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 30th August 2016, 09:02 PM
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#21
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
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Stagnation in the charts was bound to happen with the introduction of streaming into sales figures. People's streaming habits are different to actually buying downloads or physical copies. I can't really see how the charts can be changed apart from the format of the chart show itself. One thing for sure though is the charts have become boring and stale due to little movement and a lack of new entries each week.
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30th August 2016, 10:14 PM
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#22
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 12 September 2010
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I must admit adding streams as sales as made singles sales go stupidly high. This year could see maybe 15-20 songs shift 1 million units which is ludicrous.
I think they need to change how streams are added to the singles chart; Firstly the song has to be played in full to count towards the chart. Secondly there should be a cap in place so that a song is capped at 100 streams permanently. Finally only once a song has been streamed 100 times should it be counted as a chart sale. This would see sales drop but it would be more accurate and would create a faster moving chart with it becoming easier for more songs to reach the top 10. There's a lot of mess as well imo of how singles and albums are formatted which is going slightly off topic (apologies) but if I were a recording artist I certainly wouldn't allow my album to have the songs be allowed to be cherry picked or put on streaming services but would sell it in its entirety and reduce the price. A lot of people have said previously it would create a drop in single sales, but given streaming is the new main source for that it can be easily done with little impact. Adele has proven this given her recent strategy and has had 2 top 10 hits of an album that at the time had sold over 2.5 million units. |
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30th August 2016, 10:51 PM
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#23
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Say that hiss with your chest, and...
Joined: 24 May 2016
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QUOTE(360Jupiter @ Aug 30 2016, 08:24 PM)  My suggestion would be to just move on from it. Let the 'Official Chart' go the way of the Singles Sales Chart and become a footnote. Promote a new kind of chart like the US's Bubbling Under chart as THE arbiter of good new music, and play THAT on the radio once a week. That's what people (chart fans anyway) want from the chart - a signpost or exposure to or for great new songs, rather than a record of what people in this country like, which is what the current chart is. I can't think of a way to change the current chart because what it is right now is a pretty locked-down and accurate record of what people are consuming in their droves. Seems to me that's just not the thing about the chart that chart fans have liked in the past though, so maybe it's just not fit for purpose any more. Unbelievable to think.that in the early and mid 2000s the chart acted as both popularity indicator and signpost for new music with the up to 10 new entries each week. I wish it was back to that. It is also unbelivable that the charts have become so slow and uninteresting that we are having this discussion in the first place and raising the possibilty of excluding songs due to longevity on the chart and even letting the Official Chart on radio go in favour of a bubbling under. I think Radio 1 will scrap the chart soon anyway on radio for dance anthems or something. This post has been edited by TheSnake: 30th August 2016, 10:59 PM |
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31st August 2016, 01:16 PM
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#24
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 🔥🚀🔥
Joined: 30 August 2010
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QUOTE(TheSnake @ Aug 30 2016, 11:51 PM) Unbelievable to think.that in the early and mid 2000s the chart acted as both popularity indicator and signpost for new music with the up to 10 new entries each week. I wish it was back to that. It is also unbelivable that the charts have become so slow and uninteresting that we are having this discussion in the first place and raising the possibilty of excluding songs due to longevity on the chart and even letting the Official Chart on radio go in favour of a bubbling under. I think Radio 1 will scrap the chart soon anyway on radio for dance anthems or something. What I wouldn't mind is if Radio 1 broadcasted the Shazam top 40 instead of the actual top 40, but then they're probably not allowed to associate themselves with a single company so that won't happen. The Shazam top 40 this week, notably with many fresh songs (although Cheap Thrills is still in for some reason, I thought everyone knew that song by now) 1 = The Chainsmokers - Closer (feat. Halsey) 2 = Calum Scott - Dancing On My Own 3 = DJ Snake - Let Me Love