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 EU Referendum Discussion, Thursday 23rd June |
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 25th July 2017, 09:12 PM
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#421
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272 
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In an article in the Times a Tory minister was quoted as saying
QUOTE We are stuck in a ‘damned if we do, damned if we don’t’ bind. If we try to cancel exit we destroy ourselves; if we go ahead with it we destroy the country. People voted for a fantasy. Obviously the minister is unnamed but they speak the truth. |
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25th July 2017, 11:15 PM
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#422
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 BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 4 November 2014
Posts: 527 User: 21,342  |
QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jul 25 2017, 10:12 PM)  In an article in the Times a Tory minister was quoted as saying Obviously the minister is unnamed but they speak the truth. So now an unnamed Tory minister is being quoted. Wow the desperation from Remoaners is so deep I can almost smell it. Meanwhile whilst the anti-British, anti-democratic Remoaners continue with their disingenuous scaremongering, more good news came out, foreign investment in the UK is now at an all-time high and today companies such as Easyjet, BMW, and Amazon has announced an expansion in the UK and more jobs being created here. This post has been edited by PeaceMob: 25th July 2017, 11:18 PM |
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25th July 2017, 11:26 PM
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#423
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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As the economy drops to its worst levels since 2008 and the pound now offers 78 Euro cents hahaha.
Undemocratic? 2/4s of the union plus Gibraltar voted to atay in. 48% on one day on an ADVISORY vote and less than 65%. It is not enough to be demoxratic. It is undemoceatic and anti Union and pro Little England t drag us out. Don't be so ignorant, Little Englander. |
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26th July 2017, 12:18 AM
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#424
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 4 November 2014
Posts: 527 User: 21,342 |
QUOTE(MoistSummerFruit @ Jul 26 2017, 12:26 AM) As the economy drops to its worst levels since 2008 and the pound now offers 78 Euro cents hahaha. Undemocratic? 2/4s of the union plus Gibraltar voted to atay in. 48% on one day on an ADVISORY vote and less than 65%. It is not enough to be demoxratic. It is undemoceatic and anti Union and pro Little England t drag us out. Don't be so ignorant, Little Englander. The UK's GDP growth rate (percentage terms) in 2016 was 1.8%, this year the IMF and the Treasury are predicting it to be 1.7%. Whoopdeedoo, it's dropped by 0.1% and btw in 2012 when the UK was busy hosting the Olympic Games, our GDP growth was 1.3%, so you can forget that "economy drops to its worst levels" nonsense. |
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26th July 2017, 07:33 AM
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#425
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474
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Ah yes, the Leavers favourite passion. Selective reading! Shall we have a bit more of an in-depth look at said investment shall we?
BMW's "investment" is the automotive equivalent of the spare change down the back of the sofa. BMW themselves have said the investment would be small and the only investment would be to make the necessary adaptations to the production line to be able to add in an Electric powertrain that will be fully manufactured in Germany. BMW have started Mini production in The Netherlands to reduce Brexit impact on their business Easyjet are a British firm so any investment in the UK is not FDI because they're not foreign.... (they're also investing in Austria to set up there and their EU operations will be run on an Austrian Air Operators Certificate so they still have access to the Open-Skies agreement because the UK Gov/Brexiteers has been suuuuper silent on that.) Amazon's continued expansion is not a surprise with the launch of Prime Now and Prime 2 Hour delivery. As this continues to grow, along with their main UK business this requires more UK Warehouses where they use agency workers who are treated abysmally. I would know, I have worked for them. The UK investment is for the internal UK market and does nothing for boosting trade. Yay for minimum wage agency jobs where you get treated like total shite!!! (Most of them will be done by East-Europeans too because unemployed Brits aren't interested or fail the drug test you have to under take to work with the agencies) |
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26th July 2017, 08:34 AM
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#426
