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 USA vs Iran, Top Iranian general confirmed killed in U.S. airstrike |
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 6th January 2020, 09:40 AM
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#61
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jan 6 2020, 09:33 AM)  This is not a contradiction. You can hate the man and also be appalled at the manner of his death. US goddamn imperialism. Iraq has now asked that all US troops leave its borders, the USA's response is to threaten them with sanctions. It's not world peace, it's enforcement of an American empire. This is the real world, not Star Trek with its non-interference 'Prime Directive'.  |
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6th January 2020, 09:47 AM
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#62
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 Bitch of t seet
Joined: 2 April 2012
Posts: 27,396 User: 16,660
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 6 2020, 10:40 AM) This is the real world, not Star Trek with its non-interference 'Prime Directive'. This is the real world, where the US and many other world powers have been bullying less powerful countries into doing what they want them to do in order to increase their power. |
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6th January 2020, 09:54 AM
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#63
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(*Tim @ Jan 6 2020, 09:47 AM) This is the real world, where the US and many other world powers have been bullying less powerful countries into doing what they want them to do in order to increase their power. Trump didn't attack a country. He took out an evil man, a known terrorist who was threatening the safety of the US and it's assets and allies. End of. As they're saying on Sky now, they had a chance to kill him before but chose not to. Trump decided the time was right now. This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 6th January 2020, 09:57 AM |
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6th January 2020, 10:05 AM
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#64
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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US SOS Pompeo first spoke with Trump about killing Soleimani months ago, said a senior U.S. official, but neither the president nor Pentagon officials were willing to countenance such an operation.
Trump’s decision to target Soleimani came as a surprise and a shock to some officials briefed on his decision, given the Pentagon’s long-standing concerns about escalation and the president’s aversion to using military force against Iran. One significant factor was the “lockstep” coordination for the operation between Pompeo and Esper, both graduates in the same class at the U.S. Military Academy, who deliberated ahead of the briefing with Trump, senior U.S. officials said. Pence also endorsed the decision, but he did not attend the meeting in Florida. But critics inside and outside the administration have questioned Pompeo’s justification for the strike based on his claims that “dozens if not hundreds” of American lives were at risk. Lawmakers left classified briefings with U.S. intelligence officials on Friday saying they heard nothing to suggest that the threat posed by the proxy forces guided by Soleimani had changed substantially in recent months. When repeatedly pressed on Sunday about the imminent nature of the threats, whether it was days or weeks away, or whether they had been foiled by the U.S. airstrike, Pompeo dismissed the questions. “If you’re an American in the region, days and weeks — this is not something that’s relevant,” Pompeo told CNN. After Trump tapped Pompeo to lead the CIA, Pompeo quickly set up an Iran Mission Center at the agency to focus intelligence-gathering efforts and operations, elevating Iran’s importance as an intelligence target. At the State Department, he is a voracious consumer of diplomatic notes and reporting on Iran, and he places the country far above other geopolitical and economic hot spots in the world. “If it’s about Iran, he will read it,” said one diplomat, referring to the massive flow of paper that crosses Pompeo’s desk. “If it’s not, good luck.” This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 6th January 2020, 10:06 AM |
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6th January 2020, 10:06 AM
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#65
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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Being against interventions isn't living in a fictional world. The net effect of Middle-East interventionism over the post-Cold War period has been to destabilise the region to the benefit of only American oil capitalists. Democratisation and advances in the Middle East over this time period have happened in spite of interventions. Non-interference is a policy that should be practiced. QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 09:54 AM) Trump took out an evil man, a known terrorist who was threatening the safety of the US and it's assets and allies. End of. As they're saying on Sky now, they had a chance to kill him before but chose not to. Trump decided the time was right now. And yet most of Trump's allies, and the man himself, had not mentioned Suleimanei's name in the public space via Twitter, once. Throws a bit of a wrench in the narrative that he was a clear and present threat if he was only being talked about behind closed doors and not in the media. I mean, the ultimate goal as to why this is happening now is to distract from impeachment. This has been done from high levels of the Trump administration and outside of that and his toadies, there isn't support for it. The side-effect of getting those American capitalist institutions who profit from war everything they wanted, the oil companies, the mercenaries, the assets as you put it, is just a bonus. There is no care at all for the lives of Iraqi and Iranian civilians who will likely die from followup actions. |
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6th January 2020, 10:10 AM
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#66
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Bitch of t seet
Joined: 2 April 2012
Posts: 27,396 User: 16,660
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 10:54 AM) Trump didn't attack a country. He took out an evil man, a known terrorist who was threatening the safety of the US and it's assets and allies. End of. As they're saying on Sky now, they had a chance to kill him before but chose not to. Trump decided the time was right now. But he killed a man on Iraqi soil. What is not clicking? That is invading the sovereinity of the country. Imagine the US striking a base in the UK to take someone out. Would that be OK? Iraq has every right to be mad, but now that they take a stance, the US threaten them with sanctions worse than Iran. What actually have they accomplished by this? They killed 1 terrorist (one they even worked with when it was convenient) who deserved it, but also gotten 2 nations riled up, Iran quitting the Nuclear Agreement of 2015 completely and American citizens being ordered to leave the region :') |
