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Posted by: daniellovesmusic 3rd February 2022, 03:20 PM

Hello, I’ve decided to create a thread based on this issue. In April, 22 million households in the UK are set to have a MASSIVE energy tax increase. It is set to soar by 54% - which is an extra £57.75 a month, or £693 a year. At this current stage, energy prices are at £1,277 a year. Due to this increase, it is set to rise to £1,971. We purchase our energy from Russia, and they have increased the energy bills due to the Russia jacking the prices of their energy. The government have also introduced a package to help people with their energy bills, but people are worrying that this isn’t enough to help them with their energy bills.

What are your thoughts on this? What do you think the government should do to try and help decrease energy bills?

Posted by: Rooney 3rd February 2022, 03:53 PM

We've been talking about this a bit in the Conservative general thread. My point of view is there is not a lot that can be done, but the Government policy seems ill-thought out and slightly rushed. People have known this will have been coming for months, but the policy looks like it was only put together over the last few days. One benefit (that Labour pointed out) of leaving the EU is we have the ability to cut VAT on energy - I'm not sure why the Government has not done this. The £200 loan in October seems needless to me - I think it could be way better targeted and it adds a lot of extra unnecessary admin to energy firms (who will front the cost and add it on to us, the consumers).

Not a pretty picture though. Points out our renewable energy sources are not anywhere near where they need to be yet.

Posted by: Smint 3rd February 2022, 03:55 PM

And the Government are talking about a DISCOUNT which you havea to repay back in a few years. Unless I'm being extremely naive - whenever I buy things using a discount then the saving is mine to keep? Just more lies and spin. I'd call it more of a payment plan.

Posted by: Ho-Lee Smokes 3rd February 2022, 03:59 PM

absolute joke people struggle with energy bills as it is

Posted by: slowdown73 3rd February 2022, 04:17 PM

The rise will cripple many families even with the measures outlined today. It is scandalous that energy companies like Shell who have announced record profits today will be giving their shareholders a rise when many families will have to make a choice between food or heating. This clearly requires further government intervention but the Tories seem too preoccupied with other issues like Brexit and dismissing partygate allegations.

Posted by: Smint 3rd February 2022, 04:19 PM

Incompetence/preoccupation with other things is certainly a big feature of this government, yes, but isn't the main thrust idaological from these cruel bast*rds to load the pockets of their already over wealthy backers without a care in the world for the people who can't afford to live?

Posted by: daniellovesmusic 3rd February 2022, 04:32 PM

It’s honestly so disgusting. Even people who have never struggled with bills before will be struggling now.

Posted by: Suedehead2 3rd February 2022, 04:39 PM

Yet another reason for investing more in renewables and reducing our reliance on imported energy.

Why is none of the loan being paid for out of shareholders' dividends?

Posted by: Popchartfreak 3rd February 2022, 05:57 PM

So, the government doing another sleight of hand really. The tax on North Sea gas price increases will essentially subsidise a gift of £200 a year to anyone paying Council tax. A bit like the 1.5% NI rise wiping out our 1.75% wage increase. That doesn;t take into account that Council tax will also go up as government subsidies have really put the boot in and costs are going up for everything.

On the plus side the announcement forced me to check my energy bills as they are Direct Debit, and I'm too busy to log on and flick through something that British gas smart meters should all work out. On the negative side, our smart electric meter turns out to be huge dumb f***er that has refused to work for 2 years and has assumed that because of a fault it developed that we had been sat in complete darkness for 2 years not watching TV, washing machines etc while still paying out £60 a month on gas. It's my own fault as I should have known from our New Council much-hyped Smarter Structures (reorganisation in Plain English) that anything which claims to be smart is a pile of dog poo invariably. So, I can look forward to a 2k bill popping up as well as an annual increase to both gas and electric. A wage cut in real terms, versus inflation of 5%, and everything costing way way more.

I'd like to say a sarcastic "Thank you" to people who voted for Brexit and the Tories, along with a smug "Told You So" and I hope all of your bills are shooting up like mine.

Hugs n kisses x

Posted by: Popchartfreak 3rd February 2022, 06:01 PM

Yes, one plus will be the flawed argument about renewables being too expensive for people. Billionaires trotted onto the media to dig out this excuse will be laying low for the forseeable future and even without gov subsidies for solar and wind they will look a lot more attractive to a government now subsidising gas essentially.

Posted by: shadow2009 3rd February 2022, 08:54 PM

The amount of comments I've read on social media (there's a big discussion about this on Reddit) with people saying they're genuinely scared for their futures.....this is a really dark time to live in the UK. I feel so, so sorry for the unemployed/poor/disabled who this will inevitably hit the hardest.

Posted by: Herbs 3rd February 2022, 09:00 PM

Another thing that has happened that highlights what sort of government this Tory government is. I grew up with very little money and I don't think my parents could have handled something like this. This will really hurt people close to the brink and will push people who were previously ok to the brink. Disgusting

Posted by: Chartfridays 3rd February 2022, 09:22 PM

The BoE boss on 32x minimum wage telling people not to ask for wage rises certainly seems like a bit of a 'f*** the workers' move.

Wages have already been rising due to Labour shortages.

The most annoying thing is a lot of this comes down to people not being able to save or grow their savings for the past 10 years because interest rates have been frozen for an unprecedented period of time. So increasing interest to fight it is a bit of a kick in the teeth to the millions who've worked their ass of for little reward for the last few years.

Posted by: Rooney 3rd February 2022, 10:07 PM

I know what he was trying to say, and he is right in the idelogy on his thinking, but like that is ever going to happen If your employer offers a 7% payrise, no-one is going to turn that down, and rightly so.

Posted by: slowdown73 4th February 2022, 01:43 AM

The current cost of living crisis isn’t solely related to Brexit or the Tory government though. The energy crisis is affecting many other countries due to the steep rise in the cost of wholesale gas. My parents live in Cyprus and their energy bills have also rocketed. It’s true that some food prices have risen due to Brexit but we have also experienced a pandemic which has impacted on the supply and demand of certain goods causing inflationary pressures. However, I certainly think the government should be doing a lot more to address the issues including stopping energy companies from raking in massive profits at a time when consumers face difficult choices and the NI rise is totally unnecessary and will add to the problems many people are facing.

Posted by: blacksquare 4th February 2022, 01:55 PM

...Surely not?

Posted by: Izzy 💀 4th February 2022, 02:02 PM

???

Every time I read more about this policy the more it baffles me. It looks more like they're just salting the earth + a little extra f*** you to people who don't own homes now but will in the next 5 years.

Posted by: Quarantilas 4th February 2022, 02:32 PM

This gets stupider and stupider.


Is it levied on bill payer or property? What if you only become a bill payer in 2024? Will you then have 160£ extra to pay even tho you got no benefit? What if the bill payer dies in 2025? Will the state come after the rest of the 200 from their estate?


This is the dumbest suggestion I’ve ever heard. Literally only a billionaire could come up with this

Posted by: Rooney 4th February 2022, 08:35 PM

It's a really dumb policy and one I suspect they will adjust before October. Very unfair on new bill payers (not just home owners, bill payers in general). Feel they will lose so much mony through either people moving in together due to natural progression in life and death too. Suspect all the new bill payers will be the ones who foot the bill for those.. but yeah, totally daft. I'd much rather not have the £200.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 4th February 2022, 08:44 PM

This policy is a bit of a mess, it's a scam that protects the profiteering energy companies. It also doesn't go anywhere near far enough to protect those who will suffer the most, it's a bland 'cover all' offer that is very shallow.. we need something immediately more targeted and deep. Maybe, I don't know tax some of the £14 bn that Shell made in profits last year.. ??!

The volatility in the gas price is the cause, it should spur us to go even further with renewables, and yes - maybe we should consider public ownership of the energy market.

Posted by: Quarantilas 4th February 2022, 09:28 PM

That’s disingenuous. France has a heavily nuclear energy mix. About 5-7% of Frances energy comes from Gas (it’s 36% in the UK) They’re far more insulated from price rises. Like sure, EDF being state owned will have an impact but that graphic is so misleading.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 4th February 2022, 09:42 PM

Well not really, the point is not on how exposed they are to the volatile gas price, but more that their government is able to take substancially more effective action to protect the public from what exposure they do have. E.g. Macron limited increases to 4% with publically owned EDF taking the $8bn hit.



I still can't make out this policy from Rishi Sunak, but this (below) seems like a reasonable assessment.

Posted by: Quarantilas 4th February 2022, 10:32 PM

I still think it’s misleading because the context you give is totally missing. Sure they have more room to manoeuvre but still the fact that they have less exposure is a key piece of the puzzle that cannot be overlooked. It’d fall foul of advertising rules


Agree with that thread that it’s a total con. Ponzi scheme is a fair way to label it. It’s a ridiculously stupid con and I don’t understand how anyone with even the slightest shred of intelligence at all could possibly even come up with this.

Basically the gov let’s you borrow 200£ of your taxes at a 5% interest rate and the energy companies laugh all the way to the bank

Posted by: Skankhunt43 4th February 2022, 10:58 PM

Corbyn was right again about renatiinlaising energy companies and infrastructure Who'da thought! Clesrly not neoliberal right winger Rooney!

Posted by: Rooney 4th February 2022, 11:27 PM

No he wasn't right. Still don't think nationalising energy is the right move and as Silas points out, France relies on Nuclear energy for a significant amount of their energy so they are less effected by wholesale gas prices. And I'm not even sure France's energy sector is fully nationalised anyway? Only partly I think. Presumeably because to buy out the rest of the shares it would not be value for money.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 5th February 2022, 12:29 AM

Nationalising vital infrastructure, especially power, is a MOTAL IMPERATIVE. Just like the NHS, in the long run it will be FAR better value, both monetarily and for the nation itself.

Posted by: Rooney 5th February 2022, 12:36 AM

It is very different to the NHS. And who is going to pay for all of the investment in to infastructure and new reneweable energy sources? The NHS is already serverely under-unfunded and hasn't had the righr volume of funding to match life expectancy rates. Nationalising only works unless we pay 40% tax. Far better value in the long run.. I'm sure I've heard that one sounded out by Vote Leave before.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 5th February 2022, 12:49 AM

Sooo you prwfer energy companies to GOUGE us on prices and to squirrel the profits away? Great logic.

