BuzzJack
Entertainment Discussion

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register | Help )

> -
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Do music charts still have a place?
Track this topic - Email this topic - Print this topic - Download this topic - Subscribe to this forum
MollyJanet
post Feb 22 2021, 12:31 PM
Post #1
New Entry
*
Group: Members
Posts: 1
Member No.: 124,536
Joined: 22-February 21
   No Gallery Pics
 


I've grown up in the UK during a time when we had a weekly chart rundown of the Top 40 singles and a weekly TV show called 'Top of the Pops'. Saturday mornings used to have it's own chart show with the latest videos. Over the years there seems to be have been quite a decline in both, not to say they don't exist at all now but in a much less noticeable format or presence.

There used to be such a fuss made about what position a song was at and who was going to make the number 1 slot that week, and the Christmas number 1 was a highly contested spot (apparently). This was coupled with both single and album sales in their respective charts. So my question is, are the charts still relevant and do they have any influence anymore?

Personally I think they don't so much because of the way people now listen to music through streaming and downloads. I may be completely wrong on that but I don't see people in their droves flocking to the local music store to buy the latest album or single by their favorite artisit. I used to love going through all the vinyl albums and still do in the retro stores but it seems to more of a nostalgic trip now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
T Boy
post Feb 22 2021, 06:51 PM
Post #2
Radical Pink Troll
*******
Group: Artist Mod
Posts: 23,068
Member No.: 177
Joined: 11-March 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


Theyíre not really relevant to me anymore. Iím not interested in most of what is in the top 40 these days and sometimes I think itís my age and everyone warned me that would happen and perhaps it is in a way. But I work with teenagers every day and Iím not sure the charts are relevant to them either. They donít know whoís no.1 and they donít seem interested in many artists. The ones who are a lot more interested in artists tend to be into retro music. Iíve had so many conversations with them about the best songs by Queen, Oasis or the Killers.

I think perhaps the absence of a show like Top Of The Pops or a Saturday morning kids show has lessened the interest of young people in the charts. When I was younger not that many people listened to the top 40 but everyone knew who was no.1 because we all watched TOTP on a Friday night.

Iím also not sure what charts are supposed to represent with added streaming. Playlists and lazy listening seems to have taken over and it upsets me that many posters on here just accept this. I get the feeling the charts donít fully represent whatís popular anymore.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TheSnake
post Feb 22 2021, 11:16 PM
Post #3
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 15,040
Member No.: 23,308
Joined: 24-May 16
   No Gallery Pics
 


Can a moderator please move this thread to UK Charts please? smile.gif

The charts still mean something I think but yes all the new chart rules since about 2015 make it a bit less clear cut as it used to be I think.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sour Candy
post Feb 23 2021, 09:36 AM
Post #4
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Artist Mod
Posts: 15,577
Member No.: 10,275
Joined: 22-December 09
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(T Boy @ Feb 22 2021, 08:51 PM) *
I get the feeling the charts donít fully represent whatís popular anymore.


I think they represent what's popular BETTER than before as songs don't have a shelf life any more? Anything from Fleetwood Mac to hyperpop can chart now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MangÝ
post Feb 23 2021, 10:18 AM
Post #5
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 13,671
Member No.: 151
Joined: 10-March 06
 


I still follow the charts but I'd say they're less relevant than ever before, not just to me but to the general public. In the days when people went out to buy music physically they'd be much more invested in the charts but now that people stream music they care less about what's number one or top ten or top forty or whatever. The fact that there are less music shows on TV has also contributed to this - I used to love watching TOTP or CD:UK or Live & Kicking or The Chart Show, but now we have nothing like that. I really miss TOTP in particular - imagine a show that millions of people tuned into every week with performances from the biggest chart stars and which ran down the entire top forty. No wonder people aren't interested in the charts any more. Or maybe it's the other way round, it's because people aren't interested in the chart that shows like TOTP were failing, I don't know?

I've just re-read what I've written and I've basically just paraphrased the first two posts laugh.gif but yeah the charts are much less relevant than they ever were. We still need the charts though, they still measure and represent *something*, it's just hard to fully identify what that something is.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JulianT
post Feb 23 2021, 10:28 AM
Post #6
BuzzJack Enthusiast
****
Group: Members
Posts: 957
Member No.: 8,705
Joined: 20-April 09
   No Gallery Pics
 


I think the charts do still have a place but inevitably they aren't as big a deal as they once were. If you look at the consumption of the songs near the top of the chart they only represent a tiny proportion of overall consumption. In the past they represented a much bigger proportion, but that's largely because what you could buy and listen to was much more restricted. Top of the Pops was popular because you needed to watch it to be introduced to the new acts, particularly if you wanted to see them and not just hear them on the radio.

