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 Spice Girls - 'Forever', 2000 • 3rd Album |
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 May 24 2020, 07:56 PM
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#261
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 BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 6 September 2017
Posts: 11,797 User: 39,568 
   
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QUOTE(Piers @ May 24 2020, 08:53 PM)  Rodney Jerkins wistfully whispering "Darkchild 2000" over the track? 
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May 24 2020, 07:57 PM
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#262
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 BuzzJack Idol
Joined: 8 December 2010
Posts: 50,919 User: 12,472
  
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I enjoyed that! A shame about the second half of the album but the first six tracks were all solid! Even on first listen, there's a few of them I could see placing higher than 'Holler' in my album rank, which I wasn't expecting as I naturally assumed 'Holler' being lead single meant it represented the best.
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May 24 2020, 08:11 PM
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#263
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,406 User: 3,217
      
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QUOTE(Piers @ May 24 2020, 08:35 PM) It was always interesting to me that Mel C loved [Time Goes By] so much. Even when she was completely over being in the group, she still wanted this thing to be a single...and later admitted to not liking the incomparably superior If You Wanna Have Some Fun. Oh my! :| Melanie has extremely questionable taste at times QUOTE(Liam.k. @ May 24 2020, 08:38 PM) Is it just me or is there quite a lot of Victoria vocals on this album? Obviously the lines are shared between four members instead of five now, but she feels so much more prominent than any of the Spice Girls singles prior to this. Victoria definitely has a strong presence throughout Forever! I think she pushed herself vocally, in a good way, she has some lovely moments on various tracks. While she's the first to admit she wasn't the strongest singer in the group, I think she has a nice tone and I think she should be quite proud of her contribution to this album (not that 'Forever' has probably crossed her mind in years )QUOTE(Piers @ May 24 2020, 08:53 PM) Oh gosh. Can you imagine...that lovely chorus overlapped with a ton of unnecessary ad-libs...and Rodney Jerkins wistfully whispering "Darkchild 2000" over the track?  That would have been so funny, but awful  I'm glad they had the sense not to touch an established single!QUOTE(Liam.k. @ May 24 2020, 08:57 PM) I enjoyed that! A shame about the second half of the album but the first six tracks were all solid! Even on first listen, there's a few of them I could see placing higher than 'Holler' in my album rank, which I wasn't expecting as I naturally assumed 'Holler' being lead single meant it represented the best. Which would of course have been the correct assumption to make  I'm glad you enjoyed listening to it! Hopefully you'll find a moment to check out their first two classic albums. Spiceworld is full of great pop moments, I'd say it's their most accessible album. Spice may surprise you with some of the directions certain tracks go in! QUOTE(Spiceboy @ May 24 2020, 08:45 PM) I never noticed this! Well spotted... who sings which verse? I'm guessing Victoria is the one after the first chorus? That's right! Melanie C There will come a time I know I'm gonna need Someone I can trust, someone who'll fight for me That's the way I love Emma This is my time to work things out What i want from this life There will be someone out there for me That's the way I love Victoria Even when we're so far apart I still feel you in my heart 'Cos you've given me the greatest gift of all That's the way I love Mel B The way I love ain't easy But could it ever be for me The situation seems so insane It's all about feeling without insecurities That's the way I love |
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May 24 2020, 08:19 PM
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#264
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,406 User: 3,217
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That was great fun once again, thanks everyone for listening and commenting along!
 I think it's a fine album and didn't deserve the mostly bad reviews and bad reception it received at the time of its release. There's some solid tracks in there, and even on the less good ones they at least give us some of their greatest vocals. My main criticism of the album, as Piers has touched upon, is the extreme overuse of ad-libs. I don't think I've ever heard another album that is packed with as many ad-libs as can be heard on Forever! Sometimes less is more. I feel like it works on some tracks, like Holler and Let Love Lead the Way, but on others it crosses the line of being unnecessary.
