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 Labour, and allegations of anti-semitism |
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 30th October 2020, 11:33 AM
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#161
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,604 User: 88 
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QUOTE(Moriz Oculiz @ Oct 30 2020, 03:01 AM)  Thing is though, I disagree that the report is damning. It notes the improvements the Party were making, its main concern is with the historical cases of Livingstone and Bromley, and it fits with the other evidence that suggests that once a procedure was put in place and Formby elected, the incidents dropped off. The report also mentioned nothing about the Labour staffers that hampered Corbyn's efforts to deal with it, as far as I can see. That's a failing of that report. I don't want to get too conspiratorial or whataboutery about the commission itself but the EHRC refusing to investigate Tory Islamophobia a few months ago really does stand out. So yes, fighting this is a fight only an old man with no future in leading a party would take (because politically I can't see it shifting the needle of public opinion too far no matter what happens), but I can understand, after your team put in a lot of effort to respond to the claims, being indignant at the headline that 'this proves there was anti-semitism', because it's a lot more complex than that. Most damning thing I can say about Corbyn is the coverup with that mural, but for a man who has spent his lifetime fighting racism, he'd want to clear his name generally and work to make sure smears like this can't be used against future leaders who speak truth to power. Also, the Labour Party aren't officially saying why Corbyn is suspended, they need to - and Article 10 in the report appears to protect Corbyn on the basis of his statement. This could take a while, he may be found to have been unlawfully suspended.  The Labour Party has been the first party openly scrutinised as being racist since the BNP. If that is not damaging then I don't know what is, regardless of what else the EHRC might have done, now is not the time to say "well I disagree". Literally within hours of the publication, Corbyn came out and openly said to the media marks which were called problematic (and illegal) in the report. This is why Corbyn has got himself suspended, because the guy just cannot help himself. It's part of the reason Labour are in this mess, although it is not entirely his fault, it just accelerated under his leadership. His behaviour around the issue over years is problematic. I'm not suggesting Corbyn is anti-semite, only that he either has huge blind spots, or he is not as remotely 'principled' as he and supporters make out and highly pragmatic around the issue of antisemitism if he perceives it as advantageous. But that's too tactical for Corbyn. I think it is most probable that Corbyn simply does not understand the issues because he's (willfully) ignorant. I just wish the dirty laundry was not being aired up public as the Tories will be loving this. But I suppose it is better now than in 2023. |
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30th October 2020, 11:48 PM
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#162
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 Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
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I would say anyone in his position would look to defend himself from accusations tbf.
It is ironic that the party that set up the EHRC becomes the party being investigated. |
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5th November 2020, 10:46 AM
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#163
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 6 September 2017
Posts: 11,843 User: 39,568
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How labour are investigated for this and Conservatives have not been investigated for islamophobia I do not know!?!?
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5th November 2020, 10:59 AM
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#164
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,146 User: 22,895 
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The tories haven't let themselves be investigated for anything.
The whole thing is bonkers. The powers that be have only investigated ONE party for anything, and have then suggested on zero proof that anything bad they've found is a) limited to that party and b) now its been found there, is solved & we don't need to look anywhere else for any. |
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5th November 2020, 11:04 AM
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#165
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 I Drink Wine
Joined: 12 April 2015
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QUOTE(spiceboy @ Nov 5 2020, 10:46 AM) How labour are investigated for this and Conservatives have not been investigated for islamophobia I do not know!?!? Unfortunately the EHRC are not going to investigate because of the long awaited independent investigation commissioned by the Tory party is supposedly taking place (it's not). |
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17th November 2020, 09:50 PM
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#166
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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Corbyn has been reinstated.
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17th November 2020, 10:49 PM
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#167
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,160 User: 5,138
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Justice at last
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17th November 2020, 11:59 PM
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#168
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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Statement from Jewish Labour: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/sta...orbyns-apology/
QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 17 2020, 10:49 PM) Justice at last He was completely out of order for what he said at the time of the report, but the clarification makes it clear that he hasn't done anything that would warrant suspension. Indeed one of the recommendations of the report was the LOTO's office not being involved with the disciplinary process - which Starmer claimed he was happy to implement and yet he took the action to suspend Corbyn, directly ignoring one of the EHRCs key recommendations. Furthermore, one of the key findings from the report: QUOTE 10. EHRC did not find that the Labour Party is institutionally antisemitic. Something you wouldn't know watching the BBC of course. |
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18th November 2020, 01:03 AM
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#169
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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As much as centrist political nerds are spelling out doom with Corbyn being allowed back in, this is the right option for the future. It probably won't cut through to the public nearly as much as his suspension did, and if he was left outside the party there was a lot more potential for the party to alienate its left base (and the issue of why he was suspended is no longer an issue). His updated statement shows he isn't going to rock the boat further and statements like the above from Jewish Voice For Labour indicate a positive trend.
just hope this stat goes down again to give some truth to that prediction: |
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18th November 2020, 09:55 AM
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#170
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
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Indeed, I didn't see this as the first news story anywhere yesterday so the public at large probably think hes still suspended.