Posted by: Quarantilas 5th February 2022, 07:28 AM

The same way these companies currently pay for it Roo. But without a giant slice of our bills going to shareholders pockets

I know I’m the accountant here but come on mate. Just because it’s nationalised doesn’t mean it magically can’t 1) borrow money to fund major investment or 2) use funds from bill payers for investment in the same way centrica et al do now.


The model here is Scottish Water. Has a massive capital investment programme, the Scottish gov funds a lot via loans, and is currently rated the best water company in the UK by customers. I’m not saying it’s the perfect company, but it has operated very successfully and is a good blueprint for what an arms length government owned utility could look like

Posted by: Popchartfreak 5th February 2022, 03:55 PM

Yes thats true it cant all be blamed on brexit, though it can be blamed on tories because its a reality that oil and gas go up and down in price and for all their platitudes about green energy they have removed all subsidies on wind and solar and allowed nimbys to stop onshore and offshore wind farms, which would have reduced the need for the uk to keep relying on russia and the middle east. Funny the prices have gone up right when Ukraine is an issue .......

Plus, north sea gas, they could tax it to stay at the sameprofitable level it was at a year ago and legislate it should be sold entirely to the uk. Sounds a bit too much like socialism to the mega corporations financing the tories tho so its preferable they just shrug and say not our fault gov bloody russkies etc happily history shows nothing oisses an elecoirate off more than being less well off

Posted by: Envoirment 5th February 2022, 05:30 PM

I'm pretty sure most people pay more than 40% in taxes over their lifetime. Income tax, VAT, fuel duty, council tax, NI, inheritance tax, capital gains tax, insurance premium tax etc etc. I'd rather have the vital infrastructure in public ownership so that money can be reinvested or better spent than going into shareholder's pockets.

Posted by: Rooney 5th February 2022, 08:10 PM

Sorry, I should have said income tax at 40%. For a period of nationalising the entire infastructure and then all the other taxes as well. I think high tax and high investment in public services would work in a smaller country (does work quite well in Denmark and Sweden for example) but the current size of the UK, the population is too big and unforunately too big a gap between poor and rich, which ultimately means the middle class put a lot in and don't get the same amount out. I'd be in favour of rail nationalisation, but that's about it for me.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 5th February 2022, 08:53 PM

So right wing and neoliberal

Posted by: Quarantilas 5th February 2022, 09:41 PM

Germany has higher rates of tax than the UK and higher rates of public ownership of services. This is a model that can work in a larger country. After all both France and Germany have a larger economy than the UK. And you’d be hard pushed to find a major business in France the French state doesn’t have a stake in (Air France, Renault and more). And I have a handy example to hand of nationalisation that’s recent and by a larger economy!!!! State of Berlin bought back it’s power grid from Vattenfall for 2bn€. No tax rises. No tax payer funding. Don’t take my word for it, I found an English language version of the reports for you!

https://newsrnd.com/business/2021-04-29-state-of-berlin-is-buying-back-its-own-power-grid-for-two-billion-euros.HyL7S5dPO.html

Posted by: Rooney 5th February 2022, 09:49 PM

It can work, but does it have a greater effect all the time? Not saying it couldn't work here, but Germany and France also don't have one City that dominates the landscape in the same way London does here and just my own personal opinion, but nationalism doesn't equate to a better economy. That one factor is a large reason why we have so many problems here in the UK and why the levelling up agenda is such a joke. I think the Government having a stake in the companies is fine, but that's not the Government running the companies in the same way that is being suggested with full nationalisation is it with 100% ownership rather thaan a 70/30 split for example

Posted by: Steve201 5th February 2022, 11:56 PM

I think taking away all the economics and finances out of the picture the moral and social benefits of the nationalisation of essential state assets in the long term is also very important. One thing that they didn’t do back in the 1945-80 era was put workers on the board so they could give their important input into running the corporates.

Posted by: slowdown73 6th February 2022, 02:06 AM

I agree with you that a lot more could be done to address the energy crisis. It is infuriating that both Shell and BP have now announced record profits and rewards to their shareholders when some families will have to make a dire choice between heating or food. However, as pointed out the wholesale price of gas has climbed significantly on an international scale. Unfortunately, the U.K. relies heavily on gas rather than other alternatives, so we are likely to be more effected than some countries. The measures given by the Tories to help consumers are completely inadequate and market reform is necessary alongside a windfall tax on energy company profits.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 7th February 2022, 09:12 AM

Yes I agree with you too. The move to gas was political, to end dependence on coal and kill off the industry and political power of the coal miners, as opposed to a genuine attempt to go a bit greener, and everyone was happy enough while it was cheap and plentiful and there were no more strikes, but the problem with finite resources is you are just kicking the can down the road a bit (and in the meantime encouraging global warming and giving foreign nations sway over your own affairs unless you self-produce). Short-term riches for some instead of long-term stability and investment in the planet and jobs that will last for the forseeable future.

Posted by: Steve201 7th February 2022, 10:12 AM

Indeed, no strikes but the destruction of communities where there were no replacement jobs and foreign companies just opened up call centres or supermarkets which don’t pay enough money to live on. And they wonder why crime, ASB and drugs dominate these communities.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 8th February 2022, 11:02 PM

This government is (as close as it gets to literally) gaslighting us, Rishi Sunak makes false claim that https://fullfact.org/economy/2021-winter-temperature-weather/

As pointed out by Phil above, the reason for the massive increase in energy prices here in the UK the is because the UK energy market is now so heavily dependent on gas - and the shambles of a government that we have sold off the gas storage in 2017... (which was warned about https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/20/uk-gas-storage-prices-rough-british-gas-centrica).

I guess the only thankful thing is that we are currently having a relatively mild winter (despite what Sunak wants us to think) so we haven't had to have the heating on quite as much.

Posted by: Steve201 10th February 2022, 01:45 AM

This has been one of the mildest most boring winters of the century!

Posted by: slowdown73 14th February 2022, 06:29 PM

Energy costs may increase further if there is a war in Ukraine.

Posted by: shadow2009 5th March 2022, 12:11 AM

Yikes. Just got my email from British Gas informing me of an increase of £169 annually for electricity and £408 for my gas. Standing charges have jumped from 28p a day to 54p a day.

How are people going to afford this? I'm lucky that my other bills are manageable (for now) and I live alone in a council flat but I must admit this has got me pretty anxious and concerned for my family members who are already struggling. How can a standing charge rise so much?

Posted by: Envoirment 5th March 2022, 12:39 AM

A lot likely won't be able to and will have to chose between eating or warmth. The scary thing is that the energy cap is likely to increase dramatically further in October due to even more increases in the price of Oil/Gas.

Inflation is likely to go well beyond what was initially predicted. I remember it was forecast to peak at 5%, then 7%, now it looks like it may even hit 10% or higher. The war in Ukraine is not only effecting fuel/gas prices but also food.

Posted by: Rooney 5th March 2022, 12:49 AM

It's dire straits and the Government are still pressing ahead with this stupid tax rise instead of delaying for a year. The penny is really going to be pinched for lots of people come Winter 2022.

Posted by: Smint 5th March 2022, 12:58 AM

I pay my fuel as a fixed service charge on my rent in my flat and haven’t heard of an increase yet but wow it will come soon. And big - probably manageable in my case as spread over many tenants but impossible for struggling families.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 5th March 2022, 09:04 AM

My gas bill will double (it's been high for years because of elderly parents needing to stay warm all day long) and electric going up 20%. My smart-meter stopped working years ago (and I didnt bother checking bills cos, "smart" meter and direct debit payments) I found out after hearing of price checks I thought I'd check what I was using vs cut-off point for price rise. Turns out British gas just charged monthly rental on what the computer said was zero use. So regardless of price rises the direct debit will rise to pay off thousands in unpaid electric use. IT systems in large companies are crap. They can't flag high gas use and zero electric use in the same property as an issue.

Posted by: Steve201 5th March 2022, 03:56 PM

Think in the 70s inflation got as high as 26% but obviously from a lot lower starting point!

Posted by: Steve201 5th March 2022, 03:58 PM

Got oil last weekend 500l for £355 which is expensive, same place has it at £545 for 500l, they are robbing bast*rds imo!

Posted by: Doctor Blind 14th March 2022, 08:46 PM

Nigel Farage's solution to the energy price crisis is to...


*checks notes*

... make us EVEN MORE heavily dependent on a fuel source wholly responsible for the massive increase in prices.

Thankfully there are some sane voices in this debate (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/12/tories-russian-energy-cheap-green-insulating-homes-wind-solar-boris-johnson) but the arguments need to be made now and convincingly. I wish we had some competent leaders who could actively lead and press on this issue but I fear we'll slide into a load of populist right wing nonsense..

Posted by: Smint 14th March 2022, 11:16 PM

One would hope there would be better opposition to this and the public not so easily fooled as they were with Brexit. And that Farage is not as popular as he once was and people see him as a poisonous Putin loving racist asshole. I just can’t see this shit getting over 50% in a vote.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 14th March 2022, 11:20 PM

Eternal grifter, looking for relevance and money. He is vile, too, and massivley to blame for the cost of living crisis, with his hard brexshit.

Posted by: Silas 15th March 2022, 06:48 AM

Garage and Tick are up to their eyeballs in dirty Russian money. If I were them I’d stfu and sit the f*** down. But then again I would also have them charged with treason 🤷🏼‍♂️

Posted by: Popchartfreak 15th March 2022, 05:56 PM

Anyone who still thinks Farage/Brexit/Tories/Trump/republicans havent been licking Putin's arse for years with all the evidence that it's been one huge mutual jack support group must be a bit dense or cheering them on from the background....

So hopefully everyone fooled by Farage will at the very least be less inclined to publicly support him now. Especially as many of them will be struggling to pay bills despite all his promises of a wonderful utopia....

