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 Formerly Forthcoming Tory leadership race |
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 19th June 2019, 07:53 PM
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#341
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,869 User: 17,376 
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I think this sums up the situation nicely from a supporter of BJ. Can I call him BJ? BoJob?
Nick Cohen @NickCohen4 · 7h Talked to a Tory MP last night who was backing Johnson "Do you think he'd be any good as PM" "No" "What on earth will he do about Brexit"? "No one knows" "Why do you want him, then?" "He's the best hope we've got" "By 'we" you don't mean Britain do you?" "No the party, of course" |
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19th June 2019, 07:54 PM
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#342
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jun 19 2019, 08:48 PM)  Yes, inevitable he would be dropped. His supporters will be of the saner kind, so it will be interesting to see which of the remaining extremists they consider the least deranged..... Tough choice! No surprise really, he didn't do that well on the debate last night, which was largely down to the fact the others ganged up on him and targeted him quite clearly to enable themselves to be in the race against Boris. The problem we are going to have (again) is none of these guys are going to be able to get their Brexit through. And I still refuse to believe we will leave with No Deal. I couldn't give a fuk what people voted in a referendum, leaving with a No Deal is going to be catastrophic for the economy and will quite rightly be the end of the Tory Party for a generation if it happens. Nobody seems to remember the 16m that didn't vote leave and certainly didn't vote to be poorer. |
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19th June 2019, 09:13 PM
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#343
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,683 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 05:08 PM) Just one leaves tonight. There's no minimum threshold to satisfy from what Sky News are saying, so just the one with the lowest vote to leave. Then another out around 1pm tomorrow and the last about 6pm. So we'll know the final two going to the country early tomorrow evening. If the other one dropped out, as some of the party hierarchy would like, as Leadsom did in 2016, Boris could be PM by Friday morning. Some would like to see him get on with the job straight away rather than waiting 5 weeks for it to go to the full membership. Others think they need a say as they haven't had one since Cameron was elected in 2015. Can't see past Javid leaving today. Let's look at the leadership contests since the members were supposedly given a say.. 2001 - the members elected Iain Duncan Smith. He was so useless that the MPs got rid of him a couple years later, before he had a chance to screw up a general election/ 2003 - Michael Howard was the only candidate, so the members didn't get a vote. 2005 - the members voted for David Cameron because he looked good on the telly. Mind you, most people look good on telly when compared with David Davis. 2016 - Theresa May was elected without a vote of the membership after Andrea Leadsom self-destructed. The Tories' claim to be a democratic party wouldn't look great if they had yet another leader elected without a proper vote. |
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19th June 2019, 09:32 PM
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#344
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 Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 19 2019, 12:15 AM) So if there had been an advisory referendum 30 years ago on whether homosexual acts should be a criminal offence, you would have supported a government that acted on the result? Governments are supposed to act in the interests of the country, whether that is popular or not. I get the point your making but comparing discrimation against a group of people about what they can and can't do in private or in the bigger picture who they are isn't really an honest and fair comparison imo. |
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19th June 2019, 09:53 PM
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#345
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jun 19 2019, 07:53 PM) Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician. His voting record shows otherwise, but amongst even more extreme right wingers he sounded sane. Think he knew he wouldn't win so was laying the ground for future attempts to lead. |
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19th June 2019, 09:57 PM
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#346
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,168 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 19 2019, 04:44 PM) I love it when people are all ‘but democracy!!!!1!2!!2’ when they can’t think of a proper reason to leave. Say it’s my birthday next week and I invite four friends out for a meal. We have the choice of restaurant A and restaurant B. We have a democratic vote and 3 of us pick restaurant A over 2 for B so we decide we’ll go to restaurant A. Closer to the date, we discover that’s restaurant A has been serving actual dog shit as meals. Now aware of the facts and not wanting to eat dog shit, are we now not allowed to change our minds and go to the good restaurant? Do we have to eat dog shit because we voted for it first and we must respect that vote? Or does democracy allow us to change our minds? Basically, the UK is going to be having dog shit for dinner for some time. It's a good comparison but it fits your view of Brexit once again making democracy seem irrelevant. |
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19th June 2019, 09:59 PM
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#347
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jun 19 2019, 07:53 PM) Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician. Who refuses to serve his country under Boris if asked to. |
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19th June 2019, 10:17 PM
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#348
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jun 19 2019, 07:53 PM) Well Rory Stewart did very well and I’ll be following his career with interest as to how he know progresses and if he was as refreshingly honest as I hope he is. Very eloquent and reasonable politician. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/22...l-almost-every/ |
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19th June 2019, 10:22 PM
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#349
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is my brain across your walls?
Joined: 14 February 2009
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Rory Stewart is still a Tory. It's not hard for him to make himself appear a little more palatable/reasonable compared to the other lunatics who were running but that doesn't make him a good candidate.
It's interesting that he actually lost 10 votes in the third round. Looks like his big boost in the second round may have been down to people tactically voting for him either to get him to the debate or to eliminate Raab, or both. |
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19th June 2019, 10:30 PM
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#350
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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It's all relative isn't it? Still a complete LOON, otherwise he wouldn't stand for the Conservative Party.
