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| Game of Thrones • The Iron Throne, S08E06 | SPOILERS |
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 19th May 2019, 09:31 AM
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#21
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376 
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Yes it's all spot-on that summary. Everything is in the scripts of previous seasons, and no it's not just bad "foreshadowing" it's the whole POINT of the show set up staring you in the face throughout, that's why it's one of the greatest TV shows of all-time, it's so beautifully constructed, understands human nature, power, religion, and much more. The dragons, the magic, are the trappings in the same way as Shakespeare used history and fantasy for exploring human nature and commenting. Great art is almost always about the nature of human beings and their failings or achievements and struggles.
Dany fans rewatch season 7, especially the penultimate episode for path-laying-out. She's always been flawed - I love both Cersei and Dany as strong characters played by brilliant actresses, but one is pure evil and not sympathetic, one becomes the thing she set out to destroy and is a tragic figure. |
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19th May 2019, 10:12 AM
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#22
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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Let’a not gloss over this bad writing though:
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19th May 2019, 11:36 AM
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#23
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929             |
Bad writing or no, I will try and lay a final judgement of this season once this episode has aired. I reckon the ending is indeed going to be obvious, but the details, and the conclusion of character arcs I think will be what make the last season overall worthwhile or not.
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19th May 2019, 04:04 PM
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#24
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,599 User: 88
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ May 19 2019, 12:36 PM)  Bad writing or no, I will try and lay a final judgement of this season once this episode has aired. I reckon the ending is indeed going to be obvious, but the details, and the conclusion of character arcs I think will be what make the last season overall worthwhile or not. There was a leaked spoiler on reddit about the finale from someone whose get everything right so far apparently. I've not read it, but judging from the reactions I've read, if people thought the content of episode 5 was bad, the roof will come off with how the show ends 
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19th May 2019, 04:13 PM
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#25
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Klaus @ May 19 2019, 11:12 AM) Let’a not gloss over this bad writing though: errr that's not evidence of bad writing, that's evidence of supreme arrogance on the part of Dany - in a hurry to get it all over with before everyone turns on her and supports Jon Snow for the throne when the word gets out. It shows she's arrogantly assuming the fleet won't be able to stop her and her forces, and her dragons, arrogantly ignoring sound advice about caution, getting troops rested, planning ahead, arrogantly not checking the area before invading, lying about not levelling King's Landing and using force not persuasion to gain power, murdering her advisor, ignoring her Hand, getting her best friend killed, getting her dragon killed, seeing Jon as a betrayer, having lost shitloads of her troops and her loyal protector (who she cast out twice and threatened to kill). Supreme arrogance and delusions of destiny, as she consistently has shown throughout the series. That's good writing, not bad. It's a Greek Tragedy with the potential hero falling thanks to their own flaws and for no other reason. They could easily have mentioned the fleet as being "location unknown" and her ignoring it, but it's not a huge gaping hole and could easily be plugged. I'm more amazed nobody comments on her stunning powers of defeating gravity as she sits on a dragon dodging this way and that, up and down, like a bloody rollercoaster only way way faster - and never falls off except at the battle at Winterfell. I'm sure could have forged a seatbelt 
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19th May 2019, 04:17 PM
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#26
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 October 2013
Posts: 31,028 User: 19,931
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I feel a lot of fans are taking the bad writing observations a bit too personally because of how invested we are and have been with the show for so many years.. It's okay to acknowledge them or at least respect others feel like that and continue happily enjoying the show!
I suggest watching the video I posted on the last page for a good counter argument anyway. QUOTE(365 @ May 16 2019, 02:53 PM) I predict: - Dany is evil tyrant now. Executing people left right and centre - Jon and/or Arya will kill Dany. (May die in process?) Not sure how they'll deal with Drogon - Sansa will end up Queen of the independent north - Someone boring will be given king...Bran...Or Sam? The End While I feel like the above or something very similar will be the outcome, I would love the ending to be something to do with the Wights/Night King. Their threat no longer being there feels odd given it's been a looming threat of death since episode 1 |
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19th May 2019, 04:19 PM
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#27
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Rooney @ May 19 2019, 05:04 PM) There was a leaked spoiler on reddit about the finale from someone whose get everything right so far apparently. I've not read it, but judging from the reactions I've read, if people thought the content of episode 5 was bad, the roof will come off with how the show ends The people decide letting rulers govern them is a very bad idea indeed and set up a democratic representative parliament? That would be SO fab, none of them get an Iron Throne
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19th May 2019, 04:21 PM
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#28
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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omg Euron Greyjoy hosted Eurovision in 2014 💀
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20th May 2019, 04:23 AM
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#29
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 4 December 2013
Posts: 8,400 User: 20,182
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Worst episode of the series. I have so many objections to the ending specifically as to how.