Posted by: slowdown73 16th March 2022, 01:10 PM

Well the energy crisis looks set to spiral. Petrol & diesel are now at record costs and some experts are predicting a further 40% rise in energy price cap later this year which will have a devastating impact on businesses and people on low to average incomes. Yet, the Tories are saying we have just come out of one crisis and they cannot protect most consumers from the rises ahead so basically they aren’t going to do anything to address the situation which is appalling. There are many things they could consider such as a windfall tax, cutting VAT on energy bills and reducing tax on petrol / diesel. This clearly shows they don’t care or have no empathy for the impact this will have on many peoples lives.

Posted by: Rooney 1st April 2022, 10:19 PM

The Tories are lucky the next GE is in 2024, come October it is going to be carnage. Rishi's dreams of becoming PM are slowly going to drift away!

Posted by: slowdown73 2nd April 2022, 12:54 PM

I suspect things are going to get a lot worse before the next general election. Energy prices look like increasing further and inflation appears to be on an upward trend. Yes, some of the public may have forgotten about partygate by then but the cost of living crisis will be very much an issue. I think they will lose their entire majority and hopefully be out. We need to give a Labour government a real chance to make a difference. The tories don’t care and they have proved that over their shambolic handling of covid and the complete lack of support offered over the energy crisis.

Posted by: cider man 5th April 2022, 08:12 AM

If prices were going up 54% then how come SSE has emailed me to say their rate per kw for gas is now 7.51p, up from 3.95p. Seen others saying the same thing. Surely they can't do that. British Gas 7.17p. Am gong to contact the ombudsman.

Posted by: slowdown73 6th April 2022, 11:02 PM

I don’t understand how it works properly but obviously it will be the unit cost and standing charge.

Posted by: shadow2009 7th April 2022, 11:10 AM

Standing charges rising is disgusting. I read that it was raised to cover the cost of suppliers going bust, but you know that they'll never be decreased back to their original charges afterwards.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 7th April 2022, 11:50 AM

How are your enjoying your brexshit and proto-fash Tory government?

Posted by: Envoirment 24th May 2022, 05:52 PM

Energy price cap expected to rise by £800 or possibly even more depending on what happens with Russia by October. Just dreadful.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 24th May 2022, 06:53 PM

I seriously don't get why they don't just levy a one-off windfall tax against the energy companies and give £1000 to every household dependent on benefits to help pay for the massive short-term increase in energy and food costs. Allowing them to make a massive profit out of war and doing nothing about it because 'the private sector's business is it's own' is frankly disgusting. I can't put across how much I hate the Tories and the rich that donate and support them to protect their own wealth.

Posted by: Brett-Butler 24th May 2022, 07:01 PM

Martin Lewis is on ITV now, I imagine he will have some choice words.

Posted by: Smint 24th May 2022, 10:03 PM

Don't worry everyone - the new line from the Tories is that "work will get you out of this poverty" Everyone hsa to magically just find higher paying jobs and work longer hours and bingo all will be fixed!

Posted by: Steve201 24th May 2022, 10:30 PM

It’s always the response line in PMQs for the past 13 years employment has increased and yet not once has Labour responded with the reply the jobs are in shite paid work!

Posted by: Jessie Where 24th May 2022, 10:40 PM

Every damn time

Posted by: T Boy 25th May 2022, 07:17 AM

Apparently a plan to help out is due to be announced and it’s honestly only a coincidence it’s happening as the Sue Gray report is released.

Posted by: Steve201 25th May 2022, 07:23 PM

Told you in todays PMQs same debate and doesn’t challenge him on employment stats!

Posted by: Brett-Butler 26th May 2022, 11:53 AM

Rishi Sunak has announced a temporary windfall tax of 25% on oil and gas companies, with 8 million households to get £650 towards energy payments. Pensioners will also get an increased Winter Fuel allowance and the disabled will get a one-off payment of £150.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 26th May 2022, 12:04 PM

to quote Starmer: "What was it about the Sue Gray report that first attracted him to a u-turn this week?"

good but should have been done weeks earlier and since I am fortunate enough to not be paying my energy bills in the UK I am probably not exactly clear on how much it will actually help.

seems they got rid of that horrible £200 loan too.

Posted by: Suedehead2 26th May 2022, 03:53 PM

Even as early as the beginning of this week ministers were denouncing a windfall tax as a terrible idea. I assume those ministers have now resigned as a matter of principle and to leave them free to vote against it. It is rather odd, then, that no news outlet seems to be reporting these resignations.

Posted by: slowdown73 26th May 2022, 04:44 PM

How convenient that the Tories have announced this latest package of support in the aftermath of the Sue Gray report. Although it offers some good measures particularly for poor people, many will still be unable to reconcile the extent of the Johnston governments deceit over lockdown breaches and their sheer incompetency during the course of the pandemic which led to many lives being lost unnecessarily.

Posted by: Steve201 26th May 2022, 06:40 PM

Posted by: Doctor Blind 26th May 2022, 07:17 PM

Great news! It's a shame that the Government had to be dragged kicking and screaming to this position, but it was the right thing to do.

Posted by: cider man 26th May 2022, 07:32 PM

At least be grateful we're all getting at least £400. Even when they do something good you lot here bash them. It's just pathetic.

Posted by: Suedehead2 26th May 2022, 07:39 PM

No. it's an indication of how utterly shameless this lot are. They will happily denounce something one minute before proclaiming it as the best thing ever the next minute. Nobody with any integrity would cheerfully accept being sent out to defend a policy before seeing that policy reversed within hours. Under Johnson, it happens all the time.

Posted by: T Boy 26th May 2022, 07:39 PM

But this isn’t coming until later in the year, when prices go higher. Some are struggling now.

Posted by: Suedehead2 26th May 2022, 07:39 PM

Oh, and we're not all getting £400. We're just seeing bills we haven't yet received reduced by £400.

Posted by: cider man 26th May 2022, 07:45 PM

Yes but it's summer now so you don't need any heating on. Mine's off now until October. Cold one morning? Put another jumper on. Only run washing machines and dishwashers when full. Shower less. No-one needs to shower every day. Once a week is fine for me with facial washes every day in between. Lots of ways to save. Lights are said to not use a lot but every little adds up. Don't leave your TV on stand-by all night. Something like £5 a year I read.

Posted by: cider man 26th May 2022, 07:47 PM

EVERYONE gets AT LEAST £400 off bills. Pensioners and those on means-tested benefits get more.

Posted by: Rooney 26th May 2022, 07:55 PM

The scepticism comes from when this has been announced Chris though, the Cabinet has basically tried to bury the Sue Gray report. The Goverment had to do something but let's not forget it is partly their fault why we are in this mess. The measures are good, but they are necessary and should have been done earlier. People are going to really struggle if we have a bad winter. The Chancellor becomes popular when he starts delivering left-wing policies from a very hard-right government - it's just bonkers. As much as I am not a socialist, it really does begger belief why people who love these policies vote Conservative.

Posted by: Suedehead2 26th May 2022, 08:53 PM

Wo we're not being given £400. We're just getting £400 less taken from us.

Posted by: Envoirment 26th May 2022, 09:43 PM

If the government were serious about helping people they would've done so months ago before the energy price cap rose by a ridiculous 54%. As opposed to dragging their feet through the mud and then announcing help at the convenient timing when the Sue Gray report was published.

Posted by: Jessie Where 27th May 2022, 09:06 AM

Not to mention the fact they had to be forced and shamed into this position of doing the right thing, and it's obviously being used as a distraction to try and bury the Sue Gray report.

It shows them for the duplicitous c**ts they really are, basically.

Posted by: Steve201 28th May 2022, 09:22 AM

Damn socialist government intervening in the free market that shits on the poorest!

Posted by: Popchartfreak 28th May 2022, 09:44 AM

Based on the last cash donation you have to go online and sell your soul to apply for it and hope they graciously donate it.

Incidentally i spent well over the number of hours caring for mum to qualify for some financial assistance. I saved the NHS shitloads by having her at home. But apparently i was earningvtoo muchfrom my part time working from home job 15k before tax to get any help. Apparently carers have make themselves destitute and sacrifice their own pension contributions to get a few quid.

Just mention it to underline that they genuinelydont give a shit about people. Its only cos they are worried a labour gov might get in cos theyve f***ed everything up

Posted by: *Tim 28th May 2022, 12:08 PM

Good luck keeping that up when summer truly hits


(Also disgusting)

Posted by: Smint 7th June 2022, 11:42 AM

I don't know whether this thread is most appropriate as a general cost of living thread. But although I knew about how food bank usage has increased, I was truly shocked to see the figure is nearly 1 in 6 of those surveyed. In Britain in 2022.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jun/07/food-prices-uk-inflation-food-standards-agency

Surely people who think that the market can solve everything and trickle down wealth must admit that is a fallacy after these figures (or they probably know and couldn't care less IMO)

Posted by: J00prstar 7th June 2022, 11:59 AM

It's frustrating when people come in with a smiley "well well, it will be fine if we just don't do as much XYZ".

Sorry, but we live in one of the richest countries in the world. We should'nt be having to scrimp and save just to keep a roof over our heads and the lights on, while cutting out sources of pleasure. That's not the life I grew up aspiring towards.

It's disgusting how standards have been cut more and more and truly I do believe the only reason there isn't more pushback is because certain people just don't know and others don't realise.

For example, I had to work one of the bank holidays we just had and my mother assumed I'd be getting paid double for it. ! Obviously not! But that was something she grew up with and was completely normalized for her. Paid extra for overtime. Paid lunch breaks including paid vouchers for any food you bought. Company cars. Companies paying you a fee to help relocate. Companies paying through the nose for hotels for you ON TOP OF your pay if you have to have an away day. Etc. etc.

All down the pan now, instead you can be fired for any reason at any time, a lot of people don't get paid sick days off or paid holidays. This is the UK in the 2020s!

Posted by: Smint 7th June 2022, 12:29 PM

Exactly - so many people have to work to earn their poverty nowadays and the Government crow about how the low unemployment figures is great news when it is not a route for even a basic lifestyle nowadays.

