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> The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit, Part V
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Rooney
post Jan 21 2019, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 21 2019, 08:29 PM) *
Then obviously she must think we'll leave with no deal. I'm glad she's adamant that they must honour the result of the election. She said in a round about way that there may be some sort of civil unrest if she didn't respect the referendum result.


But when the Referendum happened not once did anybody mention leaving without a Deal. It's economic suicide and it is still crazy to see Parliament trying to do their best to defend democracy. I understand the slim majority voted for Brexit and I accept it, but if we leave without a Deal I suspect that's when the real riots will happen. Won't take everyone too long to complain they have lost their jobs (if they work in export manufacturing) or the cost of living has risen. Rightly or wrongly hundreds of companies are going to move their operations to abroad. Not saying any of this is even directly linked to Brexit as it's been happening for years, but a slow down of demand and economic certainty just gives businesses the justification to make operations elsewhere. One thing I will guarantee is this (is already happening) will happen.
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mald487
post Jan 21 2019, 09:17 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 21 2019, 08:29 PM) *
Then obviously she must think we'll leave with no deal. I'm glad she's adamant that they must honour the result of the election. She said in a round about way that there may be some sort of civil unrest if she didn't respect the referendum result.


I don't recall there being an option on that ballot paper that said "Leave the EU, Customs Union and the Single Market with no deal in place"
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TheSnake
post Jan 21 2019, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Jan 21 2019, 07:38 PM) *
I genuinely have no idea what May is doing right now. I don't see a way that Deal is getting through Parliment and she seems determined that we we won't be extending Article 50.


I have no idea either what she is trying to achieve either. There is absolutely no way that the EU will negotiate on the backstop, apart from if a customs border was in the middle of the Irish Sea, which the Conservatives may now have to come round and accept as their only possible hope of having an EU trade deal without the backstop AND without a customs union It would lead to the disillusionment of their DUP allies, though.


This post has been edited by The Snake: Jan 21 2019, 11:50 PM
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crazy chris
post Jan 22 2019, 11:20 AM
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QUOTE(The Snake @ Jan 21 2019, 11:48 PM) *
I have no idea either what she is trying to achieve either. There is absolutely no way that the EU will negotiate on the backstop, apart from if a customs border was in the middle of the Irish Sea, which the Conservatives may now have to come round and accept as their only possible hope of having an EU trade deal without the backstop AND without a customs union It would lead to the disillusionment of their DUP allies, though.



I think she hopes that when faced with her unpopular deal with the backstop and no deal, then MP's will reluctantly vote her deal through.
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crazy chris
post Jan 22 2019, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE(mald487 @ Jan 21 2019, 09:17 PM) *
I don't recall there being an option on that ballot paper that said "Leave the EU, Customs Union and the Single Market with no deal in place"



The question was should we leave the EU and the people voted in a clear majority to leave. We leave the finer details to the Government.
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Suedehead2
post Jan 22 2019, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 22 2019, 11:21 AM) *
The question was should we leave the EU and the people voted in a clear majority to leave. We leave the finer details to the Government.

And Leave broke the law.
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mald487
post Jan 22 2019, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 22 2019, 11:21 AM) *
The question was should we leave the EU and the people voted in a clear majority to leave. We leave the finer details to the Government.


Do you honestly think that 17.4 million people voted leave, expecting that we would leave with no deal and that they knew what no deal would entail?

Get real and stop living in fantasy land.


This post has been edited by mald487: Jan 22 2019, 01:18 PM
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Silas
post Jan 22 2019, 01:42 PM
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Every single person representing the leave campaign said that we would not be leaving the single market or customs union. That is what people voted for. The day after, once they’d won they revealed they’d been lying and the hard Brexit/no deal fantasy appeared.

