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> The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit, Part V
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crazy chris
post 17th January 2019, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jan 17 2019, 04:27 PM) *
I think you should continue to contribute to threads, though, because Remainers like me need to hear the other side, and like it or not, the immigration factor is a major one in the way people voted. It's happening all over the developed world, because human nature traditionally blames immigrants when times get rough - instead of the government.



Okay I'll continue then. smile.gif Both sides opinions should be heard after all.


This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 17th January 2019, 04:38 PM
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crazy chris
post 17th January 2019, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE(ScottyEm @ Jan 16 2019, 10:38 PM) *
Two and half years have passed and not one Brexiter has put forward a convincing argument why leaving the EU will benefit us economically.



That will be because the economy had nothing to do with how we voted. For me, and I'm sure lots of others as I see them say it on TV, saw some just today, we voted to reduce immigration from Europe.
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crazy chris
post 17th January 2019, 05:43 PM
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May has said in a letter to Corbyn that it's now impossible to rule out No Deal.

Downing Street has just released her letter to him but can't get the link to work.

Basically she says there are only two ways to avoid an inevitable No Deal as we are definitely leaving the EU on March 29th as that is what the people voted for. So either a deal of some kind or revoking Article 50.

She says the EU won't allow any more time for further debate here.

She says "I believe it would be wrong to overturn the refrendum result"


This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 17th January 2019, 05:59 PM
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crazy chris
post 17th January 2019, 06:03 PM
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This looks very bad for Corbyn IMO. He talked to Hamas didn't he and defended that saying that dialogue is always good. Yet at a time of national crisis with the clock ticking down he won't get in to No.10 and talk to her without a pre-condition that she can't give. Other Labour MP's including Yvette Cooper have been today but he's now written to them all telling them not to engage in any further debate with the government over Brexit. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 17th January 2019, 06:05 PM
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mald487
post 17th January 2019, 06:04 PM
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God I hate her so much.
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crazy chris
post 17th January 2019, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE(mald487 @ Jan 17 2019, 06:04 PM) *
God I hate her so much.



Why? What do you want her to do now? Rule out no deal or revoke A50? She'd split her party if she did that and anger the ERG 40. She's reaching out to other parties to try and find a solution but Corbyn's being a stubborn old fool.


Question Time should be interesting tonight. Dianne Abbott's on.


This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 17th January 2019, 06:14 PM
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mald487
post 17th January 2019, 06:17 PM
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Errr...for initiating Article 50 without a plan, for wasting negotiating time with a total unnessecary GE, for ignoring 16 million people in addition to everybody else who didn't vote, for putting the interests of her own party before 65 million people(including remainers and leavers). I'd say that's a good starting point.

I'm not a Corbyn fan either before you say anything else.


This post has been edited by mald487: 17th January 2019, 06:18 PM
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crazy chris
post 17th January 2019, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE(mald487 @ Jan 17 2019, 06:17 PM) *
Errr...for initiating Article 50 without a plan, for wasting negotiating time with a total unnessecary GE, for ignoring 16 million people in addition to everybody else who didn't vote, for putting the interests of her own party before 65 million people(including remainers and leavers). I'd say that's a good starting point.

I'm not a Corbyn fan either before you say anything else.



I agree that she wasted time with an election which she held thinking she'd now have a huge majority.


Am stating the obvious here but the only way she can rule out no deal now is to revoke article 50 which she says she won't do as she intends to carry out the will of the people. So if we're leaving in March and a deal has got through parliament then we leave without a deal.


This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 17th January 2019, 06:27 PM
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T Boy
post 17th January 2019, 06:25 PM
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The fact that we are barely 2 months away from the exit date and have no deal/plan for what happens next surely makes even the most moronic people realise that Brexit wasn’t a very good idea.
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crazy chris
post 17th January 2019, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Jan 17 2019, 06:25 PM) *
The fact that we are barely 2 months away from the exit date and have no deal/plan for what happens next surely makes even the most moronic people realise that Brexit wasn’t a very good idea.



It's obvious what happens next. Even a Sky News political guy's just said it. If she can't get an agreed EU deal through parliament and that seems unlikely now then we leave on March 29th with no deal.


This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 17th January 2019, 06:29 PM
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*Tim
post 17th January 2019, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 17 2019, 05:47 PM) *
That will be because the economy had nothing to do with how we voted. For me, and I'm sure lots of others as I see them say it on TV, saw some just today, we voted to reduce immigration from Europe.

How shortsighted...

You'd think with a vote like this people would think further than "Ermagaahd people that weren't born within our borders are moving here" and think of the longterm consequences.

Never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the human kind
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T Boy
post 17th January 2019, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 17 2019, 06:28 PM) *
It's obvious what happens next. Even a Sky News political guy's just said it. If she can't get an agreed EU deal through parliament and that seems unlikely now then we leave on March 29th with no deal.


