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Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 3rd February 2018, 10:39 PM

As we all know, the Spices SPLIT in 2000, with their split announced by The Sun, as they did not dare announce it officially. I think that was actually quite bad on us fans, seeing it on newspapers on the way to school, but anyway.

They had released Forever, which got to no.2, an rnb/ pop album, and had a Double-A-Side No.1 with Hollier/ Let Love Lead The Hollier, and a cancelled single release for Christmas of, If You Want To (Have Some Fun)/Hollier.



The question is: could they have been salvaged? Was there a way for the band to go forward?


I was always really disappointed with their split, and the fact they only left us with two listenable albums, but I've been thinking recently: it was absolutely the right thing to do. Forever is among the WORST pop albums I've ever heard, up there (or down there?) with Witness. It was SMASHED by Westshite. Even though their album was also awful, it had accessible pop hits. Forever is in NO way accessible. Look at the old 2000 reviews left on Amazon - they SLATE it, saying they are 'done', that the album 'has finished them', no way back, etc. I agree. Their double-A-Side was EXCELLENT, but no bigger than the no.1s around it - Black Coffee, Shite Life the week after, all one week no.1s that flew down the charts in 7 weeks. They were lucky not to go against Shitelife, or they would have lost their lead single no.1 run for sure. And this was a Double-A-Side - two songs!! The press was also against them, and people were being divided into Westshite or Spice Girls fans. Their sales had fallen so low that Westshite were now RIVALS to a band that was supposed to be on another level.

Their next single was cancelled, as it was awful. It doesn't bear thinking about where it would have got on the charts. They had NO other single to release. The album was done. They COULD have come back with another album, but with what style of music? If rnb, it would have been inaccessible and clunky, just like Forever, and if pop it would have been seen as a regression. And how long would they wait - 2001, 2002? They all had solo careers at the same time, and their solo songs were ALL MUCH bigger than the last Spice era, with their eras longer, more successful, and with more control over their own music, i.e not collaborative. If they had waited until 2002, they would have been seen even more as 90s relics, as that's kinda what they felt like in 2000. It was super uncool to like them at that point as well. If they had waited until 2002, almost inevitable, given that they would need to change their entire sound AGAIN after Forever's reception and because they were all focused on successful solo careers, they would have been against Westlife, DANIEL BEDINGFIELD, SUGABABES and GIRLS ALOUD, which all feel like they come from a very different era. When Girls Aloud and Sugababes got big, it basically ended any chance of them coming off the hiatus. That's not even to mention Atomic Kitten and Will Young. The hiatus would probably have ended with only THREE of them - minus Mel C, who was past caring. Imagine making a stellar album like Northern Star, alone, at the same time as making a sub-par one like Forever? After making such a bad album as a GROUP, why would she want to try again when she had her own career now?

I also don't think they could have risked it. The press was already all over them, and the music of Forever was SO BAD that it might have led to ANOTHER sales collapse. Then, they might have missed even getting to no.1 with any single. From being a band compared to the Beatles to one beaten by Westlife, they couldn't really risk tarnishing their legacy with really bad sales.

But what do you think? Could they have pulled it off?

Posted by: Spiceboy 3rd February 2018, 11:05 PM

First of all 'Shitelife' is incredibly offensive and immature. Second they were beaten by one of the biggest British bands of all time not just your average Joe. I'm no Westlife fan but I can admit they sold millions in the UK and had 14 #1 singles and 7 #1 albums.

Second I believe by all means they could have continued after Forever, and actually turned Forever into a fairly successful era had they wanted to. While they were obviously no-where near the level of their peak they still sold 300,000 copies of Forever with just one single release and only one major stage performance. Had they continued with the campaign and released further singles they would easily have been hits and helped to keep the album selling. Forever would never have achieved the same sales as Spice and Spiceworld but could have gone on to be a double platinum album if not more had they just been bothered to keep promoting it. I highly doubt they would have kept their run of top 2 singles though...

Posted by: Jay ☆ 4th February 2018, 12:18 AM

I find it hard to conclusively answer this, so I've voted "maybe".

I think if all the girls had been happy in themselves / were still getting on well with each other / felt passionate about the album and were accepting of the fact that they wouldn't replicate the huge success of their two previous albums - then yes, they could have continued. I think they could have easily released another two singles, though perhaps they'd have become their first singles to miss the Top 2 in the UK (who knows). The group never allowed themselves to go far enough to experience lower charting singles and remove the pressure of the constant expectation of #1. I'm sure there'd have still been a demand to see them on tour if they'd announced one, probably with a main focus on the UK & the odd few dates in other European countries.

