's a component of the state that should be dismantled at some way along the road because while it's there it will forever be a huge symbol of inequality.

Give Charles time to mess up, some momentum from other monarchies being dismantled. At least, the number of Commonwealth realms will surely shrink over the next decades and it's quite possible that another European monarchy decides to completely dispense with their royal family too - I'd call Spain. But then, as the UK has the monarchy with surely the most scrutiny, it could even be sooner than that.

also in the event of dismantlement at least a good portion of what they own should return to the people, considering they've been getting away with not paying inheritance tax and any number of legal loopholes specifically for the Crown over the years

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 17th September 2022, 10:44 AM

This isn't something I'd currently suggest any political party makes as a stated aim, by the way, but if sentiments follow the predicted direction of travel, then perhaps. We certainly need to get out of the attitude where it's political suicide to suggest republicanism, that's as crazy as the way it is political suicide for American politicians to publically admit atheism.

Posted by: T Boy 17th September 2022, 10:44 AM

And yet all the more important issues have been muted and pushed the side for the best part of two weeks purely so that we can have this grief circus we have currently. How exactly are all these issues being tackled right now? How is having the Monarchy helping at all?

I don’t mind people supporting the Monarchy but it’s the idea that we all should that gets to me. Perhaps it’s down to growing up in a devolved nation who’s history they’d like to make us forget in favour of this privileged system and their history that makes me dislike it so much. Perhaps it’s because I can see that the current behaviour of many this last is just not normal at a time when people are generally struggling to get by. Whichever, I’m just not happy to carry on just because it’s the way it’s always been.

Posted by: dandy* 17th September 2022, 10:51 AM

If this were to actually happen then I’d be far more inclined for it to happen immediately! As things stand I just don’t believe it would and I’m not sure how legally anyone could enforce it. Although admittedly I’m far from an expert around it.

Posted by: dandy* 17th September 2022, 10:56 AM

Oh and Toby I agree that it’s ludicrous that parliament etc has stopped at a time when clearly action needs to be taken to support people in the UK. I also don’t agree with anything critical closing on Monday.

Posted by: T Boy 17th September 2022, 10:57 AM

Another point would be that any wealth they would retain, they would have to sustain themselves. From what I understand, a lot of tax payer money has been used to fund royal weddings, funerals, their security etc. and perhaps that could be redistributed to our underfunded public services.

However, I guess that would lead to a moral dilemma about what happens to some people employed by the Royal Family. A dilemma, though, that our King doesn’t seem bothered by as he’s making 101 of his staff redundant.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 17th September 2022, 11:00 AM

oh for sure, this circus dominating the news cycle can't come to an end soon enough (and parliament need to stop having yet another holiday)

Considering dismantling the monarchy would involve pretty much completely changing our constitution, I think in that system what's legal would generally go out of the window and that would come up to however the country chooses to present the 'republicanism white paper' as it were. I think it's far less likely that the family personally would get to keep everything, because there's already a distinction between their Privy Purse and the Crown Estate that they don't personally control and I'm almost certain in the event of republicanism the latter would return to the state.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 17th September 2022, 11:04 AM

One of the more promising things about Charles has actually been his proposals for a slimmer monarchy, and I suppose redundancies are part of that, even if it's not good for people personally involved. A grandiose monarchy will employ a lot of people, but a slimmer one spends less public money.

In any case, a slimmer monarchy is both more palatable to people right now and makes any abolition somewhat easier.

Posted by: dandy* 17th September 2022, 11:08 AM

I agree that the crown estate would pass back to the state, but doesn’t that already operate to create an income for the state?

I’m not 100% sure what’s in it but I don’t think it contains many/any of the key residences or public attractions does it?

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 17th September 2022, 11:27 AM

It does but it also helps towards the upkeep of the monarch. And its income is well, that of a private corporations (one that just so happens to be 'taxed' at a very high rate), so anything that it makes money from such as rents is obtaining the wealth that it provides Britain, from its people. It's essentially a singular example of the nationalisation vs privatization dynamic which is very much too far along the privatized side in the UK.

