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Posted by: Doctor Blind Feb 3 2020, 12:17 AM

The UK has officially left the EU as of 11pm on 31st January and we now have no representation in the EU - however we are now in the transition period (due to run until 31st December) where all the rules still apply and in effect nothing fundamentally changes.

The discussions on the future relationship/ future trade arrangements are now due to begin.

They have not started well, the UK is already blaming the EU for something that the UK has already agreed to, and thus started off the negotiations with the same acrimony that the WAB was negotiated under. I quote: 'One well-placed EU source described the Downing Street accusation that the EU had belatedly decided to insist on tougher level playing field conditions as “total bollocks”.'

Continue the discussion here, but please note this thread will be carefully monitored and users will be minded to read and follow the http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=229722.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 3 2020, 12:45 AM

I'm glad this thread's been started as I think this is a very good post from Caxton on Digital Spy:

"Could it be that maybe the people who want to leave the EU have got it right and that those who wanted to remain got it wrong. Can we actually succeed, I believe we can.

Cast your minds back to before the last General Election when there was a overwhelming majority of people on this forum who wanted the Tories and Johnson out and even people here who thought the Tories would not win an election for years and Labour would walk it and even talk of a Lib Dem Government or a Coalition was possible, but they were proved wrong

Of course the EU will make life difficult for us, they would not want our leaving to work as it could give a few other countries who are main contributors an idea to leave too.
Maybe this will work out OK for us and the more we keep telling ourselves we will fail out of the EU, then we will. Time now is to join together, leavers and remainers alike to get together and make the most of what we have, the more we fight between us, the worst it will be. The decision has been made, we are leaving, whether we like it or not and many clearly some here do not.

Together we are strong, split, we are weak, it is worth thinking about. No amount of arguing among ourselves will improve anything and will not change the decision that has now been made, so best to make the most of getting the best deal we can, together as a nation. There is nothing more would make the Europeans happy would be to see us fail as a divided nation in our quest to recover from this situation we have put ourselves in.-

We have to make this work for us as individuals and businesses alike, rich and poor, otherwise we will sink into oblivion and that will help nobody, the poor will suffer, the rich might just survive.

Incidentally I am an OAP, and voted "Remain" but once the referendum result was made I realised it was useless to keep fighting to Remain and salvage what we could from the situation. I voted Tory as they were the only ones I could see who could salvage anything from the situation as Corbyn and Labour looked to me unable to do this."

Posted by: Forever European Feb 3 2020, 12:47 AM

WRONG. We are not "coming together" when you denied us any say and seized 100% of the power. I doubt he's a remainer. He sounds like the, I was Labour but... trolls. Completely transparent. Look - they're trying to pass the blame onto us already for brexshit failing. You excluded us at your peril. It's all yours. Enjoy!

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Feb 3 2020, 02:16 AM

The UK deserves what it gets. English lefties need to take off the gloves and stop playing nice with the actual liars in government, in the media, and who are influencing their families to vote for things that are patently false.

If you become even more of a laughing stock on the world stage, at this point, that's on you. Over half of your population are chomping at the bit to become indentured slaves once again.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 3 2020, 06:00 AM

The Tories 'seized' nothing - they simply won a majority at the GE - that is a FACT, not trolling.

We SHOULD be coming together, that's the point - arguing further over what is now done and dusted is futile.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 3 2020, 06:08 AM

You think the GE campaign was 'playing nice'?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 3 2020, 07:01 AM

The disgraced former Defence Secretary Liam Fox told us that there would be dozens of trade agreements ready to sign the second we leave the EU. Assuming he failed to anticipate that we would leave at 11:00 on a Friday night, I assume all these wonderful deals will be signed this morning.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 3 2020, 07:08 AM

It’s amazing how many people of the brexshit persuasion are lining up to say “look, see it’s all fine. We didn’t die. Dover still works. It’s all good” without proper pushback from the media of “no shit, we haven’t actually left it. We just now take the rules with no say in what those rules are”

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 3 2020, 07:26 AM

How is that any different from Remainer claims that the country would face 'Chicken Little' instant disaster the moment we left?

In reality, both sides exaggerated to promote their cause.