The thing is, all was not well with them... Melanie C was clearly over it before the single/album were even released. There was a definite friction between the girls (mostly based on hearsay i.e. the Forever album launch party), and obviously all of them had caught "the solo bug" and wanted to focus on that. It really seems that once the album was released, they felt they'd done what they were obligated to do, and wanted to move on. As a group, they evidently weren't motivated to see this album era through. I really think their demise was purely their own doing, and little to do with the quality of the music or the commercial potential of that music.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 12:27 AM

What was that hearsay?

All I saw was what was reported in the papers, about how Mel C had a 'foul-mouthed meltdown' about that awful band and how they only sang covers? I think that shows they were frustrated that they no longer had huge success, and more than that were at #2. Their album FLEW down the chart the weeks after, with most of the sales coming from first-week buys. I think that shows, especially with the best two songs already released, with two songs already out there to judge the album (3 with 'Goodbye'), that the public wasn't here for the material. It was weak. I guess they didn't believe in it, and saw that they had released three songs fro the album already, and so left it for their solo projects.

NME reported that they thought it was an unfair fight, as Westlife were promoting a lot and the Spice Girls weren't, and had taken a risk for their sound anyway,

http://www.nme.com/news/music/westlife-56-1396974

Posted by: schizo_spice 4th February 2018, 02:45 AM

I'm glad Tell Me Why was never a single.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 06:53 AM

It would have EASILY been their worst single ever, B sides included.

There was a rumour they were going to release ANOTHER double A-side, as the material was weak, with Right Back At Ya, with it available in both pop and rnb versions for extra sales, with If You Wanna (Have Some Fun).

Posted by: Jay ☆ 4th February 2018, 07:33 AM

^ A rumour that only started 40 minutes ago?

Tell Me Why was planned to be the next single; a radio edit & club remixes were commissioned (released via promos in December 2000). Ultimately the Spice Girls decided to part ways before it went as far as being an officially confirmed single.

Virgin may have had If You Wanna Have Some Fun in mind to be a single too; a radio edit & promotional video were created.

Right Back At Ya wasn't in the running to be a single. The original pop version is a scrapped demo, there were never plans for that to be released as part of a single.

By the way, The Sun ran an article in the middle of January 2001 about the girls having abandoned the Forever album, which included a quote from Emma about the album promotion having come to "a natural end" and that there'd be no more singles ( http://tmuchspces.tripod.com - lol at this old fan page and the angry opening message!). I assume Virgin wouldn't have gone to the trouble of creating remixes and promos if they'd known that the Spice Girls were going to cease all activity. So I'm guessing that the Spice Girls' decision to part company happened sometime between Virgin beginning to get the ball rolling with Tell Me Why, and Christmas.

Posted by: sammy01 4th February 2018, 07:57 AM

I'd have been happy with Tell me why and If you wanna have some fun being released. An xmas in Spice World 10 date UK tour and that be the end of the girls till 2007.

2 more singles and a tour to go out on with Forever tracks being sung live would have been great.

Posted by: vibe 4th February 2018, 11:22 AM

No they couldn’t

Melanie C - didn’t want to be a spice girl anymore !!

Posted by: Lukuzz 4th February 2018, 11:42 AM

Forever is nowhere near as bad as you are making it out to be. Personally I LOVE the album and there are songs on there that grow on me every year. Tell Me Why and IFWHSF could have been hits imo. There are other really good ones on there too such as Get Down With Me, Wasting My Time. And I’ve grew to really love Time Goes By (which imo is there best ever song vocals wise).

It didn’t do as well as Geri left and she was really a driving force in the band, also taking a slightly different direction away from the pop music and being more mature sounding didn’t help. I think it could have been a lot bigger if they weren’t all concentrating on their solo careers. Mel C wasn’t invested in it anymore and they just didn’t have the passion they had with the first two albums.

Anyway I still love and play the album, very underrated imo.

Posted by: Blond 2.0 4th February 2018, 02:15 PM

After holler they were already bored from it all LOL

Posted by: Michael Andrew 4th February 2018, 03:23 PM

QUOTE(Lukuzz @ Feb 4 2018, 11:42 AM)

Posted by: Lukuzz 4th February 2018, 03:25 PM

QUOTE(Michael Andrew @ Feb 4 2018, 03:23 PM)

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 05:04 PM

QUOTE(Blond 2.0 @ Feb 4 2018, 02:15 PM)

Posted by: Spiceboy 4th February 2018, 05:24 PM

So here for the Get down with me love After the singles it’s easily my fave track on there could have seen that being abother top 2 hit for them. I’m kinda glad tell me why didn’t happen as I’m not the biggest fan of that one. IYWHSF could have worked with a bit of a remix to the chorus so it was a bit more dynamic.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 06:12 PM

QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ Feb 4 2018, 07:33 AM)

^ A rumour that only started 40 minutes ago?

