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 On Your Radar (4th Studio Album Discussion) (Part 2), Continue the discussion! |
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 19th December 2011, 07:26 PM
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#221
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 "Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,456 User: 3,217 
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I think it boils down to them not being that passionate about it all, to be honest. They seem to do as much as they feel is required, and enjoy the perks along the way!
I don't lay total blame with the girls themselves, as I get the feeling their management/label have a similar mentality - just bumble along and hope they do reasonably well, rather than really push things further & strive to reach full potential. Any mention of the US just seems daft to me, because I don't think they've ever demonstrated properly how they could possibly commit to that. It'd be 100 times the work load. I just don't see it. I don't actually begrudge the girls taking a 2 week break if that's what they want / feel they deserve. If they feel they can afford to take a fortnight off and not think about the fortunes of their album, then that's the choice they've made. They'll only get out of this era what they put in, and if that's nothing for another month, then fine! I'm starting to feel tired of being disappointed for them, and am beginning to think I should just accept the current level they're at. If The Saturdays & their team are (seemingly) relaxed about it, then perhaps the fans should ease off too. We buy their records, support them and show our passion, it's all we can do. At the end of the day, they are masters of their own destinies! So in a nutshell... I'm going to try and relax and not get too worked up or frustrated over how they do, ha. |
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19th December 2011, 08:29 PM
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#222
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 12 December 2009
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Shaddow you're talking complete nonsense.
Do you think it's possible to shoot a video when most production companies are on their Christmas breaks? It's not just The Saturdays that are taking their Christmas break too you know. It's not always possible to do things in the 'spur of the moment' or plan a video the day before and shoot in the next day. It just doesn't work like that. Weeks of planning goes into a video shoot. Set, script, lighting, styling, story boarding... Who ever says they haven't worked their assess of this year is delusional. 2 tours, 3 single campaigns, and an album to promote during a single release, tour rehearsals and the actual tour.. Frankie was hospitalized, Una's pregnant, if anything they need this 2wks off more than ever to re-gain some normality in their lives. By no means am I trying to make their un-performing album justifiable because in theory it shouldn't be under-performing, but failings in their management and label have contributed a huge part in the under-performance. It's tiring reading your posts, slagging the girls off "they should be doing more" blah blah blah. I'd like to see you get up on stage every night and try to perform on an early morning TV show to promote the LP... Like Jay said, everyone needs to relax and stop over-dramatizing everything. |
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19th December 2011, 09:08 PM
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#223
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 24 November 2009
Posts: 9,236 User: 10,059
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Do you think it's possible to shoot a video when most production companies are on their Christmas breaks? It's not just The Saturdays that are taking their Christmas break too you know. It's not always possible to do things in the 'spur of the moment' or plan a video the day before and shoot in the next day. It just doesn't work like that. Weeks of planning goes into a video shoot. Set, script, lighting, styling, story boarding...
