oops forgot it was Sunday
As it’s so late, going to try something different this week. SPOILERS ALLOWED ONCE EPISODE HAS AIRED FOR THE FIRST TIME
That means as soon as the episode is live (aka 2am in the UK) spoilers will be allowed.
If anyone has objections, please let me know because I really don’t know the best approach to generate discussion without blocks of black!
Hopefully few people will be entering a discussion thread on it without having watched it, particularly given there are individual episodes. And with that warning in the first post, I doubt anyone will read beyond it if they are concerned. So I'll only put in what I think are the biggest spoilers of the episode in black.
plus Twitter et al are all over it so I think wider social media is doing a better job of giving out spoilers than we are.
THAT SAID, I really enjoyed that episode.
It was basically an hour of Helm's Deep-like prepreparation and characters effectively saying goodbye to life by doing things, like Brienne getting knighted, that whole cluster of characters having a drinking sesh, Podrick doing Pippin-like singing, the Night's Watch having a reunion, ARYA AND GENDRY (in what was my favourite scene of the episode because it's Arya getting to do something normal, that she wants to do) getting it on.
Both very LOTR-like and reflective of the early seasons the way it tied some things up like Bran and Jaime's confrontation. Really satisfying for going into the next episode which I'm sure will be a bloodbath of some kind.
also, hands up who thinks the crypts are safe?
maybe I'm just putting them in the same headspace as the Helm's Deep caves that it didn't concern me but they were mentioned so many times some people are thinking that perhaps... THE CRYPTS ARE NOT SAFE
No where is safe!!!
Action wise nothing happened, but that's ok! Especially as they were tying up some loose ends and then giving them a breather before all hell breaks loose in the battle next week. Makes me more nervous for next week though.
Arghhh.
I genuinely was a bit disappointed with this episode in comparison to last week. I know it is the calm before the storm but other than the ending and the beginning with Jaime it very much felt like lets see how much drinking and sex we can get in to try and bring it back to the earlier seasons.
That said, Sansa and Daenerys although a bit short of a scene, was probably the highlight. I would be surprised if the crypts are infact safe - they've made too much reference to them in this episode at least two or three times and as to who will be in there. I know Tyrion has been asked to remain in the crypts by Daenerys but in the trailer shots we haven't seen him???? Then again I thought the fireplace scene was Dragonstone but it was actually Winterfell so I was wrong on that I can't make out in the trailer for next weeks episode as it is so dark whether the dragon is Viserion or one of the other two?????
as mentioned in first post, spoilers below~~
That definitely felt like a mix of redemption/reflection, the last chance for proper character pieces before we go into the battle next week and then into the battle for the iron throne. It was kind of like a chance to say goodbye to the characters
I found Arya sleeping with Gendry though somehow more disturbing than all the incest but I think that's because we've seen her from a young age (despite her being old before her time!)
Jaime has morphed into such a favourite, what a great character development - all tied up full circle with that confrontation with Bran. Ser Brienne too <3
The daggers at Jon from Daenerys though, intrigued as to how that will play out. There's similarities there with Yara/Theon, although of course more Jon is not being interested in the throne. Sansa's talk with Daenerys maybe adds to the theory that Jon will rule the north and Daenerys the rest??
also, yes - the amount of times a character mentioned the crypts being safe, means they certainly will not be!
It’s just habit!
I wonder that too about the north and Jon, especially as he’s hammered that as his motivation since the start of his time with Daenerys. I do feel the reveal this week was a bit meh though.
the crypts are safe
you will be safest in the crypts
i can think of no safer place than the crypts
we need you to stay in the crypts and stay alive
the safest place to be is in the crypts
the crypts are safe
crpyts is the safe place
the crypts are full of hundreds of dead people and the Night King's whole gimmick is that he can bring dead bodies back to 'life' but no the crypts are safe
no one will die in the crypts
Hella theorizing here so spoilered but omg I have so much to talk about
Sure decomposing bodies make weaker/non-existent wites BUT the crypts have always been talked about as freezing cold, much much colder than the rest of Winterfell even still in Summer so it wouldn't surprise me if everyone thats been buried in the crypts over the hundreds of years since Winterfell was built that a good portion of the bodies are still in tact being somewhat preserved. Also theres all the ancient Stark magic (ie the magic that protected the wall from white walkers being able to climb/break it, until Bran stumbled through and accidentally broke the magic wall's aura - OR dragonfire is magic breaking too thus when NK had Viserion melt it down the magic wore off, either way shit loads of magic is involved in everything North rn). Just remembered too that we've seen pure skeletal zombies before too so for sure the ancient Starks can be brought back. Thankfully Cat, Robb, and Ned aren't buried at Winterfell and just have tombs there. I mean Cat and Robb were thrown into the river after the Red Wedding and Joffrey probably did similar to Ned. Rickon is there though...