Tell Me Why was planned to be the next single; a radio edit & club remixes were commissioned (released via promos in December 2000). Ultimately the Spice Girls decided to part ways before it went as far as being an officially confirmed single.

Virgin may have had If You Wanna Have Some Fun in mind to be a single too; a radio edit & promotional video were created.

Right Back At Ya wasn't in the running to be a single. The original pop version is a scrapped demo, there were never plans for that to be released as part of a single.

By the way, The Sun ran an article in the middle of January 2001 about the girls having abandoned the Forever album, which included a quote from Emma about the album promotion having come to "a natural end" and that there'd be no more singles ( http://tmuchspces.tripod.com - lol at this old fan page and the angry opening message!). I assume Virgin wouldn't have gone to the trouble of creating remixes and promos if they'd known that the Spice Girls were going to cease all activity. So I'm guessing that the Spice Girls' decision to part company happened sometime between Virgin beginning to get the ball rolling with Tell Me Why, and Christmas.

Posted by: Jay ☆ 4th February 2018, 07:26 PM

If so, they are false!


Wasting My Time was my favourite non-single when the album was new, a bit of an “out there” choice seeing as a lot of fans dislike it! Get Down With Me really grew on me over the years. I liked IYWHSF more back in the day than I do now (it drags on a bit), but the radio edit of it is good!

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 07:32 PM

Oh, I would NEVER listen to the 5 minute version!!

Posted by: Jay ☆ 4th February 2018, 07:36 PM

Are you having funnnnnnn, are you having funnnnnnnnn? x infinity

Posted by: Michael Andrew 4th February 2018, 07:39 PM

QUOTE(Spiceboy @ Feb 4 2018, 05:24 PM)

Posted by: Michael Andrew 4th February 2018, 07:42 PM

QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ Feb 4 2018, 07:36 PM)

Are you having funnnnnnn, are you having funnnnnnnnn? x infinity

Posted by: Jay ☆ 4th February 2018, 07:59 PM

Exactly!


All this talk about Forever makes me think it'd be a nice idea to have a survivor or rank thread for this album, see what the general consensus is. Although maybe it'd make more sense to start with Spice and eventually get around to doing it for Forever? *Ponders*

Posted by: Michael Andrew 4th February 2018, 08:52 PM

Oh yes. I think some album ranks would be great. When you have time, of course, Jay!

I think chronologically would make sense. But 'Forever' will be an interesting one.

Posted by: Spiceboy 4th February 2018, 09:16 PM

QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ Feb 4 2018, 07:26 PM)

If so, they are false!
Wasting My Time was my favourite non-single when the album was new, a bit of an “out there” choice seeing as a lot of fans dislike it! Get Down With Me really grew on me over the years. I liked IYWHSF more back in the day than I do now (it drags on a bit), but the radio edit of it is good!

Posted by: Blond 2.0 4th February 2018, 10:21 PM

I wanted Oxygen as a single

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 10:48 PM

That is one of the WORST ONES!!

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 10:49 PM

QUOTE(Michael Andrew @ Feb 4 2018, 07:42 PM)

By which time, the answer was probably "Not so much"

Posted by: Jay ☆ 4th February 2018, 11:00 PM

I'd like Oxygen more than I do, if there wasn't a dripping noise sound effect in the chorus. I find that grating.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 11:11 PM

Just listened to WMT and GDOM - they are literally the same song :/

This was such a bad album.

Posted by: Michael Andrew 4th February 2018, 11:18 PM

I liked 'Oxygen' too.

But the vocals are a bit too up-close and personal for me. In places I can hear lip-smacking/swallowing sounds. It's like listening to a noisy eater.

With a bit of polish though, it could've worked as a single. I'd say it is more immediately catchy than 'Time Goes By' (my favourite).

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 4th February 2018, 11:21 PM

It is literally a slab of inaccessible cheese, and ew that stuff makes the song gross too!! Blue cheddar.

Posted by: Michael Andrew 5th February 2018, 12:44 PM

Also, to me 'Pain Proof' was the spiciest thing they did after Geri left. So much attitude and girl power.

It's like 'Say You'll Be There' meets 'Step To Me'.

I'd have loved it to be on the album, and a single too.

Posted by: Mr.X 5th February 2018, 12:52 PM

They totally could have done more, but as Jay says, they kind of sabotagged the whole thing themselves - probably because the media treated them so f***ing unfairly at the time. The media were NASTY about them, as were members of the public (Victoria had innumerous death threats and was considered the most hated woman in UK, Mel C had the UK media on her throat for her weight, etc) and they probably got better time with solo adventures because they were much much less scrutinised, so of course they jumped ship...

Also, the fact they only had ONE WEEK of promotion for the album together (all TV was recorded on that week, as were all magazine interviews, as mentioned in their autobigraphies) just shows they didnt really pay the album much attention.

