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| What do you consider to be a 'flop'? |
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 Aug 22 2019, 10:51 PM
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#1
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 13 June 2011
Posts: 19,798 User: 14,043 
   
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People buy and consume music in many different ways now, and that's changed the calculus of hits! I'm curious what others deem to be a 'flop' in a time when how we listen to music is always changing and evolving.
Discuss! |
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Aug 22 2019, 11:06 PM
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#2
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 October 2013
Posts: 31,023 User: 19,931
  
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It's hard to say. It really depends on the artist and how much longevity a song has. Like 'Needed Me' didn't chart very well at all but is a smash. But, say, 'word up' by little Mix charted at 6 and it's a flop.
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Aug 22 2019, 11:07 PM
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#3
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 BuzzJack Idol
Joined: 8 December 2010
Posts: 50,947 User: 12,472
  
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Depends on the artist. For some, making the Top 100 is a triumph whereas missing out on the Top 40 would be a disaster for others.
Also, particularly in the streaming era, songs can be bigger hits than their peaks suggest. Basically, it's down to context as to whether a song has been a hit or not, rather than "it reached x so it's a success / it reached y so it's a flop". |
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Aug 22 2019, 11:12 PM
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#4
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 22 June 2015
Posts: 2,419 User: 22,008
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I mean, it's all relative to the artist. #38 for Kylie and #87 for Madonna is a triumph but Spirit peaking at #59 for Beyonce is embarrassing.
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Aug 22 2019, 11:32 PM
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#5
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 3 August 2006
Posts: 8,209 User: 1,031
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Chart positions in the singles chart don’t mean much anymore. A song can still hang around and not peak inside the T40 but sell a reasonable amount in comparison to singles released pre-streaming era.
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Aug 22 2019, 11:58 PM
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#6
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 20 January 2011 Posts: 5,906 User: 12,837
    
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QUOTE(No Sleeep @ Aug 22 2019, 11:12 PM)  I mean, it's all relative to the artist. #38 for Kylie and #87 for Madonna is a triumph but Spirit peaking at #59 for Beyonce is embarrassing. This (for the most part - not sure I agree on #87 for Madonna being a triumph but other than that). It's always relative to the artist in question. Ed Sheeran making #16 with a short chart run would be a flop compared to what people were expecting but yeah a Madonna or Kylie single going Top 40 in this day and age would be exceeding everyone's expectations so I guess I consider a song a flop if it does far worse than predicted. |
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Aug 23 2019, 12:16 AM
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#7
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BuzzJack Idol
Joined: 29 June 2006
Posts: 128,409 User: 845
 
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QUOTE(No Sleeep @ Aug 23 2019, 12:12 AM) I mean, it's all relative to the artist. #38 for Kylie and #87 for Madonna is a triumph but Spirit peaking at #59 for Beyonce is embarrassing. I agree, for someone like kylie going top 100 now I see as a success but years ago a single missing the top 10 would be a flop. |
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Aug 23 2019, 10:20 AM
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#8
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 4 April 2018
Posts: 779 User: 70,067
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Failing to make top 40 for me.
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Aug 23 2019, 10:40 AM
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#9
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Jord
Joined: 12 March 2017
Posts: 10,760 User: 27,116
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Yeah it’s all down to the artist and the song in question as well.
Beyoncé’s Spirit was a good example there. That missing the top 40 with the huge deal that it’s in the Lion King shows it was a big underperformance. But Madonna actually making the top 100 with Medellin was a bit of a success for her. It really all depends on the artist like say if a lead single by someone like Rihanna, Ariana or Ed or Drake missed the top 5 it would seem like it was a flop but Katy’s Never Really Over going to #12 didn’t seem too bad. It’s harder to tell what is a flop now a days though with streaming. In the pre stream chart days it was rare a lead single or pre album single would peak a good 7/8 weeks into their chart run where as now it’s normal. The pre streaming days also had pre orders and hype before a release but often with shorter chart runs as the bulk of the sales came in like the first 3 weeks. There’s times now where we look at specific artists biggest singles charts and see songs what went to #1 back in the day being outsold by songs what just about made top 40 or in some cases missed the top 40 I’m sure Eminem has a #70 something song what’s outsold one of his #1s. But yeah it all depends on the artist. I go more by longevity these days rather than peak position. |
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Aug 23 2019, 11:29 AM
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#10
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Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,911 User: 51
 
