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 Victoria Beckham - 'Victoria Beckham' (VB), 2001 • 1st Album / 21st Anniversary |
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 1st October 2020, 04:56 PM
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#21
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 BuzzJack Regular
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Like That is my favorite song on the album. What a bop! Victoria should have played into her posh, rich lifestyle persona instead of marketing herself as a down to Earth woman with a naughty side.
Not Such An Innocent Girl was a terrible single choice. Victoria was 27 years old and married with a child. Did anyone really believe Victoria was an innocent girl? Come on...... |
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5th December 2020, 01:56 PM
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#22
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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I'm on a remix mood today and been BOPING to the Not Such An Innocent Girl (Sunship Mix Radio Edit) featuring M.C. RB who is a garage MC quite popular at the time.
It's quite the bop to be honest, and very much of the Year 2000 type of music, but I like it and could image some fun performances to it on tour or a special remix video being made for it to promo the album  It could have easily gone into a special edition of the album too, in a beautiful, more just world where the solo spices would sell enough to do such a thing!... What do you think? |
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5th December 2020, 02:25 PM
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#23
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We're all Glitter and Tears in the Moonlight...
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This album is nowhere near as bad as it was made out to be, sure the over reliance on the Garage sound has dated it somewhat, but there was some really good tracks on here & actually really enjoyed the first 2 singles 'Not Such An Innocent Girl' & 'A Mind of It's Own', 'Out of Your Mind' could have easily fitted this album also. Strange that it was left off, considering it was a big hit.
'Like That' - could have made a really good single & her vocals sound really rich & strong on this cool little track. If this was single #3 then could have easily been another top 10 hit for her, may have even charted higher than the other 2. 'Midnight Fantasy' - really poppy, catchy & fun, could have also done well if given a proper push. 'I Wish' - This has a nice minimal feel to it with some great vocals that shows another side to the album. |
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5th December 2020, 03:57 PM
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#24
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BuzzJack Regular
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I think part of the issue with their early solo works' perception is the total beating they took at the hands of British music publication reviews. And those reviews honestly weren't rational. NME's review of Northern Star suggested someone should just shoot Melanie C to death...and that no court would try them of the crime because the album was so bad.
Most of Victoria's reviews just accused her of being attention seeking and critique her as a media figure. There's hardly any mention of the music. And when there is a mention of the music (one review accuses A Mind Of Its Own of ripping off J Lo...huh?...), I'm not convinced the reviewer actually listened to anything. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I genuinely do think VB is a solid album for tracks 1-10 (and it loses me a bit with those last two songs). It's a perfectly likable album. Reviews of the time acting like it's an affront to the eardrums are absurd. And I never totally understood why Victoria was so hated by so many publications of the time. She was hardly outrageous. I remember the scandal over her wearing a lip ring in a Not Such An Innocent Girl performance...which seems so downright...quaint...by today's standards. |
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5th December 2020, 04:26 PM
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#25
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
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Like That & Midnight Fantasy are bops
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5th December 2020, 07:39 PM
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#26
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(Piers @ Dec 5 2020, 03:57 PM)  I think part of the issue with their early solo works' perception is the total beating they took at the hands of British music publication reviews. And those reviews honestly weren't rational. NME's review of Northern Star suggested someone should just shoot Melanie C to death...and that no court would try them of the crime because the album was so bad. Most of Victoria's reviews just accused her of being attention seeking and critique her as a media figure. There's hardly any mention of the music. And when there is a mention of the music (one review accuses A Mind Of Its Own of ripping off J Lo...huh?...), I'm not convinced the reviewer actually listened to anything. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I genuinely do think VB is a solid album for tracks 1-10 (and it loses me a bit with those last two songs). It's a perfectly likable album. Reviews of the time acting like it's an affront to the eardrums are absurd. And I never totally understood why Victoria was so hated by so many publications of the time. She was hardly outrageous. I remember the scandal over her wearing a lip ring in a Not Such An Innocent Girl performance...which seems so downright...quaint...by today's standards. Oh I wasnt aware. Personally I am content that I didnt live in the UK during the Spicemania specially towards the end of it as the press are so vile now, I can only imagine how they were back then. WILD about suggesting Mel C being shot. That wouldnt fly today at all, and no wonder with that level of 'criticism' that people moved on from this type of reviews. The press in the UK really is vile, abhorrent and often incites violence. It is no secret to anyone who actually listened, that the solo albums werent perfect but had A LOT to give, only to be shunned by the press at all times. This was no surprise to me at all, and yes mostly they read like reviews that arent actually about the music at all but about how much the reviewer hates the artist. A shame though. Albums like Northern Star and VB deserved much better critical reception (and public buy-in) for sure. Im glad that Flawless and Mel C both eventually managed to turn it around for themselves, but by then the damage was very much done to their careers (and to the delight of so many horrible men) and albums like Free Me and Melanie C deserved much more success than they got even if they got good reviews in the end. On VB, I do think that there is a gorgeous album in there and it is a stunning debut that any other artist of the time would be proud of. Like That, I Wish, No Trix, No Games and That Kind of Girl ARE AMAZING SONGS, some of the best Spice-related album tracks and some deserved to be singles. If she had better singles, I do think she could have done a bit better comercially. Will never understand why she released those two tracks as singles. They are great album tracks but no single material, in my opion.. |