The hype from the media was predictable (after all they got in a massive froth about 3.3% polling 'Change UK'), as was his failure to make any kind of progress in a party that is being destroyed irrevocably by Brexit. |
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19th June 2019, 10:32 PM
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#351
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 10:59 PM) Who refuses to serve his country under Boris if asked to. Anyone with a conscience. That, of course, doesn't apply to 99% of the Tory party. |
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20th June 2019, 02:02 AM
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#352
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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While Stewart would have been the only one offering anything not completely insane and I liked him for at least bringing to the conversation the fact that compromise and talking to all people (not just the white men in their 60s of the Tory Party) is needed and necessary in politics, his ideas I think would have been only a slightly more palatable version of what May's been doing, trying to break the Withdrawal Agreement through and creating this vague Brexit Assembly to sort out the matter otherwise. The other candidates don't have anything better, and at least he had a plan, but it did feel like a weak plan. Better for him that he isn't tied to this dumpster fire and can 'rescue' the Tories later down the line.
This will go to a vote, it will be Hunt led to the slaughter for Johnson's ego to triumph, and then it begins. |
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20th June 2019, 05:02 AM
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#353
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 19 2019, 10:57 PM) It's a good comparison but it fits your view of Brexit once again making democracy seem irrelevant. It’s an analogy that’s based upon the democratic right to change your mind. How does it make democracy seem irrelevant? If we were given another referendum, now that we have a clearer idea of what Brexit means, and people still vote leave in a majority then so be it. But until we get that chance there’s no way I’ll be giving up this argument. The more you post, the more it looks like you don’t actually understand democracy yourself. The vote has already been respected. Wasting over 3 years and getting nowhere when the government could have been focusing on solving the country’s actual problems instead surely proves that the first vote wasn’t ignored. |
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20th June 2019, 07:00 AM
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#354
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,869 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Common Sense @ Jun 19 2019, 10:59 PM) Who refuses to serve his country under Boris if asked to. yes but Boris resigned from serving his country because he didnt get the top job he wanted and saw an opportunity to slag off May and bring her down. Job done. PS Rory Stewart also DID serve his country in the military and beyond, and if the rags are to be believed, in MI5. He knows an unprincipled egotist when he sees one..... |
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20th June 2019, 07:23 AM
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#355
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Jun 20 2019, 06:02 AM) It’s an analogy that’s based upon the democratic right to change your mind. How does it make democracy seem irrelevant? If we were given another referendum, now that we have a clearer idea of what Brexit means, and people still vote leave in a majority then so be it. But until we get that chance there’s no way I’ll be giving up this argument. The more you post, the more it looks like you don’t actually understand democracy yourself. The vote has already been respected. Wasting over 3 years and getting nowhere when the government could have been focusing on solving the country’s actual problems instead surely proves that the first vote wasn’t ignored. Because the original referendum was never enacted. You don't have to give into your arguement your entitled to argue it out. I don't believe another referendum would resolve the issues imho it would do what the first one did and polarise the country further. There are all sorts of results too. A close remain victory and the other side would argue for a third poll, we could go on and on. Why the more I post do you think I don't 'understand democracy'? Why do you have to get personal? The original vote was never respected it was undone and stopped by MPs in every possible way they could have. |
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20th June 2019, 08:16 AM
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#356
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 Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 89,032 User: 51
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I feel like this needs to be reiterated:
QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jun 19 2019, 09:46 AM) "If a democracy cannot change its mind, then it ceases to be a democracy" - David Davis (former Brexit Secretary), 2012 Words from the actual former Brexit Secretary in 2012. Democracy isn't a static thing, otherwise we wouldn't have general elections and changes in governing parties. |
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20th June 2019, 08:29 AM
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#357
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,426 User: 12,929 |
Also, the referendum as voted for can’t be enacted. It’s done, negotiations are over, the result wouldn’t be good for the country so MPs rejected it. They spent 3 years with this project as their primary focus. Over and above all the far more important issues we need to face. It most certainly has been respected.
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20th June 2019, 08:42 AM
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#358
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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Can we please stick to the topic of the Conservative party leadership race please?
I know Brexit is relevant to it, but there are other threads to discuss the neverendum. Thanks. |
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20th June 2019, 11:04 AM
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#359
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 20 2019, 08:23 AM) Because the original referendum was never enacted. You don't have to give into your arguement your entitled to argue it out. I don't believe another referendum would resolve the issues imho it would do what the first one did and polarise the country further. There are all sorts of results too. A close remain victory and the other side would argue for a third poll, we could go on and on. Why the more I post do you think I don't 'understand democracy'? Why do you have to get personal? The original vote was never respected it was undone and stopped by MPs in every possible way they could have. It’s not personal, it’s just that you keep ignoring the posts where everyone explains why a second vote would be democratic. |
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20th June 2019, 12:22 PM
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#360
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 23 June 2018
Posts: 9,511 User: 73,240
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Not exactly a surprise but Sajid Javid is the latest to be knocked out.
Boris Johnson - 157 (+14) Michael Gove - 61 (+10) Jeremy Hunt - 59 (+5) Sajid Javid - 34 (-4) The other two were spoilt ballot papers. This post has been edited by coi: 20th June 2019, 12:26 PM |
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