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I think in relative terms, something that vastly underperforms compared to what would be expected of it (In this day and age). Something like 'Small Talk' probably being a perfect current example.
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Aug 23 2019, 11:50 AM
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#11
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 10 April 2016
Posts: 27,025 User: 23,155     
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It depends on the artist, type of song, level of promo etc..
I’d consider Never Really Over a smash for Katy (#12), yet Boyfriend by Ariana (#4) is an underperformance. |
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Aug 23 2019, 12:03 PM
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#12
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 June 2011
Posts: 23,993 User: 14,031 
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QUOTE(Cqmerqn @ Aug 23 2019, 12:50 PM) It depends on the artist, type of song, level of promo etc.. I’d consider Never Really Over a smash for Katy (#12), yet Boyfriend by Ariana (#4) is an underperformance. My same thoughts. |
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Aug 23 2019, 01:30 PM
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#13
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 you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,599 User: 13,530        
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Definitely agree that it's dependent on the artist and the context of their career. Obviously a few years ago, #12 for a Katy lead would look disastrous but considering everything that happened between Chained and NRO, it performed very strongly and outdid expectations! I don't think anything going top 40 could be truly called a flop (unless like, Adele or Ed Sheeran crashed in at #28 with their next singles), though there's a definite line between flop and underperformance. Ariana's boyfriend is an underperformance, but by no means a flop!
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Aug 23 2019, 03:36 PM
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#14
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🙄
Joined: 14 February 2010
Posts: 53,654 User: 10,643
     
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I wouldn’t say Boyfriend at #4 is an underperformance, she never really pushed it as much as her other singles on social media
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Aug 23 2019, 03:54 PM
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#15
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 5 November 2014
Posts: 1,080 User: 21,348
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Ultimately I judge a song's performance on how it sells, who cares about a chart position if you don't sell much in the long run.
I think You Are The Reason by Calum/Leona is a great example as it never went Top 40 in the UK but has still been certified Gold. And its the same story in multiple countries, never charted in the US but is platinum, 3x platinum in Australia, 2x platinum in Canada. So a chart position can be very misleading on how a song performed. |
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Aug 23 2019, 04:57 PM
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#16
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,170 User: 7,561
 
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'Ellie Goulding'.
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Aug 23 2019, 05:02 PM
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#17
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,599 User: 13,530
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QUOTE(Wall @ Aug 23 2019, 04:36 PM) I wouldn’t say Boyfriend at #4 is an underperformance, she never really pushed it as much as her other singles on social media It's not an absolutely huge underperformance, but she had 3 consecutive #1s recently so for a brand new Ariana track, hyped with a music video release, to not even challenge for #1 is a slight underperformance. MONOPOLY is a far bigger one though, that's more in "flop" territory! |
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Aug 23 2019, 05:23 PM
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#18
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Gareth T H
Joined: 6 February 2010
Posts: 2,495 User: 10,597
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Top 40 is the grade for me, but as others have mentioned it is all contextual based on the artists popularity at the time. Genre also plays a role too (for example, rock does not get much attention from streaming so a top 75 song would be a more appropriate grade to me).
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Aug 23 2019, 10:40 PM
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#19
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This custom member title has been edited by jimwatts
Joined: 28 August 2017
Posts: 10,670 User: 38,591
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Song by an act you don't like doesn't do well = flop
Song by an act you like doesn't do well = underperformance Song by an act you love doesn't do well = not high enough on Spotify playlists End of discussion. Seriously though, who is to judge what is a flop and what isn't? People like Beyonce and Ed Sheeran can do whatever they like right now, she doesn't need to keep remaking Halo 2019 to get more top 10 hits. |
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Aug 23 2019, 11:02 PM
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#20
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 10 April 2016
Posts: 27,025 User: 23,155
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QUOTE(Wall @ Aug 23 2019, 04:36 PM) I wouldn’t say Boyfriend at #4 is an underperformance, she never really pushed it as much as her other singles on social media Oh, come ON... |
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