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Jul 26 2017, 12:15 AM) So now an unnamed Tory minister is being quoted. Wow the desperation from Remoaners is so deep I can almost smell it. Meanwhile whilst the anti-British, anti-democratic Remoaners continue with their disingenuous scaremongering, more good news came out, foreign investment in the UK is now at an all-time high and today companies such as Easyjet, BMW, and Amazon has announced an expansion in the UK and more jobs being created here. Remoaner = anti-British, anti-democratic. This is a lie. We are just not stupid fools and know what is coming. Using terms like Remoaner is an attempt to bully and ridicule. There is precious little political support for speaking the truth, as bullying and US-style Trumpish falsehoods take over the political system. It's called DEMOCRACY. If you can't handle alternative (and factually supported) viewpoints then you are a supporter of fascism of one xtreme or another. Let's turn it around - Bexiter-froth-mouthers live in a fantasy world where they think they can bully everyone to their small-minded, nationalistic, utterly unsupported by facts and evidence POV(we are still in the EU, non-EU immigrants still merrily come over here no reductions at all, bar students going somewhere cheaper), and want to curtail democracy by bullying and helping rich people get total control over the country. Anti-British! Anti-democracy! See - easy to say offensive stuff to belittle anyone you disagree with. If you can't make make sensible comments, don't bother with any. |
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26th July 2017, 08:43 AM
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#427
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Jul 26 2017, 09:34 AM) Remoaner = anti-British, anti-democratic. This is a lie. We are just not stupid fools and know what is coming. Using terms like Remoaner is an attempt to bully and ridicule. There is precious little political support for speaking the truth, as bullying and US-style Trumpish falsehoods take over the political system. It's called DEMOCRACY. I remember that - from Jun 23rd 2016... |
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26th July 2017, 08:55 AM
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#428
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Jul 26 2017, 01:18 AM) The UK's GDP growth rate (percentage terms) in 2016 was 1.8%, this year the IMF and the Treasury are predicting it to be 1.7%. Whoopdeedoo, it's dropped by 0.1% and btw in 2012 when the UK was busy hosting the Olympic Games, our GDP growth was 1.3%, so you can forget that "economy drops to its worst levels" nonsense. One thing that the Remainer doomsayers pointedly ignore, is that the positive aspects of Brexit can't kick in until we've actually left... e.g. being relieved of our large net contribution Being able to strike trade deals with whoever we want Taking back control of our borders to name three. This post has been edited by vidcapper: 26th July 2017, 08:58 AM |
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26th July 2017, 09:38 AM
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#429
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 4 November 2014
Posts: 527 User: 21,342 |
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jul 26 2017, 09:55 AM) One thing that the Remainer doomsayers pointedly ignore, is that the positive aspects of Brexit can't kick in until we've actually left... e.g. being relieved of our large net contribution Being able to strike trade deals with whoever we want Taking back control of our borders to name three. True. But also businesses have accepted Brexit is going to happen and are already planning ahead, hence the record levels of investment, so already the UK is feeling the positive effects of Brexit. All the Remoaner lot have now is disingenuous scaremongering, it's not going to work though. This post has been edited by PeaceMob: 26th July 2017, 09:39 AM |
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26th July 2017, 09:58 AM
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#430
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474
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For the last time
WE. HAVE. AND. HAVE. ALWAYS. HAD. FULL. CONTROL. OF. OUR. BORDERS. Repeating the lie doesn't make it any less of a lie. We are not in the Schengen area. To enter the CTA you must produce a passport. Successive failures by government to correctly implement EU law on Free Movement isn't an EU problem. It's a UK problem. When will you accept this simple and basic fact and stop mindlessly parroting Dacre & Farages bullshit? |
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26th July 2017, 10:10 AM
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#431
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474
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Our NET contribution to the EU for the 2015-16 FY was £8.6bn pounds.
In 2015-16 the U.K. Government spent £762.3bn. So 1.3% of our total spend was on the EU membership We exported £240bn of goods to the EU in that year. At an average tarrif of 10% our business saved £24bn in costs before we consider the impact on business of having to complete customs declarations. The average cost of a declaration is £30 per declaration. The tiny EU member fee saves our economy as a whole a truly substantial amount. I work for a Big4 firm in Indirect Tax and have actually built an model measuring the impact on businesses. So come at me Brexiteers because unlike y'all I have actual facts on my side |
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26th July 2017, 10:28 AM
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#432
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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You are presenting only the economic arguments - what about the political, cultural & social ones?
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26th July 2017, 11:00 AM
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#433
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474
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I was responding to your economic argument. That tends to be how a back and forwards discussion happens.