That doesn’t sound like a deal or a plan to me.
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Suedehead2
post 17th January 2019, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 17 2019, 05:43 PM) *
May has said in a letter to Corbyn that it's now impossible to rule out No Deal.

Downing Street has just released her letter to him but can't get the link to work.

Basically she says there are only two ways to avoid an inevitable No Deal as we are definitely leaving the EU on March 29th as that is what the people voted for. So either a deal of some kind or revoking Article 50.

She says the EU won't allow any more time for further debate here.

She says "I believe it would be wrong to overturn the refrendum result"

She's lying - again. And it's about time somebody asked her why it would be wrong to overturn the result of an advisory referendum o which the winning side broke the law. There is little point in bothering with electoral law if there are no consequences for breaking it. Maybe the Lib Dems should look for a foreign billionaire ready to pay whatever it takes to make sure there is a Lib Dem government after the next election, regardless of spending limits and restrictions on foreign donations.
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Suedehead2
post 17th January 2019, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 17 2019, 06:05 PM) *
Why? What do you want her to do now? Rule out no deal or revoke A50? She'd split her party if she did that and anger the ERG 40. She's reaching out to other parties to try and find a solution but Corbyn's being a stubborn old fool.
Question Time should be interesting tonight. Dianne Abbott's on.

Her priority is supposed to be the well-being of the country, not the Conservative party.
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Doctor Blind
post 17th January 2019, 06:47 PM
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It's impossible to rule out No Deal but Philip Hammond tells business leaders that No Deal will be stopped: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...will-be-stopped

Hmm.
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Rooney
post 17th January 2019, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Jan 17 2019, 06:47 PM) *
It's impossible to rule out No Deal but Philip Hammond tells business leaders that No Deal will be stopped: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...will-be-stopped

Hmm.


I don't actually think May wants No Deal. I suspect her saying we will leave without a deal if needs be is a negotiating tactic. Publicly she will say we will leave, but privately I think she knows how much of a clusterf*** everything is going to be. I just can't understand Corbyn's negotiating tactic, because all that is going to happen if he does enter negotiations is the backbenchers will rise up and initiate talks with the government. Calling for repeated No Confidence calls is just a waste of time.

We all know May is finished as soon as we decide what we are doing with Brexit, but Corbyn's also going to be finished pretty shortly too.
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TheSnake
post 17th January 2019, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 17 2019, 06:28 PM) *
It's obvious what happens next. Even a Sky News political guy's just said it. If she can't get an agreed EU deal through parliament and that seems unlikely now then we leave on March 29th with no deal.


That would be undemocratic though I think. The democratic thing is that the 'no deal' option should go to a Parliamentary vote just before the deadline, if it doesn't go through parliament (which it has next to no chance of doing) then the deadline should be extended.

Hopefully the Speaker will intervene with this and insist that no deal cannot just 'happen by default' without the support of Parliament.

In fact the two extremes of 'no deal' and 'second referendum' should both be put to a Parliamentary vote as soon as possible I think.


This post has been edited by The Snake: 17th January 2019, 09:34 PM
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ScottyEm
post 17th January 2019, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 17 2019, 04:47 PM) *
That will be because the economy had nothing to do with how we voted. For me, and I'm sure lots of others as I see them say it on TV, saw some just today, we voted to reduce immigration from Europe.


Unsure why you would want to reduce a demograph who on average pay more tax than UK born citizens, who typically work more hours, who do the low skilled labour that so many other auK citizens don’t want to do...but ok.
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ScottyEm
post 17th January 2019, 09:40 PM
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I was a big supporter of the people’s vote however I’ve gonna cold on the idea. I think it’ll cause more instability within communities etc. One thing everyone will agree on is that there is no solution that a majority will be happy with. I think the best solution and I predict will happen will be another several months of watering down and chipping away until we get something that will pass through parliament. I think we will get some line in line with the Norway model albeit it’ll take us bloody ages to get there.
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Calum
post 17th January 2019, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE(ScottyEm @ Jan 17 2019, 09:36 PM) *
Unsure why you would want to reduce a demograph who on average pay more tax than UK born citizens, who typically work more hours, who do the low skilled labour that so many other auK citizens don’t want to do...but ok.

Chris can't comprehend the fact that many migrants that come to the UK do make worthy and substantial contributions to society, and instead opts to believe that all migrants must be the root cause of rising pressure on the DWP, NHS, etc. No UK nationals would ever be part of the issue. drama.gif

Worth pointing out these stats that were published in December too:

QUOTE
An estimated 219,000 citizens from other EU countries immigrated to the UK in the year to June 2018, and about 145,000 emigrated abroad. So EU ‘net migration’ was around 74,000—the lowest level recorded since the year to September 2012.
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