  |
 EU Referendum Discussion, Thursday 23rd June |
| Track this thread - Email this thread - Print this thread - Download this thread - Subscribe to this forum |
 1st November 2016, 01:23 PM
Post
#221
|
|
 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376 
   |
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Nov 1 2016, 10:46 AM)  How is it loaded? Putting aside the idea that many people at all would see their income slashed by a quarter because of immigration being cut, the findings show just how significant things are: 62% of the population say they wouldn't give up a penny of their income to cut immigration at all. That's a huge finding, and shows up the justification behind Brexit hugely: people didn't think they'd lose out economically. I'm arguing it's on the cautious side and that the real results would be much more of a landslide for Remaining if they had chosen more realistic immigration cuts figures and more realistic wage losses, as in not likely to be significant immigrant cuts anyway, and very likely the majority of people will be far worse off than the poll was saying. |
 |
 
|
|
2nd November 2016, 10:36 AM
Post
#222
|
|
|
Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,093 User: 3,474
      |
Inflation to hit 4% next year. f***ing yay.
|
|
|
|
|
2nd November 2016, 10:44 AM
Post
#223
|
|
|
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
   |
Inflation was over 5% for most of 2011!
We have been near zero for the majority of 2015 which was the only thing seemingly increasing disposable income, and consumer spending has been equally the only thing buoying the crippled UK economy. Fun times ahead... |
|
|
|
|
2nd November 2016, 08:16 PM
Post
#224
|
|
 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
    |
The attempt by the government and other Leave campaigners to rewrite the dictionary continues apace.
We already know that the dictionary according to Theresa May is even less sophisticated than Baldrick's definition of a dog ("not a cat"). May's dictionary just defines a dog as "a dog". We have heard various people on the Leave side describe the referendum result as overwhelming. Their use of the word "overwhelming" is not one with which I am familiar. It has been estimated by some people that the change in the electorate (new voters coming on to the register as they reach 18 and the proposed extension of the franchise to all expats) would lead to a majority for Remain in as little as two years even without any June voters changing their minds. In other words, there will be a majority for Remain by the time we are due to leave. That doesn't fit any definition of overwhelming in my dictionary. The verb "punish" has also been redefined. The suggestion that the EU will treat the UK just the asme as any other non-member is being described as "punishment" in many quarters. Now we have Tim Martin, the boss of Wetherspoons, redefining "bullying". According to him, if his suppliers increase their prices to adjust for the collapse of the pound, that is "bullying". In the past that would have been described as "commercial reality" or "capitalism". https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/n...artin?CMP=fb_gu I look forward to his customers refusing to be bullied the next time his pubs increase their prices. |
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 10:28 AM
Post
#225
|
|
 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471
   |
So the government just lost their Article 50 court fight.
Good news? It should at least slow the process down. |
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 10:35 AM
Post
#226
|
|
|
Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
   |
It is good news - for UKIP that is, if it goes before the parliamentary vote and they vote to stall Brexit.
|
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 10:38 AM
Post
#227
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
|
It's good news although it should be seen as just an interim judgement. It is almost certain that the government will take it to the Supreme Court.
The consequences of a government victory (if that is what ultimately happens) should be worrying. We know that a lot of Leave-supporting Tories were planning to attempt to dump Cameron if Remain won and replace him with a Leave supporter. If the government wins this case in the Supreme Court (or the European Court of Justice if goes that far), the implication would be that the new Leave-supporting PM in that scenario could have simply triggered Article 50 anyway. I'm not a legal expert, but the government's case seems largely to be based on the referendum result. However, the referendum was advisory, not binding. The decision on whether to act on the result is a political one, not a legal one. |
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 11:10 AM
Post
#228
|
|
|
DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
            |
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 3 2016, 10:38 AM) However, the referendum was advisory, not binding. The decision on whether to act on the result is a political one, not a legal one. In this day and age, that's for all intents and purposes a technicality. |
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 11:27 AM
Post
#229
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
|
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Nov 3 2016, 11:10 AM) In this day and age, that's for all intents and purposes a technicality. The law often is about technicalities. That's why people get paid a lot of money for knowing about it. |
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 11:28 AM
Post
#230
|
|
|
DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
|
My point is more that if it were rejected on the basis that it was merely advisory, it probably wouldn't end well with the public.