Well they should have had a video shot before the Christmas breaks then. Simple. Did they honestly think My Heart Takes Over alone would keep this album selling over Christmas and into the New Year? They weren't prepared for this album flopping and it shows, which you'd think they would be considering what happened to Wordshaker. If they can't shoot a video, i'm sure it's alot less hassle to send a song to radio and have some build up for when the video is eventually released. If they can't send the song to radio, they should try book a signing after Christmas. They should be doing anything they can, and using every option to their advantage. Maybe it's a bit harsh to blame the girls, and this is the fault of their management, but whoever is in charge of this campaign is doing a bloody awful job and when the album is out of the charts completely in a few weeks and the fourth single gets cancelled/underperforms/does nothing for the album we'll have everyone on here saying "they should have done this, they should have done that". I'm saying it NOW before anything else goes wrong. Who ever says they haven't worked their assess of this year is delusional. 2 tours, 3 single campaigns, and an album to promote during a single release, tour rehearsals and the actual tour.. Frankie was hospitalized, Una's pregnant, if anything they need this 2wks off more than ever to re-gain some normality in their lives Two VERY SHORT tours. Yes, they worked hard on rehearsals and they put on a great show at the actual dates but at the end of the day other artists have much bigger productions, much more complicated routines, much more travelling and much more dates and still seem to be more enthusiastic and hard working than the girls. Their choreography is very limited and aside from Frankie and Vanessa they never give it 100% on their dancing. 3 single campaigns? That's their job - to promote! Are we congratulating them on going on TV and doing a 3 minute performance? They were fantastic on the promo for the first two singles but the third single was a joke and they looked bored and disinterested. Frankie wasn't hospitalised until November so that's no excuse for their laziness this year. By no means am I trying to make their un-performing album justifiable because in theory it shouldn't be under-performing, but failings in their management and label have contributed a huge part in the under-performance. It's tiring reading your posts, slagging the girls off "they should be doing more" blah blah blah. I'd like to see you get up on stage every night and try to perform on an early morning TV show to promote the LP... I'm not slagging them off. I'm trying to be constructive. I want the girls to be the best they can be, and I want them to get the success that their material deserves but it seems like The Sats just rely on their fanbase alone to get them success. They moan about not getting the attention they deserve but when it comes to it they treat their careers as 9-5 jobs that don't really need anything extra from the girls once they've completed their commitments. |
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19th December 2011, 09:22 PM
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#224
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 3 December 2006
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If nothing else their management should have at least sent one of their songs to radio to at least get things rolling and to make sure people haven't 'forgotten' them, they could always put out a video in the new year but there's no harm sending a song for radio adds at this point, hopefully it would take and people would go buy the album.
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19th December 2011, 10:03 PM
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#225
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 March 2006
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You can send a song to radio, but unless they are 100% sure thats going to be a single then there is no point. The things is radio hasn't exsactly loves The Saturdays much this year, and with MHTO and OYR both being massive disasters in the charts, radio don't actualy have an indication that the public wants to hear The Saturdays so probably wouldn't even playlist the next single or if they did it would get very limited airplay.
There is only so much that can be done at this time of year, most promo slots are going to be booked up now, and most shows are doing round ups of the year so are going to want big stars. It is a shame they didn't get a christmas special on ITV this year, that would have been nice. I think the managment (and probably The Sats) were too reliant on what The X Factor slot was going to do as a boost for the album and the single, and get bumped off of that threw their plans into disary. There just hasn't seemed to be much promo with anything this year. Everything has seemed a bit half arsed. I am not sure where the problem actualy lies. |
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19th December 2011, 10:18 PM
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#226
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 12 December 2009
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The thing is with radio, if they send the single to radio's too soon they loose their maximum 'release week' potential (which is exactly what has happened to the 3 singles from On Your Radar). It would be more economical for them to release the video first (for example) followed by radio play, as they are severely lacking in the radio play department. At least that way the stations would see "Oh this is released in 3wks, better start playing this!" Instead of "Oh this is released in 6wks, it can wait a bit" because that is exactly what had happened with Notorious and All Fired Up, both peaked then started falling down the airplay chart, then re-peaking a little higher during release week. This also effected their chart run's in the Singles chart. It all has a knock-on effect. Of course then as well when radio starts to play the single 6wks before release, they're also loosing their maximum exposure and sales for the actual release week. Clear examples of this are Higher and Ego, this is why a much shorter gap between radio playing it and it actually being released would benefit them. I'm not talking about on air/on sale but on post-album singles this would be a better model for the Saturdays in particular.
