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Coronavirus Part 4, The Final Chapter?

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Brett-Butler View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 06:36 PM Post #1
Howdy, disco citizens Joined: 16 January 2010 Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455	A recontinuation of the Coronavirus/COVID-19 thread, for discussion of the pandemic from the news/political perspective. An interesting story regarding the use of one of the alleged treatments for COVID-19 has emerged in the past few days. A few weeks ago, the World Health Organization halted the trial of hydroxychloroquine after a study came out published in reputable journals claimed that it led to a higher death rate. However, an investigation carried out has led to the paper being retracted, after questions had been raised about the methodology used, and the company behind the study was found to be somewhat suspect (read the entire article. It's really eye-opening). The WHO have restarted the trial of the drug as a result. Obviously I should state that so far there is no sustained medical evidence for hydroxychloroquine as a bona-fide treatment for COVID-19/Coronavirus (looking at you, Flumpy Carrot), but if it turns out that it is an effective treatment, and there ended up being a delay in people getting the proper treatment as result leading to further casualties, then a lot of people will have a lot of questions to answer.


TheSnake View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 07:38 PM Post #2
Say that hiss with your chest, and... Joined: 24 May 2016 Posts: 18,438 User: 23,308	The mass gatherings associated with the recent protests are almost certainly going to raise the R number. The UK government should therefore rethink its R number predictions and rethink the speed of its lockdown easing programme in light of the effect of the protests, so that the second wave does not overwhelm the NHS. Other countries should do the same. The protests also mean in general that countries should ideally be easing lockdown more slowly I think than they otherwise would have. About the hydroxychloroquine, I saw a news report about the fact it is being used quite a bit in Turkey. This post has been edited by The Snake: Jun 3 2020, 08:11 PM


crazy chris View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 07:52 PM Post #3
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 22,001 User: 53	Very sad news that Chester zoo may go bust and never re-open. I can't see why zoos can't re-open with SD. Appparently they've been told they may never be allowed to re-open. As the UK’s biggest and most popular charity zoo, we’ve tried to stay positive during this pandemic. Our conservationists have continued to prevent extinction, our virtual days have cheered up the nation, and our learning resources have helped thousands of home-schooling families. We wanted to remain a beacon of hope. We really tried. But now, as the government has ordered that we may have to stay closed indefinitely, it hurts us to say that this crisis has left us fighting for our future. Not being able to open, despite being a huge outdoor site with all the necessary safety measures in place, is having a devastating impact on our much-loved zoo. We’re heading towards debt in excess of £24m by the end of 2020 – this will financially cripple us. We need to raise £1.6m each month to keep going. Meanwhile, we’re having to sit back and watch as people are piling onto beaches and into public parks, where there is no way of controlling numbers, no way of guaranteeing people are socially distanced and no way of ensuring safety. We, can do all of this. We look on as, from this week, private gardens open up, while our own 128 acres of gardens and 16km of pathways remain closed, and under enormous financial pressure. We REFUSE to cut corners when it comes to caring for the animals We REFUSE to give up on our fight to prevent extinction And because of that, we’ve now reached the point where we desperately NEED YOUR HELP We need you to SAVE OUR ZOO... To donate go to www.justgiving.com/campaign/ChesterZooFuture For anything else go to www.chesterzoo.org/saveourzoo


TheSnake View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 08:13 PM Post #4
Say that hiss with your chest, and... Joined: 24 May 2016 Posts: 18,438 User: 23,308	Not sure if I completely agree with the concept of zoos anyway tbh. I know some of it is valuable conservation work but most of the animals would probably be happier in the wild where they can roam over a large area than in an enclosure, even a large one. I suppose they are good for the education of children though as mentioned in Chester Zoo's message as you quoted below. QUOTE I can't see why zoos can't re-open with SD. I suppose they could let school groups visit zoos while still not being open to the public. That is one option.... This post has been edited by The Snake: Jun 3 2020, 08:20 PM


Rooney View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 09:06 PM Post #5
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,596 User: 88	Chester Zoo is only the start. They will have been in financial trouble before but the pandemic will have heightend the matter. Don't know how I feel about zoos either myself, but I have some fond memories of Chester Zoo.


blacksquare View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 09:17 PM Post #6
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 25 July 2016 Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471	This is such a joke.