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20th May 2019, 05:17 AM
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#30
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 January 2009
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I liked the part where Cersei rose and executed them all x
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20th May 2019, 07:07 AM
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#31
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I Drink Wine
Joined: 12 April 2015
Posts: 10,485 User: 21,753
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20th May 2019, 07:09 AM
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#32
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I Drink Wine
Joined: 12 April 2015
Posts: 10,485 User: 21,753
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At least Sansa ended up Queen In The North I guess
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20th May 2019, 07:41 AM
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#33
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471
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QUOTE(blacksquare @ May 17 2019, 12:06 PM) I'm 99% convinced Jon is killing Dany — it's too predictable so they won't pass that up. 
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20th May 2019, 08:05 AM
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#34
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 October 2013
Posts: 31,028 User: 19,931
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QUOTE(365 @ May 16 2019, 02:53 PM) I predict: - Dany is evil tyrant now. Executing people left right and centre - Jon and/or Arya will kill Dany. (May die in process?) Not sure how they'll deal with Drogon - Sansa will end up Queen of the independent north - Someone boring will be given king...Bran...Or Sam? The End I.... |
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20th May 2019, 09:07 AM
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#35
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• aesthetic party •
Joined: 11 December 2006
Posts: 6,348 User: 2,169
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QUOTE(365 @ May 20 2019, 09:05 AM) I.... think we’ve found the real three eyed raven. |
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20th May 2019, 09:45 AM
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#36
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,254 User: 22,665
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not bad, not amazing but not Lost-bad ending
I think they could have given Cersei a better finale, was thinking Tyrion would find her still alive in the catacombs and after some tense dialog he would end up killing her like the prophecy said bit disappointed about how Jon ends, at the end of the day he's the right heir to the throne, sure he killed Dany but thats hardly anything on GoT I guess it's not a bad ending, Sansa queen of the north, Bran king of the 6 kingdoms and Jon king beyond the north. |
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20th May 2019, 09:51 AM
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#37
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Infamy Infamy they all got it in for me
Joined: 5 March 2006
Posts: 129,134 User: 2
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Worst episode of the series, I knew Jon was going to kill Dany in the end with no throne to sit on
Bran king of the 6 Kingdoms felt more of a damp squib. There is nothing else I can comment on that episode, the last season felt so underwhelming, it just felt so rushed.
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20th May 2019, 10:14 AM
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#38
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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f***ing bran, let me go back to being annoyed that his storyline was pointless
I think (?) I did otherwise like the ending although I’m not sure they can be so confident that everything is fine and settled now. I guess it is more about the different houses (for what little there are left) working together for once but surely you’ll still have the people who are like Littlefinger, Cersei who will try and claim the power, after all, it is the Game of Thrones and the wheel isn’t as broken as Tyrion would like to think. Despite hating Bran, I did like that the Starks are now the power family with each of them getting the power that is fitted to them. They’ve obviously been the central family for the audience to follow and support so it’s nice to start and the series with them. I am kind of torn about Season 8 as a whole, I dk think the Mad Queen should have happened but it would have been better had there been more episodes to allow it to build more naturally. I think the treatment of the two main antagonists (White Walkers & Cersei) also wasn’t great and, again, would have worked better over more episodes. |
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20th May 2019, 10:21 AM
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#39
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 October 2013
Posts: 31,028 User: 19,931
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Yeah, the mad queen storyline felt...right. But the way it was done I wish they'd just kind of not bothered. As I've said before, I think Dany should have taken the throne earlier. At least 2/3 episodes earlier, but maybe up to a season earlier. Having her go power-mad as the queen would have given that storyline some room to breathe and made it a little more believable.