QUOTE(shadow2009 @ Dec 19 2011, 09:08 PM)  Do you think it's possible to shoot a video when most production companies are on their Christmas breaks? It's not just The Saturdays that are taking their Christmas break too you know. It's not always possible to do things in the 'spur of the moment' or plan a video the day before and shoot in the next day. It just doesn't work like that. Weeks of planning goes into a video shoot. Set, script, lighting, styling, story boarding... Well they should have had a video shot before the Christmas breaks then. Simple. Did they honestly think My Heart Takes Over alone would keep this album selling over Christmas and into the New Year? They weren't prepared for this album flopping and it shows Yes they did think My Heart Takes Over would keep the album selling through the Christmas and New Year period. It was their "winter warmer" as they called it. Therefore no, they weren't prepared for the album flopping (you're right there) so they probably didn't even think about the follow up single when they had the album to promote, rehearsals for the tour, the actual tour, and Frankie's illness and Una's health to keep on top of. QUOTE(shadow2009 @ Dec 19 2011, 09:08 PM) Who ever says they haven't worked their assess of this year is delusional. 2 tours, 3 single campaigns, and an album to promote during a single release, tour rehearsals and the actual tour.. Frankie was hospitalized, Una's pregnant, if anything they need this 2wks off more than ever to re-gain some normality in their lives Two VERY SHORT tours. Yes, they worked hard on rehearsals and they put on a great show at the actual dates but at the end of the day other artists have much bigger productions, much more complicated routines, much more travelling and much more dates and still seem to be more enthusiastic and hard working than the girls. Their choreography is very limited and aside from Frankie and Vanessa they never give it 100% on their dancing. 3 single campaigns? That's their job - to promote! Are we congratulating them on going on TV and doing a 3 minute performance? They were fantastic on the promo for the first two singles but the third single was a joke and they looked bored and disinterested. Frankie wasn't hospitalised until November so that's no excuse for their laziness this year. Every artist is different, they. 're not all suited to the same campaigns and designed around the same basis that say Rihanna and Beyonce are on for example. I think a lot of people forget that The Saturdays are singers who 'can' (sort of) dance. Congratulating them? Erm, they did the promotion, and they got on some decent shows and their usual trip round the daytime one's. What's to complain about? The timing of the promotion, yes but they promoted. They can't help if another artist has already booked a slot they wanted. They take what they can get, just like any other artist. The fact that they've slipped under the radar this year though has lead to them getting some very shoddy times though, for example the 11pm performance of My Heart Takes Over on Children In Need when in 2009 they where the opening act cause they did the charity single. How things have changed. They may be 3 minute performances, but it takes hours of prep for that "3 minute performance". Stop making out as if everything is viable because the a tour is only a "short one" or a performance is only for "3 minutes" etc. Hours of prep go into these things to make sure they're executed correctly on the day and are up to a decent level. Which brings me onto the next thing.. Regarding your comment about them looking "bored" for the My Heart Takes Over campaign, what do you want them to do on stage? Look happy and jump for joy singing a sad ballad? At the start of the campaign they had some sort of routine but as soon as people where like "What on earth are they doing, the swapping places looks hideous, they should just use mic stands instead!" they ditched the 'routine' (swapping places) and bought in the mic stands, and then people complained they look bored! Can't win. The whole thing was a bizarre choice of single for me anyway. Poor Mollie and Frankie didn't even get to sing anything during that campaign, even when they performed it live! It was only about half-way through the campaign when they added Una's harmony into the chorus's! I'd be pretty pissed if I was made to mime along to a backing track that wasn't even me singing it (Ina, cough) when my other band mates got harmonies at least. QUOTE(shadow2009 @ Dec 19 2011, 09:08 PM) I'm not slagging them off. I'm trying to be constructive. I want the girls to be the best they can be, and I want them to get the success that their material deserves but it seems like The Sats just rely on their fanbase alone to get them success. They moan about not getting the attention they deserve but when it comes to it they treat their careers as 9-5 jobs that don't really need anything extra from the girls once they've completed their commitments. Of course they rely on their fan base to purchase their product. What artist doesn't? They have tried this year in particular to broaden their audience by doing the whole euro/dance track thing (All Fired Up) which at first seemed like it was going to be a huge success as it attracted many more buyers, actually more than their core fan base. For example, going from opening with 70k for All Fired Up to 20-something-k for My Heart Takes Over 2 months later, where had what they achieved with All Fired Up gone? Where had those casual buyers they attracted gone? To put it simply, it tells me the people who brought All Fired Up would rather them stick to the dance sound. It has worked more for them than going down the ballad route did this year. I did disagree with them for steering outside of their sound earlier this year with 'All Fired Up' but looking back now I was wrong, it tells me that they widened their audience, and it was one of their more consistent radio friendly hits. Something that what we presumed 'My Heart Takes Over' would do even better...  