Suedehead2 View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 09:21 PM Post #7
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,653 User: 3,272	Erm, so he wants them to return but also insists that they should go into quarantine for 14 days before they can do anything. And I don't suppose it's occurred to him that here may be other factors that drove them away in the first place. Utterly clueless.


Rooney View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 09:33 PM Post #8
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,596 User: 88	QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 3 2020, 10:21 PM) Erm, so he wants them to return but also insists that they should go into quarantine for 14 days before they can do anything. And I don't suppose it's occurred to him that here may be other factors that drove them away in the first place. Utterly clueless. Same cut of cloth of Rees-Mogg who wanted Parliment back so quickly, yet the irony is there might now be an outbreak amongst MPs again.


Steve201 View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 10:14 PM Post #9
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,140 User: 5,138	There was one MP who's already been told to self isolate after feeling unwell at the dispatch box today.


blacksquare View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 11:10 PM Post #10
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 25 July 2016 Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471


Rooney View member profile	Jun 3 2020, 11:45 PM Post #11
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,596 User: 88	QUOTE(blacksquare @ Jun 4 2020, 12:10 AM) As awful as it sounds I don't think we can read too much in to the death statistics. While of course they are bad, each country has their own mechanism of reporting the data so it's like comparing apples and oranges. The R values and rates/levels of infections vs other countries are much more useful imo. It demonstrates how badly the Government have done don't get me wrong, but I also think the bigger issue is why we seem to be not following the same pattern. For all intents and purposes we have largely followed the same trajectory as Italy and Spain, but for some reason while the death lowered at a steady pace in those two countries, the one in England seems to have levelled off completely and isn't budging. Admittedly I haven't seen too much recently from the press conferences, but even Vallace and Whitty can't provide an answer. We don't know how long the people have been positively tested for Covid-19 for example. While we might be governed by a bunch of muppets our healthcare system is at least adequeate, so it doesn't seem to be lack of resource. Could be be have a population more susepticle to triggering harsh symptoms which you would be assume be linked to society e.g. greater obesity, larger BAME population, diabeties.


Harve View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 12:55 AM Post #12
Cœur poids plume Joined: 3 November 2007 Posts: 18,129 User: 4,718	QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 3 2020, 11:45 PM) the bigger issue is why we seem to be not following the same pattern. larger BAME population From a distance, but having spoken with family and friends and listening to analysis on the excellent New Statesman podcast, it seems like that everything that was a rule in France was merely a guideline in Britain. Over a million €135 fines were issued here, but I don't think authorities in Britain have had that kind of power to enforce concrete rules. The rules weren't complicated - you could fit the rules onto a page, and indeed you had to print and sign this page everytime you left home as a reminder. Even though lockdown enforcement is undoubtedly more lax in Britain, the ambiguity allowed police to make it up as they go along to some extent, leading to some clear cases of individual members of the police force overstepping their authority going viral. And no doubt the flipside is that many more cases of letting clear breaches of guidelines happen (that Westminster Bridge clapping for carers video, anyone?), most of which had no reason to be filmed. Loads of moralising on social media, too. I don't want to automatically put 2+2 together as I have no idea of the effect of this in terms of epidemiology, but this is the main behavioural difference I see. And then there's the easing of the lockdown. England will never also never have that absolutely glorious 11th May moment* that most of France and other countries had - the lockdown in England seems to be being eased by adding on niche exceptions on a weekly basis - reopening bloody garden centres or restarting horse racing only affects a minority but no doubt constant, seemingly arbitrary signals such as this encourages others to behave as they see fit, too. Reopening places of mass gathering such as schools before allowing friends to visit each other at home or launching your StopCovid tracing app smacks of forcing the the economy to restart (as necessary as it is!) over making decisions from a medical standpoint, or indeed implementing measures that help businesses and the wider economy work better remotely. And that's without mentioning the very guy that wrote the rules breaking them with the virus and there being no consequences at all. It's just awful communication all round from a government that makes it up as it goes along and whose main concern is quashing uncomplimentary headlines rather than having a long term plan. Governing by focus group is ineffective. No second wave since then btw. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As an aside, I don't know where you're getting the ethnic minority population claim from as most European countries haven't collected ethnicity statistics for decades. This post has been edited by Harve*: Jun 4 2020, 12:57 AM


Dobbo View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 07:41 AM Post #13
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 4 November 2013 Posts: 30,513 User: 20,053	Final chapter? We can only hope but we're not even halfway thru the book!


