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 20th May 2024, 03:57 PM
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#321
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,575 User: 18,639 
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QUOTE(Calum @ 19th May 2024, 05:38 PM)  But that's a conclusion you have decided to jump to as opposed to what has actually been said in the show itself? Like I said, I've not been a massive supporter or fan of the Timeless Child storyline, but I feel like Chibnall was deliberately very vague and left some parts open-ended so that he didn't shoehorn the show into one box moving forward. Nowhere did he say that the Doctor is immortal or invincible, simply that the Time Lords' ability to regenerate came from the Doctor. We don't know how many times the Doctor can regenerate (it could still be capped but beyond the limit Tecteun herself set for Time Lords!). Curiously though, why do we want the Doctor to die completely? Regeneration has been at the core of the show since Hartnell regenerated into Troughton, so it's not as if it's meddled with that concept at all. The Doctor will still regenerate, hence the future of the show is secure. If anything this gave future writers a get out of jail card for having to explain what # regeneration the Doctor is on, or how many of x amount have been used up. It's not a perfect storyline by any means, but it certainly has added intrigue and mystery to the character of the Doctor again, and provided some conveniences. The Doctor is basically an eternal being now, much like the Toymaker. He cannot be killed. Of course, we don't WANT him to die ... but we need the suspense. Look at how well is it Day of the Dictor??? worked on Trenzalore, plus how the whole Doctor dying storyline played out. And getting rid of the Timeless Chils, by passing it off to the Master, gives us an eternal villian, and explains why he ALWAYS come back, even when Missy was shot and died with no regen, plus explains why he slways comes back EVIL, even after Missy. It also opens up more storylines. Imagine what stortlines they can do with Jo Martin now wirhout it!! Also rhe regeneration number was dixed in Day od the Doctor. They could have removed the cap, or given him 100s. No way to know, but still makes him killable, and the issue of number of regens was already sorted. |
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20th May 2024, 04:00 PM
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#322
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,575 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(DoBelieveTheHype @ 20th May 2024, 04:52 PM) So BARB's updated Space Babies - 4.08m The Devil's Chord - 3.90m These are really poor ratings as demonstrated by coming in 10th and 12th place on the weekly top watched shows list. With a drop of 3.41m viewers from The Church on Ruby Road those at the helm of the show are going to be somewhat worried about it's future now surely - especially as ratings in recent years have generally declined over the course of a season. It simply looks like the appetite for New Who revamped for the millionth time is no longer there following successive show-runners running it into the ground. Even RTD - the hero of Whovians everywhere - isn't a big pulling factor. Are those worse Barb ratings than any of 13? |
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20th May 2024, 04:15 PM
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#323
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 30 March 2024
Posts: 358 User: 175,892
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QUOTE(JosephBoone @ 20th May 2024, 04:55 PM) The ratings are fine and will be even better come the +28 figures, but of course it won't stop people framing the narrative to match their opinion... The +28 figures aren't publicly released and haven't been for years. They're irrelevant. No one is framing the narrative to match their opinion, they're objectively poor ratings. With the exception of The Legend of the Sea Devils (3.47m) they are worse than every Chibnall episode. QUOTE(Doomsday Dong @ 20th May 2024, 05:00 PM) Are those worse Barb ratings than any of 13? The special The Legend of the Sea Devils attracted a mere 3.47m viewers. A cursory glance at Wikipedia shows every regular series episode of the Whittaker run had higher consolidated figures than The Space Babies or The Devil's Chord. The last regular series episode (non-special) to rate as low as 3.9m was Battlefield Episode 2 in 1989. The last episode to rate lower than that was Battefield Episode 1 at 3.1m in 1989. Claiming these ratings are fine is a nonsense. |
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20th May 2024, 04:17 PM
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#324
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 you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 123,121 User: 13,530 
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The +28 figures are published in Doctor Who Magazine so we do indeed see them and they're bound to provide another bump.
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20th May 2024, 04:19 PM
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#325
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,575 User: 18,639
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Any idea how it's doing in the us on Disney? As if it's doing huge numbers there, thanks to the family friendly cheese angle, it might be performing better for bbc than ever before, even whilst flopping in the home country? Neighbours flopped in Australia but was on air for 50 years due to UK and Ireland viewers.