|
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 11:30 AM
Post
#231
|
|
|
Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,093 User: 3,474
|
The pound actually surged upon this news based on the fact that Remain holds a majority in parliament.
|
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 11:37 AM
Post
#232
|
|
|
DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
|
How stupid are these traders? Do they really think Theresa May is going to respond to a vote against activating Article 50 in Parliament with anything other than a snap general election that ends in a Remain massacre?
|
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 12:42 PM
Post
#233
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
|
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 2 2016, 08:16 PM) The attempt by the government and other Leave campaigners to rewrite the dictionary continues apace. We already know that the dictionary according to Theresa May is even less sophisticated than Baldrick's definition of a dog ("not a cat"). May's dictionary just defines a dog as "a dog". We have heard various people on the Leave side describe the referendum result as overwhelming. Their use of the word "overwhelming" is not one with which I am familiar. It has been estimated by some people that the change in the electorate (new voters coming on to the register as they reach 18 and the proposed extension of the franchise to all expats) would lead to a majority for Remain in as little as two years even without any June voters changing their minds. In other words, there will be a majority for Remain by the time we are due to leave. That doesn't fit any definition of overwhelming in my dictionary. The verb "punish" has also been redefined. The suggestion that the EU will treat the UK just the asme as any other non-member is being described as "punishment" in many quarters. Now we have Tim Martin, the boss of Wetherspoons, redefining "bullying". According to him, if his suppliers increase their prices to adjust for the collapse of the pound, that is "bullying". In the past that would have been described as "commercial reality" or "capitalism". https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/n...artin?CMP=fb_gu I look forward to his customers refusing to be bullied the next time his pubs increase their prices. well said! I'll add "Remoaner": someone who uses their democratic right to argue against government policy, for example, anti-EU propagandists for the last 25 years. We didn't give them a handy new catchy name for moaning and droning on and on about the EU year after year, let alone after 3 months. If we had I would have chosen, say, "Brexeracisters" or "Whinegingtwatters", but sane people have to remain civil, unlike the mouth-frothy Hitler-loving beer-swilling, foreign-affairs-nose-sticking, hypocritical, callous, bankrupt-businessey-and-morally employed-by-the-EU-and-on-a-huge-pensioney two-faced in-out-leader-of-a-useless-political-party... Or "detailed": deailed means detailed. No further explanation or consultation of either the British voting public or Parliament required. At the rate the government NHS-battering is going on the lead should also have been lost pretty much within 2 years just from old people dying and being unable to register an opinion. |
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 12:48 PM
Post
#234
|
|
|
DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
|
QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Nov 3 2016, 12:42 PM) If we had I would have chosen, say "Whinegingtwatters" ...catchy. |
|
|
|
|
3rd November 2016, 07:40 PM
Post
#235
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
|
QUOTE(Qassändra @ Nov 3 2016, 12:48 PM) ...catchy. appropriate too today as Farage is back in whine mode big time  We have Boris Johnson saying Brexit is going to be as huge as the Titanic (oops watch out for that huge iceberg!) we have, as someone on twitter kindly pointed out re farage re-brexit-moaning, the sight of a man who wants Britain to take back control of it's own government complaining that a British Court Of Law has upheld the centuries-old established principle of the sovereignty of Parliament when it comes to removing previous Acts Of Law from the books. The Government of the day cannot do this, only Parliament can. We finally have British Law taking control away from the EU and all he does is moan about it! Bet he insists on taking it to the European Parliament, being such a massive hypocrite and all! |
|
|
|
|
5th November 2016, 11:16 PM
Post
#236
|
|
|
Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,093 User: 3,474
|
No single market and Labour oppose Brexit process/deals et al.
