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 The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit, Part IV |
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 Dec 6 2018, 07:12 PM
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#541
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639 
        
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Brexit in the lead in only 30 constituencies. Remain ahead in 600.
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Dec 7 2018, 06:12 AM
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#542
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(December @ Dec 6 2018, 07:12 PM)  Brexit in the lead in only 30 constituencies. Remain ahead in 600. So you are a hypocrite - you believe in polls when they suit you... 
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Dec 7 2018, 07:24 AM
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#543
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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Scenario :
Say there was a 2nd referendum with the options of 1. Accepting the deal on offer, or 2. Rejecting it, and remaining in the EU What if Leavers boycotted the vote, giving a 95+% majority for option 2, but on a turnout of maybe 35%? Would you consider such a result valid, or farcical? It certainly couldn't be claimed to accurately represent the 'will of the people' in any meaningful way... This post has been edited by vidsanta: Dec 7 2018, 07:26 AM |
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Dec 7 2018, 09:32 AM
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#544
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
    
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 7 2018, 07:24 AM) Scenario : Say there was a 2nd referendum with the options of 1. Accepting the deal on offer, or 2. Rejecting it, and remaining in the EU What if Leavers boycotted the vote, giving a 95+% majority for option 2, but on a turnout of maybe 35%? Would you consider such a result valid, or farcical? It certainly couldn't be claimed to accurately represent the 'will of the people' in any meaningful way... The same principle would apply if there was no option to remain. |
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Dec 7 2018, 10:08 AM
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#545
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 7 2018, 09:32 AM) The same principle would apply if there was no option to remain. True enough, but how should the gov't treat the result? |
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Dec 7 2018, 11:30 AM
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#546
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 7 2018, 10:08 AM) True enough, but how should the gov't treat the result? It's up to the Electoral Commission to avoid such a scenario. That's why I have been saying that I don't think they would accept a question that did not include an option to remain. |
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Dec 10 2018, 08:13 AM
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#547
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Dec 4 2018, 08:29 AM) The European Courts have ruled that we can unilaterally withdraw Article 50 The advice has now been confirmed by the full ruling. Article 50 CAN be revoked at any time while we remain a member. |
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Dec 10 2018, 08:28 AM
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#548
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,792 User: 17,376
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Parliament has made it very clear that No Deal is so damaging it's not an option, and it's not what was promised by all the liars in the referendum, despite attempts to rewrite history and claim that their own individual opinion is exactly what 17.4m people voted for (it wasn't, that is speculation and their are plenty of regretting people who voted Leave believing the lies that it would all be easy and we'd be better off).
Therefore, the only options are accept the deal or stay in the EU. Corbyn's dithering is just PR bluster for himself, he wants to leave and is frightened Labour will lose Leave areas of the countries in future GE's. Norway option being proposed is more or less being in the EU without having a say. I would prefer it to leaving, as a Remainer, and it was sold quite heavily in the referendum as an option - but the lies about freedom of movement not being a thing when it is a thing would mean most brexiteers would see it as just the same as membership. So a vote would have to be The Deal or Stay. To not have a vote, and to not accept the deal on offer, means years more of endless bickering amongst a paralysed Parliament, assuming the EU allow us to have an extension - they won't allow us to withdraw Art 50 and then bring it back at a later date when we finally know what we want as a country. To everyone sick to the teeth of Brexit, just wanna say don't blame me, I didn't fall for the lies and I have had nothing to do with the Brexit politicians running the shit show over the last 3 years that they hadn't a clue about. They had one job - to deliver what they promised voters (which wasnt a Hard Brexit or any half-hearted version) and they failed as obviously as they always had to do. They still have no idea what to do as an alternative except lie about what they said, they promised and the damage Hard Brexit would cause to the people that voted Brexit on the assurance that they would be better off. Even Rees-Mogg, in 2011, said that after a hypothetical referendum the public should have the final say on the deal agreed. Oh yes he did. Funny how he fails to mention that now...... |
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Dec 10 2018, 01:59 PM
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#549
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 10 2018, 08:13 AM) The advice has now been confirmed by the full ruling. Article 50 CAN be revoked at any time while we remain a member. This was obvious, no matter what the BBTory wanted to be true. Why people in here thought otherwise I do not know
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Dec 10 2018, 02:04 PM
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#550
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,403 User: 12,929           
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So what's happening now? Seems like an absolute riot of a day. The ruling of the ECJ means that it's essentially either May's deal or no Brexit. And now there is reporting that the government is attempting to pull the vote on Wednesday, which surely cannot stand this close to it? What a clown fiesta of a government.
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Dec 10 2018, 02:15 PM
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#551
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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Yes, the vote has been abandoned.
Strong and stable. Strong and stable. |
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Dec 10 2018, 02:34 PM
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#552
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639
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But doesn't parliament vote on whether or not to abandon it?
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Dec 10 2018, 02:41 PM
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#553
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 10 2018, 02:34 PM) But doesn't parliament vote on whether or not to abandon it? No. A government can pull a vote whenever they want. |
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Dec 10 2018, 02:48 PM
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#554
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,168 User: 7,561
 
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QUOTE(Izzy Blizzard @ Dec 10 2018, 02:04 PM) So what's happening now? Seems like an absolute riot of a day. The ruling of the ECJ means that it's essentially either May's deal or no Brexit. And now there is reporting that the government is attempting to pull the vote on Wednesday, which surely cannot stand this close to it? What a clown fiesta of a government. The vote was actually supposed to be tomorrow, so this is within 36 hours of the proposed vote. That '...chaos with Ed Miliband' sounds quite preferable now, doesn't it? 
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Dec 10 2018, 02:52 PM
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#555
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,168 User: 7,561
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 10 2018, 02:41 PM) No. A government can pull a vote whenever they want. Yes - but they need to vote on it in Parliament. QUOTE Some Tory MPs now saying they won’t vote to call the meaningful vote off if a vote is required. This could get very dangerous. There could be no greater display of political impotence than a prime minister who not only can’t win a vote but can’t even cancel one. *Grabs popcorn* |
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Dec 10 2018, 04:36 PM
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#556
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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Yes, they need a vote a some point, but that wasn't the question!
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Dec 10 2018, 04:49 PM
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#557
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639
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Hold on to your hats. The speaker wants a vote tonight on whether or not to cancel the vote!
So strong. So stable. So table. I wonder when Sun and BBC consumers will realise they were had and then some by the last two election campaigns? xD |
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Dec 10 2018, 05:18 PM
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#558
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,168 User: 7,561
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Yes, and that seems to have dropped the £ by around a cent against the $. The £ currently has the volatility of a banana republic! The Tories! Economic stability. Oh dear..
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Dec 10 2018, 06:30 PM
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#559
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 I Drink Wine
Joined: 12 April 2015
Posts: 10,484 User: 21,753
 
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Absolute carnage today
I think we're running out of appropriate superlatives to use at this stage |
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Dec 10 2018, 07:50 PM
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#560
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,594 User: 88
   
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What an absolute joke, I am not surprised she cancelled the deal as if this deal gets voted down it's essentially curtains for not only May but the Tory party as well. I can only assume she is going to use the time to try and appease the Tory rebels to stick by her plan and promise the stand down as leader whilst trying to get a new deal (which is not going to happen).
We are totally heading to a STAY vs THE DEAL referendum aren't we, only for this idea of Brexit to continue for generations to come. And before Michael starts, no Corbyn is not the answer. Quotes the EU to get one over May thinking he's clever, then mentions he can negotiate a better deal. What an utter melon, no chance I want that man running the country. |
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