It was never put to the vote and it’s economic suicide. You have to be monumentally stupid to think that no deal is a viable option
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mald487
post Jan 22 2019, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jan 22 2019, 01:42 PM) *
Every single person representing the leave campaign said that we would not be leaving the single market or customs union. That is what people voted for. The day after, once they’d won they revealed they’d been lying and the hard Brexit/no deal fantasy appeared.

It was never put to the vote and it’s economic suicide. You have to be monumentally stupid to think that no deal is a viable option


THIS
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crazy chris
post Jan 22 2019, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jan 22 2019, 01:42 PM) *
Every single person representing the leave campaign said that we would not be leaving the single market or customs union. That is what people voted for. The day after, once they’d won they revealed they’d been lying and the hard Brexit/no deal fantasy appeared.

It was never put to the vote and it’s economic suicide. You have to be monumentally stupid to think that no deal is a viable option



It's better than revoking or extending A50 and not leaving in March. That would mean the referendum result has been ignored and us Brexiteers would rightly feel very angry. Well I would anyway and have spoken to others who would.

Anyway how would No Deal be so bad? The world would carry on turning and the sun would still shine and we could strike up trade deals with Japan, China, the US, Canada and Australia. The world is a big place. The EU is merely part of it. They need us far more than we need them. Bet you at the last minute they offer us a better deal.


This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: Jan 22 2019, 07:09 PM
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T Boy
post Jan 22 2019, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 22 2019, 06:59 PM) *
It's better than revoking or extyending A50 and not leaving in March. That would mean the referendum result has been ignored and us Brexiteers would rightly feel very angry. Well I would anyway and have spoken to others who would.

Anyway how would No Deal be so bad? The world would carry on turning and the sun would still shine and we could strike up trade deals with Japan, China, the US, Canada and Australia. The world is a big place. The EU is merely part of it. They need us far more than we need them. Bet you at the last minute they offer us a better deal.



Why do you think anyone cares whether you and your closed minded mates feel angry?

You didn’t think about the feelings of remainers when you voted to strip us of our freedom of movement amongst other things...
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crazy chris
post Jan 22 2019, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Jan 22 2019, 07:07 PM) *
Why do you think anyone cares whether you and your closed minded mates feel angry?

You didn’t think about the feelings of remainers when you voted to strip us of our freedom of movement amongst other things...



Why won't you answer the question? How will No Deal be so bad? Same on other forums. Remainers tell us how bad it would be but not how exactly.


This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: Jan 22 2019, 07:10 PM
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T Boy
post Jan 22 2019, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 22 2019, 07:08 PM) *
Why won't you answer the question? How will No Deal be so bad? Same on other forums. Remainers tell us how bad it would be but not how exactly.


What will be so good about it though? Not having a trade deal with Europe? Companies packing up and going abroad for that reason?
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Popchartfreak
post Jan 22 2019, 07:22 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 22 2019, 07:08 PM) *
Why won't you answer the question? How will No Deal be so bad? Same on other forums. Remainers tell us how bad it would be but not how exactly.


Sorry Chris, I replied to this the other day with a long list of ways in which it would be a terrible decision. It take years to do trade deals so in the meantime we would have nothing useful and be on awful terms with all countries. So they will be able to give us any old crap deal and we'll sign it because we will be desperate as the cost of living rockets, inflation rockets, and wages stagnate as jobs in our industries are lost.

The other day Mr Fox announced a fab trade deal with Japan and heralded it as a marvellous success. The trade deal is with the EU, which includes us as the moment. In 3 months time we will have no great trade deal with Japan. We will have whatever the WTO forces us to have, which is pretty rubbish terms. That's why most sane MP's know No Deal is only being used as a pouting threat by nutty extremists who are frightened they are going to have to reveal where there stashes of cash are by the end of 2019 if we stay in the EU. Like multi-millionaire Rees-Mogg, rich on selling fags, Mr May, rich on investments "out of the country". And all celebrities stashing dosh everywhere who havent yet been caught.