This is how Armageddon starts isn't it |
|
|
|
|
21st November 2016, 06:57 PM
Post
#237
|
|
|
My mother said, to get things done, you better not mess with Maj
Joined: 28 October 2014
Posts: 5,765 User: 21,319
 |
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Nov 2 2016, 09:16 PM) We have heard various people on the Leave side describe the referendum result as overwhelming. Their use of the word "overwhelming" is not one with which I am familiar. It has been estimated by some people that the change in the electorate (new voters coming on to the register as they reach 18 and the proposed extension of the franchise to all expats) would lead to a majority for Remain in as little as two years even without any June voters changing their minds. In other words, there will be a majority for Remain by the time we are due to leave. That doesn't fit any definition of overwhelming in my dictionary. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/...he-uk?CMP=fb_gu The Bertelsmann Foundation, which in March did a survey showed 49% of those asked were favourable to remaining in the EU (pretty much spot on with the referendum result) and conducted a new version of the same poll in the UK and other EU countries. That 49% of British people wanting to remain in the EU has gone up to 56%, and that was in August. In fact we're even ahead of France and Italy in the August poll for wanting to remain in the EU. Considering this data, the claim that public opinion is overwhelmingly in favour of one option due to one result when it seems to have already shifted to the other option is nothing short of nonsensical. |
|
|
|
|
28th November 2016, 09:53 PM
Post
#238
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
|
This summary of Mrs May's god-driven belief in herself is illuminating...
(don't recall The Bible saying the poor should go to foodbanks, and strangers should be treated like enemies, tho) Reasons2Remain Yesterday at 00:18 · → My 15-minute encounter with the Prime Minister – Please share LOUISE TRETHOWAN -v- THERESA MAY This month I paid a visit to my Member of Parliament at her Maidenhead constituency office. She’s Theresa May, the Prime Minister, writes Louise Trethowan. I’m an Australian who’s been living in Britain for 18 years, so I can vote in elections here as a qualifying citizen of the Commonwealth. I voted for Theresa May and I voted for Remain. But after the EU Referendum, I emailed Mrs May to say how concerned I was about the Brexit decision, and my worries about the impact on my small business, a bistro in Poole. She wrote back to say, “We’re going to bang the drum for Britain!” – yes, she really did write that. I replied that this was a most unsatisfactory response. She then invited me to meet her at her constituency surgery. I was to have 15 minutes with the Prime Minister. My first impression was that she seemed very cold for someone who relies on votes to keep her job. Really, she could do with going to charm school. I opened with my concerns about racism at the top of government. She refuted this robustly. But I reminded her of statements such as, “British jobs for British workers” and “British doctors would be better for the NHS” and of course Amber Rudd, the Home Secretary, calling for companies to produce lists of their foreign workers. Mrs May went on about wanting to ensure that UK companies were investing in UK workers. But I replied, “If I advertised for a British employee, I’d be very rightly on the sharp end of the Equality Act.” She had to agree with that. I then presented Mrs May with a copy of the EU Referendum ballot paper. “Where on here does it say we were voting to reduce the number of EU citizens in the UK?” I asked. “Well it doesn’t,” she replied. “But the government has reports that the level of immigration is a concern.” I asked for references, which she couldn’t provide. Then, I produced an infograph showing that EU workers added more to the economy than they cost. She didn’t appear impressed, but then the mood changed. She emphasised, not just strongly but crossly, that “the British people have voted for Brexit and the government is committed to making it happen” and started pointing at my face across the narrow desk. I asked her to please not point at my face as I considered it rude. “People point at me all the time,” she replied. “Indeed,” I responded, “it’s rude, so please refrain.” I then presented her with a pie chart with voting numbers showing that only 37% of the electorate voted for Brexit, which was not the majority of “British people”. She didn’t really have an answer for that. I told her that I shouted at the tele