I think measuring streaming is not without its problems but overall the fact that people really need to want to listen to your song for it to do well does actually make the charts more rather than less representative. I agree with Sour Candy that the lack of shelf life also helps. At the same time there's so much being listened to that isn't making the charts and so many people who aren't even hearing or caring what's in the charts but that's no bad thing really - that's just a symptom of better technology and more choice.

I agree some good things have been lost compared to, say, 30 years ago, but overall I would still rather be alive today.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AcerBen
post Feb 23 2021, 10:48 AM
Post #7
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,145
Member No.: 3,429
Joined: 18-May 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


People have been having this debate for 20 odd years now. The general public is less interested in the drama of the weekly chart, but there's still some awareness of what's doing well by those who are interested in new music. TOTP might no longer be on, but the various radio chart shows probably get about 5 million, and most people who listen to Radio 1 or Capital on a daily basis would probably be able to have a decent stab at telling you who is currently high in the charts.

And it's still a useful tool to the music industry and the artists. So it still has a place.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bjork
post Feb 23 2021, 10:49 AM
Post #8
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 19,566
Member No.: 22,665
Joined: 13-November 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


but is streaming to blame? I think it's ages since people really cared and
the general lack of interest certainly predates streaming
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
awardinary
post Feb 23 2021, 10:53 AM
Post #9
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 10,025
Member No.: 21,587
Joined: 8-February 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


On a completely unrelated matter, Bjork, can you explain why Radiohead are in your signature.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
coi
post Feb 23 2021, 10:56 AM
Post #10
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Chart Mod
Posts: 7,151
Member No.: 73,240
Joined: 23-June 18
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(awardinary @ Feb 23 2021, 10:53 AM) *
On a completely unrelated matter, Bjork, can you explain why Radiohead are in your signature.

I don't know, but it's a great choice! wub.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Houdini
post Feb 23 2021, 11:04 AM
Post #11
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 6,141
Member No.: 21,725
Joined: 4-April 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


The individual components of the charts are interesting but mixing sales and streaming together on the main chart as if they are the exact same thing is where the problems start. When you see the sales report apart from a few exceptions all you'll see is something like "Song x is at number 6 (32,417 sales)" and of course not all 32,417 sales would be paid for but they don't tell you how much of that is streaming. Even when they do give streaming figures they'll more often than not just give the number of chart sales that it equated to which means you would still have to rack your brain to work out how often a song was played during the week instead of breaking down the raw figures for each format that the song is on.

Throwing ACR into the mix is what has really fucked the charts up the most imo, it's made things even more complicated than they already were and something that is supposed to be for fun or a hobby shouldn't be complicated. It used to be fun years ago to see which artists were releasing new music at the same time and trying to outdo one another in the chart but it feels like we don't get to see that anymore.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bjork
post Feb 23 2021, 11:09 AM
Post #12
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 19,566
Member No.: 22,665
Joined: 13-November 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(awardinary @ Feb 23 2021, 11:53 AM) *
On a completely unrelated matter, Bjork, can you explain why Radiohead are in your signature.


hahaha just love the song
the other weekend I taught myself how to play it on guitar, learnt the lyrics,
so I found a new appreciation for the song <3
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vibe
post Feb 23 2021, 11:27 AM
Post #13
BuzzJack Platinum Member
******
Group: Members
Posts: 6,274
Member No.: 11,763
Joined: 31-August 10
   No Gallery Pics
 


I work in a school and the younger generation , my nieces / nephews could not care less what is in the charts. They never speak about it either , thye get to learn the songs that are rinsed on radio.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chartjack2
post Feb 23 2021, 11:41 AM
Post #14
BuzzJack Climber
**
Group: Members
Posts: 130
Member No.: 21,383
Joined: 19-November 14
   No Gallery Pics
 


The charts will always ďexistĒ because people will always consume music in some format. Itís not their job to matter, itís their job to reflect that public consumption as objectively as possible.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
No Sleeep
post Feb 23 2021, 11:57 AM
Post #15
BuzzJack Enthusiast
****
Group: Members
Posts: 1,136
Member No.: 22,008
Joined: 22-June 15
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Houdini @ Feb 23 2021, 11:04 AM) *
The individual components of the charts are interesting but mixing sales and streaming together on the main chart as if they are the exact same thing is where the problems start. When you see the sales report apart from a few exceptions all you'll see is something like "Song x is at number 6 (32,417 sales)" and of course not all 32,417 sales would be paid for but they don't tell you how much of that is streaming. Even when they do give streaming figures they'll more often than not just give the number of chart sales that it equated to which means you would still have to rack your brain to work out how often a song was played during the week instead of breaking down the raw figures for each format that the song is on.