Political: the EU is not transparent about how it operates but once you take the time to understand how all the various bits work together you find that it is democratic. The EU commission that people have issue with for being "unelected" is appointed by governments. The UK member of this body is appointed by the U.K. Gov and UK gov only in the same way that they appoint their cabinet. Are we going to start complaining of a democratic deficit when members of the lords are appointed to cabinet??? Major changes to EU rules are done either by consensus or qualified majority and even then you can seek an opt out if you really don't agree. For example VAT is an EU wide tax and the UK VAT law is based on the HMRC/UK Gov interpretation of the EU VAT Directives - so EU law isn't directly pushed into UK law here. To change the directive all countries must agree to the change. This is why despite the objective of the EU when VAT was first established in the 70's to have a single rate paid across the whole continent (amaze for consumers and super clear for businesses) has never happened. It's also why the 0% rate of VAT is still permitted despite being lower than the lowest rate allowed by EU law. We have to agree to stop using it before the EU can ban it, and we don't agree so it stays! The UK enjoys many opt outs. The UK is Queen of the opt outs! Social/Cultural: I'm not sure what the pro-Brexit arguments are here. But the Erasmus programme is amazing for EU students of all countries allowing them to absorb culture and knowledge from across the continent. Free movement is amazing for us socially and culturally. The ability to travel visa/fuss free across Europe is amazing. If you're referring to British culture then you're talking about a country where the best selling dish is Chicken Tikka Masala, an Indian dish we invented. We're already an amazing melting pot of cultures from the Empire days. Adding a few more to the mix does us no harm |
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27th July 2017, 12:22 PM
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#434
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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I think it's telling that informed people like Silas can offer helpful advice and opinion on the current situation and future likely situation, and others can only offer the already-failed and ridiculed "Remoaner doom-merchant" Brexit party-line with no actual evidence to support facts (no matter how often asked for) - clearly following the same crew of incestuous tweeters or papers parroting the same old drivel and cliched phrases over and over.
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1st August 2017, 06:19 AM
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#435
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...EMCNEWEML6619I2
Finally someone fully explains in the media what I've been saying all along. We have full control that we do not fully apply EU rules is not the fault of the EU but the failure of successive governments of both colours. |
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1st August 2017, 06:30 AM
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#436
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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I can't believe Mad May is still forcin this through
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1st August 2017, 08:06 AM
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#437
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Bairlas @ Aug 1 2017, 07:19 AM) https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...EMCNEWEML6619I2 Finally someone fully explains in the media what I've been saying all along. We have full control that we do not fully apply EU rules is not the fault of the EU but the failure of successive governments of both colours. Yet Leave supporters continue to spout this nonsense on radio and television without being challenged. It happened again with Jack Mogg this morning. |
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1st August 2017, 05:35 PM
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#438
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,146 User: 22,895 
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I find the 'strike deals with whoever we want' thing a little disingenuous.
We already have deals with the US and EU member countries as well as others, I'm sure. The fact is, how many first world countries are not already in the EU? America. Australia. Canada. Russia. Japan. Is that it? Great, wonderful to cut off access to 20 plus for greater access to an extra five, now negotiating not as part of a population comparable to that of the US, but as a tiny island with a population equivalent to one US state, with zero transport links by road and our only airspace access being via the remaining EU countries unless by long transatlantic flight. I could understand this more if we were geographically located more like Germany, or France, or even the Nordic countries. But we're not, the UK is completely isolated by location. I stick by my earlier points. This is a colonialistic English fantasy that has caught the public's imagination, and has left those of us who aren't in fact English feeling very precarious about our place living here. |
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2nd August 2017, 07:00 AM
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#439
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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Good article. May was useless in her previous job and is useless in her current one. Border control in the uk is understaffed and under resoourced. I can land at local airports with zero customs checks bar getting the passport scanned. Going to spain you have to fill in details for entering the country online ehich then check you out on leaving. Getting into spain itself is piss easy, flash your passport. Thats it.
Getting out is harder if you have failed to fill it in, oops as i found out last year! Uk govs love to have the eu to blame. Guaranteed they will still try to do the same in decades to come but it wont wash once we have left and immigration is still high, but the economy stagnates and declines. |
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2nd August 2017, 02:32 PM
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#440
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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Now the Leavers are getting their knockers in a twist again. Why? Because stricter border controls have been introduced meaning, to the surprise of nobody with half an active brain cell, that it takes longer to go through security at airports. Naturally the Mail are insisting that Britons have been singled out. Er, no. The restrictions apply when travelling in and out of the Schengen area. We are not in the Schengen area - largely because no government dared upset the Daily Mail - ergo, the restrictions apply when entering and leaving the UK.
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