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5th December 2020, 09:04 PM
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#27
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Dec 5 2020, 02:39 PM) Oh I wasnt aware. Personally I am content that I didnt live in the UK during the Spicemania specially towards the end of it as the press are so vile now, I can only imagine how they were back then. WILD about suggesting Mel C being shot. That wouldnt fly today at all, and no wonder with that level of 'criticism' that people moved on from this type of reviews. The press in the UK really is vile, abhorrent and often incites violence. It is no secret to anyone who actually listened, that the solo albums werent perfect but had A LOT to give, only to be shunned by the press at all times. This was no surprise to me at all, and yes mostly they read like reviews that arent actually about the music at all but about how much the reviewer hates the artist. A shame though. Albums like Northern Star and VB deserved much better critical reception (and public buy-in) for sure. To my ears, all of their solo albums had songs worthy of being hits up until LA State of Mind (...which just isn't a commercial album by design). There may be other artists who got attacked by UK publications about as much. I'm guessing people like Michael Jackson and Madonna probably did. But. I do quite seriously think no other artists in history were analyzed so much for their chart performances as the Spices. I was looking through the old Spicenews archives the other day...and it's bizarre reading articles from late 2000. They claim that solo success has alluded Emma and Victoria...when both of them had #2 singles by that point. Victoria's was even the 21st best selling single of the year in the UK. And yet...it was still a disaster? What other artist has been held to this standard? You look at the chart placings for major pop acts that followed; Girls Aloud, One Direction, Little Mix. They, of course, had big hits...but their chartings are kinda all over the place. One single does well. One does less well. It continues. A song charting outside the top ten doesn't spell near-certain doom for a career in the way it did for the solo Spices in the early days. Anyway. All that is to say there was a bit of an uncommon harshness in the write-ups for the Spices' music that, I think, inevitably impacted their longterm music careers. |
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5th December 2020, 09:53 PM
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#28
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(Piers @ Dec 5 2020, 09:04 PM) To my ears, all of their solo albums had songs worthy of being hits up until LA State of Mind (...which just isn't a commercial album by design). There may be other artists who got attacked by UK publications about as much. I'm guessing people like Michael Jackson and Madonna probably did. But. I do quite seriously think no other artists in history were analyzed so much for their chart performances as the Spices. I was looking through the old Spicenews archives the other day...and it's bizarre reading articles from late 2000. They claim that solo success has alluded Emma and Victoria...when both of them had #2 singles by that point. Victoria's was even the 21st best selling single of the year in the UK. And yet...it was still a disaster? What other artist has been held to this standard? You look at the chart placings for major pop acts that followed; Girls Aloud, One Direction, Little Mix. They, of course, had big hits...but their chartings are kinda all over the place. One single does well. One does less well. It continues. A song charting outside the top ten doesn't spell near-certain doom for a career in the way it did for the solo Spices in the early days. Anyway. All that is to say there was a bit of an uncommon harshness in the write-ups for the Spices' music that, I think, inevitably impacted their longterm music careers. Totally agree. I cant really point towards another girl band - or even band - that all solo efforts did well commercially at their level, probably apart from the members of the Beatles and Destiny's Child. Them being British women, specially some of them from working class backgrounds, they get held to much higher standards. Their solo records had half the budgets but twice the expectations of the Group put onto them. As a group they never went below Top2 so anything lower than that from them as solo artists was seen as a failure, as if you expect each of them to sell 20million records per album internationally and tour to Stadiums two years into their solo careers. It's jokes. And it did hurt them. It's sad really. As you say, some of those songs really deserved better and their treatment was bad from the industry and the press. They really had it for them. Just glad we got some bops along the way 
This post has been edited by Mr.X: 5th December 2020, 09:56 PM |
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5th December 2020, 10:03 PM
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#29
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 January 2009