Why didn't the unsullied kill Jon? |
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20th May 2019, 10:36 AM
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#40
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929 |
Second-BEST episode of the season, after episode 2.
Hold on, how is it really good when characters we don't like and find boring get elevated to the top? Because throughout this single episode, everything made sense. I didn't have to handwave any actions or explain anything away, it truly feels that no matter the shortened seasons, this was the finale we were always going to get. GRRM must have drafted the events that happened here in quite some detail. Simple example of why I feel that way can be summed up in the small council scene. That single scene made me realise how much I'd missed the true political intrigue of GoT, when words were weapons, and the actual weapons were sheathed. Bronn and Davos aren't antagonists right now, and their banter is much more friendly than previous small councils doing similar things, but that's what I got into this show for, the clever running of the kingdoms. The reintroduction of minor figures like Edmure Tully and even just an extra playing the new Dorne lord, it made the world feel bigger again. And for what it's worth, I'm so happy that characters like Davos and Brienne ended up where they did, they deserved to survive the war - Brienne writing out Jaime's deeds got me going a little. And the final solution, to turn the kingdoms into an elective monarchy, makes a whole lot of sense for their society and country, which has been for too long essentially seven vassal kings under a disliked central monarch, ripe for intrigue. Especially in the show's timeframe, when one of those seven has elevated themselves, it makes it unstable as all of the lords begin to see themselves as potentially the next king (or otherwise gaining power) if they use violence to get there. But at that meeting, if they'd suggested anyone other than Bran, I guarantee it would have descended into infighting. The Vale lords, Yara, they were ready to fight. To say nothing of Sansa. If Bran can't father children, he's the best choice to start off this new regime, a figurehead more than a family. Made even better by his family declaring independence and therefore no longer being involved. Who's to say how long this system will hold, but after all the talk about how Targaryens are born and the gods flip a coin, is the show really going to end by putting one of them back on the throne? No, and it's only by watching this episode did I realise, after Jon's talk with Tyrion, before he killed Dany, that he was never going to take the throne. It would just be about recreating a tyranny, if not through Jon himself, then perhaps his son. I reckon the new regime will be far more stable. There were a couple of moments I really like, the fear that was palpable as Dany announced her new regime, it just looked and sounded so evil in contrast to what she was saying. That was all I needed to get an idea of it, and despite that Jon didn't find it easy. The other moment was Drogon destroying the Iron Throne after he realised that it was that obsession that caused his mother's death. Dragons aren't stupid. It brought a lasting change, it resonated with me, they did a good job showing the kingdom go back to normality, I'm happy with that. And rather importantly, I can think of very few loose ends they didn't touch on. For the season overall: Rushed, yes. Some plot holes, yes. Enjoyable to watch all the way through.... yes. Some things I wish they'd done include make minor plot changes to defeat the Night King in perhaps episode 5 as the Dany/Jon alliance moves south, maybe they come face to face with Cersei, maybe Missandei gets killed as Cersei plays the game, causing Dany to go fire-burning in the moment of victory against the dead. Would have made a bit better, yes. Made it a lot better, no. So I do think that three seasons with 10 episodes with writing much closer to whatever the books and GRRM have in mind would have made this whole thing better, but I still very much enjoyed what happened. I also think time will be kind to this season, as people forget their unrealised theories, as they rewatch the whole thing. It may not have been the best we could have got, but it was good enough. I'm also sort of reminded of the Fullmetal Alchemist situation, one of the most popular manga ever, got an anime adaptation that made up an anime-original ending, still considered a great anime, but they made a more faithful adaptation under the subtitle Brotherhood 6 years later. No, a Brotherhood isn't coming for GoT, but we're getting spinoffs and that will keep the fans happy as they get a bit of a reboot. And that is it for Game Of Thrones, wow. It will go down as one of the best television series of all time, seasons 1-4 especially, but the latter half I do think will be more appreciated with time. also, btw, if anyone wanted more to be done with the White Walkers, Attack On Titan right now is giving me personally everything I could ever want, whole seasons in fact, about unstoppable monsters breaking past a huge wall to destroy humanity with pluses of political intrigue and massive spoilers about everything in the series... so if that part of GoT appeals to you, the twists, people dying, destruction of humanity etc go watch that. |
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