I would have loved it if they had gone through with at least a couple more singles and a tour, like it seemed they had planned. There was news at the time that they were planning a tour - and I believe there was confirmation of a date in Wales in the Millenium Centre at the time?! - so it was sad they cancelled that.

I would have LIVED for a tour of that album. But alas, such is the world...

Posted by: Michael Andrew 5th February 2018, 02:44 PM

So true. The media wanted them to fail after Geri left. It was amazing they got 'Forever' to #2 in the face of all that. And that Holler/LLLTW got to #1.

It saddens me to think how young they were to be treated that way by the press. Their career achievements deserved much more respect. They worked so hard to earn their success.

It's no wonder they bailed.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 5th February 2018, 03:19 PM

The press were AWFUL to them. The media had started he narrative that they were over when they got booed that time, basically relling us to stop liking them. 'The Spice Bubble Has Burst!' EXCEPT um it hadn't. They just wanted that narrative.

Then when Geri left, the press was EVEN WORSE. Things like that shoe how much we need a strong press commissioner. Again, it radicalised people and there was a red (sniper?) light on VB when they were rehearsing for the Brits. When they ernt to check, the back door had been propped open. She received death threats and was HATED thanks to them, with the press also trying to stoke jealousy of her being married to David.

They had to try and be successful whilst they had themost hated woman in Britain in the band and with relentless press attacks. Mel C was especially savaged too, and with her depression that was not good. I'm not surprised they stopped to try and salvage their legacy.

Posted by: Spiceboy 6th February 2018, 10:59 PM

QUOTE(Michael Andrew @ Feb 4 2018, 07:39 PM)

Definitely agree with the need of a remix of IYWHSF. I'm glad the album version didn't get used as a single.

I have no musical knowledge or ability whatsoever, but I sped it up a tiny bit on Audacity and it's a much better listen.

'Get Down With Me' however was single material as it was.

Posted by: Spiceboy 6th February 2018, 11:00 PM

QUOTE(Michael Andrew @ Feb 4 2018, 07:42 PM)

By which time, the answer was probably "Not so much"

Posted by: Spiceboy 6th February 2018, 11:02 PM

QUOTE(Michael Andrew @ Feb 5 2018, 12:44 PM)

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 9th February 2018, 06:51 PM

I've relistened to the album, and what are y'all talking about??

Get Down With Me is filler!! The album is awful. They had two choices for single - IYWTHSF or Right Back At Ya. They might have been top 20/ top 10 hits. Wanna Have Some Fun sounds better sped up - I did it on yotube, at 1.25x speed.

If they couldn't even be bothered to make a stellar album, I think it shows they were done with th band.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 9th February 2018, 09:47 PM

Pain Proof/ the demos are all equally terrible and/or cheesy too

They were REALLY struggling to find a voice/ sound

Posted by: Michael Andrew 9th February 2018, 09:51 PM

In my opinion, 'Right Back At Ya' is too cheesy and obvious. It's like a weaker version of 'Everybody (Backstreet's Back)'.

It wasn't 'cool' to like the Spice Girls anymore. So a single would've needed more of a hook than "the Spice Girls are back". Non-fans wouldn't have been interested in that.

No one is saying the album is stellar. Personally, I don't think they could've continued their high chart positions. But they could've carried on, if they wanted to. And I would've loved it.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 9th February 2018, 09:56 PM

Well, all of the album except from the three singles, and maybe If You Wanna, is cheesy tbh :/

Posted by: Feel_The_Fever 12th February 2018, 11:55 PM

Yes, but only if they had returned to their pop sound. I always felt they split far too quickly but it has resulted in them been remembered as a huge band who conquered the world. Maybe if they had continued and the success was fading they wouldn't be remembered as legendary 20 years on.

Posted by: Michael Andrew 13th February 2018, 12:10 PM

QUOTE(Feel_The_Fever @ Feb 12 2018, 11:55 PM)

Posted by: cripesdude 13th February 2018, 02:30 PM

My position on the Forever era is that I wish we had gotten the pop version in 1999. We could have had WOMAN, Pain Proof, or Give You What You Want follow Goodbye as singles, with Right Back At Ya on a possible double-A side. The Christmas in Spiceworld tour could have been expanded slightly to add dates/locations... and then if it all ended until 2007, that wouldn't have been so bad. The only downside here is we might not have gotten Holler, which is awesome! I think through that route they could have gotten a third No 1 album and maybe one or two more No 1 singles though... They simply waited too long to release Forever, and the purer RnB style just wasn't them.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 13th February 2018, 04:20 PM

This is obviously a HUGE bop. It would have sounded excellent in 1999, and been used for the massive new millennium, making them sound more relevant in 2000.