It really doesn't matter if wait another year for Brexit as long as it's done properly and dont crash the economy using threats of something that will only hurt us most of all, not the EU who it'll hurt a little bit.
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Rooney
post Jan 22 2019, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 22 2019, 07:08 PM) *
Why won't you answer the question? How will No Deal be so bad? Same on other forums. Remainers tell us how bad it would be but not how exactly.


It's simple economics - the main thing everyone is rightly concerned about is the extra tariffs imposed. There everything will cost MORE for us to import and everything will cost MORE to export. Simple business tells you, less manufacturing demand = loss of jobs. Simple economics tells you if there is an increase for a business, the customer is also going to see price increases. I work for a huge global business and they have already announced in the event of a No Deal the price increases will be pushed to the customers.

Second, but a part that is often glossed over, is that we do not have the infrastructure in place to deal with a No Deal. We don't have the ports of the roads to deal with thousands of border controls. Also in a world where technology is enabling us to do things much faster, no we are facing the prospect of recruiting hundreds of extra civil servants (likely contractors) to do mind numbling administration work when this money could be best off serving the country. But I mean, who cares right, cos we can have any shape of banana?

Not one person has come up with a good argument for No Deal apart from that we will be fine in 50 years - nice one.
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Rooney
post Jan 22 2019, 08:54 PM
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https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1087691731095699456

If anyone wants a laugh, read this. Doesn't take a genius to work out why Brexit MPs are so hard for a No Deal. Not sure what the people of Shrewsbury deserved for such a twat to be their MP.
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Suedehead2
post Jan 22 2019, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 22 2019, 07:08 PM) *
Why won't you answer the question? How will No Deal be so bad? Same on other forums. Remainers tell us how bad it would be but not how exactly.

Look back at what I said to you a few days ago.
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Suedehead2
post Jan 22 2019, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jan 22 2019, 07:22 PM) *
The other day Mr Fox announced a fab trade deal with Japan and heralded it as a marvellous success. The trade deal is with the EU, which includes us as the moment. In 3 months time we will have no great trade deal with Japan. We will have whatever the WTO forces us to have, which is pretty rubbish terms. That's why most sane MP's know No Deal is only being used as a pouting threat by nutty extremists who are frightened they are going to have to reveal where there stashes of cash are by the end of 2019 if we stay in the EU. Like multi-millionaire Rees-Mogg, rich on selling fags, Mr May, rich on investments "out of the country". And all celebrities stashing dosh everywhere who havent yet been caught.

Please have the courtesy to use his proper title - “Disgraced former Defence Secretary Dr Liam Fox”.
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Iz 🌟
post Jan 23 2019, 03:48 AM
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No deal means disruption. But it means more than that. It means a swift and brutal severing of any laws and agreements that have EU in the name with nothing to replace them. It means the worst possible combination of businesses packing up and out of the country. We do not have anything near the readiness to prepare for such a drastic change. If you were planning to make no deal a success, you should have started making plans and deals years before the referendum, as impossible as that would be.

No deal is, more than any other form of Brexit, the reality behind all that experts were warning about. It’s days, very possibly weeks and months of major trade disruption. It loses more jobs than any other outcome, it will cause horrible damage to the economy, prices going way up at the very least, it means a HARD BORDER IN IRELAND for Christ sakes and it is beggar’s belief that it is even being allowed to be considered. The only people who benefit are some business owners (Wetherspoons) and MPs in very specific situations, which is why they’re still for it. On the other note, Brexit-supporting James Dyson has just announced he’s moving his HQ to Singapore. How interesting how supportive of Brexit he is yet not willing to let his business remain in the country to see it out.
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vidcapper
post Jan 23 2019, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Jan 22 2019, 07:07 PM) *
You didn’t think about the feelings of remainers when you voted to strip us of our freedom of movement amongst other things...


I would guess they gave about the same amount of consideration to the feelings of Remainers, as Remainers gave to those of Leavers. wink.gif

It all boils down to : which is the more important - short term economics, or long term political freedom?
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