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 The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit, Part V |
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 16th January 2019, 02:53 PM
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#141
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 16 2019, 09:26 AM)  Meanwhile John McDonnell has said that Labour will decide on its next move "in the next few weeks". Well, it's not like we're up against a tight deadline or anything. No need to rush. nothing could be done legislatively before Mar 29th, either way. QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jan 16 2019, 01:10 PM) Corbyn was a car crash on marr on sunday - he refused to give assurances that he would agree to comply with what the Labour membership wants: a referendum. He kept quoting that the membership had agreed to follow his route to Downing Street. Elite much. Like they day, you can promise what you like, but without a GE win, it is meaningless - and I cannot see Labour winning an election with Corbyn in charge. |
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16th January 2019, 03:51 PM
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#142
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 16 2019, 02:53 PM) - and I cannot see Labour winning an election with Corbyn in charge. I keep saying this. They won't win whilst Corbyn's in charge. With another younger leader I think they'd get an overrall majority at the next election. This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 16th January 2019, 03:51 PM |
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16th January 2019, 04:21 PM
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#143
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2019, 03:51 PM) I keep saying this. They won't win whilst Corbyn's in charge. With another younger leader I think they'd get an overrall majority at the next election. It's so much his age as his policies, that make his chance of winning microscopic. He's not going for a huge win, but hoping to just scrape one - he knows a big win on a socialist platform is impossible - to many voters would lose too much under such a system! This post has been edited by vidcapper: 16th January 2019, 04:25 PM |
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16th January 2019, 04:26 PM
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#144
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 16 2019, 04:21 PM) It's so much his age as his policies, that make his chance of winning microscopic. Yes I agree. Some voters will never vote Labour whilst he's in charge. All the Corbyn fans shout me down on other forums but I believe he'll never be PM. Maybe largest party in a Coalition is his only hope. |
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16th January 2019, 06:40 PM
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#145
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Cœur poids plume
Joined: 3 November 2007
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QUOTE(Andrew. @ Jan 16 2019, 12:27 AM) After all this, the only sensible option imo is a second referendum but that only has the slightest possibility of happening if Corbyn backs it, and I get why he isn't. It would be absolutely catastrophic for the Labour Party- their core voters in the North and some of the midlands/Wales would never forgive them and they wouldn't gain enough voters from Lib Dems/Tories to cancel that out. There's no way Labour would win a general election for at least a decade if they supported a second referendum. This is a huge miscalculation actually. Even in pro-Leave seats in classic Labour stronghold territory, it's perfectly plausible that the majority of your Labour voters are Remain, with the Tory/UKIP voters' overwhelming Leave vote tipping the scales in favour of Leave. Wakefield (66% Leave) is a good example of this. Overall, Labour's core vote is very Remain. And since the referendum, while nationwide polls have only indicated a marginal swing to Remain, there have been some significant changes at a regional level. See this map - the biggest swings are working class Labour seats in the North and Wales. Indeed, many middle class, safe Tory seats (many of which already voted Leave in the first place, contrary to popular narrative of Remain being middle class - Solihull's 57% Leave vote is a good example) have actually seen support for Leave increase. Brexit is becoming less and less of a 'left-behind' movement with each passing day. Even if we ignore demographics, it seems that Labour's policy, rather than managing to bridge the gap between Remain and Labour voters, is in fact succeeding in pissing off both sides equally. You kinda need to choose your camp, and their camp is overwhelmingly Remain. See this thread for more. This post has been edited by Harve: 16th January 2019, 06:43 PM |
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16th January 2019, 06:59 PM
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#146
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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Except of course in certain leave constituencies- in order to win a General Election, you kinda also need to win back voters who voted Conservative and/or Leave last time...
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16th January 2019, 07:18 PM
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#147
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It's still will be the return of the Mack 4eva
Joined: 1 February 2011
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306 MPs voted in favour, and 325 MPs voted against in the no confidence vote.
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16th January 2019, 07:27 PM
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#148
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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One of my Facebook friends says "Europe need us more than we need them so we should go with NO DEAL" I agree with him.