The problem wa,s leaving it as long as they did, they came back uncool, like relics of the 90s. Their change in style wasn't authentic and came across badly. The music didn't suit them either, and it was very plodding/ samey. It was hard for them to continue due to just how unpopular/ uncool they were seen as.

We would have needed Holler though! If they had released the pop album, but with Holler and Let Love Lead The Way on, they would have got another no.1 album. Release the album in 99, avoid Westlife, with Woman starting the era, then in 2000 release Holler// Let Love Lead The Way. Then they could have finished on more of a high, like you said with a slightly extended tour, and then gone on to their solo careers.

It was always gonna be hard continuing when they were seen as an uncool 90s act.

If they HAD released a 4th album ... it would probably have had between a Saturdays - Girls Aloud style success, not Little Mix big. A 3rd pop album in 99 would have probably been Little Mix big, which would have been absolutely fine.

Posted by: Spiceboy 13th February 2018, 09:37 PM

I truly do not get the fan hype over WOMAN. It sounds ok but very repetitive and the lyrics are cringey as hell...

Posted by: Michael Andrew 14th February 2018, 04:10 PM

QUOTE(Spiceboy @ Feb 13 2018, 09:37 PM)

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 14th February 2018, 06:50 PM

QUOTE(Spiceboy @ Feb 13 2018, 09:37 PM)

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn 14th February 2018, 08:00 PM

I feel like all carrying on after Forever would have equated to was a #6 single and a #24 album.

Posted by: Jüpiter 14th February 2018, 08:15 PM

Agree they left it too long. They were torn on what they could do as well. If they'd lasted til then they could've gone Kylie CGYOMH era pop, that would've been solid, and in between they could have had Mel B do some rap perhaps if they were going for an urban sound, like Little Mix did circa Salute. Trying to do urban as four singers with one singer that didn't even want to sing so much was always going to be a tough sell.

It didn't even need to be so successful though, with their back catalogue and wealth. They could have had one not-so-good era and then switched back to pure pop in the next one, perhaps ready to get a new generation of fans.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 14th February 2018, 09:40 PM

Their crisis of identity/ sound when Geri left, which made them delay, was what did it - and the damage was irreparable. They still can't get hits today.

If they had continued with pop, Goodbye/ Woman sounding, then they could have had one last bigish era. If they had Holler, they could have released that as a stand-alone song as 'a celebration of the Millennium/ girl power in it', THEN split and gone for their solo careers around the same time anyway.

I bet what happened is they recorded Holler, it sounded LIT, and so they decided to do ALL rnb, and created a plodding mess.

Posted by: Jay ☆ 14th February 2018, 11:24 PM

Woman and Holler were recorded within weeks of each other, in August 1999. Along with Right Back at Ya, they were performed at the Christmas in Spiceworld tour in December 1999. This suggests that they weren't thinking of making their third album so R&B focused at that point in time, and wanted it to be a mix of pure pop and R&B styles (Right Back at Ya had pop flavoured production in 1999, so they actually previewed two new pop songs and one R&B song).

These were the initial recording sessions:

2nd August 1999 - Abbey Road Studios - Stannard/Rowe
1 "Woman"
2 "Treasure"
3 "Go, Go, Go"
4 "Overnight"
5 "Too Hot"

16th August 1999 - Steelworks Studios - Kennedy/Lever
5 "Right Back At Ya"
6 "A Day In Your Life"
7 "Give You What You Want" (Also known as "If It's Lovin' On Your Mind")
8 "Pain Proof"

25th August 1999 - Whitfield Street Studios - Rodney/Fred Jerkins
9 "Holler"
10 "Let Love Lead The Way"
11 "Weekend Love"

21st September 1999 - Whitfield Street Studios - Jimmy Jam/Terry Lewis
12 "Oxygen"
13 "If You Wanna Have Some Fun"


They didn't start working on the album again until April 2000, recording more tracks with Rodney/Fred Jerkins. It would have been around this time that a decision was made regarding the album's direction (i.e. scrapping the pop sessions & going fully R&B).

10th April 2000 - Miami - Rodney/Fred Jerkins
14 "Tell Me Why"
15 "Get Down With Me"
16 "Time Goes By"

17th July 2000 - Whitfield Street Studios - Fred Jerkins
17 "Wasting My Time"
("Right Back At Ya" re-worked with new vocals and production. Eliot wasn't happy with his song being reproduced, referring to the new version as being a "plodding, boring, bottom drawer R&B song")


With the benefit of hindsight, they probably should have focused on getting a single and album out in Quarter 4 of 1999. Imagine if they'd got a move on and released Holler in late 1999 instead?