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Dec 5 2020, 10:53 PM) Totally agree. I cant really point towards another girl band - or even band - that all solo efforts did well commercially at their level, probably apart from the members of the Beatles and Destiny's Child. Them being British women, specially some of them from working class backgrounds, they get held to much higher standards. Their solo records had half the budgets but twice the expectations of the Group put onto them. As a group they never went below Top2 so anything lower than that from them as solo artists was seen as a failure, as if you expect each of them to sell 20million records per album internationally and tour to Stadiums two years into their solo careers. I don't think it has to do with them being "women" or "working class" - they just set such an incredibly high bar for themselves with their six singles going to number one and 9 out of 10 singles going hitting the top spot. They ended up being held to ridiculously high standards that no one could live up to - H and Claire experienced sort of the same thing with their first single "only" going to number three and then the follow ups "only" hitting 8 and 10. Poor Lisa got dropped for having an #11 charting single and didn't get to properly release her album! I guess at least the Spices were able to get their albums out, even if they underperformed. |
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5th December 2020, 11:06 PM
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#30
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
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QUOTE(tommie @ Dec 5 2020, 10:03 PM) I don't think it has to do with them being "women" or "working class" - they just set such an incredibly high bar for themselves with their six singles going to number one and 9 out of 10 singles going hitting the top spot. They ended up being held to ridiculously high standards that no one could live up to - H and Claire experienced sort of the same thing with their first single "only" going to number three and then the follow ups "only" hitting 8 and 10. Poor Lisa got dropped for having an #11 charting single and didn't get to properly release her album! I guess at least the Spices were able to get their albums out, even if they underperformed. The Spice Girls released 18 solo albums to date, with four members releasing multiple albums each, all managing to achieve success in some form. That's quite an achivement in itself. I do think that it was unfair to hold them to the same standard as the group. |
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6th December 2020, 03:49 AM
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#31
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 "Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,558 User: 3,217
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QUOTE(Piers @ Dec 5 2020, 09:04 PM) To my ears, all of their solo albums had songs worthy of being hits up until LA State of Mind (...which just isn't a commercial album by design). There may be other artists who got attacked by UK publications about as much. I'm guessing people like Michael Jackson and Madonna probably did. But. I do quite seriously think no other artists in history were analyzed so much for their chart performances as the Spices. I was looking through the old Spicenews archives the other day...and it's bizarre reading articles from late 2000. They claim that solo success has alluded Emma and Victoria...when both of them had #2 singles by that point. Victoria's was even the 21st best selling single of the year in the UK. And yet...it was still a disaster? What other artist has been held to this standard? You look at the chart placings for major pop acts that followed; Girls Aloud, One Direction, Little Mix. They, of course, had big hits...but their chartings are kinda all over the place. One single does well. One does less well. It continues. A song charting outside the top ten doesn't spell near-certain doom for a career in the way it did for the solo Spices in the early days. Anyway. All that is to say there was a bit of an uncommon harshness in the write-ups for the Spices' music that, I think, inevitably impacted their longterm music careers. It's quite fascinating, but also shocking, to look back on what the media perception of the girls was like back in the 2000s - and you're right that they were held to a ridiculously high standard, while being regularly attacked. All four of Victoria's singles were dismissed as flops/failures, which is crazy - in reality, they were hits. Particularly Out of Your Mind. By no stretch of the imagination would Out of Your Mind have been deemed a flop by anyone else's standards... but it simply not reaching #1 is all it took to push the narrative that her solo career was off to a rocky start. Victoria, as much as she more than likely courted a lot of her press attention deliberately, really never did anything that warranted the way she was treated by the media and written about. I believe the papers and websites definitely caused a shift in the public's mood towards Victoria. It felt like so many people hated her for the sake of hating her. The other girls of course all faced pressures and bad press, but I feel like Victoria got the brunt of it. I was so disappointed when it eventually became apparent that her solo career was over and done with, but now, I'm actually quite surprised she persevered for as long as she did. She could have very easily thrown in the towel after the debut album. |
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6th December 2020, 01:23 PM
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#32
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Dec 6 2020, 12:06 AM) The Spice Girls released 18 solo albums to date, with four members releasing multiple albums each, all managing to achieve success in some form. That's quite an achivement in itself. I do think that it was unfair to hold them to the same standard as the group. Oh, don't get me wrong - I think it's unrealistic to assume they'd achieve anywhere near the success that Spice Girls did during those two years when they were at their biggest, I was just disagreeing that it was because they were working class women. Gary Barlow also got bashed when he released his first two albums, especially once Robbie eclipsed him popularitywise. It wasn't until the successful Take That reunion and his X-Factor stint that they started being kinder towards him. I guess for Melanie C it does seem like the press has turned again in her favour as Mel C got good reviews for a solo Spice album. In general it seems very hard for artists that come from a pop group to be taken seriously as a solo artist by the press. I guess the mentality is that people are put in a group for a reason (and to be honest, they're usually right). This post has been edited by tommie: 6th December 2020, 01:33 PM |
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6th December 2020, 01:38 PM
