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> Brexit: auf wiedersehen.. ?
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Rooney
post 21st October 2019, 11:01 PM
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Oct 21 2019, 11:56 PM) *
Sky say there's still a way that Bori, as PM with backing of the UK Cabinet, and that's crucial, could take us out on 31st with no deal, Benn Act or not. He could declare a State Of Emergency for the UK which would mean troops on the street, Parliament suspended and curfews. We'd just crash out then.


There's more chance of you becoming Prime Minister Chris than that happening, let's be honest. That's straight out of Cumming's wet dream fantasasial nonsense.
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crazy chris
post 21st October 2019, 11:03 PM
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I agree as he'd need a very good reason ie a war, to declare a State Of Emergency. Wouldn't put anything past Boris now though.

This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: 21st October 2019, 11:04 PM
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Silas
post 21st October 2019, 11:09 PM
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I’m sure that would survive a court challenge about as well as any of the other stunts he’s attempted. An affront to democracy and decency that that is what is being briefed to the press.

I hate to invoke Godwin’s law but this is all coming up Adolf. Absolutely terrifying to watch our country slide into this horrific place
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crazy chris
post 21st October 2019, 11:14 PM
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Oct 22 2019, 12:09 AM) *
I’m sure that would survive a court challenge about as well as any of the other stunts he’s attempted. An affront to democracy and decency that that is what is being briefed to the press.

I hate to invoke Godwin’s law but this is all coming up Adolf. Absolutely terrifying to watch our country slide into this horrific place



Would there even be any court sittings in the event of martial law though?. Everything apparently would grind to a halt.
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vidcapper
post 22nd October 2019, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Oct 22 2019, 12:09 AM) *
I’m sure that would survive a court challenge about as well as any of the other stunts he’s attempted. An affront to democracy and decency that that is what is being briefed to the press.

I hate to invoke Godwin’s law but this is all coming up Adolf. Absolutely terrifying to watch our country slide into this horrific place


We wouldn't be doing so if parliament respected the referendum result... wink.gif teresa.gif
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Suedehead2
post 22nd October 2019, 08:15 AM
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After publishing the Bill last night, the government gave MPs just three hours to table amendments. They are also still refusing to publish the economic assessments. Once again, they are doing an excellent job of demonstrating their contempt for due democratic process.
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crazy chris
post 22nd October 2019, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 22 2019, 09:15 AM) *
After publishing the Bill last night, the government gave MPs just three hours to table amendments. They are also still refusing to publish the economic assessments. Once again, they are doing an excellent job of demonstrating their contempt for due democratic process.



As a Tory Brexiteer MP said on Sky News earlier when pushed to answer by Kay Burley, they can't say what will happen until Brexit happens. She said they're holding nothing back but it's like anything in life, no-one has a crystal ball.


This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: 22nd October 2019, 08:27 AM
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Klaus
post 22nd October 2019, 08:49 AM
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A business doesn’t take action that will have significant consequences without assessing, as much as it can, the risks (particularly economic risks) that the action will bring.

Action should not be taken until sight has been had of the estimate of the risks it will bring.

You can’t wonder into something blind and just ‘deal with it as it comes’.
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Suedehead2
post 22nd October 2019, 08:50 AM
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Oct 22 2019, 09:24 AM) *
As a Tory Brexiteer MP said on Sky News earlier when pushed to answer by Kay Burley, they can't say what will happen until Brexit happens. She said they're holding nothing back but it's like anything in life, no-one has a crystal ball.

They are holding something back. They aren't publishing the economic assessments. They are also trying to get the Commons to pass one of the most important pieces of legislation in our lifetime (and I refer specifically to those of us who are near the end of our sixth decade) in just a few days.
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Harve
post 22nd October 2019, 09:43 AM
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Stephen Bush's Morning Call is grim this morning:

QUOTE

Good morning. The government has published the Withdrawal Agreement Bill, giving MPs (and the rest of us) less than 24 hours to read it before voting begins. As such, while there may be some vital bits and pieces that I have missed, here's what look to me to be the bits that might cause the Bill to come unstuck:

1) The clauses confirming the continued primacy of EU law during the transition period - there is a meaningless section later down the bill designed to mollify any worried Brexiteers but it does not change the meaning of this part. However, if I were them I'd grin and bear it because....

2) There is nothing of substance in this bill to allow MPs to prevent a no-deal exit at the end of October 2020 and as written it does an excellent job of making the parliamentary manoeuvres that prevented a no-deal exit in March and October signficantly harder. Coupled to pre-existing mechanisms in the transition period agreed by Theresa May, to stop a no-deal exit at the end of next year, the UK would have to agree an extension with the EU in July of 2020 - and, because the EU enters a new budgetary period at the end of 2020, that would involve a huge financial commitment, something that Parliament cannot do without the co-operation of the executive.