Posted by: Smint 4th July 2022, 07:53 PM

Excellent website set up to encourage people to boycott paying energy bills this winter. This is similar to the poll tax boycotts in the late 80s which was widely seen as the trigger that got rid of Thatcher. It is encouraging non payment but only if a million people pledge to do so. It offers good advice about what will happen if people don't pay.

https://dontpay.uk/

Considering capitalism is all about making the obsencely rich even richer nowadays I'm all for it. I'm not sure if I will go ahead with the pledge, myself, as can afford it, have to think more about it but acts of rebellion like this do make me feel happier inside.

Posted by: Steve201 5th July 2022, 08:12 PM

Yeh I hate the way Labour never replies to this BS at PMQs!

Posted by: Smint 27th July 2022, 07:21 PM

Better get extra jumpers in (I'm being facetious here) things are going up horrifically. And largely due to Putin squeezing the gas supply. Gonna be one tough winter.

Posted by: slowdown73 28th July 2022, 08:02 AM

It’s looking horrific and not just a tough winter if those predictions are correct. But how can it be right or fair that many people will either be faced with a dire choice of heating your home, eating and/or crippling debt when companies like Shell & British Gas Centrica are making record profits from the price rises. There is something seriously wrong in this country and further proof that this Tory government is failing us abysmally.

I would urge everyone to sign up to the campaign (link below) refusing to pay energy bills from 1st October unless the price is dropped. We need to take urgent string collective action as citizens as this government is clearly going to do nothing to help us.


https://dontpay.uk/

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/shell-reports-record-profit-115-billion-2022-07-28/

Posted by: cider man 28th July 2022, 08:37 AM

What good will not paying do? You'll just get cut off and STILL have to pay it plus a reconnection fee. They don't mess about. I worked for British Gas.

Posted by: Smint 28th July 2022, 09:40 AM

From the above site - there's a number of hoops they'll need to go through and idea is that they won't be able to take action if so many people are doing the same non action.

Won't they just cut off my gas and electricity?
This is a possibility, but it'll be extremely difficult for energy suppliers to do - especially on a mass scale.

For one, energy supply disconnections for non-payment are already extremely rare - as few as 8 in 2018 were reported. This is because certain rules govern energy suppliers' behaviour in non-payment cases:

If you haven't paid your bill after 28 days, your supplier may contact you about the possibility of disconnecting your gas or electricity supply. Their first port of call will be try to install a prepayment meter.
Before any further action can be taken, though, they must give you a chance to pay your debt through a payment plan.
The guidance says that, if you can’t reach an agreement with your supplier on clearing your debt, they can apply to a court for a warrant to enter your home to disconnect you. If you have a smart energy meter then your supplier could be able to disconnect the supply remotely without needing to access it, but they'll first need to have visited your home to do an assessment of your personal situation and the potential impact of disconnection.
We'll only go ahead with the non-payment strike if we have power in numbers. So, if energy suppliers decide to try to disconnect people, they'll be forced to first contact thousands, tens of thousands or even more customers about the possibility of disconnecting supply - but only after 28 days have passed. Then they'll have to give a chance to set up a payment plan before, in most cases, applying to a court for a warrant. It'll cause paralysis and create a months-long backlog.

Posted by: Silas 28th July 2022, 09:48 AM

So happy I signed a two year fixed term deal in December for my leccy (no direct gas) but I’m lightly concerned about the hot water charges as I have no idea how much that will raise by and it also runs a year behind (thanks Germany and your weird rental contracts)

Posted by: Smint 28th July 2022, 10:10 AM

Beautifully put - due to our worship at the altar of Capitalism, people are going to starve, get ill due to lack of heating and untold mental health issues just so that the fat cats can get even fatte. And these fat cats prop up our Governemnt. Sadly people either don't realise or don't care enough about their fellow human beings.

Posted by: slowdown73 28th July 2022, 01:58 PM

See the post above - the campaign will only go ahead if 1 million people agree to do it. Collective mass action through non-payment will have a very detrimental impact on the energy companies. Yes, they can threaten to cut you off but by law they are required to at least visit your home first and check your financial circumstances to reach an agreement. Very few people are actually just cut off. And if a million people do this then it will cause the energy companies significant disruption. Unless people act, we know the Tory government will do nothing to address this problem which has been building for years.

So what’s the alternative? Sit and wait and hope we get some kind of labour coalition government in two years time who probably won’t do a great deal neither.

Posted by: Smint 28th July 2022, 02:24 PM

dp

Posted by: Smint 28th July 2022, 02:25 PM

And the issue is that even if people by some miracle/Goverenment intervention just about manage for the price rises in October (they won't) what happens when the prices rise even further but with energy companies profiteering off the misery, where is the line drawn about paying bills? There has to be a tipping point where people fight back.

Posted by: Jαsє 28th July 2022, 04:40 PM

Boris Johnson today stated "I know the financial pressures people are experiencing but my argument is sometimes you have to go through periods of difficulty and you have to remember that they are inevitable."

Talk about not reading the room. Jesus Christ alf***ingmighty.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 28th July 2022, 05:04 PM

Absolutely RIDICULOUS. How can they expect us to pay foe all of this? Profits at the expense of people!

Posted by: Jessie Where 28th July 2022, 06:07 PM

He is scum, plain and simple.

Posted by: slowdown73 28th July 2022, 09:00 PM

Here is the problem. This country is run by millionaires or people who are completely out of touch with the reality of ordinary peoples lives. Boris Johnson has probably never experienced real poverty. He earns at least £120k in his job and that doesn’t include all the bonuses he makes from work on the side. When you earn that kind of money, energy bills rising to over £3k won’t have the same level of impact that it will have on the lives of most ordinary people on an average wage.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 29th July 2022, 08:12 AM

Johnson lied. The Tories lied. Just keep saying it.

Re British Gas, they arent the only supplier and they are quite relaxed about people not paying their bill because they play a waiting game.

I got a smartmeter installed 5 years ago to reduce costs (for me, and for them - they no longer needed staff to come round and read bills periodically).

4 years ago the electric smartmeter stopped working but I didnt notice cos I pay by direct debit and dont ever bother to go online and check my bills cos they always adjust DD up and down according to useage and so neither me nor BG did anything about it because neither of us spotted it. So I was getting billed for electric rental but no electric use.

So, for 4 years they had no system in place to flag up that someone paying £80 a month for gas was using "zero" electric for 4 years. That's how relaxed about it they are.

When I heard about the price rises I wanted to make sure the bills were up to date so I wouldnt get charged at the higher rate and took readings to check. That's when I found out, and told BG about the problem. They arranged to install a new smartmeter in March and I agreed to pay back electricity based on what I was currently using at a rate of £100 a month, once they'd got some readings for that period, and at previous charge rates, not the new rates.

It was raining so they couldnt install the meter and agreed to come in July.

They didn't turn up in July so I rang again. They had run out of smartmeters and had no idea when they would get some in so I continue to get "free" electricity until they tell me they have a smartmeter available. I'm suspecting the whole smartmeter thing has been a bit of a catastrophe for them and it's not actually that smart. And they continue to be relaxed about not getting payments.

Why relaxed? Because if you don't pay your bills, or get cut off, at some stage you will need gas and electric when you move and all the energy suppliers swap information on people who owe money. At that point if you want gas or electric you will have to pay up, plus extra in fines.

Just saying. They are very relaxed about the whole process. Are they telling you that in the mass disobedience plans? They make billions in profits and can just sit and wait till you need to move.....

Posted by: slowdown73 8th August 2022, 11:27 PM

Ed Davey has said today the government should scrap the energy price cap rise and fund the proposed increase themselves to prevent millions who will struggle to afford to heat their homes this winter. It would be predicted to cost 36m but it’s the best idea I’ve heard from any politician and likely to help people alot more than a tax cut.

Posted by: Steve201 9th August 2022, 06:26 AM

Do you think a Tory politician will do this and basically admit market failure? It goes against their wonderful free market ideology. Britannia Unchained will be burned on the bonfire or Friedman failures!

Posted by: slowdown73 9th August 2022, 09:32 AM

Of course the Tories won’t do it. But things are looking extremely dire with latest predictions of the price cap rising to £4200 in January and £4400 in April. The Tories will have to do something but as always, their policies seem to be more about protecting the interests of energy suppliers and the rich rather than helping people on lower incomes who are most at need.

Posted by: Rooney 9th August 2022, 10:45 AM

Tax cuts are stupid, what good is an extra £20-30 to people? A tax cut isn’t going to stop a recession, it might put off the inevitable for an extra few months. Stupid policy which people unfortunately fall for as they soon realise they lose out elsewhere when other essential services are slashed. The Tories are sleepwalking in to a catastrophe which imo can only be solved in the short term by increasing a windfall tax to increase subsided payments to the nation.

Posted by: Mack. 9th August 2022, 02:04 PM

Truss, Sunak and Johnson really need to get together (they are the same political party FFS) and come up with a properly costed and reasoned plan that they can all agree on and that can be put into place NOW!

Posted by: Chez Wombat 9th August 2022, 02:29 PM

Not Johnson's problem apparently, needs to be the new PM that decides it. I mean they should've really just taken over now instead of dragging this thing out pointlessly as he's literally doing sod all, but then his ego can't be damaged by having a shorter term than May...

Ofc. the new candidates are just focused on ineffective tax cuts and culture war bullshit that is not a problem to anyone that thinks clearly. I even watched one of the debates and I never saw one mention of how they plan to tackle this crisis outside empty words, it's gonna be a depressing few months ahead :'( (but hopefully one that will sink them once and for all)

Posted by: Mack. 9th August 2022, 02:40 PM

They don't care if people freeze to death this winter, though, do they?

Posted by: cider man 9th August 2022, 03:10 PM

Yes excellent idea and the best one yet.

Posted by: Steve201 9th August 2022, 05:28 PM

They are currently trying to appeal to the Tory base who will determine who they vote to be PM and because they are batshit crazy right wingers they have to be really right wing to be PM, simple as that!

It’ll be when they are in no10 that we will see the plan!

Posted by: Rooney 9th August 2022, 07:41 PM

Don't know if Truss will give handouts though, I think Sunak would cave in to the pressure, but imo Truss is also trying to appeal to those people who do not believe she is a staunt Conservative.