Throwing ACR into the mix is what has really fucked the charts up the most imo, it's made things even more complicated than they already were and something that is supposed to be for fun or a hobby shouldn't be complicated. It used to be fun years ago to see which artists were releasing new music at the same time and trying to outdo one another in the chart but it feels like we don't get to see that anymore.


Yeah, it’s a difficult one. No amount of streams are the same as one sale, and continuing to call them “sales” is a bit ridiculous and kind of disrespectful to people who actually sold millions. It is a different era but the “sales” we’re seeing now with so many songs going multi-platinum when you had huge 00s hits like Toxic and Hung Up that barely scraped platinum, it’s not a great representation.


This post has been edited by No Sleeep: Feb 23 2021, 12:00 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tawdry Hepburn
post Feb 23 2021, 12:46 PM
Post #16
I'll find your lips in the street lights
********
Group: Artist Mod
Posts: 73,328
Member No.: 51
Joined: 7-March 06
 


I feel like the only time most people in terms of the wider public care or acknowledge the charts is when a chart record/achievement gets widely reported, for example something like Captain Tom getting the #1 on his 100th birthday or when Wham! and Mariah recently got the #1 after so many years.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AcerBen
post Feb 23 2021, 12:54 PM
Post #17
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,145
Member No.: 3,429
Joined: 18-May 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Bjork @ Feb 23 2021, 10:49 AM) *
but is streaming to blame? I think it's ages since people really cared and
the general lack of interest certainly predates streaming


I think it's had an impact on long-term chart-watchers, and some who were getting to that crossover age where they stop enjoying chart music anyway, but I don't think it's had a huge impact on the wider public. They're not interested in the technical details of how the chart works. Most wouldn't even be able to tell you the difference between the Radio 1 chart and the Big Top 40.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AcerBen
post Feb 23 2021, 12:55 PM
Post #18
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,145
Member No.: 3,429
Joined: 18-May 07
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Feb 23 2021, 12:46 PM) *
I feel like the only time most people in terms of the wider public care or acknowledge the charts is when a chart record/achievement gets widely reported, for example something like Captain Tom getting the #1 on his 100th birthday or when Wham! and Mariah recently got the #1 after so many years.


I agree, but that isn't something that's only happened recently.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
T Boy
post Feb 23 2021, 06:24 PM
Post #19
Radical Pink Troll
*******
Group: Artist Mod
Posts: 23,068
Member No.: 177
Joined: 11-March 06
   No Gallery Pics
 


QUOTE(Sour Candy @ Feb 23 2021, 09:36 AM) *
I think they represent what's popular BETTER than before as songs don't have a shelf life any more? Anything from Fleetwood Mac to hyperpop can chart now.


I disagree. I think itís affected by passive listening to playlists more than anyone will admit but even regardless, itís only representing a certain demographic. I donít stream much music, I listen to CDs, vinyl, etc. so my consumption isnít fairly represented and Iím not the only person whoíll be doing this. Plus with rules like ACR and the three track rule, the charts are distorted even this way. Most people donít know why long running top 10 hits suddenly drop to low end top 30 after 10 weeks.

When the chart was sales only, everything was pretty fair game. Iím not asking for streaming to go now itís here but it has made the chart less interesting and actually less important.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JosephStyles
post Feb 23 2021, 06:41 PM
Post #20
i need you the most
********
Group: Admin.
Posts: 88,236
Member No.: 13,530
Joined: 19-April 11
 


The younger generation definitely get more of a say nowadays and, to be fair, they were the ones who missed out before. Younger people have less disposable income to spend on music - I know I didn't buy as much as I'd have loved to when I was young because my pocket money could only get me so many CDs / downloads. I don't think the charts have ever been a completely level playing field across all age groups and there's little that can be done to change that.

Music charts definitely have a place though the general public interest is lower than it used to be. That doesn't mean there's no interest at all and I don't believe streaming has anything to do with it (it's been the case at least since I started following the charts closely, which was ~2011). That said, stan Twitter loves following the charts and they even seem clued up on ACR rules! I don't think ACR is offputting to anyone who isn't a close chart follower - the average Joe won't know what it is and probably won't have been following closely enough in the first place to notice it was hanging around the top 10 for weeks on end. If they wanted to know, there are explanations in the OCC chart rules.

Passive listening on playlists has a big impact on the chart but there's always been outside factors that can help or hinder songs. Stock in shops, differing formats (some songs would have been hindered by one CD format when others had two, for example), price reductions (notably seen in the 59p iTunes reductions) and radio playlists are big factors that influenced the sales-only charts. Of course you'd still have to convince someone to part with their cash for a song and that's why a sale will always count for more than a stream, but there's clearly something to be said for a song that is able to get millions of streams every week - that's not entirely "passive playlists"!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post


2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:


 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 5th March 2021 - 11:51 PM