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11th July 2020, 01:20 PM
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#661
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 16 January 2019
Posts: 4,817 User: 82,234 |
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11th July 2020, 01:23 PM
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#662
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 20 August 2009
Posts: 8,344 User: 9,481 |
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11th July 2020, 01:23 PM
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#663
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 16 January 2019
Posts: 4,817 User: 82,234 |
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11th July 2020, 01:25 PM
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#664
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 16 January 2019
Posts: 4,817 User: 82,234 |
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11th July 2020, 03:24 PM
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#665
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,291 User: 22,665 |
It worked infinite number of times and that's why they introduced the rule change
blame Rita Ora if you want |
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11th July 2020, 07:53 PM
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#666
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is my brain across your walls?
Joined: 14 February 2009
Posts: 115,093 User: 8,300 |
I will not repeat everything again, you and everyone else have understood my points and know that the old ACR rule made the chart more varied and liquid, this is a fact, take the example I used with ROCKSTAR in my previous post, it is clear that they should return to the roots of the original ACR. Hen I literally did acknowledge that example in the post you're quoting. My point is you could just as easily find examples of songs that would stay on SCR under the old rule but not under the new rule. The only fact here is you being salty about 'Rain On Me' having less of a chance of overtaking 'ROCKSTAR' in the next few weeks. xxxx |
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11th July 2020, 11:03 PM
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#667
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 1 April 2020
Posts: 1,350 User: 104,406 |
or the OCC could just let the best selling/streaming songs each week be ranked instead of having stupid rules
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11th July 2020, 11:05 PM
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#668
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,804 User: 13,530 |
or the OCC could just let the best selling/streaming songs each week be ranked instead of having stupid rules Great idea! Let's give new music a worse chance at attaining exposure and high chart positions by allowing Shotgun and Someone You Loved to spend the best part of a year in the top 10 (because that's what they would have done....!) |
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11th July 2020, 11:37 PM
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#669
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is my brain across your walls?
Joined: 14 February 2009
Posts: 115,093 User: 8,300 |
That moment when SYL actually did spend the best part of a year in the top 10 even with ACR rules x
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11th July 2020, 11:53 PM
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#670
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 16 January 2019
Posts: 4,817 User: 82,234 |
Hen I literally did acknowledge that example in the post you're quoting. My point is you could just as easily find examples of songs that would stay on SCR under the old rule but not under the new rule. The only fact here is you being salty about 'Rain On Me' having less of a chance of overtaking 'ROCKSTAR' in the next few weeks. xxxx That is what you are saying, it was never said by me, and it is not the purpose of my analysis and claim, don't put words in my mouth. The ACR rule should go back to what it was in the beginning, this would make the songs less stable and the chart more varied and fair, since pure sales today are much lower than when Rita used to apply discounts to her iTunes songs to escape ACR (when streaming hadn't yet killed the industry). Back in 2017, the #1 song could easily sell 40-50,000 pure copies per week (see Despacito, Perfect, Shape of You...), while today's #1 song sold only 6,000 pure copies this week, which clearly proves that even if an artist lowered the price of his/hers songs on iTunes today, it won't have an effect on charts like in 2017. Discounts on iTunes stopped having an effect on the ACR rule a long time ago, due to the death of pure sales caused by streaming. That's why they should go back to the early days of the ACR rule, since in today's industry that change would make the chart fairer and less static for all artists. PS: Again I ask you to see the example I made with ROCKSTAR, as you still don't seem to understand my point (or maybe you already understand and just want to twist my words by putting other words in my mouth). This post has been edited by Adelita: 11th July 2020, 11:55 PM |
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11th July 2020, 11:59 PM
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#671
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is my brain across your walls?
Joined: 14 February 2009
Posts: 115,093 User: 8,300 |
Adelita logic: > I want downloads to count towards the ACR rule as they have an effect on things and would therefore make it more fair! > Downloads are so low that they now don't have any effect on anything and haven't for years Which is it xx |
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12th July 2020, 12:11 AM
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#672
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,804 User: 13,530 |
Someone You Loved's chart run on the "old rules" top 200 without ACR and the three-track rule:
NE (24/01/2019) | 49-18-12-9-4-3-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-4-3-4-3-3-3-3-3-4-5-5-8-5-5-6-6-7-9-8-10-9-7-4-5-5-4-4-7-10-8-7-16-13-24-45-6-7-8-11-10-8-9-7-9-11-13-14-13-15-16-16-17-20-21-19-19-24-29-24-26-26-22-24-... 1st underline = this was the week it was first on ACR on the official top 100. 2nd underline = this was the week it returned to SCR on the official top 100 after a 25% increase in streams the week before. 3rd underline = this was the week it returned to ACR on the official top 100. green = would've been top 10 without the Christmas songs above I think that's correct - it took me ages to double check some of the positions Comparisons: OFFICIAL vs OLD RULES 80 vs 78 = top 100 weeks (the initial week at #100 didn't happen, nor did its re-entry at #66 - it charted a week later) 31 vs 51 = top 10 weeks (43 consecutive weeks in the top 10!! and only knocked out by Christmas songs! just robbed of a full year top 10 on the old rules ) |
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12th July 2020, 12:15 AM
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#673
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,804 User: 13,530 |
Side by side, the official chart run on top, the "old rules" chart run below.