The proposed tax cut does absolutely nothing to a basic rate taxpayer and ultimately will mean a cut in our public services. Simply, the Government has to do more as not only are we walking in to a recession, people are not going to be able to afford their energy.

Posted by: Envoirment 9th August 2022, 08:09 PM

So after the cap is increased to ~£3300-3400 in October, it's now expected to be over £4200 in January. This is certainly going to be a massive winter of discontent in the making I would imagine.

Posted by: Smint 9th August 2022, 09:57 PM

Well Johnson has just put the cat amongst the pigeons by saying the new PM will definitely help out with energy bills. Completely undermining tenth rate Thatcher Ms Truss who is preaching the bollox about capitalism and market forces solving all our woes!

Posted by: Steve201 9th August 2022, 10:02 PM

Let her continue to do that she’s desperate to be pm so will say anything to attract the Tory members vote, if she continues it when in office happy days too Labour will win the next election due to it!

Posted by: slowdown73 11th August 2022, 09:54 AM

The government will have to do something in addition to the package already offered - failure to do so will lead to millions either starving, freezing to death or crippled with debt they are unable to repay.

Posted by: Smint 11th August 2022, 08:54 PM

The government will do the bare minimum and won't care less about people starving or freezing to death. Yes a lot of public pressure may get them to do something to help but too little too late. Plus whatever help that will be given will be criticised as "socialist" by the powerful right wing of the party. The Daily Mail today was going on about how the BBC and Martin Lewis were "catastrophising" - trying to make even this into a culture war.

And let's not even start on the climate emergency.

Posted by: Steve201 12th August 2022, 07:47 AM

Quite the quote by Matt Frei on Ch4 News tonight - Uk energy prices have increased by 215%, Germany increased by 23% and in Nationalised EDF France they have rose by just 4%, quite the contrast!

Posted by: Harve 12th August 2022, 08:40 AM

When I look at the UK headlines, they all resonate in France and no doubt across Europe, but energy, cost of living, power shortages, transport strikes, staffing and supply chain issues all seem orders of magnitude worse in the UK. Only the drought and wildfires are causing much worse problems here.

I had an accident last month and I was in an ambulance within 15 minutes and receiving treatment in hospital as soon as I arrived. It's quite scary to think how that would have gone if I was in Britain.

Posted by: Silas 12th August 2022, 10:38 AM

Anecdotal I know, but in the car with my sister just now and the dentist just called to move the appointment she booked like two months ago from September to January. JANUARY. That’s f***ing insane. Allegedly it’s some form of covid backlog but she’s had a temporary like crown thingy since the start of covid and they’ve refused to do any proper dental care throughout covid


During covid in Germany I had a damn root canal done!!!


Honestly having come back to the UK for a visit I get the feeling the wheels are falling off. It’s staggering just how much this country has declined under Johnson.

Posted by: J00prstar 12th August 2022, 12:25 PM

The wheels really are falling off. We are having to cancel a lot of plans we had (I work in health) because of funding CUTS (!) yes, you heard it right, when we are ust trying to rebuild capacity after the pandemic and to catch up on some of the work that was paused they have actually decreased our funding.

I think there isn't more outcry because at this stage after the last few years people are just burned out and don't want to believe that the government really don't care about us. If I was very cynical I would even say that the marketing around how 'the government are doing everything to get the vaccine/people safe' during covid has opened the door to people holding that belief and not being suspicious about any of the rest of it.

For me personally, it is causing me to put a pause on moving out of shared accommodation because I'm genuinely unsure if I could afford to pay all the bills myself instead of splitting. Yay!

Posted by: Rooney 12th August 2022, 02:08 PM

The current climate is horrible, but I also feel it's probably disproportionate based off location & services. Then factor all the other massive problems we have including job shortages, early retirement and inflation vs a wider of longer term problems including climate change & no jobs in the future due to people working longer it is not good. Cannot agree with tax cuts to the problems we have either, being the solutions. Unfortunately our fetish for Brexit has contributed to a lot of these problems & will continue to do so.

Posted by: Steve201 13th August 2022, 06:36 AM

Got a chipped tooth last week on a former root canal and got an apt in my dentist for the 23rd August so it’s not the same everywhere. It’s the check ups that are impossisble to get.

Posted by: slowdown73 13th August 2022, 10:02 PM

All of the problems you have highlighted are associated with having a 12 year Tory government who have focused on austerity, cuts, Brexit, undermining workers rights and promoting self-interest/greed of corporate companies like the energy firms. Things are unlikely to improve because both Sunak & Truss are advocating tax cuts but our services already don’t have enough money to function fully and further tax cuts will only mean a smaller welfare state.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 14th August 2022, 08:33 PM

Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey were throwing down some serious BARS on the energy crisis ref (and general crisis of rail/energy/water): an hour in the pub with Mick and Eddie:



🔥🔥

I see the usual billionaire owned right-wing press have started to brief against Mick with the Putin apologist smears. Won't be long before he gets accused of being an antisemite I don't doubt..

Same old TIRED tricks from a dying/dead media format.

Posted by: slowdown73 14th August 2022, 10:49 PM

Well labour have said they would scrap the energy cap price rise in October and extend the windfall tax against energy companies. It will be interesting to see what the Tories do now given they were initially opposed against the idea of a windfall tax when labour first announced it. Pressure is certainly going to build on the government and measley tax cuts is not enough to resolve this issue.

Posted by: Silas 15th August 2022, 12:29 PM

Honestly at this point I’m just waiting for the nationalists to drop the nugget of “save 3k on your energy bills by voting yes in 2023”.

Leccy prices have gone up universally across the UK but less than 2% of Scotlands energy mix is carbon based (Gas), so Scottish rate payers are subsidising rUKs poorer energy policy. Understand why the point hasn’t been made yet but it will have to be at some point in time. Having that conversation right now with some unionists has been a bit Spicy as they fluster around for literally any argument but as the price rises bite it’s gonna be a killer blow to the Union in 23.

Posted by: Smint 16th August 2022, 03:12 PM

So whilst our current lump of lard is partying it up yet again (this time in Greece) before he spends the rest of the time in a taxpayer funded stately home, Liz Truss is still coming up with that horsesh1t about tax cuttings dealing with energy bills going up. Where do you even begin? The people desperately in need pay little or no tax already and so how the hell with they afford these gargantuan increases. It will disproportinately benefit Wealthy people who can afford it anyway (or at least won't be ruined).

And the leader of the Opposition lies again about how he previously pledged to Nationalise energies which is ironic as back when he pledged there wasn't a massive appetite to nationalise but there is certainly now.

Posted by: Rooney 16th August 2022, 04:15 PM

Hadn't he said it was not the priority, rather than committing to nationalise? So not saying he would not nationalise, but also saying he would not nationalise. Still don't think nationalisaton at this stage is the right call imo, I think like Brown inferred, you could influence with the threat of nationalising the services.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 16th August 2022, 04:16 PM

Yeah, some quite interesting polling yesterday from Survation which showed that not only is the Labour policy put out yesterday itself popular, but the full way towards nationalisation is also really incredibly popular rn.



An interesting fact I learnt yesterday was this:

• Cost of bailing out energy retail companies so far in 2021 and 2022: £2.7 billion
  
• Estimated cost of nationalising energy in the UK: £2.85 billion

Posted by: slowdown73 17th August 2022, 08:24 AM

In France, energy prices have only gone up 4% and their energy firm is state owned. In Britain, our energy prices have quadrupled. It’s all about greed, profit and an incompetent government.

Posted by: Smint 17th August 2022, 12:17 PM

Was very clear in 2020 when running for Labour leader and wanted support from the left about nationalising and now saying he never made that pledge. And if not a priority when would it be? Privatisation is clearly not working and the public see that.

Posted by: Steve201 17th August 2022, 12:34 PM

What’s the option then?

Posted by: Popchartfreak 17th August 2022, 12:43 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectricit%C3%A9_de_France

French energy is subsidised by charging us and others. The company was privatised but the nuclear reactors subsidising the cost were nationalised., They bought the remaining private 16% for 5b euros.

So, I don't know how someone has come up with those figures re nationalisation but they sound a bit fanciful to say the least, as would the savings to be made by nationalisation as there has been pathetic investment in solar and wind power in the UK (and we decided to let China control a nuclear power station had the Tories followed through on their ludicrous idea).

The legal bills buying out the companies alone would be huge, and the main positive result would be the annual profits that currently go to shareholders could instead go to investing in green energy so we are not delendant on foreign fluctuations in energy and fuel prices. We live in a very windy island, it's a duh! to me. The Canary Islands have windfarms everywhere and it's much better for the environment as long as you can accept that some places might look less attractive. Nimbys used to argue oil was cheaper and flat got schemes rejected on the grounds that some tourists might not spend money if they saw tiny wind farms on the horizon. That sounds less convincing when tourists dont have money to spend to visit beaches that don't have windfarms on the horizon and the beaches are eroding due to global warming and higher sea levels and tourists getting fried from higher temps.

Posted by: Rooney 17th August 2022, 05:24 PM

Like the current Tory leadership, I think the whole campaigning and having a very small minority population of the public have an influence on the future of the country is dangerous. Clearly Truss/Sunak are not going to do half the things they say they will. Just like someone like Burnham won't either if he ever becomes an MP again.

Nationalisation is great if the Government plow the money in to let the company innovate. I get lots of people on here do not like privitatisation, but there are lots of benefits to it as well (as well as negatives) just like anything.

Posted by: Suedehead2 17th August 2022, 07:12 PM

Not sure what the benefits of privatising the energy companies has been.

Posted by: Rooney 17th August 2022, 09:11 PM

There are loads of benefits - first of is a companies efficency. I love the NHS for example and totally agree it should be state owned and a free service, but if how the service is run is a joke. There is so much administrative waste, mis-alignment between Trusts, Trusts badly managed and in loads of case an un-steamlined service. I am not talking about the doctros, nurses and surgeons, bit the back office staff. By cutting out the waste, you can re-invest in people. It's the same for the energy sector too. We had enegy at such low prices, but the problem was the model was unsustainable and ultimately the decisoons are driven by the shareholders and profit dividends.