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16th January 2019, 07:27 PM
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#149
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,851 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 16 2019, 06:59 PM) Except of course in certain leave constituencies- in order to win a General Election, you kinda also need to win back voters who voted Conservative and/or Leave last time... while kinda not alienating your membership and the majority of voters who want to remain. Cos Leavers will vote Tory anyway if they get what they think they want - look at mansfield, unthinkable that would ever not vote Labour and it has already gone Tory cos they are very anti-immigrant and that trumps everything else. What exactly can Corbyn do to tempt them back? Promise an even harder Hard Brexit?! |
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16th January 2019, 07:30 PM
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#150
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2019, 07:27 PM) One of my Facebook friends says "Europe need us more than we need them so we should go with NO DEAL" I agree with him. Great, so a whole entire continent needs us more than we need them. That is fantastic logic. Thankfully the important people in the country understand we can't leave with No Deal and it looks like it's going to be taken off the table. |
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16th January 2019, 07:31 PM
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#151
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2019, 07:27 PM) One of my Facebook friends says "Europe need us more than we need them so we should go with NO DEAL" I agree with him. Sorry Chris your friend is wrong. The EU does not make most of it's trade with the UK, the vast majority is with others nations. The UK makes most of it's trade with the EU and there is no way to easily get new customers or buy product without any deals in operation. WTO countries have been ganging up on the UK for months saying we will get a much worse deal than the ones he have as EU members, including the USA. They can do what they want because we will be stuck and desperate and willing to sign anything, any old rubbish deals. |
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16th January 2019, 07:32 PM
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#152
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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QUOTE(Mack. @ Jan 16 2019, 07:18 PM) 306 MPs voted in favour, and 325 MPs voted against in the no confidence vote. OK, over to you Jezza. Now show us your cunning plan. My guess: whinge a lot and do nothing until somebody else forces his hand. |
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16th January 2019, 07:36 PM
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#153
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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Without the DUP's support the government would have lost by 1.
And now we're in the abyss for the next few days. Have no clue what's going to happen next, but it's not going to be pretty. |
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16th January 2019, 07:55 PM
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#154
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2019, 07:27 PM) One of my Facebook friends says "Europe need us more than we need them so we should go with NO DEAL" I agree with him. Anyone who has taken even a little notice of what has happened over the last 2 1/2 years should have e realised by now that that statement is utter nonsense. Oh, and you haven't answered any of my previous questions about No Deal. |
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16th January 2019, 07:55 PM
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#155
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,606 User: 177
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2019, 07:27 PM) One of my Facebook friends says "Europe need us more than we need them so we should go with NO DEAL" I agree with him. I’m sorry but that’s moronic. No deal will be disastrous for us. If the EU were that concerned about us leaving, don’t you think they’d have presented May a deal more to the liking of Brexiteers? |
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16th January 2019, 07:56 PM
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#156
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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This is just such a complete farce.
People do need to keep in mind who exactly is responsible for all of this. David Cameron. When the country descends into a lawless wild west post-apocalyptic nightmare, he's first to the galley. |
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16th January 2019, 08:04 PM
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#157
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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Chris, with respect, there is overwhelming evidence to support the fact that a ‘No deal’ would lead to complete chaos. Article 50 is quite clear...
QUOTE The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. That is all of our free trade deals, negotiated on our behalf by the EU with over 60 countries worldwide outside of the EU. Please tell me you are just trolling (as per usual). |
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16th January 2019, 08:07 PM
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#158
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 16 2019, 08:04 PM) That is all of our free trade deals, negotiated on our behalf by the EU with over 60 countries worldwide outside of the EU. Please tell me you are just trolling (as per usual). No I'm not trolling. Am scared that A50 may be recinded and I want us out in March at any cost, deal or no deal, to halt immigration. People like my sister who wants us to remain and lives in leafy Cheshire don't understand what it's like here in East London as they don't have immigrants there. This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 16th January 2019, 08:10 PM |
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16th January 2019, 08:14 PM
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#159
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2019, 08:07 PM) No I'm not trolling. Am scared that A50 may be recinded and I want us out in March at any cost, deal or no deal, to halt immigration. People like my sister who wants us to remain and lives in leafy Cheshire don't understand what it's like here in East London as they don't have immigrants there. I can’t believe I just read this. |
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16th January 2019, 08:16 PM
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#160
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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Right. Well for a start leaving the EU WILL NOT halt immigration. Countries like India will insist on immigration as part of any trade deal talks and it will be the same for others. EU migration may go down but non-EU migration will go up to replace it.
I'm sorry you feel that immigration is a problem but leaving the EU will not be your solution. |
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