You (feat. Justin Bieber) 4 +5 offaiah - Trouble 5 +5 Bob Marley - Is This Love (feat. LVNDSCAPE & Bolier) 6 -1 Kungs & Cookin' On 3 Burners - This Girl 7 -3 Christine And The Queens - Tilted 8 -2 TIEKS - Sunshine (feat. Dan Harkna) 9 +3 Twenty One Pilots - Heathens 10 -3 Major Lazer - Cold Water (feat. Justin Bieber & MØ) 11 -3 Jonas Blue - Perfect Strangers (feat. JP Cooper) 12 +4 Matoma & Becky Hill - False Alarm 13 +6 Martin Garrix - In The Name Of Love (feat. Bebe Rexha) 14 -3 The Chainsmokers - Don't Let Me Down (feat. Daya) 15 +46 Craig David & Sigala - Ain't Giving Up 16 -3 Anne-Marie - Alarm 17 -3 Kent Jones - Don't Mind 18 -3 Fifth Harmony - All In My Head (Flex) (feat. Fetty Wap) 19 NEW Cheat Codes & Dante Klein - Let Me Hold You (Turn Me On) 20 +34 John Newman - Olé 21 -4 Clean Bandit - Tears (feat. Louisa Johnson) 22 +2 Imany - Don't Be So Shy (Filatov & Karas Remix) 23 +16 Kanye West - Fade (feat. Post Malone & Ty Dolla $ign) 24 +8 Lil Wayne & Wiz Khalifa & Imagine Dragons - Sucker For Pain 25 +1 Snakehips - Cruel (feat. ZAYN) 26 +1 The 1975 - Somebody Else 27 -9 Bastille - Good Grief 28 -5 Sia - Cheap Thrills 29 +13 DNCE - Toothbrush 30 -10 Shawn Mendes - Treat You Better 31 -10 Kungs - Don't You Know (feat. Jamie N Commons) 32 -10 MØ - Final Song 33 -3 Cash Cash & Digital Farm Animals - Millionaire (feat. Nelly) 34 NEW Birdy - Wings Acoustic 35 +11 Jax Jones - House Work (feat. Mike Dunn & MNEK) 36 -7 Olly Murs - You Don't Know Love 37 -6 M.O - Who Do You Think Of? 38 +44 Ellie Goulding - Still Falling For You 39 -4 Calvin Harris - This Is What You Came For (feat. Rihanna) 40 +1 Tory Lanez - Luv |
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31st August 2016, 01:21 PM
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#25
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 you never forget your first time...
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The Shazam chart is waaay more interesting for sure but I 100% wouldn't be happy with Radio 1 broadcasting any chart other than the official chart, same goes for a bubbling under chart. It kinda defeats the point of the official chart if a different chart gets the airtime and attention. It's less interesting but it's still the chart that matters in the eyes of radio and record companies!
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31st August 2016, 01:25 PM
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#26
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Joined: 30 August 2010
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yeah I guess. That wasn't a serious suggestion by the way, just a lil moan at how slow the chart is right now but I guess there's nothing we can do about it.
At least we don't use the YouTube chart as the main chart, where Sorry and Work From Home are still top 10. http://kworb.net/youtube/insights/uk.html |
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31st August 2016, 01:32 PM
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#27
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
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surprised no one had mentioned yet one of the main reasons why the Spotify and the main chart are so stagnant: the Spotify playlists!!
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31st August 2016, 01:50 PM
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#28
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 June 2011
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QUOTE(Supercell @ Aug 30 2016, 11:14 PM) I must admit adding streams as sales as made singles sales go stupidly high. This year could see maybe 15-20 songs shift 1 million units which is ludicrous. I think they need to change how streams are added to the singles chart; Firstly the song has to be played in full to count towards the chart. Secondly there should be a cap in place so that a song is capped at 100 streams permanently. Finally only once a song has been streamed 100 times should it be counted as a chart sale. This would see sales drop but it would be more accurate and would create a faster moving chart with it becoming easier for more songs to reach the top 10. There's a lot of mess as well imo of how singles and albums are formatted which is going slightly off topic (apologies) but if I were a recording artist I certainly wouldn't allow my album to have the songs be allowed to be cherry picked or put on streaming services but would sell it in its entirety and reduce the price. A lot of people have said previously it would create a drop in single sales, but given streaming is the new main source for that it can be easily done with little impact. Adele has proven this given her recent strategy and has had 2 top 10 hits of an album that at the time had sold over 2.5 million units. I completely agree with all the above. |
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31st August 2016, 06:22 PM
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#29
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 #38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
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Why not just play the Trending chart in full that the OCC are compiling and then quickly re-cap the official Top 40 and play the number 1 in full?