Obviously I wasn't alive back then, but how good/badly run were the energy and train services in the 70s and 80s? Under nationalisation people would assume both the customer service would improve & they would deliver profits for the State too. I am not convinced this would be the case. Consumers would be protected by prices I totally agree - and for thr record, I am fully with train services being run by the State as the cost and system needs stripping back entirely. I think in that case, privitatisation has produced an overcomplicated mess which needs stripping back.

Posted by: Steve201 17th August 2022, 10:17 PM

If the government is having to step in and help pay poor/vulnerable peoples energy bill and rent surely it symbolises the private sector is a absolute mess?!

I would rather a nationalised service where the people can use their vote to get rid of a minister who isn’t managing the service correctly instead of some invisible rich shareholders who only care about themselves.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 17th August 2022, 10:25 PM

EXAAACTLY!!!

TIME TO NATIONALISE, NO MATTER WHAT THE EXTREMIST CENTRISTS SAY!!!

Posted by: Rooney 17th August 2022, 11:11 PM

Is privatisation the root cause of the current predicament we are in?

Look, I completely agree there are negatives to the private sector but what always irritates me is the answer to the problems is nationalisation. Like I said before, was nationalisation in the 70s and 80s successful? Feel like lots of us in this thread are in danger here or the “good old days mantra” a lot of take the the piss out of the boomers for who didn’t experience the war. To be efficient and innovate these industries need billions of funding pumped in to them, otherwise they quickly become stagnant

Posted by: Suedehead2 18th August 2022, 07:04 AM

The nationalised energy companies generally managed very well. The railways, in the latter pre-privatisation years, suffered from a deliberate lack of investment.

Posted by: Steve201 18th August 2022, 07:33 AM

Well yes privatisation clearly is just the same as in the 1920s it created a similar economy where too much power was in the hands of too few people, simple! We need a more balanced society where the major industrial utilities are owned by government for the people and the efficiencies and innovation can come from the private sector. It’s been one sided for 50 years now. There’s a lot of talk about ‘going back to the 70s’ but the economy now is more like the Lassize faire Victorian economy, I know which one I’d prefer. Efficiency and innovation are just private sector terms for job losses and cut backs.

No one is asking for a communist society just a mixed economy.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 18th August 2022, 08:41 AM

Isn't extremist centrist an oxymoron? By their very nature they tend to be cautious and able to see arguments from all sides. No-one is saying the energy companies have done a wonderful job, I think the entire country can agree on that now the chickens are coming home to roost from putting all our eggs in one "imported cheap global warming-inducing-dictator-supporting" basket. Well, those good times are gone and its time to invest in safe affordable home-made alternatives. I thought Brexit was all about "taking back control" so we can take back control and do it. But let's not delude ourselves that it will be a cheap piece of piss that can be bunged out in 12 months, this is going to need a proper costed gradual approach over 10 to 20 years.

BUT PUTTING YOUR SONG TITLES IN SHOUTY TEXT MIGHT LEAD TO CHART COMMENTARY PISS-TAKING!!

Posted by: slowdown73 18th August 2022, 10:08 AM

Very interesting how someone from Ofgem has resigned over claims the company are favouring businesses rather than consumers - Has she only just realised this?!?

The Guardian is also reporting that up to 2/3 households will be in fuel poverty by next year. That’s a shocking and alarming figure.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 18th August 2022, 12:47 PM

It's a simple equation, a one-off cost to nationalise utility companies and then cheaper energy prices throughout, and no more profit motive that then encourages the state to look to greener alternatives.

Nationalisation isn't about whatever our past form of nationalisation looked like, it's about looking to the future and not being bound by the constraints of the present by spending money (and the government will have to spend money regardless) to keep consumers afloat, but these are all short-term solutions. The private companies won't go into alternatives as long as they have regulators that just allow them to continue making more profits, nor would they even go into alternatives well-regulated as they need incentives to upend their business strategy.

plus given opinion polls it's ridiculous that neither major party is calling for it as an option.

(I don't think it's the extreme centrists who are really for privatisation, as much as they are wedded to capitalism, they have an awareness of systems not working as intended, they just find it harder to identify the causes and are cautious of change)

Posted by: Silas 18th August 2022, 01:28 PM

Private companies care only about shareholder wealth and the share price. It leads to short termism which is the biggest flaw of our entire economic model. Nothing essential to life should be beholden to the whims of shareholders who care more about a return on their investment and their dividend than if Sally at number 16 can afford her leccy bill this month.

Things like power, heat, water, transport, post, telecoms etc provide an essential Service and thus should be controlled and owned by the gov who actually are far better placed to think in long term Investments than a private company is because they have no requirement to return as much of their revenue as possible to shareholders in the form of dividends.

Public utilities can be extremely well run. Scottish Water for example is well run and is less expensive than many private providers - although it’s swings and roundabouts because it’s unmetered in like 99.99% of cases (as of 2017 less than 500 homes in Scotland were metered) so many could probably have cheaper bills with a meter

Posted by: Smint 18th August 2022, 02:35 PM

I think we can agree that the idea of saying that there is any merit at all in continuing the privatisation of fuel and rail or delaying nationalisation (other than for logistical reasons) is just smoke and mirrors to obscure the fact that the wealthiest are profiting stupidly whilst the poorest suffer. If it wasn't obvious back then, it sure is obvious now. Enough of this injustice!

Posted by: Popchartfreak 22nd August 2022, 08:42 AM

In a beautiful case of "chickens coming home to roost" Express journalists are joining a strike:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/21/journalists-at-rightwing-daily-express-set-to-strike-over-pay

Presumably in order to be consistent they will just sack the lot and hire cheaper foreigners - oh hang on, now we've taken back control that's not allowed by Brexit supporters is it? That would smack of hypocrisy. They could always poach the farm labourers they get less than journalists! Oh hang on, they don't speak English cos they've had to import Third-World labourers to pick fruit on temporary visas.

Oh dear, what on Earth can the Express do....?!

Posted by: Envoirment 22nd August 2022, 01:40 PM

Gas hitting a new high today over fears Russia will be shutting off the Nord stream gas pipe permanently. It's to be shut down for maintenance but most suspect it won't come back on. This winter is going to be horrendous.

Posted by: Steve201 22nd August 2022, 03:51 PM

Posted by: Silas 22nd August 2022, 03:51 PM

Honestly no one here believes Russia when they say they’re closing it for maintenance. It’s been flowing at 20% capacity lately purely to stop Germany filling the gas tanks so they can try to cripple the German economy in winter by turning off the Gas in a crude attempt to kill off German support for Ukraine. Storage is already at 79,5%, we can survive without any Russian gas now.

If the turn off NS1 for good then I think we’re looking at a full embargo of Russian energy being the next point of war between Hungary and the rest of the EU

Posted by: Popchartfreak 22nd August 2022, 06:27 PM

Talking of privatised utilities making billions for shareholders and not investing in infrastructure, the water companies have been under pressure from libdems and others today for sewerage being piped into the sea.

A Spokesman for OFTWAT said in an interview:

"Look the companies are not to blame! How can you expect them to dump their sewerage in a drought when the rivers and seas were full of holidaymakers, at least those rivers that hadn't dried up from lack of rain? I mean, really, be reasonable! We could hardly be expected to watch over them when we are busy making sure they have hosepipe bans from not having sorted out extra back-up hydro-storage facilities just at the moment. What's that? Hydro-storage? Yes, I mean leaks. Sorry, I meant, lakes. You're welcome. It's been months since we had a problem with sewerage being carefully released into the environment in a controlled manner. Mainly due to a lack of rain. And there has been no reported monitoring of excess levels of pollution! Sorry, I didn't catch that question? Who monitors the sewerage? Well the water companies, who else is going to have that sort of equipment, what a stupid question! And they report all is well and that's good enough for me. Thank you, I'm afraid I can't answer any more questions, just got back from the beach and I seem to have developed a dicky tummy. Must dash! Should be back in the sea tomorrow lunchtime. Me I mean, not the tummy contents! Just to clarify, I know what you media types like to misconstrue!"

Posted by: slowdown73 25th August 2022, 09:32 AM

Johnson has yesterday said Putin is to blame for record gas prices and higher energy bills in the UK. However, that's only half the story and it seems like the government are just looking for someone to blame to avoid them having to take responsibility. Yes, gas prices have increased fourfold since the war in Ukraine but other factors such as covid have also played a role and market failure is one of the biggest causes in this crisis. When energy companies are raking in record profits at the expense of record increase in prices, then we clearly have a system which is completely broken.

Posted by: Suedehead2 25th August 2022, 07:39 PM

Putin is indeed partly to blame. That doesn’t absolve the government of any responsibility to do something to help.

Posted by: Rooney 25th August 2022, 07:56 PM

It's a catch-22 though as we just kick the can down the road and don't solve the problem. I totally agree the Government have to do something, but State handouts can't just go on forever without some change somewhere. The fault here is we have taken energy for granted and use too much of it, not on about essentials here, more that people leave stuff on standby all the time, not turning lights off when not needed etc. - I don't think energy companies and the Government have done enough to educate people. Now, you can aruge this is a by-product of cheap energy, but I think there is a complete failure of the independent regulator here which does little to help consumers.

Posted by: Envoirment 25th August 2022, 09:20 PM

Energy consumption has been falling since 2005, despite the population increasing by ~7-8 million people. A lot of technologies now use much less electricity than previously and efficiencies continue to be made (TVs/Laptops/Computers/Light bubls etc). The biggest consumption of energy is most probably kettles of an evening when people have a cuppa. And I very much doubt you'll get people to reduce their tea consumption.