Popchartfreak View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 07:48 AM Post #14
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 18 July 2012 Posts: 22,812 User: 17,376	QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 3 2020, 10:21 PM) Erm, so he wants them to return but also insists that they should go into quarantine for 14 days before they can do anything. And I don't suppose it's occurred to him that here may be other factors that drove them away in the first place. Utterly clueless. Not to worry, he's just offered visa-free temporary access to the UK for Hong Kong citizens cos he feels so sorry for them about to lose their agreed-rights as per M. Thatcher's abandonment and trust in China to stick to the agreement. All those fruits rotting on orchards aren't going to get picked on their own! Sorted.


Suedehead2 View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 09:51 AM Post #15
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,653 User: 3,272	QUOTE(Rooney @ Jun 3 2020, 10:33 PM) Same cut of cloth of Rees-Mogg who wanted Parliment back so quickly, yet the irony is there might now be an outbreak amongst MPs again. After the farce of Tuesday's votes on Mogg's proposals, the government has performed a partial U-turn already. They will now allow MPs to vote electronically if they are unable to attend the Commons. However, they are not restoring the right of MPs to attend by video link, thereby leaving dozens of members unable to do their job properly. Yet another measure to add to the list of things that would have elicited a very different response from the press if it was a Labour government doing it.


Brett-Butler View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 10:43 AM Post #16
Howdy, disco citizens Joined: 16 January 2010 Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455	QUOTE(Dobbo @ Jun 4 2020, 08:41 AM) Final chapter? We can only hope but we're not even halfway thru the book! I was keeping the subheading in line with other subheadings, which reference a movie based upon that number. This one was based upon Friday The 13th Part IV - The Final Chapter. Of course, as we all know about 10 movies later, it wasn’t.


Silas View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 11:31 AM Post #17
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,075 User: 3,474	QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 4 2020, 11:51 AM) After the farce of Tuesday's votes on Mogg's proposals, the government has performed a partial U-turn already. They will now allow MPs to vote electronically if they are unable to attend the Commons. However, they are not restoring the right of MPs to attend by video link, thereby leaving dozens of members unable to do their job properly. Yet another measure to add to the list of things that would have elicited a very different response from the press if it was a Labour government doing it. As was also pointed out by the SNP, Holyrood (and I assume the other devolved admins) are continuing their hybrid approaches and voting takes 30 seconds. Not 45 minutes. Westminster is not fit for purpose


Dobbo View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 11:36 AM Post #18
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 4 November 2013 Posts: 30,513 User: 20,053	QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jun 4 2020, 11:43 AM) I was keeping the subheading in line with other subheadings, which reference a movie based upon that number. This one was based upon Friday The 13th Part IV - The Final Chapter. Of course, as we all know about 10 movies later, it wasn’t. I see. Those references totally flew over my head then


TheSnake View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 12:11 PM Post #19
Say that hiss with your chest, and... Joined: 24 May 2016 Posts: 18,438 User: 23,308	QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jun 3 2020, 11:14 PM) There was one MP who's already been told to self isolate after feeling unwell at the dispatch box today. Steve, agree with the message of both protests of course but did you see the contrasts between the pictures of protests in Edinburgh and Belfast in terms of social distancing! https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edin...t-fife-52915537 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52917950 Very worrying for NI in terms of coronavirus spread


Steve201 View member profile	Jun 4 2020, 12:25 PM Post #20
Shakin Stevens Joined: 29 December 2007 Posts: 46,140 User: 5,138	I seen them, can understand why people want to protest but seems likely it'll lead to more cases but maybe we will be lucky!