It won't contain private residences like Balmoral or Windsor, but I believe most everything else associated with the crown is in it. But whatever the family would keep would depend on the circumstances of the switch.

Posted by: dandy* 17th September 2022, 11:31 AM

This chat has got me intrigued… I’ve googled the Tower of London as an example. Google says it is owned by the crown estate but then I can’t see it within the list of assets on the crown estate website.

Posted by: Smint 18th September 2022, 07:39 AM

With Liz Truss in charge with a 60 plus majority (or whatever it currently is) No Thanks! Well, apart from emergency cost of living legislation maybe - and even the proposal she has greatly benefits the energy companies and the ultra rich to the detriment of the poorest in society and the planet.

Re: Royal family abolition, although I agree that the concept is unfair, the coverage is now beyond tedious and I do agree that people can focus on more than one thing at a time, it seems wrong to spend time and energy on this when we have the Climate emergency, cost of living crisis, full scale assault on minority rights, future for the young people etc etc Especially as our new King might ruffle more than a few feathers with his barely hidden political views unlike his ultra silent predecessor.

Posted by: Steve201 18th September 2022, 07:48 PM

There was a massive banner on the Belfast hills declaring ‘we serve only Ireland’ which I’m sure he saw when flying into Belfast city airport!

Posted by: dandy* 18th September 2022, 09:41 PM

I haven’t really followed anything about Charles… what has he done to the Welsh?

Posted by: T Boy 18th September 2022, 09:43 PM

Imposed a new Prince of Wales on us that we don’t want or need. It didn’t need to be his first act as King but he’s firmly put us in our place.

Posted by: dandy* 18th September 2022, 09:45 PM

Oh I see! Is William not a popular choice then? Or is it more that people would rather just not have one at all?

Posted by: T Boy 18th September 2022, 09:51 PM

The last actual Prince of Wales was murdered by the English centuries ago and the Monarchy used the title to mock, degrade and show the Welsh who was boss. It went away for a time but then Charles was gifted the title. I mean, it was obviously going to bestowed upon William at some point but to do it the day after he became King smacked of reminding us of our place. I doubt we’ll see and investiture this time though, there is absolutely no mood for it in Wales.

Most Welsh people would rather have no Prince at all. Those days are gone for our nation and it’s salt in the wound to have an English one. Photos of William in all his England rugby gear being shared across social media isn’t exactly helping either.

Posted by: Suedehead2 18th September 2022, 09:55 PM

I remember being forced to watch Charles being made Prince of Wales at school. I didn't realise the title had been in abeyance for some time before that.

Posted by: T Boy 18th September 2022, 10:03 PM

I’m not fully sure how long it was gone if I’m honest-perhaps not long. I did only find out recently that despite the demand, Elizabeth II was not made Princess of Wales because of the possibility that George VI would go on to have a son who would have inherited the title over her (and indeed would have become King.)

Posted by: Flatcap 19th September 2022, 09:15 AM

Since 1301, when the first Prince of Wales (British monarchy) was created there have been 23 holders of the title. Last one before Charles was the late Duke of Windsor who abdicated in order to marry Wallis Simpson.

Not a fan of the current Royal Family as such, but I do love reading about British Royal History.

Posted by: neill2407 6th January 2023, 03:27 PM

I’m quite shocked by Harry releasing a book detailing quite serious issues within the royal family. I don’t think he has done himself any favours. My family isn’t perfect but I wouldn’t dream of going to a newspaper or writing a book about my experiences. His family life is private and best to keep it that way. He clearly has a lot of issues to go to that extent and I don’t see what it’s going to achieve apart from more harm than good.

Posted by: Auld Lang Shlong 6th January 2023, 03:38 PM

Talking about his war "kill count" is

Posted by: spiceboy 6th January 2023, 08:16 PM

I disagree, this is a public family not any ordinary family. You can’t fix wrongdoings without first exposing them and there is clearly a lot of injustice and mistreatment occurring within the royal family that should be sorted.

Posted by: neill2407 6th January 2023, 08:49 PM

It’s only his point of view. Nobody really knows what has gone on properly within the royal family. In addition, I can’t see how writing a book and going public about it will help in any way. In fact, it’s likely to make relationships more strained.

