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 By-elections 2015 - 2020 |
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 22nd December 2016, 02:22 PM
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#181
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474 
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The only Tory seat in Scotland is in the borders. They're a massive threat in all three border seats and Aberdeenshire. I.e. Rural land owners. They've always been Tory. The threat isn't new they're just pickin up some of the other unionist votes in opposition to the SNP. Their rise is driven by centrists who don't like independence but otherwise don't mind many SNP policies.
In an indie Scotland their support will wane back down again once there's no union to blindly defend |
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22nd December 2016, 02:35 PM
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#182
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 DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Dec 22 2016, 02:03 PM)  In terms of Jamie Reed, I haven't seen the resignation of a backbencher get so much coverage in the uk press before.... It's only recently become a thing again. |
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22nd December 2016, 02:35 PM
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#183
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
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QUOTE(Silas @ Dec 22 2016, 02:22 PM) In an indie Scotland their support will wane back down again once there's no union to blindly defend I wouldn't be so sure of that. Someone has to be the opposition. Once an independent Scotland has to pay its own bills, it'll restore what's typically one of the main drivers for economic conservatism in a country that hasn't had that driver for quite a long time. |
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22nd December 2016, 11:44 PM
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#184
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,165 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Qassändra @ Dec 22 2016, 02:35 PM) It's only recently become a thing again. I wonder why....the press like the attack don't they! As they say the reason why Corbyn is attacked and they claim is unelectable simply means he can't be bought!! |
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23rd December 2016, 12:31 AM
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#185
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Dec 23 2016, 12:44 AM) I wonder why....the press like the attack don't they! As I've said before, Brexit changed everything. |
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23rd December 2016, 01:31 AM
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#186
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 23 2016, 01:31 AM) As I've said before, Brexit changed everything. What do you mean? They have hated him since day one as he can't be bought and threatens the Establishment. |
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23rd December 2016, 02:15 AM
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#187
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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They don't really attack him anymore though. They just don't talk about him, as he rarely has anything to say.
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23rd December 2016, 02:19 AM
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#188
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,165 User: 5,138
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He clearly does have a lot to say that's different to the established centre left/Centre right economic thinking?!!
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23rd December 2016, 08:16 AM
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#189
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
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QUOTE(Frosty Xmas Baps @ Dec 23 2016, 02:31 AM) What do you mean? They have hated him since day one as he can't be bought and threatens the Establishment. Yes, the man who's undertaken paid work for both Iranian and Russian state propaganda networks cannot be bought. |
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23rd December 2016, 08:29 AM
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#190
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 23 2016, 08:16 AM) Yes, the man who's undertaken paid work for both Iranian and Russian state propaganda networks cannot be bought. A company linked to torture no less, but we should probably just totally ignore that because it's convenient for the 'establishment'. Seriously though - I think Labour are likely to very narrowly hang on, but it isn't within the bounds of possibility that they just lose this to the Conservatives (it is in a ~60% leave vote constituency) though this would of course be incredibly rare for a governing party to gain a seat and would in ORDINARY circumstances lead to a big shake-up in the leadership of the opposition... but we are in extraordinary times so who knows. Interesting by-election though! |
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23rd December 2016, 11:49 AM
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#191
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Dec 23 2016, 03:19 AM) He clearly does have a lot to say that's different to the established centre left/Centre right economic thinking?!! Absolutely this!!! |
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23rd December 2016, 11:50 AM
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#192
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 23 2016, 09:16 AM) Yes, the man who's undertaken paid work for both Iranian and Russian state propaganda networks cannot be bought. That's not reallly true. He was paid to speak his anti-establushment opinions which of course would be valued by their anti-qest-establishment propaganda channels. |
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23rd December 2016, 01:03 PM
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#193
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
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QUOTE(Frosty Xmas Baps @ Dec 23 2016, 12:50 PM) That's not reallly (sic) true. He was paid to speak his anti-establushment (sic) opinions which of course would be valued by their anti-qest-establishment (sic) propaganda channels. And that nullifies my point because? |
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23rd December 2016, 01:05 PM
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#194
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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He can't be bought in the same way Tim Farron can't be bought - they aren't governing rich political-bed-hoppers like the Tories and former UKIP leader. But he's not loathed for that reason, he's loathed for his support of terrorists (oh yes he does, and has, consistently, regardless of the massive death tolls, while he spouts on about others supporting actions causing deaths as being war criminals). He's such a hypocrite on so many issues: like demanding the removal of all previous Labour leaders within months of being elected, and then moaning about it when he gets the same treatment. Like insisting on Cabinets chosen by MP's, and then refusing to do it when he's leader. Like not condemning attacks on his fellow MP's for not agreeing with him (when they, despite not agreeing with him, toelerted him for 35 years and even - very stupidly - elected him on to the ticket). Like not supporting Brexit when that was his party's position (his speeches were rewritten by his anti-EU colleagues to bland out and dumb down any significant pro-European topics).