NE (22/11/2018) | 100-x-66-29-13-10-09-03-03-01-01-01-01-01-01-01-02-03-04-03-04-03-03-03-03-11-14-10-13-14-19-22-25-23-19-23-21-27-28-24-19-23-18-20-23-25-31-28-26-34-27-38-58-15-07-07-10-09-06-07-06-06-08-10-28-30-36-36-36-37-44-43-37-38-45-47-46-46-42-40-45-... NE (24/01/2019) | 000-x-00-49-18-12-09-04-03-01-01-01-01-01-01-01-02-03-04-03-04-03-03-03-03-03-04-05-05-08-05-05-06-06-07-09-08-10-09-07-04-05-05-04-04-07-10-08-07-16-13-24-45-06-07-08-11-10-08-09-07-09-11-13-14-13-15-16-16-17-20-21-19-19-24-29-24-26-26-22-24-... Once again: 1st underline = this was the week it was first on ACR on the official top 100. 2nd underline = this was the week it returned to SCR on the official top 100 after a 25% increase in streams the week before. 3rd underline = this was the week it returned to ACR on the official top 100. |
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12th July 2020, 12:17 AM
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#674
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 16 January 2019
Posts: 4,817 User: 82,234 |
Adelita logic: > I want downloads to count towards the ACR rule as they have an effect on things and would therefore make it more fair! Which is it xx Again lying about what I said and twisting my words... I never said that pure sales have an effect on charts these days, read my previous post, it's not so hard to understand. In short, what I basically said is that they should go back to the ACR rule of the beginning, using the sum of pure sales + streaming to measure if a song is growing or if it's stable or if it's dropping, and therefore should be punished on its tenth week on the chart. ROCKSTAR is the best example for this, cuz using the sum of pure + streaming (like at the beginning of the ACR rule, back in 2017), this song would already be in DCL-2, and not in SCR as it is today, which doesn't reflect its real popularity, since in the general sum (which is what really matters for the UK Chart), this song is already in its second week of decline. It makes no sense for them to count pure sales for the Official Chart and not include them in the ACR rule. They should choose once and for all: either make the chart totally streaming based, banning pure sales once and for all, or include pure sales in the ACR rule, since they use it in the sum for the UK Chart. |
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12th July 2020, 12:19 AM
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#675
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,804 User: 13,530 |
Again lying about what I said and twisting my words... I never said that pure sales have an effect on charts these days, read my previous post, it's not so hard to understand. In short, what I basically said is that they should go back to the ACR rule of the beginning, using the sum of pure sales + streaming to measure if a song is growing or if it's stable or if it's dropping, and therefore should be punished on its tenth week on the chart. ROCKSTAR is the best example for this, cuz using the sum of pure + streaming (like at the beginning of the ACR rule, back in 2017), this song would already be in DCL-2, and not in SCR as it is today, which doesn't reflect its real popularity, since in the general sum (which is what really matters for the UK Chart), this song is already in its second week of decline. It makes no sense for them to count pure sales for the Official Chart and not include them in the ACR rule. They should choose once and for all: either make the chart totally streaming based, banning pure sales once and for all, or include pure sales in the ACR rule, since they use it in the sum for the UK Chart. But please answer this - what do pure sales actually have to do with ACR at all? Why should they be included in the calculations when they are not affected by ACR in action? |
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12th July 2020, 12:31 AM
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#676
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 16 January 2019
Posts: 4,817 User: 82,234 |
But please answer this - what do pure sales actually have to do with ACR at all? Why should they be included in the calculations when they are not affected by ACR in action? Pure sales aren't affected at the present time by ACR, but should be included in the ACR rule and should also be affected by it, but only in a symbolic way, just like when a song enters ACR, the streaming is halved on the UK Chart, but the sales from the streaming remain intact for BPI, which certifies the songs to each new mark reached. It's so simple to understand. |
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12th July 2020, 12:35 AM
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#677
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,804 User: 13,530 |
Pure sales aren't affected at the present time by ACR, but should be included in the ACR rule and should also be affected by it, but only in a symbolic way, just like when a song enters ACR, the streaming is halved on the UK Chart, but the sales from the streaming remain intact for BPI, which certifies the songs to each new mark reached. It's so simple to understand. So pure sales should be halved too? What purpose would that have? The reason they're not already halved because pure sales don't linger on and on like streaming. The sales chart is way faster. |
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12th July 2020, 12:49 AM
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#678