The biggest issue is the government and the regulator - both of which haven't done enough to ensure people are negatively effected in big ways. #

I would say the government have also kicked the can down the road regarding eletricity generation. Instead of phasing out coal for a number of renewnable resources, they pretty much put all their eggs in one basket with Gas. Renewables aren't expanding at a fast enough rate, with enough storage, to phase out fossil fuels completely (they could if the funding was there). Nuclear is another one that should've been taken more seriously as well. 4 of the UK's nuclear power stations are going offline this decade, with only 2 new ones replacing them. The others planned will likely not be built/up and running until the mid 2030s-2040s. With new nuclear power plants generating much more energy than previous generations, it would've been wise for the UK government to invest a lot more in them as it could've really helped with regards to the energy mix and reducing the exposure of the UK to fossil fuel prices. Instead, the government opted for private companies to fund and for them to take a back seat essentially. Something which has caused more headaches as investors have pulled out of projects and the UK government has allowed China to invest heavily into upcoming projects - which isn't wise at all. Another reason why energy should be nationalised.

Posted by: Harve 25th August 2022, 09:25 PM

Could be helpful to know that modern light bulbs use next-to-no energy compared to basically anything else in your home.

The main drain on your bills is going determined how much you cook and heat. The amount you save from heating your home only to 16c is enormous compared to anything you save from unplugging phantom appliances, but of course the former is dangerous for elderly people which is why this winter will be so deadly.

The amount that bills are going up in the UK means that you can adopt a behaviour that's as energy-efficient as possible all you like, that won't be enough to cover even a fraction of the price increases. I'm not saying that that they're bad practices to have or that education doesn't have its place, but it's gaslighting - no pun intended - for governments or gas companies to talk about energy-saving tips when it won't stop you being cold.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 25th August 2022, 09:43 PM

!!!! :rodl:

Sure, it's the STAND-BY TV that is causing these MONSTROUS bills, not MASSIVE TORY AND NEOLIBERAL FAILINGS!!!

JESUS H CHRIST!!!!

Posted by: Rooney 25th August 2022, 10:21 PM

Yeah there are energy saving lightbulbs, but we have millions of homes which are poorly insulated and energy saving traps. I think it is OK to say have yout heating turned on the 16C, but if you have ever lived in an old terrace house with high ceilings, it doesn't do a great job of trapping heat. Totally agree that way too many people heat their house up way too much though without fully understanding it doesn't need to be that hot!




I didn't say that Michael, but nationalisation isn't going to solve the problem and nor is the root cause private sector the problem. A large part of the problem is we have been used to burning energy (and I'll include myself in this) with cheap prices and taking it for granted - in its current format it is a finite resource. Now a lot of that is down to the fact our renweable infastructure is not where it needs to be and won't be for some time. The companies are just not regulated properly and we've got in to a situation now which has spiralled out of control through poor regulation.

Posted by: slowdown73 26th August 2022, 08:55 AM

The energy price cap has increased by 80% to £3549. If you thought that was bad enough, there are some predictions it will increase to over £6k by Apr-June 2023. For many people and not just those on low incomes, this will cause real financial hardship.

Posted by: Jessie Where 26th August 2022, 09:00 AM

Well, it's gonna by rise by 80% to £3,549 from October.

Something's really got to give.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 26th August 2022, 09:47 AM

Reason for current sorry state?

cheap imported gas for decades as an actual policy and consistently not investing in renewables. Privatisation took the pressure of the utility companies having to look for alternatives instead giving profits away to people who dabble in stock shares. Government removed incentives to go green. Chickens coming home to roost in a massive way due to Russia invading Ukraine.

Posted by: slowdown73 29th August 2022, 12:40 PM

I've just read one prediction that energy prices could top £10k next year. That is just unthinkable and extremely scary. I am already worried as I'm trying to take on a mortgage to avoid a big increase in my renting costs. Everything is going up and there is just no credible plan from either of the Tory candidates. We are not the only country facing the energy crisis but we have such an incompetent government at present that I have very little confidence that they will do anything that will be effective. A few tax cuts is not going to solve the problem and telling people to use less energy is patronising and shows how out of touch they really are.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 29th August 2022, 01:52 PM

well here's the thing - apparently the UK already produces almost enough oil and gas to meet it's own needs. Yet we export most of it and import a similar amount. It's almost as if the UK is making huge amount of cash out of it instead of using to "take back control" and make companies sell it to the UK at cost plus a bit of profit.

A few windfarms, solar farms and we might even be self-sufficient for the short term until more renewables - and we wouldnt be dependant on foreign fluctuating prices. There's no reason it should even be relevant. Except to make British companies richer at the expense of British citizens. In which case tax them heavily to compensate. Yes, they have to find further fields if we were not signing up to renewables. But we are signing up to renewables. So we can just leave future stocks under the North Sea and move on phasing it out gradually.

Or maybe I'm being too simplistic and market forces and profits are far too complex for poor people to understand, only the super-rich are smart enough to suggest national policies and the absolute need for huge profits and pollution....

Posted by: Suedehead2 29th August 2022, 04:04 PM

I don't have any objection to the government offering advice on reducing energy use. At the very least they could provide information that helps people to take decisions such as an estimate of how much it costs to light a room for an hour.

However, that advice will not be anywhere near enough for a lot of people. Johnson's attitude of "Not my problem guv" is, unfortunately, not a surprise from somebody who has never taken responsibility for anything. The fact that the next PM hasn't yet shown any sign of understanding the urgency of the problem is not encouraging.

Posted by: cider man 29th August 2022, 04:36 PM

Do you have a link for that please?

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 29th August 2022, 10:02 PM

Enjoying your Brexshit and Blojo?

Posted by: Harve 29th August 2022, 10:23 PM

What's interesting is that in the UK all the discussion seems to be about the price, whereas in most other countries it seems to be about supply, although energy prices are also rising rapidly elsewhere, if not quite as obscenely as in Britain. The French PM has asked every business to put in place a strategy to reduce energy consumption in the next month and has warned that businesses, not households, will be the first to be cut off when shortages occur.

I don't think the UK is prepared for rolling blackouts or having to ration supply this winter, and is about to elect a prime minister whose default tone seems to be optimism. Just like with Johnson there will be a recurring problem of minimising issues and avoiding telling the whole story until the problem gets too big to ignore and the costs are much higher than if action was taken earlier, and that goes for both policy problems and scandals.

Posted by: slowdown73 30th August 2022, 01:22 AM

It was actually mentioned on the BBC news a few nights ago, so I don't have a link sorry. It's probably speculation more than anything at this stage but who would have predicted a year ago we would be facing energy prices of above £5k or £6k per year and that price seems to be increasing all the time so it's certainly not out of this question that it could climb much higher.

Posted by: Envoirment 30th August 2022, 02:14 AM

That's because Russia supply a much larger amount of gas to other European countries compared to the UK. Norway makes up for the majority of the UK's gas imports (75% of our imports are from Norway). Only ~5% of gas imports were from Russia previously. Additionally, countries like Germany don't only just import Gas from Russia. They also import significant amounts of coal and oil used for electricity generation from Russia as well.

There's also the current ongoing drought in large parts of Europe which is negatively affecting other forms of electricity generation. France gets ~75% of its electricity from nuclear power generation, however with the drought a lot of stations have had to decrease output due to not enough water to cool the reactors. It's also affected hydropower throughout Europe, as a lot of rivers are running a lot lower/have dried up significantly.

Between Russia invading Ukraine and the ongoing Drought, Europe's electricity generation has been really tested/strained in such a short period of time. If there is a cold winter this year, there are going to be very bad consequences throughout, including in the UK. Black outs may become regular occurences.

Posted by: cider man 30th August 2022, 07:38 AM

Yes thanks. Sad that Boris was forced out though.

No doubt you're looking forward to Labour winning the next election. I concede now that it is likely.

Posted by: Smint 30th August 2022, 08:55 AM

That is exactly the truth - at least Sunak seems to have some concept of the problem ahead but with Truss it's stick head in the sand, rely on outdated cliches from the 80s and claim that most people are not patriotic or optimistic enough. It's not going to work - it'll be fautly populism with a very unpopular leader.

Posted by: Rooney 30th August 2022, 11:49 PM

She's going to be really popular with her Party though and core members. Maybe she thinks she can get by on this strategy in 2024 on a small-ish majority and hope the tax incentives and hope for a small vote turnout to get through a majority. She is daft so maybe she can't see where the tide is going.

Posted by: Silas 31st August 2022, 06:44 AM

To avoid fuel poverty in Shetland, you need to earn 104k

While fairly isolated, Shetland is one of the most energy rich places on the entire f***ing planet. A set of islands so windy that f***ing trees can’t grow that is surrounded by oil. And yet it has outrageous transmission charges, even tho it generates a chunk of the nations power, and is facing staggering price hikes.

The UK Grid is fundamentally broken. Transmission fees are based on utilisation not generation and so Scotland pays staggering fees compared to London and SE England, even tho Scotland is an energy exporter and those scandalous transmission fees apply to energy that is generated and then used locally. The penalty should be on consumers who chose to live far from power generation. But that would negatively impact London so it’ll never happen

Posted by: blacksquare 31st August 2022, 08:31 AM

Has there been any indication of an EU-wide cap or effort to limit costs?

Posted by: Silas 31st August 2022, 09:05 AM

That’s the closest I’ve seen from vdL. Talked a lot about using the Baltic Sea as a Wind Generator that can feed multiple countries via multiple onshore connection points

Posted by: Feel_The_Fever 1st September 2022, 12:24 AM

The cost is just crazy at the moment and extremely worrying as the rates are going up and up quicker and quicker every couple months. It just has to be capped.
Small business are getting crucified by it aswell and lots are going to lose jobs as a result. Extremely worrying times.

Posted by: Smint 1st September 2022, 11:34 AM

Not agreeing with everything Owen Jones is posting recently but this from an article about our soon-to-be PM Truss drilling for gas and oil is perfection https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/01/liz-truss-oil-gas-energy-climate-crisis

It is undoubtedly that the ideological predilections of the Tory right are prioritised above the Earth’s survival, energy independence and people’s livelihoods. Renewables are indelibly culturally associated with dangerous lefty nonsense, while gas and oil somehow represent macho British tradition. That the case for renewables is based both on pragmatic economics and incontrovertible scientific facts is irrelevant. It is hard not to conclude, too, that an addiction to waging eternal culture war is at play. Much of the behaviour of the modern right is driven by a desire to offend their opponents; like announcing they have passed wind, they want you to be aware of and disgusted by their actions.