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#33
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
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QUOTE(tommie @ Dec 6 2020, 01:23 PM) Oh, don't get me wrong - I think it's unrealistic to assume they'd achieve anywhere near the success that Spice Girls did during those two years when they were at their biggest, I was just disagreeing that it was because they were working class women. Gary Barlow also got bashed when he released his first two albums, especially once Robbie eclipsed him popularitywise. It wasn't until the successful Take That reunion and his X-Factor stint that they started being kinder towards him. I guess for Melanie C it does seem like the press has turned again in her favour as Mel C got good reviews for a solo Spice album. Mel C changed the narrative herself by being great on the SW19 tour and being very pro Spice Girls again. Nobody wants Melanie to make being a Spice Girl feel like being a chore or curse and once she just truly embraced it she got people back on side. Imagine a pre-2019 Mel talking about a spice girls tour inspiring her new album and embracing her inner sporty spice. Melanie C the album is much closer to the fun, colourful, interesting Sporty Spice side to her and it's no coincidence it's more liked and we'll recieived. It felt for years like she was fighting to prove she wasn't sporty spice with her solo music and it just resulted in a lot of drab and uninspired music that didn't really feel authentic. The girls have taken a while but all but Geri seem to realise those characters are actually their strengths. Sporty is best when doing energetic, pop music, that's more fun and more care free. Mel B is best being a loud mouth, opinionated but endearing personality which is why she continues to get good TV work. Emma is that sweet, making nice music and doing things like Kit and Kin stuff. Victoria has finally realised that she was 'posh' in the Spice Girls because the rest were common not because she was that Posh. Her latest make up has played on Posh and her being more fun and playful, her nickname was posh not sophisticated which she misread I feel. Geri is the misnomer, I guess her main selling point was being ballsy and she just doesn't seem to have that anymore. She has tried to rebrand herself several times lately but non of them feel authentic. I hope she finds her inner ginger somehow, it doesn't need to be boobs out but for sure needs you be something more than these YouTube videos and dressing in white. This post has been edited by sammy01: 6th December 2020, 01:41 PM |
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6th December 2020, 06:10 PM
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#34
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
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QUOTE(tommie @ Dec 6 2020, 01:23 PM) Oh, don't get me wrong - I think it's unrealistic to assume they'd achieve anywhere near the success that Spice Girls did during those two years when they were at their biggest, I was just disagreeing that it was because they were working class women. Gary Barlow also got bashed when he released his first two albums, especially once Robbie eclipsed him popularitywise. It wasn't until the successful Take That reunion and his X-Factor stint that they started being kinder towards him. I guess for Melanie C it does seem like the press has turned again in her favour as Mel C got good reviews for a solo Spice album. In general it seems very hard for artists that come from a pop group to be taken seriously as a solo artist by the press. I guess the mentality is that people are put in a group for a reason (and to be honest, they're usually right). I did say working class women for a reason. The British press always has an agenda towards women and specially black, trans and/or working class women at that. Often the press likes to bring them up and then, once they get huge success, bring them down. Its the modem operandum by the British press specifically and the Spice Girls as a group and as solo artists are a clear example of that. That is not to say that other artists of other genders didnt get treated like that too, but you have to contextualize this case in point. There was a really interesting study not long ago about British female solo artists and the way the industry and press treats them, and I will try and hunt it down again as it was very interesting. Like, besides Melanie C, how many British solo pop artists have managed to release 8 solo albums whilst facing relentless criticism? Not many. Most dont go beyond album #2 or #3 because of the way that the industry and press treat them. Melanie is a resilient person and a multi-millionaire so she can do better than most in that regards, and doesnt need 'the industry' money to support her releases. But most in her position cant say the same. |
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6th December 2020, 07:19 PM
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#35
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 January 2009
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QUOTE(Mr.X @ Dec 6 2020, 07:10 PM) Like, besides Melanie C, how many British solo pop artists have managed to release 8 solo albums whilst facing relentless criticism? Not many. Most dont go beyond album #2 or #3 because of the way that the industry and press treat them. Melanie is a resilient person and a multi-millionaire so she can do better than most in that regards, and doesnt need 'the industry' money to support her releases. But most in her position cant say the same. Well, as you said - most artists don't make it past the second album because they can't find funding. Melanie obviously don't have to worry about that since she's a multi-millionaire and can afford to make music at a loss. Not saying she's making it with the intention to make a loss (obviously she's trying to at least break even), but she's also not risking ending up in the poor house. Part of that is down to the girls being smart enough to make good deals for themselves from the start as most people who've been in pop groups usually don't end up earning a lot from it (ask S Club 7 or Pussycat Dolls not named Nicole Scherzinger!). |
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11th February 2021, 07:10 AM
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#36
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,558 User: 3,217
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A Mind of Its Own was released as a single 19 years ago today!