Grey Worm, Brienne, Jorah, Tormund, Theon, Beric, Edd, and Gendry are all gonna be dead by this time next week. I've never seen so much closure and foreshadowing piled into 58 minutes. Grey Worm and Missandei making future plans, Brienne being knighted by Jaime, Jorah giving Dany his blessing for choosing Tyrion as Hand plus his cousin wishing him luck, Tormund telling the fire crew about his Giantsbane name effectively means he's gonna be killed by a zombie giant, Theon reuniting with Sansa and finally choosing the Starks over the Greyjoys, Beric had one last drink with The Hound, Edd met with Sam and Jon atop the Winterfell wall saying how the last one alive will burn the others bodies, Gendry revealed his genes to Arya and put a baby in her continuing the Baratheon bloodline. Brienne will die in Jaime's arms then Tormund will see this and go ape shit, charging into the WW army and never coming back out alive. This will be when Bronn rocks up and saves Jaime just in time (yet again)
Jorah being given Heartsbane will help him in the upcoming war but I can easily see him surviving most of the battle and dying as they retreat, him being stabbed through the heart by a WW/NK as he reaches eyesight of Dany. Her heartbreak from Jorah dying plus the Jon news will make her do something drastic.
Since Tyrion knows Bran's whole story (also fk you GoT for skipping out on their conversation completing) he now knows they survive this battle and basically knows everything once again, hopefully having learned his lesson from mistrusting Cersei he is now peak-Tyrion again. Dead arise in the crypts, Tyrion leaves to warn the armies above but not before witnessing absolute slaughter at the hands of the Starks and perhaps he is even the one to lock the door behind him preventing the WW's from flanking Winterfell but also condemning any surviving women & children to their death. It's a very messed up theory but plausible tbh and if it did happen Tyrion would probably go mad. At least then it gives Bronn a legitimate reason to kill him then have Jaime take out Bronn.
I'm not sure who else is down in the crypts other than Gilly, Baby Sam, fake-Shireen, Sansa, and Tyrion and presumably Missandei and Varys. Sam will definitley survive this messed up story but I seriously believe he will lose everything in the process - Gilly will be murdered, Baby Sam will be taken by the NK, his father and brother are already dead. I'd suggest him as a maester to whoever takes the throne but if it's anyone other than Jon I'm not too sure. Maybe if Jon becomes King in the North with Dany as Queen in the South Sam could chill at a rebuilt Winterfell. Fire-Shireen might not even be mentioned again but her appearance will definitely have affected Davos and when Melisandre returns he will be pissed af. No one likes her but hopefully her time in Volantis will see her returning with a flock of more Red Priestesses hopefully with enough magic to help take down the NK (which Bran will figure out how exactly to do that soon I hope but idk how)
Arya, Jaime, Sam, The Hound, Melisandre, Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Bran, and Podrick I think will definitely survive the next episode although this Winterfell battle is set to last two episodes so perhaps the episode after might spell the end for some.
Side note: does anyone know wtf is going on in the Vale right now? Robin is the Lord there but is he fighting with Cersei? With the North? Is he just sitting casually at the Eyrie thinking it truly is "unassailable"? Because when zombie dragons start flying South no way will that stone kebab last
It was such a good episode and a nice way to build up to the battle. So happy to see Brienne alive and her getting knighted. She needs to stay alive!!! It was also nice to see Theon reunited with Sansa and fighting for the Starks.
I was surpised how Arya was pretty much like "I'm not going to die a virgin". The constant talk of everyone dying throughout the episode has made me sad though, as there's likely going to be many, many deaths of characters I love.
It was interesting to see Daenerys' reaction to both Sansa and Jon. I'm more so on Sansa/Jon's side. Perhaps if Daenerys and Jon get married, he can rule the north whilst she rules the rest of the kingdom.
The crypts are certainly not safe and I have the theory that a bunch of the old dead Starks will be revived as white walkers and Jon may have to fight Lyanna, his mother.
The one comforting thing I've gathered from this episode is that not everyone will die in the fight with the Night King and a few key characters should survive as there's still Cersi and her army to deal with. I feel like a few characters are going to die from saving others (The Hound dies saving Arya/Brienne or Jamie die trying to save each other/Davos dies trying to save the girl in the crypt who reminds him of Shireen etc).
omg theres more black text than ever
I mean, if you've watched the episode, it's entirely SAFE to read all of that, it just depends if you want to get caught up in theorising over things like death flags or not. Some people might want to go into the next episode with no expectations of which characters will die/won't die.