If they saw their jobs as 9-5 jobs, they wouldn't be getting up at 4am in the morning for early morning TV calls, or staying till 2am in the morning on video shoots. That's a bit of a silly remark really isn't it? What else are they going to do after they've "completed their commitments" ? Go home of course and try and find that balance of pop star / normal life. What do you want them to do after they've "finished their commitments" ? Go and busk in local shopping center's ? Again, I know if I was a pop star once I'd finished my commitments for the day I'd want to go home to my family, put the kettle on and watch Eastenders. Wouldn't you? I feel people are always expecting too much from them, and I've been guilty of this in the past. But that isn't something that bothers me anymore because they're music is brilliant and I buy it. So they win me over. |
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19th December 2011, 10:32 PM
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#227
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 24 November 2009
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2ndAdventure i've gave up responding because i've completely lost track of the discussion and you've completely twisted my points and taken them all literally.
I'm standing by my first point that The Sats ARE very lazy and stick to the bare minimum, and there is no way in hell they're going to break Europe if they're this laid back in the UK. |
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19th December 2011, 10:54 PM
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#228
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 29 September 2007
Posts: 2,632 User: 4,429
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another happy day in The Saturdays Forum...
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19th December 2011, 11:08 PM
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#229
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 13,207 User: 66
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QUOTE(missingyou @ Dec 19 2011, 10:54 PM) another happy day in The Saturdays Forum... It makes me very sad, it is so angry in here. |
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19th December 2011, 11:49 PM
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#230
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 9 January 2010
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QUOTE(Martyn @ Dec 19 2011, 11:08 PM) It makes me very sad, it is so angry in here. Same here. Catching up on the posts gave me a slight headache too! 
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20th December 2011, 01:40 AM
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#231
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 I was born 7 million years ago in Sweden, Africa
Joined: 4 October 2010
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Really grown to love 'Do What You Want With Me' since the tour and 'Faster'. That was the album track with the best reaction at Wembley.
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20th December 2011, 03:09 AM
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#232
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BuzzJack Climber
Joined: 13 September 2010
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Lol yeah 2nd Adventure you've completely derailed and you're not going to back down whatsover when it's pretty obvious what shadow is saying and those excuses are just excuses silly. Oh no, sitting in hair and make up to prepare for a performance...so what? lol. Everyone does that too with more rigorous routines. The girls have gotten complacent, it's a fact and it's showing. People will voice their complains because it's true.
They've never gone the extra mile to show their passion for what they do. They've always done just enough and taken a break. What they did this year is nothing, sorry but they have not worked hard to the bone because they don't have a drive to be truly successful and on top of their game. Even Girls Aloud for Christ sake lol. They had major exposure YET, they're work ethic is higher than the Sats. Some of their routines on their tours are truly athletic. And their stage presence is just of a different standard. The Saturdays have a long way to go but I highly they're ever going to fulfill that road. Yes I'm pessimistic at the moment but I'm not gonna sugarcoat the missing ingredient in The Sats success - Hunger for success and not being satisfied. Lets put it this way. If ALL five girls had Una's work ethic and passion, this discussion wouldn't exist. Frankie doesn't even utilize the bloody half million followers she has on twitter to tell them to buy the album or single. Only on the odd occasion and it's like wtf? Do you not care? Little things like that they don't even consider doing cos they reckon they've made it big time already. This post has been edited by Jaynote: 20th December 2011, 03:15 AM |
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20th December 2011, 12:50 PM
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#233
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 12 December 2009
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I was just depicting what was being said...