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May 24 2020, 08:23 PM
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#265
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BuzzJack Idol
Joined: 8 December 2010
Posts: 50,919 User: 12,472
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QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ May 24 2020, 09:11 PM) Which would of course have been the correct assumption to make I'm glad you enjoyed listening to it! Hopefully you'll find a moment to check out their first two classic albums. Spiceworld is full of great pop moments, I'd say it's their most accessible album. Spice may surprise you with some of the directions certain tracks go in! That's right! It is a decent track itself, but it felt like the following tracks took the R&B sound and 'Spiced' it up with their classic pop hooks and personality. I'll definitely give their first two albums a listen, already intrigued about the hint towards their debut!
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May 24 2020, 08:27 PM
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#266
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 BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 3 February 2018
Posts: 2,041 User: 64,815
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QUOTE(Liam.k. @ May 24 2020, 09:23 PM) It is a decent track itself, but it felt like the following tracks took the R&B sound and 'Spiced' it up with their classic pop hooks and personality. I'll definitely give their first two albums a listen, already intrigued about the hint towards their debut!Have you never heard the first and second albums before? If so, I am very envious. I'd love to relive those albums for the first time again 
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May 24 2020, 08:30 PM
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#267
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BuzzJack Idol
Joined: 8 December 2010
Posts: 50,919 User: 12,472
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QUOTE(Spice Girls Net @ May 24 2020, 09:27 PM) Have you never heard the first and second albums before? If so, I am very envious. I'd love to relive those albums for the first time again Not yet, no!  I've of course heard all their singles as well as 'Never Give Up on the Good Times' (which is fantastic) but never checked out their albums for some reason!
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May 24 2020, 08:38 PM
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#268
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 25 March 2018
Posts: 393 User: 69,521
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QUOTE(Jay ☆ @ May 24 2020, 02:19 PM) That was great fun once again, thanks everyone for listening and commenting along! My main criticism of the album, as Piers has touched upon, is the extreme overuse of ad-libs. I don't think I've ever heard another album that is packed with as many ad-libs as can be heard on Forever! Sometimes less is more. I feel like it works on some tracks, like Holler and Let Love Lead the Way, but on others it crosses the line of being unnecessary.Yeah. The ad-libs are perfection on Holler. I think they're mostly perfection on Tell Me Why and Let Lead the Way (except for the Mel B ad-libs on the album version of the latter). But I think they're overdone on tracks 4-8...though I do like most of those songs overall. I think Darkchild was used to working with r'n'b acts who did a lot of ad-libbing...and it didn't come as naturally for the girls. I think Emma equips herself the best. But Victoria in particular sometimes sounds awkward to me...just repeating little phrases. If I had the ability to audio edit the album, I feel like I'd trim some ad-libs out here and there. The Darkchild 2000 stuff also becomes practically parody after a while for me. I thought it sounded cool on Holler...I think *some* of it is cute on Get Down With Me (hey Scary, ya ready?). But he overstays his welcome, and it was absurd when he showed up in Weekend Love. What's also odd is Rodney Jerkins did interviews talking about how he wanted to do songs with the group that would play well live. Yet...I've no clue how they would have done Get Down With Me or Wasting My Time live...as both are so heavy on Emma doing a solo...overlapped with Emma doing ad-libs...or a Mel C solo...overlapped with Mel C ad-libs. |
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May 24 2020, 08:40 PM
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#269
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 16 November 2009
Posts: 7,586 User: 9,988
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I cant imagine having not heard Spice and Spiceworld they were so ingrained in my brain as a child I cant imagine life not having those songs in it.