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6th January 2020, 10:21 AM
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#67
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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Some of Trump's hardline advisers are said to be telling him now to tell the Iraqis to F off and refuse to pull the US out on the grounds that "we helped rebuild Iraq"
I bet the Secret Service are wondering now how the hell they can protect Trump and the crowds at all his planned rallies and appearances during the election campaign. This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 6th January 2020, 10:25 AM |
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6th January 2020, 10:30 AM
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#68
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 08:33 AM) Well as far as I can recall there were no attempts to kill him. Maybe because the protection made it too difficult. |
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6th January 2020, 10:50 AM
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#69
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(*Tim @ Jan 6 2020, 09:47 AM) This is the real world, where the US and many other world powers have been bullying less powerful countries into doing what they want them to do in order to increase their power. Only the totalitarian ones, to make themselves safer. |
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6th January 2020, 11:51 AM
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#70
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Bitch of t seet
Joined: 2 April 2012
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 6 2020, 11:50 AM) Only the totalitarian ones, to make themselves safer. The point being? |
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6th January 2020, 12:45 PM
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#71
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 ❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
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Really tired of the endless defence of a man who has no idea what he’s doing. |
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6th January 2020, 02:25 PM
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#72
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(*Tim @ Jan 6 2020, 11:51 AM) The point being? I don't understand - that *was* the point. |
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6th January 2020, 03:20 PM
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#73
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 12:45 PM) Really tired of the endless defence of a man who has no idea what he’s doing. Of course he knows what he's doing. He rid the world of a dangerous man. |
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6th January 2020, 03:30 PM
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#74
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Bitch of t seet
Joined: 2 April 2012
Posts: 27,396 User: 16,660
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 6 2020, 03:25 PM) I don't understand - that *was* the point. So you agree that the US bullies other nations with sanctions if they risk losing their power? |
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6th January 2020, 03:34 PM
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#75
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 12:45 PM) Really tired of the endless defence of a man who has no idea what he’s doing. Well if he has no idea what he's doing then the American people will vote him out later this year. This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 6th January 2020, 03:34 PM |
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6th January 2020, 03:35 PM
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#76
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 03:20 PM) Of course he knows what he's doing. He rid the world of a dangerous man. It’s not such a binary choice as that though. It’s clear that there’s been no consideration as to the implications. It appears he was essentially advised not to take that action by people who are actually qualified to understand risks/benefits. He’s completely out of his depth at this level. Carry on seeing him as your hero though. I’d like to see you be prepared to fight on the front lines as a direct result of his ignorant actions. |
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6th January 2020, 03:41 PM
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#77
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 03:35 PM) It’s not such a binary choice as that though. It’s clear that there’s been no consideration as to the implications. It appears he was essentially advised not to take that action by people who are actually qualified to understand risks/benefits. He’s completely out of his depth at this level. Carry on seeing him as your hero though. I’d like to see you be prepared to fight on the front lines as a direct result of his ignorant actions. There will be no war. Our Foreign Secretary said so this morning on Sky News. Just a bit of bluster from Iran. They daren't risk it. America could remove Iran from the face of the earth and I believe an angry Trump would do too. How many of our allies, France, Germany, Italy etc, have condemned the killing? None. They may not have praised it much but haven't said he was wrong. This post has been edited by Crazy Chris: 6th January 2020, 03:44 PM |
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6th January 2020, 03:46 PM
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#78
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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Also to be fair, the US President is there to make the final decision, especially to kill another national in a third country. Yes he receives advice and will have considered it. Pence was all for the killing too but didn't attend the final meeting in Florida on Friday.
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6th January 2020, 03:53 PM
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#79
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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Wow, so great to gave a President prepared to commit genocide.
QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 6 2020, 03:46 PM) Also to be fair, the US President is there to make the final decision, especially to kill another national in a third country. Yes he receives advice and will have considered it. Pence was all for the killing too but didn't attend the final meeting in Florida on Friday. But it is concerning that he takes such drastic action against advice to the contrary. |
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6th January 2020, 03:55 PM
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#80
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 6 2020, 03:53 PM) Wow, so great to gave a President prepared to commit genocide. But it is concerning that he takes such drastic action against advice to the contrary. He's not afraid to take bold decisions. |
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