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 Should 16/17 year-olds be allowed to vote in UK? |
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 Oct 28 2019, 06:39 PM
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#21
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,022 User: 18,639 
        
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Sooo people can vote from what, 50? Your right wing talking points get worse by the hour.
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Oct 28 2019, 06:46 PM
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#22
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Peentergeist @ Oct 28 2019, 06:39 PM)  Sooo people can vote from what, 50? Your right wing talkong points get worse by the hour. 18 is fine Michael. A lot of 18+ don't bother to turn up and vote. This post has been edited by Freddie Kruger: Oct 28 2019, 06:47 PM |
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Oct 30 2019, 09:23 AM
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#23
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,022 User: 18,639
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Why Labour didn't push for this I do not know. If 16 is old enough for war, it's old enough to vote. In fact even 15 year olds should be able to vote if they're likely to miss the election by just a few months before their birthday.
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Oct 30 2019, 11:03 AM
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#24
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,650 User: 3,272
    
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An amendment to lower the voting age was tabled but was not selected for debate.
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Oct 30 2019, 11:05 AM
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#25
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,022 User: 18,639
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Hmm why not?
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Oct 30 2019, 11:14 AM
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#26
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Peentergeist @ Oct 30 2019, 09:23 AM) Why Labour didn't push for this I do not know. If 16 is old enough for war, it's old enough to vote. That is a fallacy - 16yo's may be allowed to *join* the army, but they're not allowed into combat until 18. |
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Oct 30 2019, 11:15 AM
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#27
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,407 User: 12,929           
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I believe, quite apart from the political will which isn’t quite there, the extra admin work would be huge.
Should the future government legislate for a second referendum I would expect that they revisit this, that it’s being discussed now is promising for it happening in the near future. |
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Oct 31 2019, 11:54 AM
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#28
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Brown cow, stunning!
Joined: 7 December 2009
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Yep, along with increased political education in schools so that when the time comes that they can vote, young people have been pushed to engage a bit more, if they already don't.
As said, it just feels so wrong that 90 year olds can vote for a future they'll barely live out but then people who are entering the formative stage of their adult lives can't. People always argue back that at that age they don't know enough, well nor do so many grown adults (17,410,742 of them x). There are also so many things you CAN do at 16, you can commit to fight for your country for example but you don't have a say in its future. |
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Oct 31 2019, 02:54 PM
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#29
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Liаm @ Oct 31 2019, 11:54 AM) Yep, along with increased political education in schools so that when the time comes that they can vote, young people have been pushed to engage a bit more, if they already don't. But how do you ensure that this political education is unbiased? From what I see, it is currently far from that. QUOTE As said, it just feels so wrong that 90 year olds can vote for a future they'll barely live out but then people who are entering the formative stage of their adult lives can't. But their efforts & sacrifices help built the technologies and society that the young are now happy to benefit from - does that mean nothing? |
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Oct 31 2019, 03:16 PM
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#30
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 Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
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Correct. That means nothing when they’re voting to strip rights and crash the economy for the younger generations when they don’t use any of those rights via their own narrow minded choice and because they’ll be f***ing dead before the economy tanks irrecoverably
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Oct 31 2019, 03:59 PM
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#31
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,407 User: 12,929
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 31 2019, 02:54 PM) But how do you ensure that this political education is unbiased? From what I see, it is currently far from that. I find that hard to believe, in all my experience with political educators I have noted their skill in informing their students about their subject. The best presented their view and challenged you to think about it and agree or disagree with it. Unbiased delivery (or at least in the way enforced non-bias would be) is not good for education quality. Political education needs to be engaging and young people already engaged by a good teacher are very willing to get into long political discussions in a classroom setting. |
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Oct 31 2019, 04:03 PM
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#32
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 30 2019, 11:03 AM) An amendment to lower the voting age was tabled but was not selected for debate. That was Bercow then. |
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Oct 31 2019, 04:11 PM
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#33
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,407 User: 12,929
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also there's the problem of 'can't really enforce a non-bias' because nothing is unbiased and the positioning of your non-bias is in itself dependent on the national politics of the time. Political education should focus more on the key tenets of popular ideologies, liberalism, socialism, conservatism, all the way to communism and nationalism, how these map up to the current standings of political parties and why these are chosen by voters.
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Oct 31 2019, 04:15 PM
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#34
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,059 User: 3,474
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QUOTE(Tones and Iz @ Oct 31 2019, 03:59 PM) I find that hard to believe, in all my experience with political educators I have noted their skill in informing their students about their subject. The best presented their view and challenged you to think about it and agree or disagree with it. Unbiased delivery (or at least in the way enforced non-bias would be) is not good for education quality. Political education needs to be engaging and young people already engaged by a good teacher are very willing to get into long political discussions in a classroom setting. Think here it’s less “the teacher is biased” and more “my echo chamber is telling me it’s all liberal bias and I have no objective information to hand on this subject but the daily mail said...” |
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Oct 31 2019, 04:22 PM
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#35
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Oct 31 2019, 03:16 PM) Correct. That means nothing when they’re voting to strip rights and crash the economy for the younger generations when they don’t use any of those rights via their own narrow minded choice and because they’ll be f***ing dead before the economy tanks irrecoverably That has been the Remain claim all along, but there's only one way to prove/disprove it... |
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Oct 31 2019, 04:25 PM
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#36
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,407 User: 12,929
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I mean I'm just itching to anecdotally disprove that obvious line of liberal educators with one of my best lecturers often mentioning how Trump pulled a blinder yet he was also incredibly skilled and memorable on foreign policy matters. Academics don't let their beliefs define their teachings while still obviously holding those beliefs, it's something that comes with being highly educated. People who do let their beliefs define everything they say can't really seem to grasp that.
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Oct 31 2019, 04:32 PM
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#37
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 Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,868 User: 51
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editv - wrong thread, delete.
This post has been edited by Tawdry Hepburn: Oct 31 2019, 04:32 PM |
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Oct 31 2019, 08:02 PM
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#38
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,650 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Oct 31 2019, 04:22 PM) That has been the Remain claim all along, but there's only one way to prove/disprove it... So we should go ahead just in case it works out OK? No, I'm still not convinced it's a good idea. You'll have to try harder. |
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Oct 31 2019, 08:07 PM
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#39
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Oct 31 2019, 03:16 PM) Correct. That means nothing when they’re voting to strip rights and crash the economy for the younger generations when they don’t use any of those rights via their own narrow minded choice and because they’ll be f***ing dead before the economy tanks irrecoverably So why didn't more younger voters, 18+, get out bed or off their laptops and go and vote in the referendum. Not one of my late daughter's friends voted. Just apathy. They can't moan about the result if they didn't vote. |
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Oct 31 2019, 08:15 PM
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#40
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 1 June 2013
Posts: 527 User: 19,091
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QUOTE(Freddie Kruger @ Oct 31 2019, 08:07 PM) So why didn't more younger voters, 18+, get out bed or off their laptops and go and vote in the referendum. Not one of my late daughter's friends voted. Just apathy. They can't moan about the result if they didn't vote. I do think more needs to be done to engage young voters actually, but still for the reasons that Silas mentioned. They will be the ones that live with the economic consequences. |
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