Posted by: Rooney 6th January 2023, 11:07 PM

The whole thing is a complete parody, he can do what he wants but it goes against the whole "we want a quiet life" line that was delivered. He needs to make money and he can do what he wants, fair play to him - to use the media for his own financial gain after so many years of tournment is absolutely fine.

I do feel he has been badly advised though, some of the exerts in the book come across as naive. The kill numbers comes across as classless and if Harry or his team did not know that influential people will use that to recruit inm the future then it's wholly naive from Harry and his team. The whole thing is classic PR and an attempt to sieze the narrative. It does seem the relationship between William & Harry has always been fairly frosty and probably hightened by the fact the brothers were treated differently as one was going to be the future King and the other was not.

Posted by: J00prstar 6th January 2023, 11:14 PM

Kinda disagree. Not sure how its any different to the recent book published where she wasn't sad her mum died

Posted by: Auld Lang Shlong 6th January 2023, 11:16 PM

Eh?

Posted by: Slayer 7th January 2023, 01:32 PM

Harry & Meghan >>>

Glad they are speaking up.

Posted by: Envoirment 7th January 2023, 05:16 PM

The biography of Jennette McCurdy I'm Glad My Mom died.

I can't really speak on the book as a whole (I mean no one can - it hasn't been fully released yet), but the only thing I see wrong so far from the leaks is the way Harry describes his time as a soldier and those he killed. The rest of it seems fine and I can understand why Harry would mention some of the stuff he has. He's always been very against the press etc and if his family did use the press against him and Meghan I can see why he would want to reveal/detail that. The stuff written about Camilla isn't surprising/quite sad.

Hopefully bringing to light the behind the scenes of the royal family will help bring about change or bring them one step closer to no longer being required.

Certainly seems like the Queen's death has triggered what seems to be somewhat of a downfall of the royal family with events of recent months.

Posted by: spiceboy 8th January 2023, 11:15 PM

This and this!

Posted by: *Tim 29th November 2023, 12:22 AM

Not sure if this is the thread to post it. But the Dutch version of Endgame (I think) it has been revealed that it was Charles who was worried about the skin colour of Harry and Meghan's kid. The book has been banned from being sold :skull:

https://www.ad.nl/show/geruchtmakend-boek-over-britse-royals-in-nederland-uit-de-handel-vanwege-vermeende-racistische-uitspraak-charles~ad2492e6/?fbclid=IwAR1sw5WLv31s1-IrfF_6ZZ7e36WGOnudIP4yzVT4PYfY7tzhsL-1av5mGVI

Posted by: Anita Hanjaab 5th February 2024, 06:20 PM

King Charles has cancer!!

Kate has something, and it sounds quite serious, too.

Posted by: Smint 5th February 2024, 10:28 PM

Respect to him about being honest about it. Rather than keep it secret.

Posted by: J00prstar 6th February 2024, 12:19 AM

Speculation that they wouldn't have announced it if it wasn't serious.

Posted by: TheSnake 6th February 2024, 12:23 AM

Indeed, hopefully he will recover soon.

Posted by: Rooney 11th March 2024, 04:07 PM

So the Kate theories really passed me by until last night. Now after this latest gaff, I think everyone really wants to know what is going on

Posted by: Anita Hanjaab 11th March 2024, 04:41 PM

A serious abdominal surgery - hysterectormy, colectomy, etc. Serious surgery which will have her our for months.

Posted by: crazy chris 11th March 2024, 09:56 PM

Someone on Mumsnet says she's been told by someone where she had it done that it was a prolapse, where the womb drops down. A serious operation then.

Posted by: Smint 12th March 2024, 08:59 AM

In a shockingly but sadly unsurprisingly burst of hypocrisy The Sun has on their front page a plea for people on the internet to not speculate and to leave Kate Middleton alone. Meghan Markle/Princess Diana anyone?

Posted by: spiceboy 22nd March 2024, 08:46 PM

So she has announced she has cancer and is having chemotherapy. Hope she beats it, would be horrific if those young children lose their mother after William and Harry lost their mother as such young ages too. She will at least be getting the best treatment in the world.