Trending chart here: http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/t...g-chart__16174/ |
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31st August 2016, 06:30 PM
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#30
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🔥🚀🔥
Joined: 30 August 2010
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Aug 31 2016, 07:22 PM) Why not just play the Trending chart in full that the OCC are compiling and then quickly re-cap the official Top 40 and play the number 1 in full? Trending chart here: http://www.officialcharts.com/chart-news/t...g-chart__16174/ The OCC would have to fix the trending chart first. Stressed Out really should not be in such a chart. |
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31st August 2016, 07:32 PM
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#31
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 19 December 2015
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Why don't they incorporate Shazams? Genuine question - the song represents the discovery of a song as much as an iTunes buy so they should add it in.
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31st August 2016, 08:07 PM
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#32
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 29 June 2007
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QUOTE(danG @ Aug 30 2016, 06:07 PM) * delete all songs that have spent 20 weeks in the top 100 and have not sold enough to make the weekly top 50 from the chart * delete all album tracks from the chart (have record labels nominate singles) (or we will end up with something ridiculous like 8 Justin Bieber tracks top 20 when he releases his next album) * allow only one streaming equivalent sale per account for each song (though I'm not convinced this would make a lot of difference, how many people listen to songs more than 100 times?) * have a bubbling under top 25 like billboard alongside the new top 100 * count YouTube AUDIO streams (NOT streams of lyric or music videos, just those of just the audio) at a ratio of 1:200 (as YouTube pay out less than actual streaming services) I read this with interest, and the first is very easy to replicate with the current Top 200 singles chart. of that full Top 200, 103 have spent 21 or more weeks in the chart. The new Top 50 would be (removing all records after 20 weeks had elapsed no matter where they where in the chart). New Pos - Old Pos - Title - Artist - Weeks 1 - 1 - Cold Water - Major Lazer featuring Justin Bieber & MØ - 5 2 - 2 - Let Me Love You - DJ Snake featuring Justin Bieber - 3 3 - 3 - Closer - The Chainsmokers featuring Halsey - 4 4 - 5 - Heathens - TwentyOne Pilots - 10 5 - 7 - Perfect Strangers - Jonas Blue featuring J.P. Cooper - 12 6 - 9 - Treat You Better - Shawn Mendes - 12 7 - 10 - Too Good - Drake featuring Rihanna - 17 8 - 11 - This Girl - Kungs vs Cookin' On 3 Burners - 15 9 - 12 - This Is What You Came For - Calvin Harris // Rihanna - 17 10 - 13 - Sucker For Pain - Lil Wayne, Wiz Khalifa & Imagine Dragons with Logic, Ty Dolla $ign & X Ambassadors - 8 11 - 14 - We Don't Talk Anymore - Charlie Puth featuring Selena Gomez - 14 12 - 16 - Don't Mind - Kent Jones - 13 13 - 17 - Tears - Clean Bandit featuring Louisa Johnson - 13 14 - 18 - Can't Stop