 This is what I mean about people expecting too much from them, and the comparisons to Girls Aloud don't help. The Saturdays are singers who can sort of dance, un-like Girls Aloud who where very much all-rounders and what they did. Again, people expect too much. I agree The Sats have a long way to go yet, but I think they're quite humble and content at the pace things are going (career wise, not sales or any of that lark). I think this because they've said that they still need to break the UK, before they go anywhere else (however even if the opportunity orrises to go over-seas then I think they'll take it regardless). They seem quite chuffed that for their 4th album they've been able to co-write it, whilst preparing for 2 tours. I don't get what you mean when you say about their work ethic. Surely their job is for their management to organize their day, what they're performing on, rehearsals for it etc etc; The Sats turn up and do it. Are you implying that the girls need to do more things to promote themselves out-side of work, ie go and busk in shopping center's? I'm not sure what you're getting at there. I'm not trying to insert any 'angryness' in here by the way to the people concerned. It's come off the wrong way. This post has been edited by 2ndAdventure: 20th December 2011, 12:52 PM |
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20th December 2011, 01:17 PM
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#234
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BuzzJack Climber
Joined: 13 September 2010
Posts: 119 User: 11,837
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Nope not busking. I mentioned the tweet thing for example and how many followers and they have and how they don't utilize it at all. Even their weekly videos of the vlogs they used to do more often for longer lengths just don't exist anymore. And you shouldn't have to not expect too much from musicians lol. That's ridiculous. They should always be outdoing your expectations if they're truly driven and should be all rounders and aim to be unstoppable.
At this current state I would say Nadine is a better vocalist than Vanessa. Soo much more constant and she has great range. Sarah shouts a bit but nonetheless her and Rochelles consistancy is pretty much even though I prefer Rochelle's voice. Una is what gives the sats an edge because she's another strong vocalist whereas Nicola doesn't really match up, nor do Cheryl and Kimberly but really they're not THAT different vocally are they now? So why shouldn't the Saturdays be all round performers as well? Just another silly excuse. They should work more on their stage presence and routines because aside from Vanessa's pre 2009/2010 ad libs (which are barely done these days) I'm sure any girl band can sing their songs and do their dance routines a lot stronger than the girls do unfortunately. You shouldn't think as an artist "Well I'm a sort a singer and not an all rounder so I'll settle on that" wtf lol. It should be "My dancing is my weakest point, let me strengthen it"..looking at you Una (Though she tries very hard tbh). Or "My vocals need strengthening and I should shy away from going into head voice for all the chest notes I record in studio and abandon live" - Ms Frankie (denial). And Mollie's a combination of both. Sub par vocals and average dancing. There are girls out there would work a lot harder and improve themselves. The Saturdays are complacent. Like Diddy said, "There's always someone out there who's willing to take your spot". And you should never be content with anywhere you are, always strive for more. This post has been edited by Jaynote: 20th December 2011, 01:34 PM |
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20th December 2011, 01:30 PM
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#235
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🙄
Joined: 14 February 2010
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I have a hangover so I speak for everyone here
SHUT UP. |
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20th December 2011, 01:50 PM
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#236
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,456 User: 3,217
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I think the fans need a 2 week break off from The Saturdays too.
