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 The lovely discussion of all things EU and/or Brexit, Part IV |
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 Dec 10 2018, 08:31 PM
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#561
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639 
        
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Corbyn is the answer. He will make a United Socialist States of Europe.
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Dec 10 2018, 09:24 PM
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#562
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
    
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Dec 10 2018, 07:50 PM)  What an absolute joke, I am not surprised she cancelled the deal as if this deal gets voted down it's essentially curtains for not only May but the Tory party as well. I can only assume she is going to use the time to try and appease the Tory rebels to stick by her plan and promise the stand down as leader whilst trying to get a new deal (which is not going to happen). We are totally heading to a STAY vs THE DEAL referendum aren't we, only for this idea of Brexit to continue for generations to come. And before Michael starts, no Corbyn is not the answer. Quotes the EU to get one over May thinking he's clever, then mentions he can negotiate a better deal. What an utter melon, no chance I want that man running the country. We are in the unfortunate position of having both the worst PM and worst leader of the opposition of my lifetime. |
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Dec 10 2018, 09:31 PM
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#563
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 Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
 
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QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 10 2018, 09:31 PM) Corbyn is the answer. He will make a United Socialist States of Europe. Yeah, because the last one of those in Europe was a bloody great success... |
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Dec 10 2018, 09:33 PM
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#564
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 10 2018, 09:24 PM) We are in the unfortunate position of having both the worst PM and worst leader of the opposition of my lifetime. And what is wrong with Corbyn? Is it because he is the first one since Attlee who isn't a neoliberal stooge? |
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Dec 10 2018, 10:00 PM
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#565
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 10 2018, 09:33 PM) And what is wrong with Corbyn? Is it because he is the first one since Attlee who isn't a neoliberal stooge? That's not a phrase many people have used to describe Michael Foot. He has failed to provide any significant opposition to the government on the most important issue facing the country. And, of course, we should never forget that his response to the referendum result was that Article 50 should be triggered immediately. |
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Dec 10 2018, 10:01 PM
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#566
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,053 User: 3,474
  
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Corbyn is an unmitigated disaster. I like some of the economic ideas but I can’t marry up his desire to build a stronger economy and his cheer leading for Brexit
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Dec 10 2018, 10:06 PM
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#567
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 is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
Posts: 11,385 User: 21,161
  
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Corbyn and most of labour are the political equivalents of chocolate teapots. The tories are collapsing. Thank f*** for the SNP x
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Dec 10 2018, 10:21 PM
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#568
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,114 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Dec 10 2018, 02:48 PM) The vote was actually supposed to be tomorrow, so this is within 36 hours of the proposed vote. That '...chaos with Ed Miliband' sounds quite preferable now, doesn't it?  I swear I retweet that every week nearly  Like a fine wine it grows better with age!!
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Dec 10 2018, 11:43 PM
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#569
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 WINTER IS COMING
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 45,594 User: 88
   
