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 EU Referendum Discussion, Thursday 23rd June |
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 10th April 2016, 09:32 PM
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#61
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272 
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Apr 10 2016, 10:16 PM)  Good point - the whole we don't want to be ruled by Westminster mantra but perfectly happy to allow Brussels to have some control. I expect the SNP will be urging people to vote 'Leave' for this very reason. The cult of SNP is a weird one indeed. Every SNP MP has declared their support for remaining in the EU. Your reason for suggesting they would do otherwise is just like questioning why so many former members of the Soviet bloc (and the Soviet Union itself) are now in the EU. |
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10th April 2016, 09:36 PM
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#62
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 is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Apr 10 2016, 10:09 PM) I think support for independence might increase if we leave the EU though. Which would be deeply ironic in some ways, but fairly understandable. Maybe, but I think with the collapse in oil price it'll still be a no. |
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10th April 2016, 10:13 PM
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#63
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 DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Andr00w @ Apr 10 2016, 10:36 PM) Maybe, but I think with the collapse in oil price it'll still be a no. You'd think, but somehow that hasn't stopped support for independence staying exactly where it was 18 months ago, if not a little higher. |
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10th April 2016, 10:14 PM
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#64
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 10 2016, 10:32 PM) Every SNP MP has declared their support for remaining in the EU. Your reason for suggesting they would do otherwise is just like questioning why so many former members of the Soviet bloc (and the Soviet Union itself) are now in the EU. Much less applicable though, given they get a say in the EU whereas they absolutely didn't in the Soviet Union. Short of maybe Wings, Craig Murray and the most devoted of Cybernats, I'm not sure how many Nats would go so far as to suggest Scotland's under some Sovietesque thumb. |
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11th April 2016, 08:15 AM
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#65
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Cur poids plume
Joined: 3 November 2007
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Apr 10 2016, 10:09 PM) I think support for independence might increase if we leave the EU though. Which would be deeply ironic in some ways, but fairly understandable. If the UK goes as far as voting to leave, I'd strongly consider voting to leave the UK. |
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14th April 2016, 11:01 AM
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#66
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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Corbyn speaks! About bloody time. Ok he used the phrase "the Labour Party" a lot rather than "I" but his speech put up a decent case for staying in the EU. It also showed how hypocritical the Tories are and underlined how much worse we would be off giving the tax evading powerful rich even more power over those of us who are powerless. You cant trust people who are financed by the wealthy to do anything other than pay lip service and toss a few PR bones to the media in order to get re-elected.
One idiot labour out supporter was rambling on about higher education being unaffected by leaving the EU - well duuuuh! - and then managed to infer that young people needed persuading of the error of their pro EU opinions by older wiser people who know better. Dont know which parrallel universe hes been living in but i can recall perfectly clearly what life in the UK was like pre EU, post EU and now. It was a world of abject poverty for the poor compared to now. It was a world where racists were complaining about being swamped by foreigners - largely people from countries the UK invaded and took over - and now the children of immigrants are stupidly moaning ^the same tenuous arguments. MORONS! We have a low birth rate and an ageing population. Foreigners always get the blame. Its what the rich do. Who caused all of our ills? Bloody British politicians for the most part. Especially those on their knees servicing the rich and powerful who bankrupted the world and have yet to even say sorry for doing it. |
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21st April 2016, 03:13 PM
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#67
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
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Great article in todays Guardian showing the Polish communities point of view -
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...liticians-press |
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21st April 2016, 09:22 PM
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#68
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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good article. I work with EU nationals (they get employed because they are well educated and conscientious), I have EU friends working over here (they aren't on benefits, they work all the live-long day and evening to make a living to get by, often in jobs UK nationals turn their noses up at as beneath them, busy as they are sat at home watching daytime TV on widescreen TV's).
Employers love well-educated young EU nationals and chasing them out of the country isn't going to help, not least because the pension-age generation need young tax payers with young families, as do those on benefits living off the state by choice. Yes, they exist, know plenty of them too....all British funnily enough. |
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21st April 2016, 11:15 PM
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#69
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
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I work in the social housing sector and had to turn away a oldish(looked around 50) Bulgarian man because he had no proof of his employment during his years working in the uk and so wasn't entitled to help in the social housing sector more importantly for him tonight he had nowhere to stay and so without benefits couldn't stay in a decent hostel (if any hostels are really great) and had to just advise him to go to the local Salvation Army crash shelter which I hate advising people to do
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22nd April 2016, 12:06 PM
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#70
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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So Boris thinks Obama expressing an impartial opinion on the UK EU vote is hypocritical?