Evidently the group wasn't the girls' number one priority, and seemingly not Virgin's either, which seems surprising. You'd think they'd have focused on a group album over all solo projects, yet they decided to dedicate late 1999 & most of 2000 to Melanie C's Northern Star. That wasn't a good call for the future of the group, given that it was clear in 2000 that Melanie C didn't want to be there any more and was taking part purely out of obligation - but perhaps she still had some enthusiasm remaining in 1999. I wonder how things would have gone if the third group album had come out in 1999, and Northern Star had been held back a year?

Posted by: cripesdude 15th February 2018, 07:50 AM

QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ Feb 14 2018, 11:24 PM)

Posted by: missingyou 15th February 2018, 10:08 AM

I agree with that Jay. I think its generally accepted that late 1999 should have been Forever, the Brits in 2000 could have even been the final hurrah for the group then too.

I would have potentially gone with this structure....


September 1999 - Right Back At Ya or Woman as a single
November 1999 - Forever album release
December 1999 - Holler/Oxygen double a-side Christmas single
February 2000 - BRITs performance/award and final single (although i'm not sure what would be appropriate!!)

that would have been a relatively short era, but it would have definitely generated more success and would have accompanied the tour, then they could have all gone their seperate ways and focussed on solo material.

Posted by: Jay ☆ 15th February 2018, 10:29 AM

You're welcome, cripesdude! I like the idea of that schedule, missingyou. Would have at least felt like more of "an era" than Forever ultimately did.

----

By the way, this was Biffco's response on Twitter yesterday, regarding Woman and the other tracks from the August 1999 sessions:

Posted by: Michael Andrew 15th February 2018, 05:29 PM

Those dates are really enlightening. Such a shame the girls didn't get the 'Forever' era underway in 1999.

I'd have liked to see:

September 1999: 'Holler' / 'Let Love Lead The Way' single
December 1999: 'Oxygen' or 'Weekend Love' (cutting Mel B's rap) as a Christmas single
December 1999: 'Forever' album
February 2000: 'Pain Proof' single

And my preferred 'Forever' track list (for 1999) would be:

1. Holler
2. Right Back At Ya
3. Let Love Lead The Way
4. Pain Proof
5. Give You What You Want
6. Weekend Love
7. A Day In Your Life
8. If You Wanna Have Some Fun
9. Oxygen
10. Goodbye

Sorry, I don't love 'WOMAN'

Posted by: tommie 15th February 2018, 06:04 PM

WOMAN is pish xoxo

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn 15th February 2018, 07:54 PM

QUOTE(cripesdude @ Feb 15 2018, 07:50 AM)

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 21st February 2018, 10:35 PM

QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ Feb 14 2018, 11:24 PM)

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 21st February 2018, 10:40 PM

QUOTE(cripesdude @ Feb 15 2018, 07:50 AM)

Posted by: Spiceboy 21st February 2018, 11:34 PM

To be honest back then I think they were under the impression that the 5 girls would all have very lucrative solo careers, given how huge they were as a group and how well known they were individually. Look at The Beatles I'm sure they were under the misguided view that they would be similar to them 4 and have huge or decent careers away from the band. In reality only Geri and Melanie C ever really had real success and even then nothing on the level of success of solo Beatles.

At the time their careers were doing well though Mel B had a #1 and a good selling top 20 hit. Melanie C had a massive #3 hit as well as 2 more top 5's and 2 number 1s, and Northern Star was selling really well. Geri had 4 big solo hits 3 of them being number one and her album on the way to half a million in the UK. Emma and Victoria both had big #2 hit singles... i guess this was looking very positive for Virgin.

Posted by: Michael Andrew 22nd February 2018, 09:50 AM

QUOTE(Shia LeMuffQueef @ Feb 21 2018, 10:40 PM)

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 22nd February 2018, 04:01 PM

QUOTE(Spiceboy @ Feb 21 2018, 11:34 PM)

QUOTE(Michael Andrew @ Feb 22 2018, 09:50 AM)

Posted by: SamJudd 25th February 2018, 12:45 AM

I voted maybe as it is very hard to tell whether they could have carried on successfully after 'Forever', considering it was panned by the critics and press and labelled a flop, despite selling 4 Million worldwide off the back of 1 single, which isn't bad at all, but nobody was willing to give them a chance and plus they were far more interested in their solo projects anyway. It depends on what direction they would have taken, coz I doubt they would have went with the R&B direction again, as that didn't quite work out, or maybe if they updated and better adapted their sound too fit in with the modern climate of the early 00's, so who knows.

As for the 'Forever' campaign I do feel that they gave up way too soon, yeah they were getting mauled left right and centre, but honestly I do think that if more singles were released then the album could have shifted more copies, nowhere near on the level of the first 2, but considering it had already earned Platinum status within it's first 2 months and already sold 4 Million worldwide, then yeah another single could have helped this album re-enter the charts in the following year at least.