Actually forgot all about Yohn Royce I love how some of these huge powerful houses from the early series have just been whittled down to the point theres next to noone even left alive in the country. I'd love like a chart just of how many known members of each big family there were in the beginning compared to now. Baratheon, Martell, Tully, Tyrell, Arryn, Bolton, Frey, all are basically gone now. I think Targaryen is the only house that has the same amount of members now as it did S1E1... Viserys, Dany, Aemon -> Dany, Jon, plus their unborn child which I'm like 99% sure is there they just don't know yet
Edit: well yes Jon was technically always a Targaryen but no one even suspected anything until very recently so it doesn't count
I think the Night King will survive the battle...somehow. I'm honestly not sure of an outcome, but there's no way that those in Kings Landing won't completely miss the White walkers (wouldn't it just be the twist of all twists that they've somehow already got the Kings Landing army and they come face to face with a zombiefied Cersei and Euron *.* Won't happen as it'd be a bit too much to set all four remaining episodes in one location). I think Tyrion, Jaime, Sansa, Bran, Arya, Daenerys and Jon will surely survive this battle at least, though it's possible Arya could be unexpectedly killed. Given how Dany looked at Jon today after that news, I'm doubting the two of them making it to the end of the series alive, I mean have we REALLY seen how far Dany will go to get the throne even if she's not the rightful heir?...
Anyway, great episode. They're doing the character moments a lot better than last season and I'm glad to see it, given how next week will likely be one of the biggest battles ever seen on TV, it completely makes sense to have a calm before the storm. Sad as the likes of Grey Worm, Missandre, Jorah, Brienne, Tormund, The Hound all had great moments, but all the signs are pointing to a death for them (maybe not for the Hound, he hasn't faced his brother yet after all). Jaime had a wonderful episode, his character growth has really been stellar as one you hate to one you really root for, again makes me wonder if it could be foreshadowing his death, but he feels a bit important to die right now...
This should be the penultimate episode with circeii sorted first. Im going to be very unhappy next week as i love all the main characters and most of the supporting.
Bloodbath....
Whilst there was no action, I don't think this episode needed it. In fact, it was an incredible episode for character building and seeing a lot of important moments that NEEDED to happen...like Arya & Gendry, the pre-battle drinks around the fire, Brienne finally getting knighted, Jon revealing the news to Dany. It felt like almost every character except maybe Sansa, Jon and Dany had some sort of "farewell moment" in the episode ready for a big heroic death.
Like others have said...The Crypt is definitely not safe! It's been mentioned far too many times
Just dawned on me that Jorah just sentenced Tyrion to death.
Dany is ready to throw Tyrion out of her small council but her most trusted adviser vouches for him making her force Tyrion to remain safe in the crypts, meanwhile Tyrion speaks to Bran and learns how the three eyed raven can see the past & future and knows exactly how this pans out... Tyrion now knows not to enter the crypt probably from an ominous farewell message from Bran but can’t say anything to anyone because he probably couldn’t explain it and because there’s magic involving letting history people know about the future. He refuses to go down below but no one knows why - he tries to convince Sansa that the crypts aren’t safe but she doesn’t believe him because he’s no longer the cleverest man she knows so he looks like a fool to her now. Tyrion can’t save Sansa and has to let her and all the innocents die, becoming insane from the guilt and turns into the Mad Brother to the Mad Queen Cersei. Varys dies in the crypt, Tyrion is mad, Jorah sacrifices himself for his Khaleesi - Dany loses faith in her claim to the throne and her army’s strength is severely weakened resulting in her and her last remaining dragon (Drogon as the only survivor of the series) fly to kings landing where she wants to burn the city to the ground including Cersei. Only by the time she gets there the city is engulfed in snow and undead Cersei Lannister marches North
Low key hope I’m wrong about everything I’ve said tbh If anything far fetched that I’ve posted comes true I should get a three eyed raven badge or something
I enjoyed that episode. Lots of good character moments but I also agree with many of the points too. I also kept thinking to myself throughout the episode "those bloody crypts are definitely not going to be safe!".
The only characters I think are safe are Tyrion, Jon and Dany and one of Davos/Tormund. They made lots of reference to the hand of the King/Queen tonight which makes mr think they'll all survive. Total goners at this point are Beric, Brienne, Theon and Greyworm. I'm certain those 4 will die. Edd, Gendry and Lyanna strong possibilities too. The probably Gilly, Missandrie in the crypts get bumped off too. Not sure about Jorah - I was certain he was off until he got given the sword, now I'm not sure. Not sure I'm ready for such a bloodbath for the supporting characters.
There's a great theory about Jorah since sunday's episode.
Many believe that the 'Prince that was promised' and Azor Ahai are not the same person (although Melisandre seems to think so) and it is said that the Prince that was promised will pull the sword from the fire and give it to someone else who becomes Azor Ahai.
In Westerosi legend the sword know as Lightbringer is only activated after the wielder plunged it through the heart of his beloved.
Remember that Sam took Heartsbane from above his father's fireplace and just gave it to Jorah. Jorah has always loved Dany but what ifs she were to turn on Jon Snow and attempt to kill him. She made it quite clear that she wasn't about to give up her claim to Sansa and didn't look too pleased with his claim before they were interrupted.
Not saying I'm convinced but I like the idea.
It was a brilliant episode with the clear purpose of setting up all sorts of emotional investments in the characters.... before their ultimate ends and a cataclysmic bloodbath next episode.
Melisandre will definitely still have a key role to come!! The actress did some pre-show promo so will no doubt be back.
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