Posted by: Forever European Feb 3 2020, 08:00 AM

Nope. Sorry. It doesn't work lile that. A little compromise would have gone a LONG way x And the tories seized it on 43% of the vote thanks to a corrupt system, plus the reasons I outlined in another thread. It was 100% of the power over a split vote. They ignored and insulted us. It's their brexshit. I will have NOTHING to do with it.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 3 2020, 08:06 AM

The direst predictions were about what would happen if we left without a deal. That may yet happen, but it isn’t the case atm.

Posted by: Jüpiter👑 Feb 3 2020, 08:36 AM

Um, yes.

Boris Johnson lied a lot and literally no-one in the media or in the opposing parties called it for what it was.

Not misrepresentation. Not spinning of the statistics. Outright untruths, saying things that factually did not happen and will not happen. And the British people who recognized that - let him. Let him use lies to convince others. That's a sick country.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 3 2020, 09:17 AM

The Tories made compromises with the EU in order to secure the deal they have - what did you *think* they have been doing for the past few years?

Posted by: Doctor Blind Feb 3 2020, 10:18 AM

I think that Michael meant a compromise between those that voted for remain and those leave, I'd agree with him that a Norway/EFTA type relationship would have been a good compromise for a close result. Such an outcome would have been more likely to bring the country together and would have been justified, not to mention it would have meant less damage was likely to the UK economy.

The Tories haven't made any compromises anyway, they've merely surrendered to the original terms that the EU gave in 2017 where Northern Ireland remains IN the CU & SM and there is a border/checks in the Irish Sea.

Johnson himself said that 'no Prime Minister could ever accept such an outcome' but has pivoted and thrown the DUP/unionists under a bus (probably containing a load of lies on its outside) at the merest hint of seizing power, and similarly Farage has also pivoted from 'this isn't Brexit' to 'this is Brexit and it was all down to me' despite nothing having changed. It is actually quite funny to observe.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 3 2020, 10:31 AM

Well, almost all politicians *are* unscrupulous types (again, just an observation, not a criticism).

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 3 2020, 04:22 PM

DELETED. Youtube vid won't link

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 3 2020, 05:34 PM

From The Mirror


Journalists from every major national broadcaster and newspaper walked out of No 10 today after the Government tried to pick and choose which media outlets it briefed.

Broadcasters including political editors Laura Kuenssberg from the BBC, Robert Peston from ITV and Beth Rigby from Sky News were among those who left in protest.

Around a dozen journalists from organisations including the Financial Times, the Sun and the Telegraph had received an official invitation from Downing Street to attend the briefing with David Frost, Boris Johnson's Europe advisor, on the PM's post-Brexit trade plans.

But political editors from other publications - who have previously been invited to non-political briefings given by senior civil servants on government premises - also turned up.

They were granted entry into No 10 but a security official then read out a list of names for those who were allowed entry to the briefing - with those from left-of-centre outlets forced to stand on the opposite side of the entrance hall.

Those banned from the briefing, in a move reminiscent of Donald Trump's administration which has tried to exclude journalists from critical organisations, included The Daily Mirror, The i, Huffington Post and the Independent.

Mr Johnson's head of communications Lee Cain arrived and told reporters: "Those who are invited to the briefing can stay, everyone else I'm afraid will have to leave."

After journalists pointed out that briefings with civil servants - as non-political representatives of government - had always been open to the full spectrum of media outlets, he replied: "We're welcome to brief whoever we like."

The journalists then walked out of No 10, in the latest escalation of Mr Johnson's tensions with the media.

Posted by: Limp Brexit Feb 3 2020, 05:40 PM

Fascism.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 3 2020, 05:45 PM

Good that they all supported each other and walked out in unison.

Posted by: EU Boy Weeyals Feb 3 2020, 06:35 PM

I don’t plan to ‘come together’ for this at all. My feelings on this have been ignored for four years and so I’m expecting those that wanted this to make it all work out without my support.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 3 2020, 07:36 PM

This idea that we should all get behind the government regardless of our real feelings is positively sinister.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Feb 3 2020, 09:35 PM

Whilst I've grown somewhat numb to the whole Brexit thing by now, my inner Fenian just can't ignore the fact that one of its leading proponents today referred to it as a "Glorious Revolution".

Those Protestants, up to no good as usual.

Posted by: Steve201 Feb 3 2020, 09:51 PM

Communism!!

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 3 2020, 10:47 PM

No Scottish media participated in the walk out today because no Scottish media had been cancelled invited to anything today by No10 and were excluded from the briefings that all other media were part of.


This unifying the nation off to a cracking start.