OK, so the USA is nothing like the EU - one is a collection of member states with a single currency, and laws and legislation they govern themselves by, but with reference to basic human rights agreed by member states and a central court, while having one member state with a union jack flag who lives offshore from the rest of the mainland, and while many people in the member states complain about immigrants and the centralised decision-making powers castrating the individual states, some of whom are poorer and less populous than wealthier and more urbanised and populous states who nd to dominate. The other one is the EU. So no reason to believe Obama knows anything then and we should pay no attention to potential and actual important trading partners.... Johnson is another word for something else... |
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22nd April 2016, 07:23 PM
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#71
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Apr 22 2016, 01:06 PM) So Boris thinks Obama expressing an impartial opinion on the UK EU vote is hypocritical? OK, so the USA is nothing like the EU - one is a collection of member states with a single currency, and laws and legislation they govern themselves by, but with reference to basic human rights agreed by member states and a central court, while having one member state with a union jack flag who lives offshore from the rest of the mainland, and while many people in the member states complain about immigrants and the centralised decision-making powers castrating the individual states, some of whom are poorer and less populous than wealthier and more urbanised and populous states who nd to dominate. The other one is the EU. So no reason to believe Obama knows anything then and we should pay no attention to potential and actual important trading partners.... Johnson is another word for something else... We don't have a like button yet, so I'll just have to post verbal agreement 
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23rd April 2016, 03:01 PM
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#72
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 22 2016, 08:23 PM) w a bit about us We don't have a like button yet, so I'll just have to post verbal agreement Thanks  The leave brigade have turned on obama like the bitter racist nasty pack of hounds they are. Using their logic anyone who doesn't agree with leaving the EU is doing it out of hate for the old british empire. Yet they dont mention the white american ancestry of the president and the war of independance. Johnson was born in new york you would imagine he might know a bit about british history, plus check his facts about churchill bust's in the whitehouse. Desperate w*n**rs with no actual concrete arguments to put forwsrd so they go "ya boo hiss i hate you" instead A town full of johnson' s and their reaction to a black sherrif... |
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23rd April 2016, 03:42 PM
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#73
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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How many of the people complaining about Obama's intervention were perfectly happy for EU leaders to tell Scottish voters that they couldn't expect instant membership if they voted to leave the UK?
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23rd April 2016, 06:05 PM
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#74
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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Those same people were lecturing Scotland 18months ago themselves. Their intervention in another counties referendum was fine but god forbid someone do the same thing to them. Hypocritical c**ts.
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23rd April 2016, 07:20 PM
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#75
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Silas @ Apr 23 2016, 07:05 PM) Those same people were lecturing Scotland 18months ago themselves. Their intervention in another counties referendum was fine but god forbid someone do the same thing to them. Hypocritical c**ts. In most cases I would say that countries should keep their noses out of other countries' elections and referendums, but there are exceptions. This is one of them, as was the Scottish referendum. Both decisions had / have a major effect on other countries, so it is hard to insist that they should keep quiet. |
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23rd April 2016, 10:26 PM
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#76
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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Keeping the subject on Scotland, the Sunday Herald cover tomorrow is saying 75% of Scotland will be voting remain
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24th April 2016, 10:06 AM
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#77
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 23 2016, 04:42 PM) How many of the people complaining about Obama's intervention were perfectly happy for EU leaders to tell Scottish voters that they couldn't expect instant membership if they voted to leave the UK? By the same token, how many of the people complaining about people having a say in what would happen to their own United Kingdom are perfectly happy for Obama to intervene and tell a totally different country what to do? For the record, I'm chill with both. |
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24th April 2016, 09:55 PM
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#78
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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Obama didn't tell anyone what to do, he offered friendly advice on the likely repercussions on the Uk and on a country that would be indirectly affected by a No vote and therefore had preferences, but left voters free to make up their own mind. Far more factual than the frothing hyperbole of the Leave leaders on TV all day. All they had to do was calmly explain why Obama was wrong, and give examples (though Australia was mentioned as a Trade Agreement bunged together in under 12 months, I'd like to see facts on that one if anyone has them).
Instead they mostly made it personal, mostly because they had nothing to offer in reply other than "Make Britain Great again" (presumably by invading half the world, again), "stop the immigrants!" (except those they married) and "Let's make our own laws free from tyranny" (we agree to any laws passed by the EU). They are all acting like spoilt children who don't get their own way. 
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24th April 2016, 10:08 PM
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#79
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Apr 24 2016, 10:55 PM) Obama didn't tell anyone what to do, he offered friendly advice on the likely repercussions on the Uk and on a country that would be indirectly affected by a No vote and therefore had preferences, but left voters free to make up their own mind. Far more factual than the frothing hyperbole of the Leave leaders on TV all day. All they had to do was calmly explain why Obama was wrong, and give examples (though Australia was mentioned as a Trade Agreement bunged together in under 12 months, I'd like to see facts on that one if anyone has them). Instead they mostly made it personal, mostly because they had nothing to offer in reply other than "Make Britain Great again" (presumably by invading half the world, again), "stop the immigrants!" (except those they married) and "Let's make our own laws free from tyranny" (we agree to any laws passed by the EU). They are all acting like spoilt children who don't get their own way. Even if they are right about the trade deal with Australia, the power balance is rather different. When negotiating with Australia we are in a far more powerful position than we are when negotiating with the USA. Besides, how did we do a deal with Australia? The Leave campaigners keep telling us we can't make our own trade deals. Meanwhile, some Leave campaigners are claiming that there are plans within the EU to create some sort of superstate. As ever, the argument has serious flaws. Even if such a document exists, it is irrelevant. The creation of a superstate would need to be agreed by all member states. The chances of that happening are precisely zero. Even if governments agreed, some countries would require a referendum. One of those countries is the UK. The No vote in such a referendum would probably be so high that there would be no point in making a few tweaks and asking voters to have another go. |
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24th April 2016, 10:09 PM
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#80
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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Boris has shown his true colours, if only he'd done it eight years ago and London wouldn't be in the mess it currently finds itself (with respect to housing etc.)
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