The Post Office Horizon scandal - BuzzJack Music Forum

BuzzJack - Entertainment Discussion _ General Discussion _ News and Politics

Latest Site News

A chart double for Taylor Swift

Hozier gets a second week at number one

Hozier climbs to number one

The Post Office Horizon scandal

Display modes

Track this thread - Email this thread - Print this thread - Download this thread - Subscribe to this forum

Rooney View member profile	11th January 2024, 08:06 PM Post #1
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,604 User: 88	Can't believe there isn't already a topic on this. I first became aware of the story in April 2021 when some of the convictions were quashed and it was loosely picked up in the news. The recent ITV drama showing the struggle has created a wave of change which I don't think anybody was expecting! Seems the Post Office had created a culture of fear, whether that was the entire culture or the influence of Fujitsu who knows. Whilst the Post Office is rightly being scrutinised, I can't help but feel the actions of Fujitsu (who continue to win and have major Government contracts) are getting off lightly.


Iz 🌟 View member profile	11th January 2024, 09:31 PM Post #2
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929	It's been very interesting to follow as huge trust in computers is a hallmark of bad bureaucracy and public systems, they're only made by humans and can have human error like anything else, and a huge scandal showing this up is... well at least people are being made aware that it's a possibility, particularly as it involves a multinational that got awarded a contract. I've watched some of the drama and it's very good that the story got attention after this (good performances by the actors really showing the human cost of this), though it shouldn't have taken so long to do it. I do remember the story swirling around for years with the grand total of nothing done by the government to step in and well, better late than never but really...


Suedehead2 View member profile	11th January 2024, 09:43 PM Post #3
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272	There are so many scandalous elements to this story. I first became fully aware of it in 2019 although I had some vague awareness of it before then. For too long, it was totally ignored by the mainstream press. It was covered largely by an IT trade magazine (Computer Weekly) and Private Eye with the BBC giving it a mention very occasionally. The fact that it has taken a television drama to get the government to treat this as a matter of some urgency just adds to the sc sandal. Without it, the affair would have dragged on for many more years. Naturally, the Tories are trying to make political capital out of it, hoping we'll forget that they have done very little since they won a majority in 2015. Yes, Ed Davey initially refused to meet lead campaigner Alan Bates, as had his Labour predecessors. However, Davey did meet him in October 2010, five months after becoming a minister. Bates himself acknowledges that ministers refused to meet him because Fujitsu and the PO lied to them. Keir Starmer was indeed DPP while a lot of the prosecutions were launched. However, the DPP cannot do anything about private prosecutions which most of these were. A grand total of three prosecutions were launched by the CPS. However, assuming they were for the same sums as all the others (around a low five-figure sum), they wouldn't have got anywhere near the DPP's desk. The decisions will have been made by people many grades below him. In the meantime, Fujitsu have continued to win government contracts. They now have a tie-up with Infosys. The founder of and major shareholder in that company has a son-in-law who is quite influential (a bloke called Sunak). The former head of the PO was awarded a CBE by the Tories and was also given a place as a non-executive board member at the Cabinet Office. Those positions are basically a Tory invention to allow them to give more of their supporters (and donors) jobs on the government payroll.


Suedehead2 View member profile	11th January 2024, 09:53 PM Post #4
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272	QUOTE(Iz 🧊 @ Jan 11 2024, 09:31 PM) It's been very interesting to follow as huge trust in computers is a hallmark of bad bureaucracy and public systems, they're only made by humans and can have human error like anything else, and a huge scandal showing this up is... well at least people are being made aware that it's a possibility, particularly as it involves a multinational that got awarded a contract. I've watched some of the drama and it's very good that the story got attention after this (good performances by the actors really showing the human cost of this), though it shouldn't have taken so long to do it. I do remember the story swirling around for years with the grand total of nothing done by the government to step in and well, better late than never but really... From what I can make out, part of the problem stemmed from a decision to repurpose a system that had initially been intended to do one thing to do something else. In my IT days, a senior person suggested dpiong something similar at the company where I was working at the time ("We've got a system that does something vaguely similar, can't we make a few tweaks to get it to do something else as well?"). I thought it was a ridiculous idea, and explained why. It didn't happen. Too often in this country, members of staff are afraid to challenge senior management even when they can put up a good case.


Rooney View member profile	11th January 2024, 10:13 PM Post #5
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,604 User: 88	QUOTE(Iz 🧊 @ Jan 11 2024, 09:31 PM) It's been very interesting to follow as huge trust in computers is a hallmark of bad bureaucracy and public systems, they're only made by humans and can have human error like anything else, and a huge scandal showing this up is... well at least people are being made aware that it's a possibility, particularly as it involves a multinational that got awarded a contract. I've watched some of the drama and it's very good that the story got attention after this (good performances by the actors really showing the human cost of this), though it shouldn't have taken so long to do it. I do remember the story swirling around for years with the grand total of nothing done by the government to step in and well, better late than never but really... The judicial part is the one I am most uneasy about, I feel just exhonorating everyone is the wrong call and sets a precedent for the future.. but I think the spped and bueraucy of these processes need to be looked at. Also don't agree with some of the political point scoring- I think if anything all the parties can be held accountable and this is about the people who've had their lives ruined.


Iz 🌟 View member profile	11th January 2024, 10:26 PM Post #6
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,422 User: 12,929	The judicial system overall is underfunded just like everything else, and indeed, blanket exonerations, while good for those affected is very... sticking-plaster and potentially abusable later. As for the political point scoring, I don't think much of it is sticking as it's quite easy to absolve responsibility throughout the story, unfortunately.


Suedehead2 View member profile	11th January 2024, 10:40 PM Post #7
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272	QUOTE(Rooney @ Jan 11 2024, 10:13 PM) The judicial part is the one I am most uneasy about, I feel just exhonorating everyone is the wrong call and sets a precedent for the future.. but I think the spped and bueraucy of these processes need to be looked at. Also don't agree with some of the political point scoring- I think if anything all the parties can be held accountable and this is about the people who've had their lives ruined. There are a number of senior people in the legal profession who are understandably uneasy about the mass quashing of convictions. We have seen large-scale quashing of convictions ion the past when the law has been changed. For example, all convictions for homosexual acts by people serving in the armed forces have been quashed. This, however, is different. The proposal is that a law should be passed overriding the verdict of juries. One reason for that is that its would take many years for each case to go through the appeals process.


Suedehead2 View member profile	28th January 2024, 01:15 PM Post #8
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 April 2007 Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272	The government has sacked the chair of the Post Office. As he has only been in the job for just over a year, this seems somewhat harsh. Yet again, the Tories are finding someone else to blame and hoping that the electorate falls for it.