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20th May 2024, 04:23 PM
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#326
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 30 March 2024
Posts: 358 User: 175,892
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QUOTE(JosephBoone @ 20th May 2024, 05:17 PM) The +28 figures are published in Doctor Who Magazine so we do indeed see them and they're bound to provide another bump. I didn't know that as I don't read the magazine. Surprised anybody does these days to be honest. BARB stopped generally releasing them years ago. Maybe they will provide a bump but it'll still be a lot lower than The Church on Ruby Road. In my opinion if someone's waiting until after 7 days to watch the show they aren't that bothered. I see you pointedly ignored the stat about The Devil's Chord being the lowest rated non-special of the entire New Series. Maybe that doesn't sit with your 'framing of the narrative' eh? These are poor ratings, there's no two ways about it. |
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20th May 2024, 04:26 PM
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#327
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,664 User: 177
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Neighbours is 39 years old x
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20th May 2024, 04:43 PM
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#328
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 123,121 User: 13,530
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QUOTE(DoBelieveTheHype @ 20th May 2024, 05:23 PM) I didn't know that as I don't read the magazine. Surprised anybody does these days to be honest. BARB stopped generally releasing them years ago. Maybe they will provide a bump but it'll still be a lot lower than The Church on Ruby Road. In my opinion if someone's waiting until after 7 days to watch the show they aren't that bothered. I see you pointedly ignored the stat about The Devil's Chord being the lowest rated non-special of the entire New Series. Maybe that doesn't sit with your 'framing of the narrative' eh? These are poor ratings, there's no two ways about it. I don't see why you're spending this much time arguing about a show you're not bothering to watch, and don't get why others care about either? It's baffling! It's 2024, people watch shows whenever they fancy, waiting 7 days isn't an indicator that they don't care, it's an indicator that they might not have had time, or have been waiting to watch with a friend/family member, or any other reason. And yes, it's the lowest rated non-special of the new series, but that's going to become a common theme with the way TV ratings are going now. The specials last year rated SO well - abnormally well! The real test will be how these ratings hold up, and Boom's overnights weren't down that much at all, so I expect they'll hold up quite well. The show's not in danger no matter how much you want it to be. |
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20th May 2024, 05:08 PM
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#329
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 30 March 2024
Posts: 358 User: 175,892
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QUOTE(JosephBoone @ 20th May 2024, 05:43 PM) I don't see why you're spending this much time arguing about a show you're not bothering to watch, and don't get why others care about either? It's baffling! It's 2024, people watch shows whenever they fancy, waiting 7 days isn't an indicator that they don't care, it's an indicator that they might not have had time, or have been waiting to watch with a friend/family member, or any other reason. And yes, it's the lowest rated non-special of the new series, but that's going to become a common theme with the way TV ratings are going now. The specials last year rated SO well - abnormally well! The real test will be how these ratings hold up, and Boom's overnights weren't down that much at all, so I expect they'll hold up quite well. The show's not in danger no matter how much you want it to be. I'm not arguing about a show I'm not bothering to watch. I watch Doctor Who every day, several episodes in fact and I do intend to watch these new episodes when I catch up on my marathon - watching the new show would take me out of my watch of the old one it's so different now - so I'm holding them over. I certainly don't want to the show to be in danger, I'd like it to continue to run and run and have plenty to watch when I do catch up on my marathon - and yes the Disney deal might have saved it from any immediate cancellation worries that might be there if it was wholly BBC funded and doing these numbers. That's a good thing. I'd still prefer to see it retain it's popularity in it's home country; something these ratings show it's clearly not going to manage with this latest revamp. Unless you're admitting the show is no longer Doctor Who (another debate) you can't accuse me of arguing about a show I don't watch. I do care about Doctor Who and want to see it doing well but the facts are it isn't on any objective measure. The fact I've stopped watching it doesn't mean I don't care about it but I'm not so blind to see it's struggling as some others - not just on this forum - are. Saying the ratings are fine is just denialism. People have turned away in their millions and something needs to be done - a proper reset - doubling down on the Timeless Child adoption arc is not the sort of reset we needed. I watched The Church on Ruby Road at Christmas and it was a good episode, however the first few minutes of Space Babies has turned me off watching these newer episodes any time soon. You can only blame so much of the decline on 'the way TV ratings are going now' when an episode of show is failing to make the Top 10 most watched programmes for the week and doing such low numbers for the show. Chibnall drove the show into the ground and RTD looks unable to lift it back up despite the decent (by admittedly lower current TV ratings standards) ratings for the specials. You and many others are trying to frame record low ratings as a good thing, it's absurd. This post has been edited by DoBelieveTheHype: 20th May 2024, 05:08 PM |
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20th May 2024, 05:38 PM
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#330
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,575 User: 18,639
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We need a showrunner unafraid of retconning Chibnall. Chibnall was unafraid of stamping all over Who lore in the first place, so someone like that again, please, but who cares about the lore and who is, um, actually GOOD. RTD is not the right person for the job. He's not up to the task, and his writing seems to have a taken a turn for the abysmal anyway.