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 16 January 2019
Posts: 4,817 User: 82,234 |
So pure sales should be halved too? What purpose would that have? The reason they're not already halved because pure sales don't linger on and on like streaming. The sales chart is way faster. Yes, pure sales should also be split in half after a song goes into ACR, but only for UK Charts purposes, not for BPI's certifications. However, they should use the sum of pure sales + streaming to measure the rule, and not rely solely on streaming for this. This streaming basis should only be applied to the streaming chart (Audio Streaming Chart) and not to the general chart, which also encompasses pure sales. They should also summarize the UK Chart in only 3 factors (similar to the US chart): general sales (Official Singles Chart Top 100), pure sales (digital + physical) and streaming chart (audio+video streams). This post has been edited by Adelita: 12th July 2020, 12:58 AM |
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12th July 2020, 12:51 AM
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#679
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,804 User: 13,530 |
Yes, pure sales should also be split in half after a song goes into ACR. However, they should use the sum of pure sales + streaming to measure the rule, and not rely solely on streaming for this. This streaming basis should only be applied to the streaming chart (Audio Streaming Chart) and not to the general chart, which also encompasses pure sales. Why though? What reasoning is there to add pure sales to the entire ACR process? As I just said, songs don't linger on pure sales for as long as they do on streaming. That's the reason ACR was invented - to stop streaming completely slowing down the charts. |
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12th July 2020, 01:00 AM
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#680
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is my brain across your walls?
Joined: 14 February 2009
Posts: 115,093 User: 8,300 |
Again lying about what I said and twisting my words... I never said that pure sales have an effect on charts these days, read my previous post, it's not so hard to understand. In short, what I basically said is that they should go back to the ACR rule of the beginning, using the sum of pure sales + streaming to measure if a song is growing or if it's stable or if it's dropping, and therefore should be punished on its tenth week on the chart. ROCKSTAR is the best example for this, cuz using the sum of pure + streaming (like at the beginning of the ACR rule, back in 2017), this song would already be in DCL-2, and not in SCR as it is today, which doesn't reflect its real popularity, since in the general sum (which is what really matters for the UK Chart), this song is already in its second week of decline. It makes no sense for them to count pure sales for the Official Chart and not include them in the ACR rule. They should choose once and for all: either make the chart totally streaming based, banning pure sales once and for all, or include pure sales in the ACR rule, since they use it in the sum for the UK Chart. If you're not saying pure sales have an effect on the charts then why do you so desperately want the rule to be changed to include them xx As I said I already acknowledged the example of 'ROCKSTAR'. Do you want to acknowledge what I said about how changing the rule would create examples of the exact opposite scenario and therefore not actually make anything "fairer", it'd just arbitrarily change what the criteria are for avoiding ACR? Scenario 1: a song increases in streams but the increase is offset by a decrease in pure sales (counts as an increase with the current rule, but a decrease with the old rule). That's what's happened with 'ROCKSTAR'. Scenario 2: a song decreases in streams but the decrease is offset by an increase in pure sales (counts as a decrease with the current rule, but an increase with the old rule). This would most likely happen as a result of tactical price reductions which is presumably what led the OCC to change the rule in the first place, but there's no reason it couldn't just happen completely at random in a week where a song is essentially stable, just their numbers moving in the opposite directions to the 'ROCKSTAR' example. Realistically, since pure sales are so low these days, the only time either of these things will ever happen is if a song's streams are pretty much stable (to within maybe a couple of thousand units either way at absolute most, more likely only a few hundred or so) in which case it's a pretty arbitrary outcome no matter which rule you go with. You're effectively saying you want that arbitrary power to lie in the hands of a few hundred extra people downloading a song, rather than a few thousand extra people streaming a song. Great. It would barely affect anything in the long run either way, there's absolutely no way you think this is an actual big problem and you're not just making this argument because you're annoyed at the specific example of 'ROCKSTAR'. You can claim I'm twisting your words all you want but the context of you ranting about this is extremely obvious from the fact that, you know, literally all of your previous contributions to this forum are ranting about tiny things that may *gasp* very slightly affect Lady Gaga's chart success. |
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