I hate calls from unity from a power grabbing liar who has done everything possible at every possible step to sow division. You can’t heal a divide by going after the hardest possible Brexit from a very narrow victory. It’s absolutely not happening. The clown can do one

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 4 2020, 06:25 AM

Both fascism and communism?

I agree it was an unwise move to try & exclude certain parts of the media though.

Posted by: mald487 Feb 4 2020, 08:31 AM

Two different posts from two different posters

This move sets a dangerous precedent. Although it shouldn't come as a shock to anyone with half a brain.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 4 2020, 09:22 AM

Yes it was.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 4 2020, 09:32 AM

This f***ing country 🤦🏼‍♂️

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 4 2020, 10:55 AM

Obviously 2 posters hence my quoting them both.

Agreed.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 4 2020, 11:01 AM

Would it be better if we all thought the same?

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 4 2020, 11:33 AM

Actually this is one of the times that YES it would be AMAZING if people didn't have their heads so far up their ass and all thought the same.

I mean what's the reasoning and goal here? I would never understand those people.

Are they scared these people are plotting something and they're not able to understand what? Are they so insecure they are afraid others are making fun of them? Are they just racist? So many options~

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 4 2020, 11:48 AM

On this subject? Yes. Yes it f***ing would be. Something that should be plainly obvious to anyone with a functioning brain. It’d contribute to a significant drop in hate crimes and improve the day to day lives of many people who call the UK home.

How about you drop the whataboutism for 5 minutes. Ya boring.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 4 2020, 01:17 PM

But it's part of my posting style.

Posted by: dandy* Feb 4 2020, 02:43 PM

So vidcapper, when you're in another country do you drop using English to talk to your family and instead talk exclusively in the language of the country you're in?


People should only be allowed here if they speak the language all the time? Where does that train of thought end exactly? It's an example of the types of opinion that, if unchallenged, make it ultimately acceptable to only accept the absolute stereotypical norm which is really very dangerous for many people in society.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 4 2020, 02:50 PM

Are you assuming I am someone that objects to immigrants speaking their own language?

I have never said any such thing - please don't make any such unfounded assumptions about me.

Posted by: dandy* Feb 4 2020, 03:05 PM

Only because you implied it with your post. If you don't want people to think that, don't imply it!


What was the point of your post if not to imply it's reasonable for people to expect everyone to speak English all the time? Or was it just pointless contrariness for the sake of it?


edit - I think my personal problem with this particular approach is that you in particular never really bother fully posting an opinion. You just casually imply things and then get all defensive immediately. If you have a contrasting view, post it and be prepared to back it up and argue it - don't just make blasé comments implying things that amount to nothing more than casual spam if you don't believe what you're posting. You don't even bother to deny your stance and correct any assumptions.

But, as we've talked about before, this doesn't apply to racist/homophobic/transphobic stances on anything. If you're incapable of not knowing what is offensive in that area then you'd be better off either educating yourself or simply not engaging on the subject.

Posted by: blacksquare Feb 4 2020, 03:06 PM

Very droll.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 4 2020, 04:00 PM

I do usually tend to avoid it, because it's too easily to unknowingly offend - I NEVER EVER set out to deliberately offend!

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Feb 4 2020, 04:08 PM

See, it's not nice when people imply stuff about you is it?

Posted by: dandy* Feb 4 2020, 04:13 PM

It's sad then that you somehow manage to.

I appreciate you've not asked for my view but, if I were you, I'd think about whether I could expand my post into a reasoned argument or whether I'd be worried about what I was saying. If the answer is that I wouldn't want to stand behind a more full post, it's probably not a good idea for anyone to post a shorter implied one.

Being entirely open here, it's getting to the point where editing and deleting such instances is becoming more of a hassle than it's worth for everyone. And even if you don't mean to offend, we can't just entirely ignore the views of the majority of the rest of the site when you don't seem to change your approach to those type of posts

Posted by: EU Boy Weeyals Feb 4 2020, 06:50 PM

Are all these morons upset if I start speaking Welsh when I’m in England?

Seriously, let people speak in the language they’re comfortable in. It’s not hard.

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 4 2020, 07:07 PM

View this post on Instagram

okay SORRY but i spat out my food

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 6 2020, 10:14 AM

'No more hiding place' - one thing about Brexit is that UK politicians will no longer be able to claim, rightly or wrongly, that 'it's all Brussels fault'.