And yes the centrist nerds as you call them make themselves out to be lighter than light liberals when we all know they have fascist tendencies. |
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18th November 2020, 11:37 AM
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#171
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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ugh, never mind then, Starmer wants to keep this dragging on, he's not restoring the whip even though Corbyn should have it back automatically according to the rules of lifting a suspension.
Hard to see how it won't end with Corbyn having the whip back eventually so time to start a factional war and have that go on for a few months to allow the media their Labour disaster headlines yay I hate this if he was following operation draw a line under it then accepting Corbyn's return and giving the media no more scope for interest, just answer all questions with 'yes, we are implementing the EHRC's recommendations according to x timescale' and we'd have been FINE QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 18 2020, 09:55 AM) Indeed, I didn't see this as the first news story anywhere yesterday so the public at large probably think hes still suspended. And yes the centrist nerds as you call them make themselves out to be lighter than light liberals when we all know they have fascist tendencies. I'd never say fascist tendencies (because we want to win them over!), but they can be useful idiots that real fascists can exploit. It's more that despite their claims, dishonesty about actually wanting things to get better for everyone should the solution affect their bottom line. |
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18th November 2020, 11:52 AM
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#172
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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I don't think having the whip restored is all that important to the membership, being reinstated in the party was the key thing here. Besides JC has always been independently minded and voted against the Labour Party through much of the time that they were in government so being an 'Independent MP' who happens to be a member of the Labour Party is probably an accurate reflection of who he is.
We're after all talking about geeky minutiae that the GP couldn't care less about. |
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18th November 2020, 11:58 AM
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#173
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929 |
I really do hope you're right, and if so, the amount of cut through that'll matter will be minimal, though I would still expect another few big headlines of Labour infighting in the months ahead with this route.
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18th November 2020, 01:26 PM
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#174
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,160 User: 5,138
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I foresaw Jezza triumphantly returning to the commons past Starmer at PMQs today so maybe he wanted to stop that lol
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18th November 2020, 05:36 PM
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#175
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(💀 Mori 💀 @ Nov 18 2020, 11:58 AM) I really do hope you're right, and if so, the amount of cut through that'll matter will be minimal, though I would still expect another few big headlines of Labour infighting in the months ahead with this route. Good. The more Labour infighting before the next election the better the chance of the Tories winning again. |
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18th November 2020, 05:52 PM
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#176
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,146 User: 22,895
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The Tories who make you jump through hoops to get your benefits...
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18th November 2020, 06:02 PM
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#177
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(J00psichord @ Nov 18 2020, 05:52 PM) The Tories who make you jump through hoops to get your benefits... Well they have to be a bit careful. Too many taking the mickey these days. |
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18th November 2020, 06:19 PM
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#178
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
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QUOTE(Sixth Sense @ Nov 18 2020, 05:36 PM) Good. The more Labour infighting before the next election the better the chance of the Tories winning again. The Tories will need every advantage they can get following a disastrous Brexit and the handling of the pandemic. |
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18th November 2020, 07:13 PM
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#179
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there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,146 User: 22,895
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QUOTE(Sixth Sense @ Nov 18 2020, 06:02 PM) Well they have to be a bit careful. Too many taking the mickey these days. I have no words. You've been on benefits for literal decades. |
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18th November 2020, 08:31 PM
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#180
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WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,604 User: 88
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By the time 2024 comes around, this debacle will be a flash in the pan. I can see why the left of the Party are peeved, but actually Doctor Blind makes a great point in that Corbyn has acted as an Independent for pretty much his entire political career. I guess they have run the numbers and banked that having the support of the Jewish community is better for the long term. I do think it is also partly that Corbyn and the Labour Party as it is currently cannot co-exist. I think eventually Starmer will go full nuclear in 2021 and just tell every union to back them or f*** off.
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