Not that I have any love for New Labour, but Corbyn is just so useless he is going to destroy Labour as a movement. If Momentum have such great ideas then why don't they just stand under that banner and let's see how they do in elections rather than try and subvert an existing political party. Which worked out so well for the activists in the 80's and so well for the country - legacy: Thatcher, Banker worshipping legislation which led to the mess we're in now. |
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23rd December 2016, 01:09 PM
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#195
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Dec 23 2016, 02:05 PM) If Momentum have such great ideas then why don't they just stand under that banner and let's see how they do in elections rather than try and subvert an existing political party. Which worked out so well for the activists in the 80's and so well for the country - legacy: Thatcher, Banker worshipping legislation which led to the mess we're in now. As I've mentioned before, they more or less did this in 2015 with the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition. It didn't go too well. As Wikipedia tells us - QUOTE TUSC stood 135 prospective parliamentary candidates across England, Wales and Scotland,[10]as well as 619 council candidates in local elections. The party performed badly at the election, winning 36,327 votes, or 0.1% of the popular vote. No parliamentary seats were gained and no deposits were saved. |
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23rd December 2016, 01:25 PM
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#196
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,165 User: 5,138
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Why don't Progress stand??
Because they are philosophical movements within parties like Orange Bookers in the LDs and the New Britannia group in the Tory party - they are not political parties. And on his support for terrorists - should be not have talked to Gerry Adams in 1984/5? On his lack of support for former Labour leaders - he supported Labour and stood as a candidate in elections for them but if the Labour cabinet proposed something he didn't agree with he would oppose it. There's nothing wrong with that - do you want him to close his eyes and support like a robot no matter what? Course not - I reiterate he wasn't in the cabinet. And yes he did support remain and has reiterated this many times but sure box him in the way you want to characterise him all you want. He took the most flexible position admitting the EU wasn't perfect and needed reformed. Maybe if other Tory members in the remain camp had done this instead of issue threats of breaking from the Westminster position people wouldn't have revelled as much?! This post has been edited by Steve201: 23rd December 2016, 01:29 PM |
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23rd December 2016, 02:26 PM
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#197
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 23 2016, 02:03 PM) And that nullifies my point because? It's called typing on a phone!! |
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23rd December 2016, 07:08 PM
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#198
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Dec 23 2016, 01:25 PM) Why don't Progress stand?? Because they are philosophical movements within parties like Orange Bookers in the LDs and the New Britannia group in the Tory party - they are not political parties. And on his support for terrorists - should be not have talked to Gerry Adams in 1984/5? On his lack of support for former Labour leaders - he supported Labour and stood as a candidate in elections for them but if the Labour cabinet proposed something he didn't agree with he would oppose it. There's nothing wrong with that - do you want him to close his eyes and support like a robot no matter what? Course not - I reiterate he wasn't in the cabinet. And yes he did support remain and has reiterated this many times but sure box him in the way you want to characterise him all you want. He took the most flexible position admitting the EU wasn't perfect and needed reformed. Maybe if other Tory members in the remain camp had done this instead of issue threats of breaking from the Westminster position people wouldn't have revelled as much?! They are intolerant bullies on a mission to eradicate non-Momentum opinions. It's one thing to support a viewpoint, it's quite another to support organisations that murder thousands of innocent people over decades, including children. Talking to terrorists (and lets not forget his much-hated "war criminal" Tony Blair was the one who brought peace in Northern Ireland, not him) is not in any way the same as condoning their actions and calling them heroes. Corbyn didn't just disagree with Labour leaders, he was actively trying to get them booted out within months of being elected, which is quite a different thing. This is his own party. You don't have to agree with anyone about anything, but if you consistently try to remove a leader because you disagree with them, then you can't whinge about others doing the same to you. Fair play I call it.... He supported Remain reluctantly, very sadly late in the day. He was the one calling for immediately leaving the EU within hours of the result (which shows how clueless he is), and his closest team advisors are all anti-EU (as he was before getting the job as leader). Re: the "scare" tactics of Remain, pretty much most of what was said was fact or based on logical likelihoods, and most of what was said by Leavers was lies. Remain could have won had he been vocal, leaving working-class voters who are going to be much worse off by 2020 under no illusions what we were heading for (including those who voted for it, but sadly also those who didn't - about two-thirds of the population). |
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23rd December 2016, 07:37 PM
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#199
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Dec 23 2016, 02:19 AM) He clearly does have a lot to say that's different to the established centre left/Centre right economic thinking?!! So why does he not say it? He's done fuck all media or public statements in the last few months. He makes Ed Miliband look dynamic. Anyway, I hope you're not kidding yourself that it's connecting in any way whatsoever with the public. |
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23rd December 2016, 07:39 PM
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#200
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DROTTNING!
Joined: 15 April 2006
Posts: 63,953 User: 480
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Dec 23 2016, 08:29 AM) Seriously though - I think Labour are likely to very narrowly hang on, but it isn't within the bounds of possibility that they just lose this to the Conservatives (it is in a ~60% leave vote constituency) though this would of course be incredibly rare for a governing party to gain a seat and would in ORDINARY circumstances lead to a big shake-up in the leadership of the opposition... but we are in extraordinary times so who knows. Interesting by-election though! I'd say it's probably more likely the Conservatives will win. Labour are shedding votes to both the Lib Dems and Ukip. The Conservatives just need to stand still - all it would take would be Labour losing 3% to both the Lib Dems and Ukip each for the Tories to take the seat. |
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