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May 24 2020, 09:39 PM
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#270
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,071 User: 39,587
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IM SORRY IM LATE AGAIN TO THE PARTY
 You can blame Boris on this one, as been talking with family from Portugal as tehy are so aghast about this weekends' political movements. Urgh the UK is such a mess right now.But as usual, I bopped on my own  Thank you so making this happen, it was great to listen to the album again all the way through - hadnt done it in a long while and WHAT A GREAT EXPERIENCE  Here is my take: 1. Holler. Stunning. This is Top5 Spice for me. I know many people didnt really get into it and I can appreciate why. But it is a really gorgeous song, excellently produced and sang. Wild to think this was the first time that the Spice Girls ever released a song with a male voice all over it (not counting Luther Van Dross as that was a live cover). For me, it was a really special moment, that showed growthn and versatility to the band, and artistically it elevated them to new, different heights from what we were used to. The only thing I would change from that era was the styling. The leather look didnt quite suit them, imo, and outside of the video and MTV performance, they used really bland costumes and jeans. A shame, as if they had carried on with the type of style they had earlier in the year (specially Brits), it would have looked amazing! 2. Tell Me Why. Wow. If Holler bangs the door open to a new style, Tell Me Why DOUBLES DOWN on that transformation. It's an amazing song, really clever and with great production. They all sound heavenly and damn, Victoria's opening verse is just When she gets it right, she really nails it in her own style. Here, she shines. So does Mel B. Oh gosh, so does Emma. AND MEL C! The ad libs are amazing and that breakdown is  This is really growing on me, you know?! Not that it didnt before, but listening it to it now is giving me good feels  One thing: I never thought this is about Geri. I know it reads like it, but it never rang true to me. More like a failed love relationship. 3. Let Love Lead The Way LOVE I've always liked this song, loved even. But always thought it wasnt one of their greatest ballads. It always felt somewhat lesser than its peers. No more. Last year's performance on tour was GORGEOUS. I had feels throughout it and Bunton crying on two of the shows I went during it, was a MOMENT. For me, this really stood the test of time and with time, I have grown to appreciate it even more. I think Emma and Mel C both are incredible here. When both hit them notes live, it really shone bright. Emma's 'I know, I know, I know' is just heaven, and her BIG NOTE is I hope they always do it live on tour, they really sell it well. Geri was surprisingly good on this as well and you could tell she really loves it. It was a bit criminal to have such a bad video to this though. The song really deserved better. Their styling was terrible (apart from Bunton who looked gorgeous), and the concept of the elements didnt work like it did in Holler. 4. Right Back At Ya. For me, the song that should have been a single before Holler, in it's pop/funk version. Don't get me wrong, I like this r'n'b version. It's cute, but it doesnt do much for me, as it just kind of plods along. Mel B's rap is great and they all sound gorgeous on it. But it just sort of happens without much funfair, which is funny because the message is the opposite sentiment  I do like the lyrics though. They were really defiant and I like it, taking ownership of what they had achieved and their presence in the pop cannon. They should have kept the dance breakdown from the Christmas tour on it! Now THAT would have been cool. 5. Get Down With Me. This is such a great vibe. You can't help but bop along. Remove the man's voice and position it somewhere else in the album (towards the end, after If You Wanna Have Some Fun?) and it would have been better, I think. Gosh they sound heavenly on this, don't they?! Victoria also kills it here, she sound hungry for the spotlight here. I like it. Emma carries this song (as usual). Her ad libs are also A VIBE! The breakdown feels somewhat both needed at this moment, but also kind of unecessary, specially with the guy's voice there. 6. Wasting My Time.  I know people love to hate this song, but I genuinely love it. The beginning kind of sounds a bit like 2-Pac's California and I AM HERE FOR IT It's both really cleverly written and well performed. Emma's verse is  and Victoria also shines here. There is maybe too much Mel C on it, which is really prominent, specially when you remember that Mel B isn't on this at all. Get Mel B on the chorus at least, and a few lines, and the song would have been perfect. 