The fact that so many people want to destroy the planet just because preservation is seen as "woke" and giving into the lefties is true although shocking. Especially as so many of them have children too.

Posted by: Daan 1st September 2022, 06:05 PM

Boris has just solved the energy crisis y’all!!1!

all you have to do apparently is buy a new kettle for £20 then you’ll make a saving of £10 per year in energy bills

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 1st September 2022, 06:21 PM

What is the best part, less money for the nhs, the cost of living crisis, Blojo getting kicked out due to incompetence and a callous disregard of normal people not in the landed gèntry, raw sewage in the water, or the energy crisis? Lol x

Posted by: Suedehead2 1st September 2022, 06:42 PM

He really couldn't make it any more obvious that he doesn't give a stuff.

Posted by: Jessie Where 3rd September 2022, 02:22 PM

Seriously, that is almost on the same level as the time his American counterpart suggested injecting yourself with bleach to treat COVID. I still can't believe it.

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 6th September 2022, 03:27 PM

Apparently, Russia state tv has been broadcasting the clip!!!! Talk about an own goal, ToryTV and Tory Shofield and Willghouny!!! I guess they should have taken selfies with Cirbyn instead

Posted by: Envoirment 6th September 2022, 06:19 PM

So rumours are that the government are going to "cut" energy prices by placing the cap at £2,500 (a rise of over £500, not really a cut) for an extended period of time, spending somewhere between £100-£150 billion. This money is going to be given to energy companies as loans which will then get payed back via consumers by adding extra costs to energy over a 15-20 year period.

Ridiculous. Spending huge amounts of money to line the pockets of energy companies at the expense of tax payers.

Posted by: Steve201 6th September 2022, 08:56 PM

Indeed, capitalists helping capitalists as usual!

Posted by: Rooney 6th September 2022, 09:01 PM

I'd wait for the details before we make an assumption - the spin doctors are masters of this and are leaking stuff to gage public opinion. Personally I feel this is needed, but also a huge mess as we are gambling that the cost of energy decreases. What happens if it increases? Seems an emormous burden on the tax payer. For the record, before anyone calls me a raging capitalist, I don't agree with the current idea being floated about.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 8th September 2022, 12:25 PM

Yeah so this £2500 price cap thing is horrific and will only be seen as acceptable because we've had months of headlines screaming about £3000, £4000, £5000, £8000*, limitless, precisely so when this comes in, it doesn't seem too bad. Still way more than average energy prices in past years, it will break the banks of the worst-off, because £200 a month is quite a lot when you're already cash-strapped.

The worst thing about it is how it's being paid for, in terms of taxes down the road. Now of course that's what all borrowing is and it can be a good long-term economic strategy... if it's to promote investment. This doesn't do that, this moves back our reliance on traditional energy sources and does little to invest in green/nuclear (particularly with the fracking ban lifted at the same time). Basically, this is emergency taxing that will make people pay more in the long-run without attributing it to this crisis, quite possibly not under a Tory government. Convenient for them.

Worst is of course that Truss is deliberately choosing to not utilise a windfall tax which would alleviate some of the future financial pressure off the backs of the people. But of course she wouldn't do that.

*using average price payments always gets people confused, I bet there will be people legitimately thinking that the government has sorted it so that their energy bills literally can't go over £2500 now

Posted by: slowdown73 8th September 2022, 08:19 PM

Once again, the Tories are protecting the energy firms by choosing not to push for a windfall tax and instead borrowing from public funds. £2500 is still a considerable hike on where bills were 12-18 months ago and many on low incomes will inevitably be faced with dire choices this winter.

Posted by: slowdown73 9th September 2022, 09:34 PM

Well the EU is looking at clawing back excess profits via a windfall tax from energy companies so this really shows up the UK’s position by failing to put consumers first rather than energy firms.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 9th September 2022, 10:00 PM

Yes, overshadowed by recent events - but I totally agree Iz, the that way the narrative has shifted on this is quite remarkable. Notable also that Truss worked for sHELL between 1996 and 2000. It's also worth stating that the est. obscene profits of ~£170bn that energy companies in the oil and gas industry are expected to make haven't been as a result of innovation or investment, much of it has been created indirectly as a consequence of Putin weaponising the energy market in Europe (on which many European nations are highly reliant upon) to counterbalance his stalling military assault on a soverign nation. Unfortunately Putin's strategy is likely to be quite effective due to a combination of our changing climate and bad luck, for example the drought in Europe has meant that France's nuclear capacity has fallen with lower water/river levels to cool nuclear reactors, and similarly Norway's hydroelectricity capacity for the same reason has also been reduced... so the UK has actually been a net EXPORTER of energy this summer which is quite rare.

Anyway, there was one occasion where London had to pay nearly https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-07-25/london-s-record-9-724-54-per-megawatt-hour-to-avoid-a-blackout to narrowly dodge a blackout. Expect more of that.. and if there are load shedding events to come this winter, let's hope the National Grid are less incompetent than they were in 2019 when an offshore wind farm suddenly dropped off the grid: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49302996

Furthermore, we were told in 2010 that a national debt-to-GDP ratio of 60% was a crisis that required a dramatic austerity programme to 'balance the books' - which incidentally made the lives of many people, those who need the greatest support in our society, thoroughly miserable for the best part of a decade.. and yet it now stands at 100% and 'oh, it's fine - don't worry, we can just write a blank cheque of £150bn to the esurient energy companies.'

It's thin gruel.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 24th October 2022, 03:37 PM

Worth mentioning that a combination of unseasonably mild weather in Europe (20-25C across France this week) and increasing LPG coming on-stream has led to future gas prices falling considerably.. good news for energy prices/inflation in the long term going in to the winter and 2023.

Bad news for Putin, losing the only leverage he has over the west (now nobody is buying his nuclear threat).

Posted by: Silas 25th October 2022, 07:51 AM

It’s warm right across the board, we’re on 20 as far north/east as Berlin. Normally this would set alarm bells ringing for the climate, as it should, but this year in particular I think many are really hoping for a warm winter

Posted by: Doctor Blind 27th October 2022, 11:59 AM

The weather firmly sticking two fingers up at Putin today, widely 23-25C across France, and highs of 20-21 C expected in London today.

Posted by: neill2407 27th October 2022, 01:01 PM

Shell have announced record profits again at a time when the Tory government may well be looking at imposing further austerity measures and tax rises for the general public. This was a mess they created in terms of the black hole and once again the public are being expected to foot the bill rather than the companies who are part of the problem.

Posted by: Envoirment 27th October 2022, 08:27 PM

We've been quite lucky. Most long range weather/climate models are predicting a warmer than average rest of the autumn/winter period for most of Europe. Not that there won't be any cold snaps, but for the most part it'll likely be above average.

Posted by: Steve201 8th November 2022, 08:45 AM

There’s no way you can predict weather 10 days further ahead so I wouldn’t hold my breath!

Posted by: Rooney 16th November 2022, 10:41 PM

Peston has just said average bills will be £3k from April as a rough guide (slightly lower than the Cornwall Insight I think?) but not much on how to protect the most vulnerable. Sounds a bit grim.

Posted by: neill2407 17th November 2022, 10:09 AM

Yes, I read that in the Guardian today and looks like no extra support for most people unless you are on benefits. I think there will be many people who are going to struggle including businesses with rising costs of energy, food, mortgages and council tax bills. One of the main drivers of inflation is energy bill rises so I cannot see how inflation is going to fall unless the government address this!

Posted by: Smint 17th November 2022, 08:56 PM

BTW for second month in a row I got £66 pounds off meaning my energy bill is like £12. That's an error in my favour right? Because if not I'm quite liking the new energy regime- last month had a credit balance!

Posted by: creepy chris 18th November 2022, 07:07 PM

No it's not an error. We got £66 too. Every home, regardless of status or income, gets £400 but in instalments until March. So Oct to March, 6 times 66 would be £396. Last one in March will be £70.

Posted by: Christmasteve201 16th December 2022, 08:29 AM

People in NI will prob get this by mid summers day 🥶

Posted by: Sausage Rollo 16th December 2022, 11:14 AM

In Ireland, we are getting 200 euro credits on electricity bills in October, December and February, so 600 euros in total.

Posted by: Smint 16th December 2022, 03:11 PM

Thanks - I understand that now - I was just really confused with all the horror stories out there that for the last 3 months my bills were negative balance, then £12, then £24. However, I've turned my heating on this month and my provider has emailed to say prices are going up from January's bill so maybe next month I might get that scared (and switch my heating off!)

Posted by: Doctor Blind 7th April 2024, 03:07 PM

Due to the strong winds and sunshine across the UK at the moment we are generating over 75% of the national grid demand in the UK from renewables.
The UK's wind generation capacity is actually over 30GW so we're not at capacity, the current record of 21.9GW was achieved in December 2023. Not sure how much solar capacity we have but wind is generally king.

Also the price per MWh is currently minus £25..



Btw: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/end-to-coal-power-brought-forward-to-october-2024. Ending a run of 142 consecutive years where coal has been used to generate electricity in the UK.

Posted by: Silas 7th April 2024, 03:40 PM

Really excited for the day when Nuclear and Pumped Hydro take the role of Coal and Gas as the peak time fast reactive power plants

Posted by: Envoirment 7th April 2024, 04:59 PM

Good news. Doggebank B should become fully operational this year which will add a signiciant chunk of capacity. A few more wind farms are to come online in 2025/2026 as well. Plus there are a lot in the planning stage, a number of which should get approved/constructed and be online by the end of the decade.

In terms of solar capacity, it slowed down quite a bit between 2017-2021 (capacity increased from ~12.6GW to 13.9GW, a paltry increase of 1.3GW, in part due to Government and covid), but has picked back up and increased to 15.6 GW by the end of 2023 (increase of 1.7 GW in just 2 years). It's expected to increase by 2+ GW this year alone so is picking up quite significantly. Project Fortress in Kent, which will be the biggest solar farm project in the UK so far, should become complete/operational by the end of the year. There are a number of larger projects in the proposal/consultation stages, some of which should hopefully be finished/get approval by the end of this year/early 2025.

Hopefully Labour will help to accelerate the progress currently being made if they get into power in the next election.