 I know this song has its haters here... honestly, I have a soft spot for this song! It's really sweet. With hindsight I find it interesting that Victoria took quite a long time to release her follow up single. A Mind of Its Own's single release came 21 weeks after Not Such an Innocent Girl and 19 weeks after the album. Considering that both of those releases left the Top 40 quickly, it was quite a gap. Kind of strange to let the album die in Q4. I think it was remiss of her to have not had another single ready to release by late November or early December. This was the only music release from any Spice Girl in 2002 - it was such a quiet year! 
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11th February 2021, 07:29 AM
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#37
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 January 2009
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QUOTE(Jay❄ @ Feb 11 2021, 08:10 AM) With hindsight I find it interesting that Victoria took quite a long time to release her follow up single. A Mind of Its Own's single release came 21 weeks after Not Such an Innocent Girl and 19 weeks after the album. Considering that both of those releases left the Top 40 quickly, it was quite a gap. Kind of strange to let the album die in Q4. I think it was remiss of her to have not had another single ready to release by late November or early December. I don't think it's that odd to be honest when you consider how important it was to get top ten back then - they were probably legitimitely scared of any release they did was going to miss the top ten so they might've viewed releasing A Mind Of It's Own as a way to try and "re-launch" the album in the new year. I guess they could've released it in early January instead and had the promotion of it going on in December though, but I imagine they were afraid she'd have a hard time to get promo slots and garner radio airplay with all the tracks competing for attention. |
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11th February 2021, 09:18 AM
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#38
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 31 August 2010
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The video / styling to AMOIO was so odd!!
Sometimes i enjoy the song and other times i dont. |
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11th February 2021, 09:35 AM
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#39
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,106 User: 39,587
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Never really cared much for A Mind of It's Own. It's a nice chorus but it is vastly and completely let down by the spoken verses, they just dont work imo
Plus, the chorus is a bit out of Victoria's range  You can tell that they wanted to go with a single which had a big chorus to catch attention, but this wasnt a good idea at all, in my opinion.Her worst single, really wished she would have gone with another song like I Wish or NTNG. A Mind of It's Own is a great album track, but that's all... |
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11th February 2021, 12:40 PM
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#40
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 3 February 2018
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QUOTE(Jay❄ @ Feb 11 2021, 07:10 AM) A Mind of Its Own was released as a single 19 years ago today! I know this song has its haters here... honestly, I have a soft spot for this song! It's really sweet. With hindsight I find it interesting that Victoria took quite a long time to release her follow up single. A Mind of Its Own's single release came 21 weeks after Not Such an Innocent Girl and 19 weeks after the album. Considering that both of those releases left the Top 40 quickly, it was quite a gap. Kind of strange to let the album die in Q4. I think it was remiss of her to have not had another single ready to release by late November or early December. This was the only music release from any Spice Girl in 2002 - it was such a quiet year! 2002 was quite a depressing year in Spiceworld. There was no group activity and apart from Victoria’s one release, there was no other music from any of them. Between 1996-2001 we were spoiled really with group and solo releases. It’s mad to think how busy 2001 was in comparison to 2002 which was just.... 
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