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20th December 2011, 01:58 PM
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#237
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swimming in the stars
Joined: 20 August 2010
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I wonder what will happen now the tour is over. Album barely makes 40k this week
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20th December 2011, 02:29 PM
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#238
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 12 December 2009
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QUOTE(lee wallace @ Dec 20 2011, 01:30 PM) I have a hangover so I speak for everyone here SHUT UP.  there's nothing wrong with having a debate. QUOTE(Jaynote @ Dec 20 2011, 01:17 PM) Nope not busking. I mentioned the tweet thing for example and how many followers and they have and how they don't utilize it at all. Even their weekly videos of the vlogs they used to do more often for longer lengths just don't exist anymore. And you shouldn't have to not expect too much from musicians lol. That's ridiculous. They should always be outdoing your expectations if they're truly driven and should be all rounders and aim to be unstoppable. At this current state I would say Nadine is a better vocalist than Vanessa. Soo much more constant and she has great range. Sarah shouts a bit but nonetheless her and Rochelles consistancy is pretty much even though I prefer Rochelle's voice. Una is what gives the sats an edge because she's another strong vocalist whereas Nicola doesn't really match up, nor do Cheryl and Kimberly but really they're not THAT different vocally are they now? So why shouldn't the Saturdays be all round performers as well? Just another silly excuse. They should work more on their stage presence and routines because aside from Vanessa's pre 2009/2010 ad libs (which are barely done these days) I'm sure any girl band can sing their songs and do their dance routines a lot stronger than the girls do unfortunately. You shouldn't think as an artist "Well I'm a sort a singer and not an all rounder so I'll settle on that" wtf lol. It should be "My dancing is my weakest point, let me strengthen it"..looking at you Una (Though she tries very hard tbh). Or "My vocals need strengthening and I should shy away from going into head voice for all the chest notes I record in studio and abandon live" - Ms Frankie (denial). And Mollie's a combination of both. Sub par vocals and average dancing. There are girls out there would work a lot harder and improve themselves. The Saturdays are complacent. Like Diddy said, "There's always someone out there who's willing to take your spot". And you should never be content with anywhere you are, always strive for more. I see your point better now. What you're saying though is a brilliant theory, and what they should be like, but everyone's different. None of us have lived a day in their shoes (or have we?). I think their stage presence in general on the All Fired Up tour has been really good. Every tour has a script to follow, but there have been moments too where they've improvised (for example last night when the fan through the boxer shorts on stage saying "Una kiss my bum" and they made a joke out of that. When Rochelle announced Una's engagement and they had an emotional moment. It just shows you that these girls aren't completely controlled and devoid of sentiment. Not that you've said that, I'm just giving it my perspective) The comparisons with Girls Aloud are a bit dull if I'm honest. You're saying that because they share similar vocal talents they should be "all round performers" too? That's what I'm reading here. Girls Aloud are a great package I agree, they really do get an A+ for their tours because although both groups are vocally similar (like you said), Girls Aloud have always been better at the dancing and with their audience interaction. It's all about personal taste though at the end of the day, I'd rather go and see Girls Aloud concert but musically I prefer The Saturdays. They're not trained dancers (apart from Frankie I think?) so it's not something that comes naturally to them, it's not just a case of working more harder at it. I've found that they've learnt to sync more with each other over time. If you look at one of their routines from the very start of their career to now, they may be a little more complex but at least they're getting the grasp of being in sync with each other more than they where before. It's not something that comes over night to anyone, everyone has a different learning pace. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes it takes a few lessons. I'm not making excuses but quite a rational explanation from my experience. I agree about their flips though, they're too scripted now and they where brilliant how they used to be. Too short as well like you said. They used to hammer Twitter to death promoting their music but then started getting labeled as Twitter whores (The Missing You campaign - shudder). I agree they're quite replaceable but overall they produce some brilliant pop music. 
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 20th December 2011, 02:56 PM
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#239
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 29 September 2007
Posts: 2,632 User: 4,429
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QUOTE(-Jay- @ Dec 20 2011, 01:50 PM) I think the fans need a 2 week break off from The Saturdays too. So true... |
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20th December 2011, 03:56 PM
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#240
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🙄
Joined: 14 February 2010
Posts: 53,654 User: 10,643
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It's giving me a headache..
At least the management have done something sensibile! All Fired Up reduced to 59p! Looks like it might make 200,000 after all! |
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