when I heard her say that “the British people have spoken” when it was really only 37%. She asked me if I accepted the result of the Referendum. I replied, “Certainly not!” We then spoke about my personal concerns about Brexit. In addition to my day job as a Human Resources Manager, my husband and I own a bistro with an EU citizen chef. She could not, however, guarantee EU citizens’ the right to remain in Britain after Brexit. I emphasised my concerns about the increased costs of food and wine for my bistro following the fall in the value of the pound. She started talking about exports, but I replied that I couldn’t export the steak and frites we cook in the bistro. I needed assurances from the Prime Minister. “We will ensure a strong economy” was all she could do. She said, “We’re going to get the best deal.” I said, “That’s a hope, not an action.” I gave the analogy that the Brexit “best deal” rhetoric was like me saying I want the “best holiday” without knowing where I was going, how much it would cost, how I’d get there or where I’d stay. Mrs May replied that the government would not give details of their negotiations. I reminded her that Donald Tusk, President of the EU Council, said there’d be either “hard Brexit or no Brexit” and I was inclined to agree. Mrs May responded, “I am sure I have more experience in negotiating in Europe than you do!” I said that arrogance was not helpful. I then showed her a screen shot of Boris Johnson’s speech the day after the Referendum when he said that we could still live, work, study and retire in the EU. Could she clarify the Foreign Secretary’s comments as clearly this was not going to be true. She blustered and said, “He wasn’t Foreign Secretary then”. But I wasn’t sure what difference that made.. By this point I knew we’d probably never be friends. I asked her that given Maidenhead had voted overwhelmingly for Remain, would she vote against Brexit should she lose in the Supreme Court case? She replied that she was a representative and not a “delegate” and was not obliged to be the voice of her constituents. I said the people of Maidenhead may find this interesting in the next election. She said anyone who didn’t understand this didn’t understand the role of an MP. I said I thought there were many who didn’t understand this. Time was up. I finished by telling her there was a huge groundswell of opposition to Brexit. But I don’t think she’s listening. She’s arrogant and extremely defensive. She also looked very tired. In my years of ‘people watching’ as an HR Manager, I’d say she is very much out of her depth. I don’t think I’m on her Christmas card list. • Louise Trethowan is Australian who moved to the UK in 1998 and was granted indefinite leave to remain in 2003. Louise is a human resources specialist for a large social care organisation that supports people with learning disabilities and autism. She also runs a bistro with her husband and an Hungarian chef. |
|
|
|
|
28th November 2016, 10:03 PM
Post
#239
|
|
|
#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
|
Given all the FAKE NEWS around recently, I'd strongly call that particular social media share (which I've seen barricading around the more liberal users on Twitter etc.) a likely candidate for being untrue.
|
|
|
|
|
29th November 2016, 12:29 PM
Post
#240
|
|
|
BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
|
QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Nov 28 2016, 10:03 PM) Given all the FAKE NEWS around recently, I'd strongly call that particular social media share (which I've seen barricading around the more liberal users on Twitter etc.) a likely candidate for being untrue. could well be right, it's just too delicious, the coldness, the aloofness, the vagueness, the unsympathetic nature, the pigheadedness are all exactly as I view her. So as a work of fiction (if it is) it's brilliant. Given the lies of the Brexit mobs though, it would also be totally "serves ya right". Given the handwritten memo leaks today of the cabinet meeting (all denied of course, despite it being in black and white in the hands of someone who was there) and the utter and total lack of transparency towards keeping the citizens informed, the likelihood of a hard Brexit, the disregard for those who will be hit economically hard, and the knee in the groin for industry, thoughI'm inclined to give the artcile credibility in spirit if not in fact (which it May well be). |
|
|
|
|
| Time is now: 28th April 2024, 07:00 AM |
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 BuzzJack.com
About | Contact | Advertise | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
