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 The Official Labour Foot-Shoot Thread, Mk II |
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 Feb 22 2024, 12:44 PM
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#1801
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,798 User: 17,376 
  
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What Simon said, plus everyone has turned on the Speaker to try and look good out of it and push some faux outrage. I think there's a GE coming and some interested parties are flailing for ways to dent the polls as are. Didn't work but it'll get a new speaker out of it.
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Feb 22 2024, 01:00 PM
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#1802
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,594 User: 88
     
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Feb 22 2024, 08:50 AM)  Those who write this off as politicking by the snp don’t see the importance of the issue imo! You’re blinded by the single issue once again. It was a pure political play by the SNP. Not saying it isn’t a serious issue, but they’ve thrown their toys out of the pram as it was designed to cause tensions in Labour. We’ve got all this drama over a completely meaningless vote, which the government will ignore and Hamas and Israel will also ignore. |
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Feb 22 2024, 01:11 PM
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#1803
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,011 User: 18,639
     
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Feb 22 2024, 01:00 PM) You’re blinded by the single issue once again. It was a pure political play by the SNP. Not saying it isn’t a serious issue, but they’ve thrown their toys out of the pram as it was designed to cause tensions in Labour. We’ve got all this drama over a completely meaningless vote, which the government will ignore and Hamas and Israel will also ignore. 100%. Sorry to say, Steve, but you are very naive when it comes to politics. Let's say that it WASN'T playing politics (which it was, see above posts), and they passed it unanimously. Tell me ... what changes materially? On thr same token, say the USA ans UK withdraw their ships from the red sea, as you want. What happens? Total degredation of global shipping and more and more tatacks on US bases, which means more of a chance of global conflict. Your answer to that of course is, well, the bases shoulsn't be there anyway. Again, naive. They're there. That's not changing anytime soon. |
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Feb 22 2024, 03:34 PM
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#1804
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,053 User: 3,474
   
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The SNP has three opposition day motions. This is the second of this parliamentary term and the second they have used to table a motion on a ceasefire in Gaza. This isn’t about showing up Labour (get real the plastic Tories show themselves up daily without our help) they have been very consistent in their opposition to the disproportional actions of Israel and the war crimes committed against the civilians in Gaza. The Scottish Gov continues to fund the UN organisation that the UK Gov defunded for example. Our FM has family in Gaza. This is deeply personal for the party, this isn’t about playing petty politics. There’s people dying ffs
The row is because former Labour MP Hoyle was blackmailed by the Labour Party to throw parliamentary convention and rules out the window to save face for Labour by allowing a wrecking amendment from the opposition on the SNPs opposition day The only party politicking here is from Labour. Scared of their own backbenchers they have made the speaker of the house‘s position untenable |
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Feb 22 2024, 05:50 PM
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#1805
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,405 User: 12,929            
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imagine playing politics as a politician
My read is that this does seem out of line for Labour to dodge what would be (imo) valid criticisms over not calling for a ceasefire in the precise way the SNP worded it but rather this loose two-sided version that, while a welcome advance from their pro-Israel position months ago is great for them to help Israel eventually absolve culpability for the deaths in Gaza. An 'immediate humanitarian ceasefire' feels like too much qualifying and crucially the whole amendment removed condemning 'collective punishment on Palestinian civilians' - which is what Israel is doing and is a war crime that they should be standing trial for at the ICJ. Now whether or not the various proclamations from UK parties carry any weight or not in solving the conflict, it's still a valuable moral barometer for how the parties will act on this and future foreign policy. It doesn't give me confidence in Labour's future foreign policy that they have benefited from hamstringing the Speaker to avoid being embarassed and divided and looking immoral over the conflict - and it gives the Tories and the SNP a stick to beat Labour with down the track. The mess of Parliamentary rules that have been flouted from this have been a disgrace, not just the Speaker giving weight to Labour but the Conservatives then cynically avoiding the vote to cause this division. It seems way out of line that an amendment can be entirely replaced and deprioritised, especially if the entire point of the opposition day is to give an opposition party their say in Parliament - on which I agree, the SNP have been consistent and right on this issue, their amendment should have passed. If the Speaker resigns, it's certainly significant, no matter how ineffectual the policy-making is. |
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Feb 22 2024, 06:22 PM
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#1806
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,114 User: 5,138
 