I know that might be stating the obvious, but I think it bears repeating, and may come back to haunt the Tories...

Posted by: Steve201 Feb 6 2020, 02:39 PM

Its a good thing and will hopefully highlight the differences between the main parties more when it comes to social and equality issues.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 6 2020, 03:26 PM

But will those outweigh economic ones?

Posted by: Steve201 Feb 6 2020, 08:17 PM

Probably not the economic ones have been blurred for the past 40 years despite the Corbyn intervention but the left has pushed the right leftward(on social issues) probably due to the EU membership since the 1960s whereas now they will be challenged to have specific British legislation to display a defence of equality and human rights.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 8 2020, 01:23 PM

Has the brexit coins thread been deleted?

I was right in the middle of posting to it!

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 8 2020, 02:35 PM

Yes it has been deleted

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 8 2020, 02:38 PM

Why wasn't it just locked though, as usually happens?

Posted by: EU Boy Weeyals Feb 8 2020, 02:42 PM

In all fairness, it could be talked about in here and it was clearly only created to troll.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 8 2020, 03:15 PM

That is suspected of virtually all the threads me & Chris post here.

Posted by: EU Boy Weeyals Feb 8 2020, 03:28 PM

I never mentioned you.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 8 2020, 03:35 PM

Pardon me, then. I just assumed...

Posted by: blacksquare Feb 11 2020, 11:09 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true, https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1110452473037275136. Of course, the real news is about a bridge that will never be built.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 11 2020, 11:44 AM

Oh this is going to go so well

Posted by: A Capella Sally Feb 11 2020, 04:20 PM

Food prices confirmed to rise and also food shortages. Ever think they're giving us a hard brexshit in orddr to um put people off the idea and have us rejoin the EU wby a massive majority??

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 11 2020, 04:26 PM

Do you have a link to that news? Do they mean now or after Dec. 31st?

Posted by: A Capella Sally Feb 11 2020, 06:30 PM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-boris-johnson-food-price-fruit-vegetable-supermarket-shortage-a9328561.html?fbclid=IwAR2i_Ool7GTjv8BDs-wgHfFxQa3UlkA9vX6iDgMUqRlXkN0Z3AgepsCDcdg

We have just in time supply chains. Even Mad May wanted frictionless trade. What an absolute nightmare!

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/first-blow-for-post-brexit-britain-as-australia-rejects-trade-deal/07/01/?fbclid=IwAR1AeW28hMz_UFg9nXuqhDN7EQx6RyZiWdI0_PH1LXouCVLU4vc3lQUnTps

So much for thr Commonwealth running to the rescue! Also ... why does the UK not want free movement/ free trade with Europe, but wants it with Australia, a country on the other side of the globe? Bizarre.

Also: the brexit lot have started painting over the names of European twinned cities on town signs. Unbelievable. Remember, brexiters: if you wish very, very hard, maybe Europe will just disappear! Well, all but England!

Posted by: J00ps Feb 11 2020, 06:52 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51453189

Posted by: EU Boy Weeyals Feb 11 2020, 07:25 PM

I didn’t vote for any of this, just saying.

Posted by: blacksquare Feb 11 2020, 07:39 PM

Most didn't, as much as some will like to pretend otherwise.

Posted by: J00ps Feb 11 2020, 07:50 PM

"Stop talking Britain down, believe in this more positive complete fantasy!"

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 11 2020, 08:08 PM

From The Guardian.

Gove starts to come clean.

Michael Gove has told businesses that trade with Europe they need to prepare for “significant change” with “inevitable” border checks for “almost everybody” who imports from the EU from next year.

In the first official confirmation that the government is going to impose trade barriers post-Brexit, he warned there would be checks on food and goods of animal origin, plus customs declarations and mandatory safety and security certificates required for all imports.

“You have to accept we will need some friction. We will minimise it but it is an inevitability of our departure,” he told delegates at a Cabinet Office event held in central London on Monday, entitled Preparing Our Border for the Future Relationship.

Gove, who as chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster is de facto deputy prime minister, also warned delegates it could take five years to get a smart border involving online processes up and running and said businesses had to be ready for the change next January, whatever the outcome of the next phase of Brexit negotiations.

“In questions and answers his officials talked of an ‘operational border’ from the beginning of 2021, which they said was laying the foundation for best borders in 2025,” said one delegate, who reported that Gove had warned the UK must be ready for the completion of Brexit on 1 January next year when the transition period ends.