The Feeling! - Justin Timberlake - 16 15 - 19 - Alarm - Anne-Marie - 14 16 - 20 - Good Grief - Bastille - 10 17 - 21 - Into You - Ariana Grande - 16 18 - 22 - Final Song - MØ - 10 19 - 23 - Sunshine - TIEKS featuring Dan Harkna - 12 20 - 24 - In The Name Of Love - Martin Garrix & Bebe Rexha - 4 21 - 25 - Still Falling For You - Ellie Goulding - 1 22 - 26 - All In My Head (Flex) - Fifth Harmony featuring Fetty Wap - 10 23 - 27 - I Hate U, I Love U - Gnash featuring Olivia O'Brien - 19 24 - 28 - Tilted - Christine & The Queens - 10 25 - 29 - Ain't Giving Up - Craig David & Sigala - 1 26 - 30 - Send My Love (To Your New Lover) - Adele - 15 27 - 31 - You Don't Know Love - Olly Murs - 7 28 - 33 - Controlla - Drake - 17 29 - 36 - Hotter Than Hell - Dua Lipa - 16 30 - 37 - Who Do You Think Of? - M.O - 12 31 - 39 - Is This Love (Remix) - Bob Marley featuring LVNDSCAPE + Bolier - 9 32 - 40 - Let Me Hold You (Turn Me On) - Cheat Codes & Dante Klein - 6 33 - 41 - Cruel - Snakehips featuring Zayn - 6 34 - 43 - Kill 'Em With Kindness - Selena Gomez - 11 35 - 45 - The Ocean - Mike Perry featuring Shy Martin - 9 36 - 46 - Millionaire - Digital Farm Animals & Cash Cash featuring Nelly - 6 37 - 47 - Sex - Cheat Codes x Kris Kross Amsterdam - 20 38 - 49 - Ride - TwentyOne Pilots - 13 39 - 50 - False Alarm - Matoma & Becky Hill - 6 40 - 53 - Please Don't Go - Joel Adams - 12 41 - 55 - This One's For You - David Guetta featuring Zara Larsson - 15 42 - 56 - Piece Of Me - Mark Kinchen & Becky Hill - 17 43 - 58 - Mercy - Shawn Mendes - 1 44 - 62 - Luv - Tory Lanez - 7 45 - 66 - Toothbrush - DNCE - 7 46 - 67 - Gangsta - Kehlani - 3 47 - 68 - Starving - Hailee Steinfeld featuring Zedd & Grey - 3 48 - 70 - Give Me Your Love - Sigala featuring John Newman & Nile Rodgers - 17 49 - 71 - Cool Girl - Tove Lo - 3 50 - 72 - Purple Lamborghini - Skrillex & Rick Ross - 5 Now the below is the Top 40 of the other chart that would be produced - one which contained all records 21 or more weeks and we shall call "Catalogue". New Pos - Old Pos - Title - Artist - Weeks 1 - 4 - Dancing On My Own - Calum Scott - 22 2 - 6 - Don't Let Me Down - The Chainsmokers featuring Daya - 24 3 - 8 - One Dance - Drake featuring Wizkid & Kyla - 21 4 - 15 - Cheap Thrills - SIA - 32 5 - 32 - Hymn For The Weekend - Coldplay - 32 6 - 34 - Cake By The Ocean - DNCE - 30 7 - 35 - No Money - Galantis - 21 8 - 38 - I Took A Pill In Ibiza - Mike Posner - 35 9 - 42 - Work From Home - Fifth Harmony featuring Ty Dolla $ign - 26 10 - 44 - Panda - Desiigner - 23 11 - 48 - Needed Me - Rihanna - 30 12 - 51 - Lush Life - Zara Larsson - 36 13 - 52 - Light It Up - Major Lazer featuring Nyla & Fuse ODG - 41 14 - 54 - Sorry - Justin Bieber - 44 15 - 57 - Faded - Alan Walker - 32 16 - 59 - Work - Rihanna featuring Drake - 31 17 - 60 - Love Yourself - Justin Bieber - 41 18 - 61 - Stitches - Shawn Mendes - 53 19 - 63 - 7 Years - Lukas Graham - 34 20 - 64 - Middle - DJ Snake featuring Bipolar Sunshine - 25 21 - 65 - Stressed Out - TwentyOne Pilots - 34 22 - 69 - Girls Like - Tinie Tempah featuring Zara Larsson - 26 23 - 73 - Gold - Kiiara - 24 24 - 74 - Fast Car - Jonas Blue & Dakota - 33 25 - 76 - What Do You Mean? - Justin Bieber - 52 26 - 83 - Adventure Of A Lifetime - Coldplay - 42 27 - 84 - Shut Up + Dance - Walk The Moon - 69 28 - 88 - Chandelier - SIA - 113 29 - 89 - Mr. Brightside - The Killers - 470 30 - 96 - Lean On - Major Lazer x DJ Snake featuring MØ - 78 31 - 97 - Mama Said - Lukas Graham - 22 32 - 98 - Hello - Adele - 44 33 - 100 - Pompeii - Bastille - 178 34 - 101 - You Don't Own Me - Grace featuring G-Eazy - 27 35 - 103 - Desire - Years & Years - 76 36 - 104 - Dangerous Woman - Ariana Grande - 24 37 - 105 - Let It Go - James Bay - 83 38 - 107 - Roses - The Chainsmokers featuring ROZES - 34 39 - 108 - Hotline Bling - Drake - 56 40 - 109 - Uptown Funk! - Mark Ronson featuring Bruno Mars - 90 Keeping the Top 50 the same, and just having records removed below 50 and over 20 weeks would give us this for 51 - 80 New Pos - Old Pos - Title - Artist - Weeks 51 - 53 - Please Don't Go - Joel Adams - 12 52 - 55 - This One's For You - David Guetta featuring Zara Larsson - 15 53 - 56 - Piece Of Me - Mark Kinchen & Becky Hill - 17 54 - 58 - Mercy - Shawn Mendes - 1 55 - 62 - Luv - Tory Lanez - 7 56 - 66 - Toothbrush - DNCE - 7 57 - 67 - Gangsta - Kehlani - 3 58 - 68 - Starving - Hailee Steinfeld featuring Zedd & Grey - 3 59 - 70 - Give Me Your Love - Sigala featuring John Newman & Nile Rodgers - 17 60 - 71 - Cool Girl - Tove Lo - 3 61 - 72 - Purple Lamborghini - Skrillex & Rick Ross - 5 62 - 75 - Capsize - Frenship featuring Emily Warren - 9 63 - 77 - Nobody But Me - Michael Bublé - 1 64 - 78 - Hair - Little Mix featuring Sean Paul - 19 65 - 79 - Don't Need No Money - Imani Williams featuring Sigala and Blonde - 6 66 - 80 - Just Like Fire - P!nk - 19 67 - 81 - Trouble - offaiah - 4 68 - 82 - Kids - OneRepublic - 2 69 - 85 - Wherever I Go - OneRepublic - 15 70 - 86 - Somebody Else - The 1975 - 15 71 - 87 - Crash - Usher - 11 72 - 90 - Back To You - Mollie King - 1 73 - 91 - White Tiger - Izzy Bizu - 4 74 - 92 - Freak Like Me - Lee Walker & DJ Deeon featuring Katy B - 10 75 - 93 - Nikes - Frank Ocean - 1 76 - 94 - Rise - Katy Perry - 6 77 - 95 - For Free - DJ Khaled featuring Drake - 12 78 - 99 - A-List - WSTRN - 2 79 - 102 - Ivy - Frank Ocean - 1 80 - 106 - Sexual - NEIKED - 3 I agree with these suggestions * delete all songs that have spent 20 weeks in the chart and have not sold enough to make the weekly top 40 from the chart * delete all album tracks from the chart (have record labels nominate singles) I can't easily replicate the last one... That's my view 
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31st August 2016, 08:10 PM
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#33
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Radio 1 Enthusiast
Joined: 11 July 2016
Posts: 987 User: 23,440
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To make it better:
Remove streaming, add radio AirPlay, add TV plays. To kill it: Keep streaming, add radio AirPlay, add TV plays, add YouTube views and VEVO views. |
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31st August 2016, 08:12 PM
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#34
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Joined: 30 August 2010
Posts: 74,600 User: 11,746
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I don't agree with deleting songs with over 20 weeks that are still top 40/50, I wouldn't want to see songs like Dancing On My Own climb slowly to their peak and then get deleted when they're still really in the top 5.