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QUOTE(Anita Hanjaab @ Feb 22 2024, 01:11 PM) 100%. Sorry to say, Steve, but you are very naive when it comes to politics. Let's say that it WASN'T playing politics (which it was, see above posts), and they passed it unanimously. Tell me ... what changes materially? On thr same token, say the USA ans UK withdraw their ships from the red sea, as you want. What happens? Total degredation of global shipping and more and more tatacks on US bases, which means more of a chance of global conflict. Your answer to that of course is, well, the bases shoulsn't be there anyway. Again, naive. They're there. That's not changing anytime soon. Well sure what’s the point of parliament then we should all just leave the election winning party to it if these debates don’t matter. The only way to put pressure on the governing party in the FPTP system is to have debates like this as one way of making the government amend their positions. Obviously this suited the snp but that’s how all political debates occur and parties reach their positions by drawing red lines. Playing Party politics as Rooney said but sure has the snps position not been well known for months now? Or do they not have principles or in Westminster do the snps position not matter? Exactly why the snp exist imo! All the centrists who just so happen to support Labour or hope the Tory gov falls just shove it all under the carpet by saying ‘oh nothing will change anyway because of this’ as it serves their arguement. This post has been edited by Steve201: Feb 22 2024, 06:32 PM |
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Feb 22 2024, 09:36 PM
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#1807
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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QUOTE(Iz 🧊 @ Feb 22 2024, 05:50 PM) An 'immediate humanitarian ceasefire' feels like too much qualifying and crucially the whole amendment removed condemning 'collective punishment on Palestinian civilians' - which is what Israel is doing and is a war crime that they should be standing trial for at the ICJ. Yes, but as we know, Keir Starmer is totally cool with Israel committing war crimes and said in October last year 'Israel does 'have the right' to cut off power and water in Gaza'. I agree that the SNP were clearly laying a trap for Labour, something the Conservatives were initially keen to support (but backed out when it appeared that they were just as split), but I do think that ultimately nobody comes out of this looking great. On all sides what should have been a serious debate was hijacked as a cheap opportunity to attack political opponents. My guess is that Hoyle took the action he did to nullify that as much as he could and it completely backfired. Interestingly I've seen that in 2009, the last time that the Speaker resigned, Michael Martin was facing a No Confidence motion signed by 22 MPs. Lindsay Hoyle has currently got a No Confidence motion backed by 67 MPs. It's not looking great for him.. |
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Feb 22 2024, 09:56 PM
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#1808
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,114 User: 5,138
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Is 67 not the amount needed to list him and they are on 60 currently? So 1/10 MPs have no confidence? Feel sorry for Hoyle it’s Starmer that’s pulling the strings here!
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Feb 22 2024, 10:06 PM
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#1809
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 21 February 2021
Posts: 3,542 User: 124,514
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There is a country consisting of two words, one being 'United' that could end this horrific genocide tomorrow, and it's not the post Brexit minnow tank that I live in.
Of course we should stop selling weapons to Israel and apply soft pressure but although I care about this conflict I'm all a bit meh about parliament goings on. |
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Feb 22 2024, 10:15 PM
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#1810
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,011 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Smint @ Feb 22 2024, 10:06 PM) There is a country consisting of two words, one being 'United' that could end this horrific genocide tomorrow, and it's not the post Brexit minnow tank that I live in. Of course we should stop selling weapons to Israel and apply soft pressure but although I care about this conflict I'm all a bit meh about parliament goings on. PREACH!!! |
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Feb 28 2024, 12:49 PM
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#1811
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,114 User: 5,138
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"Stephen Flynn, the SNP leader at Westminster, says the horror of the situation demands the Commons has a say. And it should demand an immediate ceasefire. Does the PM share President Biden’s confidence that this could happen from Monday.
Sunak says there has been progress, and the government is urging all sides to seize the opportunity. Flynn says we are almost five months from the start of this conflict. On three occasions the UK has abstained at the UN when it could have voted for a ceasefire. If it comes to the UN again, will the UK vote for a ceasefire. Sunak says the UK supports the US’s draft motion at the UN. But a ceasefire that simply collapsed would not be worth having." So debates in parliament have no effect?? |
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Mar 6 2024, 03:41 PM
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#1812
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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Not foot-shooty, but interestingly nonetheless. A member of an iconic Britpop group could be joining the Commons - The Tories have an 18k majority here, and Labour came 3rd behind the Lib Dem’s in 2019, so no guarantee he’ll get the win. But if he wants to be the MP, there’s no other way. |
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Mar 6 2024, 04:05 PM
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#1813
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,011 User: 18,639
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But Blur are all posh Tories I thought?!
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Mar 6 2024, 05:02 PM
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#1814
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
 
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QUOTE(Anita Hanjaab @ Mar 6 2024, 04:05 PM) But Blur are all posh Tories I thought?! You've clearly never listened to Damon Albarn on politics. Dave Rowntree has stood for parliament before. |
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Mar 6 2024, 05:13 PM
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#1815
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,011 User: 18,639
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Ironic, as Oasis now has the big ol Tory in Noel
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Mar 6 2024, 05:23 PM
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#1816
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 Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,849 User: 51
 
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QUOTE(Anita Hanjaab @ Mar 6 2024, 04:05 PM) But Blur are all posh Tories I thought?! Good heavens NO! 😳 |
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Mar 6 2024, 08:45 PM
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#1817
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,405 User: 12,929
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Mar 6 2024, 03:41 PM) Not foot-shooty, but interestingly nonetheless. A member of an iconic Britpop group could be joining the Commons - The Tories have an 18k majority here, and Labour came 3rd behind the Lib Dem’s in 2019, so no guarantee he’ll get the win. But if he wants to be the MP, there’s no other way. That's my current seat - won't be on boundary changes but nice pick. Could see him getting that actually, it's the more Labour-leaning parts of the current seat that are being kept in Mid Sussex and I think it's red on some of the MRPs (though few seats aren't). |
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