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20th May 2024, 06:14 PM
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#331
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 nabad
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 13 February 2013 Posts: 28,551 User: 18,316
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QUOTE(DoBelieveTheHype @ 20th May 2024, 05:23 PM) In my opinion if someone's waiting until after 7 days to watch the show they aren't that bothered There are plenty shows I've waited weeks, months, even a year to watch on Netflix that I'm still very interested in and will get around to, so that seems a very moot point to try and make. Just seems further proof you and plenty others would rather find a reason to bitch and moan about ratings and have your personal opinion of the direction the show has gone in cloud what's actually happening in the real world. RTD doesn't care, the BBC likely don't care, the television industry as a whole probably don't care given the streaming world we now live in. The obnoxiously loud voices of a few Doctor Who fans claiming the doomsday clock is ticking because <4m people watched the show live on a Saturday night really aren't going to make many waves. In context: Doctor Who was still the 2nd and 3rd most watched programme of the day, the 4th and 5th most watched BBC programme of the week, and the 10th and 12th most watched programme of the week across all channels and streaming (re. Space Babies and The Devil's Chord, respectively). |
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20th May 2024, 06:16 PM
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#332
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 123,121 User: 13,530
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QUOTE(Doomsday Dong @ 20th May 2024, 06:38 PM) We need a showrunner unafraid of retconning Chibnall. Chibnall was unafraid of stamping all over Who lore in the first place, so someone like that again, please, but who cares about the lore and who is, um, actually GOOD. RTD is not the right person for the job. He's not up to the task, and his writing seems to have a taken a turn for the abysmal anyway. Guarantee that "retconning Chibnall" wouldn't change the ratings. |
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20th May 2024, 06:25 PM
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#333
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 26 February 2007
Posts: 14,520 User: 3,002
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Giving ratings across all tv shows are basically down, i don't think the ratings for either ep are that bad - they're both in the top 15 rated shows of the whole week. Also we don't have the full figure anyway as you can watch on Disney as well (which I'm guessing aren't factored in here?).
What did people who are calling the ratings a disaster expecting? The highest ranked show of the week is a one off yearly event which actually only got under 8m - the days of shows hitting huge ratings are kinda over the way tv is now. This post has been edited by ElectroBoy: 20th May 2024, 06:26 PM |
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20th May 2024, 06:54 PM
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#334
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 The owls are not what they seem
Pronouns: He/him
Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,274 User: 9,232
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Yes, indeed, I think with this release model, a dip in ratings was bound to happen. Streaming figures would be what they're interested in and for a revival that's coming up to 20 years old now, that's still a fair amount of interest.
This whole argument's a bit moot anyway - like it or not, the show's not going anywhere, Disney is clearly investing quite a bit into this and bringing it to an international audience and it looks better than it ever does. I'm still skeptical if it's completely for me but will continue to watch with an open mind to see where it's going and if it can recapture just a little bit of the magic of the original era. I enjoy reading a wide variety of views but I will give fair warning that the same repetitive, negative moaning with no constructive criticism week after week will be removed going forward and warned if not adhered to. There's so many shows out there, don't waste it on one that clearly isn't doing it for you anymore. |
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20th May 2024, 07:43 PM
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#335
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 ‘psychedelic pop-infused’? Pull the other one!
Joined: 2 March 2018
Posts: 28,953 User: 67,771 
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QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ 20th May 2024, 07:25 PM) Giving ratings across all tv shows are basically down, i don't think the ratings for either ep are that bad - they're both in the top 15 rated shows of the whole week. Also we don't have the full figure anyway as you can watch on Disney as well (which I'm guessing aren't factored in here?). What did people who are calling the ratings a disaster expecting? The highest ranked show of the week is a one off yearly event which actually only got under 8m - the days of shows hitting huge ratings are kinda over the way tv is now. It's available on Disney+ internationally, but not in the UK at all. |
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20th May 2024, 10:33 PM
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#336
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 26 February 2007
Posts: 14,520 User: 3,002
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QUOTE(WhoOdyssey @ 20th May 2024, 08:43 PM) It's available on Disney+ internationally, but not in the UK at all. Ah fair enough  Thanks for clarifying |
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21st May 2024, 02:54 PM
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#337
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 30 March 2024
Posts: 358 User: 175,892
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Just found this snippet in Radio Times - Moffat's Christmas episode is going to his last and he's cast an eye over the Series 15 finale 'for reasons that will become apparent'. I wonder what makes him so confident he'll not be writing any more episodes unless he has information we don't about Series 16 onwards?
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor...fat-newsupdate/ |
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21st May 2024, 02:59 PM
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#338
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nabad
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 13 February 2013 Posts: 28,551 User: 18,316
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Because he can dictate himself whether he chooses to write any more episodes, and in his eyes he won’t?
 I personally believe it’s because he’ll be showrunner/a main writer for one of the upcoming spin-offs. Seems the only reasonable explanation for him needing to know what happens in the series 15 finale. |
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21st May 2024, 03:22 PM
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#339
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Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 7,027 User: 9,872
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QUOTE(Calum @ 21st May 2024, 03:59 PM) I personally believe it’s because he’ll be showrunner/a main writer for one of the upcoming spin-offs. Seems the only reasonable explanation for him needing to know what happens in the series 15 finale. Or it could be that it involves his intellectual property, such as the Weeping Angels or River Song (more as continuity or courtesy than legal obligation) or there's simply a connection with Boom and that they wanted consistency before submitting the scripts |
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21st May 2024, 04:06 PM
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#340
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,575 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(DoBelieveTheHype @ 21st May 2024, 03:54 PM) Just found this snippet in Radio Times - Moffat's Christmas episode is going to his last and he's cast an eye over the Series 15 finale 'for reasons that will become apparent'. I wonder what makes him so confident he'll not be writing any more episodes unless he has information we don't about Series 16 onwards? https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor...fat-newsupdate/ I'm HOPING those reasons are two words: Eiver and Sonf!!! |
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