7. Weekend Love You know, I always liked this. I think it is a cute, 4th single material type of track. Maybe with a single mix that kicks it up a notch, it would have been quite special. It was probably their most radio-friendly track on the album apart from Holler and LLLTW. Emma's parts are just Victoria's ad libs also really shine here! Probably her best ad libs outside of Holler. All of them sound incredible here, to be honest. Lyrically it is one of their best, imo. Mel B's rap is hilarious though. It's quite naff as it is so different from the rest of the track and it is kind of jarring. But I quite like it. 8. Time Goes By. Ok here we go. This is one of my least favourite Spice tracks, ever. From the very beginning, it's just too slow and boring, I think. In a way, it was a very different way of doing ballads for them. I get it, and the genre is quite common. Maybe that is my issue with it, it just lacks a bit of personality and you could see any other group singing this. They all sound incredible here though. All of them. Though Mel C's really high pitch 'wiiiiiiiiiil' kind of grains on me lol it feels a bit stretched, which is weird cos you know she could hit that note but maybe she was having a bad day  9. If You Wanna Have Some Fun YAY LETS PARTY This was soooo screaming to be a single. It's gorgeous and funky, and it would have gone down really well in February/March of 2001. I always imagined it with a shorter mix and a video set in a club. A shame they never sang it live. I would have loved that and personally, I think it would have gone really well after Never Give Up On The Good Times last year on tour. IMAGINE one day they would surprise us with a rendition of it Mel B's breakdown is GORGEOUS! Emma eats this whole, in one go. It's kind of her song and she backs pretty much every one of them, is teh most prominent in the chorus and those AD LIBS at the end OK they go on for too long but DAMN IT THEY ARE GREAT!! GET IT BUNTON, TAKE YOUR TIME, SPOIL US AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT! DANCE YOUR ASS OFF! YEAH IM HAVING FUN THANKS FOR ASKING ok maybe that is lowkey enough now YES IM STILL HAVING FUN GOD DAMN IT!10. Oxygen. OK this is nice. The drop still kind of ruins it, but whatever. It's still not amazing, but it's no Time Goes By lol You can tell they are all into it. I remember reading somewhere that for this track, the producers asked the girls to each give their own interpretation of love for their own verses, and yuo can tell. It's a very 'group' song with a lot of individuality in it and they do it really well. In that regards, it is a very 'them' song. It just isn't produced well, I think. Good ideas, well written and expertly well sang, but boring beats... 11. Goodbye WOW. What a song. What a way to end the album. This song will forever be special because of the context in which it was released. But also because it is TOP TIER Spice. It's up there with their best lyrically, vocally and production wise. I was so glad they continued with Matt and Biff after Geri left. They really got the group. Mel B's 'Look for the rainbow in every storm' might just be the best lyric they've ever written. A stunning moment. Last year, they really brought a new quality to it, I think. Having Geri singing Victoria's line was outstanding (and unexpectely good), but Victoria really made her verse her own. Really, it is almost iconic. Gorgeous outro as well. What a MOMENT in pop culture this song is, when you think of it. Just gorgeous. And that video Overall A fantastic album, that deserved much better than it got from everyone. It isnt perfect, but it's a bloody great ride, with amazing songs that still sound fresh today. And it is also great fun! |
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May 24 2020, 09:46 PM
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#271
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 25 March 2018
Posts: 393 User: 69,521
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I know most wish some of the pop tracks could have been included...and while I really like most of the leaked pop tracks, I'm not sure the two approaches could have gelled together.
The girls' solo works managed to have many collaborators...without it seeming mismatched. But in the case of the Forever material, I flat-out don't know if I can imagine an album with Tell Me Why...alongside Pain Proof and the pop version of Right Back At Ya. To me...they just sound like two different groups. The leaked Eliot Kennedy songs have a higher energy...a different group sound. Darkchild's material to me sounds like it belongs to a group about ten years older. I think there's a reason Goodbye sounds so out of place on the album. Anyone think the pop material actually could have existed with Darkchild's stuff? I guess there's a few things they could have done. Like...start with the Darkchild stuff and let the album go progressively poppier (with the Jam n' Lewis material serving as a bridge) until it reached Goodbye? Perhaps a Sugar n' Spice double album with two different sounds? I'm not sure. I kinda think the Darkchild material was so different in sound that it forced them to pick a direction rather than include it all. |
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May 24 2020, 11:23 PM
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#272
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 6 September 2017
Posts: 11,797 User: 39,568
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QUOTE(Liam.k. @ May 24 2020, 09:30 PM) Not yet, no! I've of course heard all their singles as well as 'Never Give Up on the Good Times' (which is fantastic) but never checked out their albums for some reason!Omg you're in for a treat I'm quite jealous I'd love to relive my first time listening to the albums
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May 25 2020, 09:16 AM
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#273
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,071 User: 39,587