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QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 10 2018, 09:33 PM) And what is wrong with Corbyn? Is it because he is the first one since Attlee who isn't a neoliberal stooge? Because he is the biggest single reason why Labour are not sticking the foot in to the Tories. There is an open goal here right now and he is not scoring. Sooner or later the penny is going to drop. Too many politicians with personal ideologies at heart, this is damaging the country. I did find May’s excuses for thre Pound dropping funny though. |
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Dec 11 2018, 06:24 AM
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#570
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Glühbotchia @ Dec 10 2018, 06:30 PM) Absolute carnage today I think we're running out of appropriate superlatives to use at this stage This is precisely why we shouldn't have joined the EU (well, it's predecessor) in the first place - IMO any organisation that could inflict such damage on one of its members for merely wanting to leave, is not the benign body it claims to be! |
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Dec 11 2018, 07:58 AM
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#571
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,053 User: 3,474
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All of this damage is self inflicted.
You can’t leave a club and expect to retain all of its benefits. It’s like canceling your gym membership then throwing a fit when they won’t let you in to use the steam room after your membership has ended |
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Dec 11 2018, 10:08 AM
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#572
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Dec 11 2018, 07:58 AM) All of this damage is self inflicted. You can’t leave a club and expect to retain all of its benefits. It’s like canceling your gym membership then throwing a fit when they won’t let you in to use the steam room after your membership has ended And most people who voted Leave didn't expect to. |
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Dec 11 2018, 11:45 AM
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#573
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,796 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 11 2018, 10:08 AM) And most people who voted Leave didn't expect to. "They want to sell their cars to us, they will roll over to our demands" "We can have Canada Plus Plus" "We can trade on WTO terms with the EU" "We don't need immigrants" "We will be so rich without the EU" "The NHS will get shitloads of cash" "Turkey will invade the UK" "Everyone in the world will want to trade with us on better deals than we already have" That's not how I recall all of the liars lying during and after the referendum. Feel free to provide some evidence to support your claim that doesn't involve "well IIIIII knew what I was voting for" as the only example. Still waiting with baited breath for the wonderful deal you promised me would happen 2 years ago, still waiting for you to give me examples of what specific legislation in the EU you hate that affects us so badly that you would risk economic disaster to get out. Still waiting for all those marvellous deals with other countries that we don't already have and examples of countries listing marvellous deals on the horizon after 2 years of negotiating. All I see is members of the WTO saying "get stuffed if you think you will get a better deal. You're getting a worse deal because we have you over a barrel desperate". |
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Dec 11 2018, 11:59 AM
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#574
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,796 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Lapland Labia @ Dec 10 2018, 08:31 PM) Corbyn is the answer. He will make a United Socialist States of Europe. Corbyn can't organise a piss-up in the middle of the biggest piss-up-of-all-time. He has no scruples or interest in the welfare of the nations of the UK. The EU have NOT assured him they will give him a better deal. The Irish Border is not going away. A Norway deal will not please Brexiters who vote Labour because it will still have Freedom Of Movement. He is utterly utterly pissing about because he wants to be PM whatever the cost to us, the voters, and he wants to blame it on the Tories by doing nothing to help the situation. two thirds of :Labour voters are Remainers, one third Leavers. He can either piss off one-third or two-thirds, or by doing nothing and let economic disaster happen he can piss-off three-thirds. How is he going to avoid pissing off at the minimum one-third of his core voting base? I see Labour politicians on TV all the time but all they spout is platitudes and drivel. Sooner or Later they have to decide which option is going to cause the least amount of damage to Labour voters, Labour supporters, and the poor generally, and that option is a referendum with Remain on the ballot. At least if the result is to accept the deal, everyone can just get on with it and stop arguing about non-existing alternative options. |
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Dec 11 2018, 03:39 PM
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#575
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Dec 11 2018, 11:45 AM) "They want to sell their cars to us, they will roll over to our demands" "We can have Canada Plus Plus" "We can trade on WTO terms with the EU" "We don't need immigrants" "We will be so rich without the EU" "The NHS will get shitloads of cash" "Turkey will invade the UK" "Everyone in the world will want to trade with us on better deals than we already have" That's not how I recall all of the liars lying during and after the referendum. I never claimed to endorse any of those things - I simply voted out, and left it to the politicians to sort out the details. When we vote for MP's we're not expected to lay out what they should do in advance, yet for some bizarre reason, that *is* what we were supposed to do in voting to Leave? 
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Dec 11 2018, 03:51 PM
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#576
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 11 2018, 03:39 PM) I never claimed to endorse any of those things - I simply voted out, and left it to the politicians to sort out the details. When we vote for MP's we're not expected to lay out what they should do in advance, yet for some bizarre reason, that *is* what we were supposed to do in voting to Leave? It's not unreasonable to expect the people campaigning for change to give a rough idea of what change they are advocating. Otherwise, nobody can claim to have the remotest idea of what the electorate voted for (in an advisory referendum). Leave voters keep on telling us they knew exactly what they were voting for. How come, then, that 2 1/2 years on, we are in this utter mess? Could it be that a random group of 50 Leave voters would come up with at least 63 versions of what they voted for? |
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Dec 11 2018, 03:59 PM
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#577
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 11 2018, 03:51 PM) It's not unreasonable to expect the people campaigning for change to give a rough idea of what change they are advocating. Otherwise, nobody can claim to have the remotest idea of what the electorate voted for (in an advisory referendum). Leave voters keep on telling us they knew exactly what they were voting for. How come, then, that 2 1/2 years on, we are in this utter mess? Could it be that a random group of 50 Leave voters would come up with at least 63 versions of what they voted for? Why not - apparently 50 Remain voters can come up with 63 reasons people voted Leave... 
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Dec 11 2018, 04:44 PM
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#578
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,647 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 11 2018, 03:59 PM) Why not - apparently 50 Remain voters can come up with 63 reasons people voted Leave... So you think every Leave voter had only one reason for voting Leave? Besides, that is a completely different issue. If there were so many reasons for voting Leave, that makes a vote on the deal even more important. |
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Dec 11 2018, 05:06 PM
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#579
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,403 User: 12,929          
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 11 2018, 03:39 PM) I never claimed to endorse any of those things - I simply voted out, and left it to the politicians to sort out the details. When we vote for MP's we're not expected to lay out what they should do in advance, yet for some bizarre reason, that *is* what we were supposed to do in voting to Leave? Politicians in GEs have, you know, manifestos that while not always followed, at least give you a guideline and something we can point to and say as close as we're able to that the voters of that party endorse. Where did the Leave teams present their manifesto? Would have been real useful so that we both had more of an idea of what 'Leave' represents, and that we didn't spend 2 political years faffing about and constantly delaying. of course if they'd been more specific then the leave factions would have probably being split in the actual important referendum from the get go (c.f. the AV ref containing at least some voters who didn't vote for vote reform because it wasn't THEIR preferred vote reform), so why would they do that? |
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Dec 11 2018, 05:35 PM
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#580
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,053 User: 3,474
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Can’t believe it’s that time again, but in 2014 the Yes campaign produced a 650 page document giving very detailed specifics on what would happen in the result of a Yes vote.
The leave campaign have produced 0 pages of material to date |
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