These were the planned follow up singles =
"If U Wanna Have Some Fun"
"Tell Me Why"
"Weekend Love"

Okay I very much doubt any of these would have topped the charts, but they could at least been top 5/10 hits for them. 'IUWHSF' would have been the better choice for the next single instead of 'TMW' in my opinion as the former has that more familiar Spice Girls sound to it and along with a funky music video with some energetic dance moves and in the early months of 2001, then I predict that this could have easily been a top 3 or top 5 at least.

Have 'TMW' released after this in a more polished or remixed form, like the radio edit version which is a million times better than it's album version and bring it out during the summer months of '01, and could give them another top 5 or top 10 hit.

As for 'WL', I'm not really that sure that this one could have worked, maybe if it was remixed and take out Mel B's rap, and maybe have another featured artist on it (not rapping), instead have another verse from the other singer and yeah maybe that might work and could manage to peak in the lower end of the top 10.

Well that's my opinion, tell me what do u guys think.

Posted by: Shia LeMuffQueef 26th February 2018, 09:54 PM

Those are all AWFUL. WHY do these Dark Child songs have plodding ballad style music, then a random rnb Mel B uptempo rap?!

Simon Fuller definitely had the better plan.

He said the plan was three pop albums, setting them ALL up for big solo careers. Forever damaged their brand a lot, and so they didn't have a strong starting point for solo, especially with all the negative press.

Posted by: Piers 1st April 2018, 04:54 AM

All these years later I find the continued disparagement of Forever to be quite odd. I prefer Spice and Spiceworld myself...but out of the new material (not counting Goodbye), Forever has at least five decent single contenders. I don't even include Let Love Lead the Way in that. The album's all perfectly solid material. Tell Me Why could've been a bit hit...in part because it's a good track...but also because of the natural controversy over it being about Geri. Beats me whether they would have fessed up to the song's real meaning at the time (they were often so unwilling to admit obvious tensions there)...but the speculation would have driven it. Jam n' Lewis were also still ruling the charts in that era...so If You Wanna Have Some Fun would have a very good shot with the right radio edit.

Anyway. Yes, I think they could have soldiered on after Forever...but they would have had to actually commit to the album and see it through first. Forever has the misfortune of being unceremoniously dumped into the world and immediately abandoned. I think the fanbase would be a lot kinder to it if it were just another step in a continuing musical evolution of the Spice Girls. There's a reason Madonna's fans don't obsess over Hard Candy as much as Spice fans obsess over Forever. Hard Candy was a phase...an era... the artist moved on. But...in abandoning Forever...that album never had an era. All three of the Spice albums got some brutal reviews at the time of release...but the nostalgia for Spice and Spiceworld allowed them to have a certain critical re-evaluation much later. Forever doesn't get to have that. While I'll admit Spice and Spiceworld are better...and certainly more unique...Forever deserved more than what it got. It may be the work of a group that was over it...but it really doesn't sound like it.

Posted by: Fulvio84 4th April 2018, 02:48 PM

I believe the whole Forever project could have been much more successfull if they really were on it and continuing promoting well, instead of 1 one single wasted away and few of them having litle tv apparences.
And even if goin on as a group with Forever not been as big as the ones before, I believe is totally normal for groups/artists to have up and downs, specially after a period of huge exposure.
there was and still is a lot of potential for them as a group to release music

Posted by: Spiceboy 4th April 2018, 04:03 PM

Forever the album could have been saved fairly easily tbh. They sold close to 300,000 with just one single release and a short bout of promotion. Further single releases through the year and a small tour would have easily pushed it over the half a million mark making it a successful album. Shame they just abandoned it.

Posted by: Blond 2.0 16th April 2018, 02:05 PM

Two more singles would've been great but they were bored to death and they all wanted to focus on their solo stuff and to be honest we got some good solo music from them .

Posted by: Queef of Peace 16th April 2018, 06:38 PM

Making of Holler y'all!!

Look at those gravity boots they gave VB and the half-constructed tunnel!

Posted by: Yet!!!!!! 1st December 2022, 11:07 PM

Still find this a v. interesting discussion/ thought exercise. This album burst the Spice bubble for sure, so they would never rebound to 1996-9 levels, but if they hsd gone back to pop, they could have stayed around Girls Aloud/ Sugababes popularity. But in doing so, ir would be tantamount to admitting that they were in a bubble, and also that 90s Geri was the main driver of their sound and success.

Posted by: Mr.X 2nd December 2022, 12:56 AM

Ultimately, Forever had one major flaw which made it flop. The lack of promo or interest from the girls.

Had they really tried, and committed, we would today be more graceful about the album. It's a solid album, and marks an evolution in sound which whilst quite a hard shift, it was clearly an evolution from their already well-thread r'n'b path.