3) The scant ability given to Parliament to scrutinise the free trade agreement negotiations. Ministers will be required to provide updates to Parliament, but that's it. Given the difficulty of of preventing a no deal Brexit, as it stands, if MPs vote this through unamended this will be the last meaningful vote they cast as far as the final shape of Brexit is concerned - it will be a choice between whatever Johnson negotiates or no deal.

4) The attempt to codify parts of the future declaration - the non-binding parts of the exit deal that cover the EU and UK's aspirations for the future relationship - which would put the UK on course for a low-alignment, low-trade, high regulatory divergence Brexit as envisaged by the Conservative party's most committed Brexiteers. (See? I said there was a good reason to just grin and bear the sections about the primacy of EU law during the transition.)

There are two votes to watch today: the first, the Bill's second reading (a bill gets its first reading when it is introduced into the House - second reading is the first time it is voted on and traditionally a time for MPs to indicate whether they broadly assent to the thrust of the Bill) which is likely to produce a majority unless something goes very wrong for the government.

It's the vote on the programme motion (the procedure which sets the amount of time put aside to scrutinise a bill) that is worth watching. The various problems MPs will have with the bill make it harder to justify voting for it to be debated on the government's timetable if you are a Labour rebel, not least because if you still hope to have a future within the Labour party, it's difficult enough to justify voting for Boris Johnson's Brexit deal, but doing so in a manner that means he achieves his 31 October deadline only compounds the offence.

But what may cause those Labour rebels to do it anyway is this: that these items of the bill, particularly that last part about enshrining the future relationship into law, look designed to produce a confrontation with Parliament. Despite having got a deal, the government looks like it is still desperately seeking dissolution-by-Parliament so that it can fight the 'Save Brexit' election it craves. Labour MPs might yet decide that denying them that is a price worth paying for voting through a very hard Brexit.
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blacksquare
post 22nd October 2019, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 22 2019, 09:15 AM) *
After publishing the Bill last night, the government gave MPs just three hours to table amendments. They are also still refusing to publish the economic assessments. Once again, they are doing an excellent job of demonstrating their contempt for due democratic process.


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blacksquare
post 22nd October 2019, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE(Trick Or Queef! @ Oct 21 2019, 04:55 PM) *
Why would the one party state media do that? They are purposefully doing it to set it up as a big victory for the Etonian blustering aristocratic evil Tory turd.




This is a great, and worrying, article on that
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Long Dong Silver
post 22nd October 2019, 12:42 PM
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And there we have it. We live in a proto-dictatorship following the Nazi propaganda strategy. They have their very own Ministry of Truth in no.10.

The BBTory is not challenging it in any way and just going along with it. Cameron put Tories in positions of power at the BBTory. They are very uncritical of the Tory message, but just watch how they interrupt Labour mps. Are people still going to call it unbiased?
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Suedehead2
post 22nd October 2019, 12:51 PM
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Note that Peter Oborne would probably threaten to sue anyone who accused him of being remotely left-wing. He is about as Tory as they come.
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Long Dong Silver
post 22nd October 2019, 12:53 PM
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Omfg!! That is an important piece of information. If people on the right wing are saying the same as the left about how our media is now just pro government propaganda and cheerleaders, we have a serious, serious problem. I told you this before Bojo got into office and now it has got even worse. How is democracy supposed to work with a one party state media?
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Iz 🌟
post 22nd October 2019, 01:08 PM
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Very good article. It's been worrying me for some time how eager the BBC and other news broadcasters, but especially the BBC, are so keen to parrot No 10 statements without question. Even if they don't agree, it's doing the government's PR for them.

I think the entire BBC political team could do with a shakeup.
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Long Dong Silver
post 22nd October 2019, 01:10 PM
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They should sack all of them and replace the entire BBTory management that Cameron brought it.
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Suedehead2
post 22nd October 2019, 02:41 PM
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Remember Dominic Raab's confession when he was in charge of DExEU that he didn't realise Dover-Calais was an important trade route? His successor Steve Barclay has finally put in his bid to be considered even dimmer than Raab. He told the Commons yesterday that the withdrawal agreement would not mean that companies would need to complete documentation to move goods between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Soon afterwards, he had to return and admit that he was wrong.

We also have Labour MPs saying they will vote for the deal while also admitting they haven't read it or read the government's Bill. Just as well it's not anything important, eh?
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Suedehead2
post 22nd October 2019, 02:47 PM
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Anyone who thought this government's arrogance had reached its limit needs to think again.

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crazy chris
post 22nd October 2019, 02:59 PM
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From BBC News

The government will abandon its Brexit bill if MPs vote down its three-day timetable to get it through Parliament.

Boris Johnson told MPs if the programme was rejected and the EU confirmed a delay to the 31 October exit, he would instead push for a general election.

The PM said Parliament had been "caught in a deadlock of its own making", and he would "in no way allow months more of this".

But opposition MPs called the threat to pull the bill "childish blackmail".

The Withdrawal Agreement Bill was published on Monday night and MPs are now debating it in the Commons.

They will vote at around 19:00 BST on the proposed timetable.


This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: 22nd October 2019, 02:59 PM
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