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31st August 2016, 08:15 PM
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#35
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i can only do one normal thing a day
Joined: 25 July 2011
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My suggestion: do nothing, it's fine as it is
 I suppose it'd be nice if Radio 1 changed up their chart show format a bit to play some newer tracks in the 26-40 region (but i'm not sure they really care enough to do this) |
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31st August 2016, 08:19 PM
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#36
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Joined: 30 August 2010
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QUOTE(SevenSees @ Aug 31 2016, 09:15 PM) My suggestion: do nothing, it's fine as it is I suppose it'd be nice if Radio 1 changed up their chart show format a bit to play some newer tracks in the 26-40 region (but i'm not sure they really care enough to do this) the whole summer mix thing really makes me think they've had enough of the charts and couldn't care less for it now. i wouldn't be surprised if radio 1 eventually axed the chart show or condensed it to a top 10 to be played alongside the usual Greg James features on a Friday. |
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31st August 2016, 08:20 PM
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#37
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 19 December 2015
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QUOTE(danG @ Aug 31 2016, 09:19 PM) the whole summer mix thing really makes me think they've had enough of the charts and couldn't care less for it now. i wouldn't be surprised if radio 1 eventually axed the chart show or condensed it to a top 10 to be played alongside the usual Greg James features on a Friday. That'd somewhat sap all life from the Chart Forum, so they better not do that. |
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31st August 2016, 08:27 PM
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#38
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
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I'm not surprised Radio 1 are fed up with the charts. They've shoehorned it in to the Friday evening schedule due to the OCC giving into record label pressure after the global release day being a thing. This was pointless in retrospect because the point was so that new releases could all have a full weeks sales but since most new releases take a while to climb up these days, it really wouldn't make a difference now to keep the chart on a Sunday. Plus I imagine they get fewer listeners because people are busier on a Friday night than a Sunday afternoon. This has lead to them shortening the chart but down to streaming that means they're playing mostly the same tracks every week which is exhausting. And the charts reflect more than ever the taste of teenagers over anyone else and since no one who works at Radio 1 is in that demographic, they're probably perplexed as to why the chart is so stagnant. If I worked there, I'd definitely jump at the chance of cutting 5 trashy long runners from the schedule to play a Summer mix of past glories that never overstayed their welcome in the chart.
That's as I see the situation anyway. |
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31st August 2016, 08:56 PM
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#39
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 The owls are not what they seem
Pronouns: He/him
Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,134 User: 9,232
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There was another thread that was discussing similar things to this a while back so I can just repeat my comment from there that the best thing Radio 1 can do is actually promote the new music, whether it's new entries from the sales chart or trending chart or whatever over the same twenty records every week, only playing significant movement in the top 40 and dedicate the rest to new music (as it is 'new music fridays' after all). I also like Dan's suggestion of cutting every song that spends 20+ weeks there and aren't selling enough to make the top 50, I've been previously against this but I think it's got to the point where it needs to happen to allow new music to come in.
I'm not expecting anything to happen though, and like I said, Radio 1 are fast losing interest in the chart so it's only a matter of time before it just becomes like the chart update and not a full show dedicated to it as I can't imagine it's getting them many listeners (And honestly why would it? I don't know how some of you listen to this week in week out without fail these days, you are braver than I!). QUOTE(TMD_24 @ Aug 31 2016, 09:10 PM) To make it better: Remove streaming, add radio AirPlay, add TV plays. To kill it: Keep streaming, add radio AirPlay, add TV plays, add YouTube views and VEVO views. No, the first option would just kill it even more. I'd hate the likes of 4Music's ten song playlist actually contributing to the charts :/ This post has been edited by Chez Wombat: 31st August 2016, 08:58 PM |
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31st August 2016, 09:16 PM
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#40
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Say that hiss with your chest, and...
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 18,478 User: 23,308
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Aug 31 2016, 09:27 PM) I'm not surprised Radio 1 are fed up with the charts. They've shoehorned it in to the Friday evening schedule due to the OCC giving into record label pressure after the global release day being a thing. This was pointless in retrospect because the point was so that new releases could all have a full weeks sales but since most new releases take a while to climb up these days, it really wouldn't make a difference now to keep the chart on a Sunday. Plus I imagine they get fewer listeners because people are busier on a Friday night than a Sunday afternoon. This has lead to them shortening the chart but down to streaming that means they're playing mostly the same tracks every week which is exhausting. And the charts reflect more than ever the taste of teenagers over anyone else and since no one who works at Radio 1 is in that demographic, they're probably perplexed as to why the chart is so stagnant. If I worked there, I'd definitely jump at the chance of cutting 5 trashy long runners from the schedule to play a Summer mix of past glories that never overstayed their welcome in the chart. That's as I see the situation anyway. But why do the teenagers listen to the same songs for so long on spotify...Is it because they are in school and do not listen to the radio much and so don't get bored by the songs? Whereas many adult workplaces, particularly retail and some factories have the radio on a lot so young adults get bored of pop records sooner This post has been edited by TheSnake: 31st August 2016, 09:19 PM |
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