Two more singles would have helped but they would have had to commit to it, properly. They should have gone on tour in Spring-Summer 2021 and then call it quits for a while and go solo.

Alas...

Posted by: Yet!!!!!! 2nd December 2022, 01:19 AM

But the album simply isn't good... How could they tour with material like Waste of Time or Oxygen?? And with such a massive shift in sound, how would that tour even look??

Posted by: -Jay- 2nd December 2022, 05:11 AM

QUOTE(Yet!!!!!! @ Dec 2 2022, 01:19 AM)

Posted by: Melancholia 2nd December 2022, 11:36 AM

Old topic, but no damn way could they have carried on. The group members themselves weren't in a good place and the public didn't like the new image and sound.

Posted by: Yet!!!!!! 2nd December 2022, 12:01 PM

That is true. It didn't comnect, even though Hollier is that BOP, their image was all over the place, and they were all burned out snd focused on solo projects, and lesving their best ideas for solo songs, except for Hollier, Pain Proof and W.O.M.A.N.

The more I think about it, their best chanve would have been thr 1999 pop album, with rockier and dancier songs, and thrn a more pop/rnb album campaign in 2000/1. Forever is boring, plodding, and generic; and that was the main problrm for a pop band known for its spice. It also slienated their fanbase, particularly their younger fans.

Posted by: Mr.X 2nd December 2022, 01:01 PM

I think genuinely people make too much of Forever not being 'pop enough' whereas the main issue here is that the whole press and industry seemed to be anti-Spice (including some of the Spices themselves). Had the climate been easier for them as a group, and had been given a proper chance, Forever would have been successful.

The level of vitriol they faced during 1999-2001 was insane, as proven by the various documentaries, specially the Channel 4 one. They were seen as horrible people, hated and unwelcome. Not because they did anything wrong other than they fired their manager and they had become too successful. The British press LOVES to bring women down, and they had a filled few years with the girls then. Forever was clearly a victim of that.

Had the album been given a chance outside of the anti-Spice movement of the time, where the girls did promo and a tour, the fans would have grown to like the album more. It was dumped, so it never had a chance to shine.

That's it for me. People can dress it as they wish, but it was a really great album with really great sound which was popular at the time. The press and the girls themselves killed it. No need to shit on the album just because it didnt reach the heights of Spice and Spiceworld.

A Tour in 2001 would have really brought the album and its songs to a new life and fans would have appreciated it more.

Posted by: J00prstar 2nd December 2022, 01:08 PM

Alternatively, take a break and work on solo endeavours until 2002, instead of recording music that was on the way out and sounded outdated before its time!

Posted by: schizo_spice 3rd December 2022, 11:22 AM

Forever was certainly not promoted enough and that is fact.

The drastic change in sound and image however I feel most certainly went against them too of course. People say Holler/LLLTW was a success but its sales were mediocre for being the big comeback single of the Spice Girls. Even today Holler trails behind on streaming.

So yeah promotion and lack of love from the girls most certainly contributed but so did the direction/quality of the material. I'll always feel Rodney Jerkins was the worst thing that ever happened to the Spice Girls.

Posted by: Piers 4th December 2022, 04:39 AM

I feel like after 1998, the group could have gone one of two routes.

They could have been like Janet Jackson; mostly working with the same collaborators over many years...and letting the artist and producers grow and change together. OR...they could have been like Madonna; entering each album era with new collaborators who help shape the image and sound of the latest reinvention. Judging by Forever...I think the group was more likely to go the Madonna route.

In an ideal world where the girls maintained interest in the group, I feel the interesting thing to do...would be to let Forever be their lone Darkchild album. Then...perhaps follow that up with a Rick Nowells produced album that's a bit rock (leaning toward the strengths of the Mels)...and a bit guitary pop (for Emma). Then...maybe the next album could be a tribute to 60s girl groups...something adjacent to Emma's Free Me. Then maybe the next album could have been an outright mature dance album. Something like that.

Part of the appeal of the group for me as a kid was the fact they could convincingly handle so many genres. Maybe after Spice and Spiceworld, they weren't going to cram so many flavors into one album anymore...but they could have shown their versatility through contrasting album eras. Could have made for a super cool Greatest Hits package eventually, I think.

Posted by: Mr.X 4th December 2022, 10:56 AM

QUOTE(Piers @ Dec 4 2022, 04:39 AM)

Posted by: Equinox8 5th December 2022, 12:18 AM

I voted 'no' because I think Forever was so poorly received in general; when stacking that on top of the "anti spice" movement that followed, they had no chance.

But the four remaining members are partly to blame. If they truly cared about that third record, they would have done more promotion. They relied on the spice brand to sell that record.

Clearly, continues to be their strategy. Evidenced by S25 and SW25.