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QUOTE(Piers @ May 24 2020, 08:38 PM) Yeah. The ad-libs are perfection on Holler. I think they're mostly perfection on Tell Me Why and Let Lead the Way (except for the Mel B ad-libs on the album version of the latter). But I think they're overdone on tracks 4-8...though I do like most of those songs overall. I think Darkchild was used to working with r'n'b acts who did a lot of ad-libbing...and it didn't come as naturally for the girls. I think Emma equips herself the best. But Victoria in particular sometimes sounds awkward to me...just repeating little phrases. If I had the ability to audio edit the album, I feel like I'd trim some ad-libs out here and there. The Darkchild 2000 stuff also becomes practically parody after a while for me. I thought it sounded cool on Holler...I think *some* of it is cute on Get Down With Me (hey Scary, ya ready?). But he overstays his welcome, and it was absurd when he showed up in Weekend Love. What's also odd is Rodney Jerkins did interviews talking about how he wanted to do songs with the group that would play well live. Yet...I've no clue how they would have done Get Down With Me or Wasting My Time live...as both are so heavy on Emma doing a solo...overlapped with Emma doing ad-libs...or a Mel C solo...overlapped with Mel C ad-libs. I understand and kind of agree that they do overdo it on the ad libs. They, as a group, were all very keen on showing how much they could sing during that era. It was part of their promo as well, the whole 'we all gave it our best singing, we've grown so much vocally etc'. But yeah, that and the male voices kind of give it a bit of a weird taste throughout ah |
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Jul 11 2020, 09:34 PM
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#274
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,406 User: 3,217
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QUOTE(Piers @ May 9 2020, 03:46 AM) My favorite shoot of them from the Forever era came from a magazine, I believe. It's been so long, I can't remember which magazine. But someone in here will know. Mels B and C have long hair. Emma's wearing shades. Victoria's in a white lace dress. I think they were against a kinda beige background. To me... it's the photoshoot from that time that best captures the vibe of Forever. Maybe a decent album cover could be pulled from those images? I finally got around to having a go at making artwork using this photoshoot! Admittedly my photoshop skills are limited, but nevertheless I quite like the outcome of these: With Spice Girls - Forever logo/font:  With just the Spice Girls logo (with the idea being that the 'Forever' title could run down the side of the CD, underneath the visible plastic tray)  Textless (Spice Girls - Forever could be on a hype sticker, or down the side of the CD):  JosephStyles has kindly made these mock ups, to show how they would look as CDs - I love these   
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Jul 11 2020, 10:31 PM
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#275
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 3 February 2018
Posts: 2,041 User: 64,815
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Love these, Jay.
Any shoot would have been better than the one we got for the album lol |
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Jul 13 2020, 04:56 PM
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#276
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,406 User: 3,217
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QUOTE(Spice Girls Net @ Jul 11 2020, 11:31 PM) Love these, Jay. Any shoot would have been better than the one we got for the album lol Agreed  They did a couple of better photoshoots that took place quite close to the album’s release, so it was too late by then. I’m still curious about what the girls themselves think of the Forever album cover and if they actually like it. Then again I’m not sure whether they’ve ever commented on any of their artwork - I’d find that interesting!The vinyl is supposedly coming in 4 months time, but there’s still no UK preorder. I’m kind of dreading that original artwork in 12” size, but also kind of amused at the thought of it lol. |
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Jul 13 2020, 07:20 PM
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#277
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,071 User: 39,587
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Honestly I cannot BARE the thought of having that picture and font in large print...
I kind of got too busy to even bother writing taht open letter to them. Might revisit it soon. |
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Jul 15 2020, 10:16 AM
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#278
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 16 November 2009
Posts: 7,586 User: 9,988
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Imagine walking in HMV and seeing the Forever artwork on the vinyl stand, it is going to look so bad.
If they did an exclusive vinyl cover with a different photo that would surely help it sell to collectors. |
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Jul 15 2020, 12:58 PM
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#279
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 3 February 2018
Posts: 2,041 User: 64,815
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I wonder if they changed the cover and went with a different 2000 photographer and shoot or just another image from the Terry Richardson one?
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Sep 21 2020, 11:26 PM
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#280
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,406 User: 3,217
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It was nice to see a first time listener of Spice Girls reacting to Forever, and he really appreciated it!
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