Later the government issued an official update confirming checks on both imports and exports.

The update warned that the “policy easements put in place for a potential no-deal exit will not be reintroduced as businesses have time to prepare”.

The “easements” that will not apply include deferred VAT payments on imports, which the government had considered in a no-deal plan.

Echoing Boris Johnson’s comments in a speech last week, Gove spoke of pursuing a Canada or Australian-type deal, which EU trade commissioner Phil Hogan has said was “code for no deal” as the bloc does not have a deal with Australia.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 11 2020, 08:08 PM

All this will surely cause long delays at ports and massive lorry tailbacks starting Jan. 1st.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 11 2020, 10:00 PM

If only people had been warned this would happen. Oh, wait,...

Posted by: Limp Brexit Feb 11 2020, 10:25 PM

All of the stuff the experts said would happen has started to happen! Who'da thought experts would know a bit more about this than everyone else eh! I'm shocked!

Posted by: Chez Wombat Feb 11 2020, 10:50 PM

C'mon guys, who needs food on time, we're taking back control!!11

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 11 2020, 11:18 PM

come on hunger games

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 12 2020, 06:49 AM

Just watch the cards start to fall now. Vauxhall at Elsmere Port will go, new owners PSA have been very clear about that. Nissan in Sunderland is edging closer towards the exit door. Both would devastate the local economies and the national economy. And they’re just the high profile names. Thousands of business rely on frictionless trade. They’ll seriously struggle with the rising costs


We’re gonna see a self inflicted recession in 2021.



In other hard Brexit news, German bank N26 has pulled out of the UK. Definite end of passporting means it would have to get a UK banking licence and it’s decided it’d rather chew on some broken glass

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Feb 12 2020, 10:44 AM

I have four words for you, and they just so happen to be my favourite four words in the English language.

I TOLD YOU SO

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 12 2020, 10:49 AM

it's been 4 minutes but vidcapper still isn't here with the "now now, let's not fight and make this work!!1". Strange.

Posted by: Rooney Feb 12 2020, 11:39 AM

I’ve been saying this shit for almost a year. The ports are going to be crazy, not only that once the regulations change just think how difficult it’s going to be to import raw food materials in to the country. It’s going to be ridiculous, businesses will pass the extra costs on the consumers. Tell you this for a fact now for free!

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 12 2020, 12:05 PM

And he won’t ever be

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 12 2020, 12:35 PM

Makes a whole lot of sense now

Posted by: Envoirment Feb 12 2020, 08:21 PM

I doubt there'll be a recession, mainly as the government will likely do everything to avoid one. I wouldn't be surprised to see tax cuts/business rate cuts to try to off-set any added costs. Although that means increasing borrowing which may result in the debt starting to increase as a % of GDP once again.

Posted by: Harve Feb 12 2020, 08:32 PM

Nissan are in fact staying in Britain regardless of the Brexit end state because - according to https://www.ft.com/content/c4f0d1e2-4442-11ea-a43a-c4b328d9061c - they are counting on:

1) UK consumers no longer being able to afford cars built abroad due to
a) increased import costs of cars built abroad
b) UK consumers becoming poorer overall
and
2) other manufacturers leaving, reducing competition for domestically-built cars

It's good news for Sunderland that they are staying but they are betting on Brexit making Britain poorer. Which is quite a safe bet.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 12 2020, 08:37 PM

That’s interesting. I wonder if they will expand to making more products from the wider group. It’s the only way the plant would remain fully viable. That or cutting production and shifts.


It is smart logic by the Alliance, I would be inclined to agree with their assessment. Wee-er poorer and isolated. Sounds like the path we’re on

Posted by: Envoirment Feb 13 2020, 12:05 AM

One of the things I'm interested in is if there's going to be a bigger shift to manufacturing more locally (UK/Europe). In part due to Brexit, but also the recent corona virus outbreak has highlighted just how much a lot of places depend on China.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 13 2020, 06:20 PM

From Sky News.

Trump is set to strike a trade deal with the EU ahead of the UK as his relationship with Boris Johnson sours

Donald Trump looks set to prioritise trade talks with the EU over the UK.

Trump’s administration had previously insisted that the UK would be “at the front of the line” for a new trade deal but this seems to now not be the case.

However, White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow told Bloomberg News last week that because of the existing “structure” in trade talks with the EU, “reigniting that will be easier” than starting from scratch with the UK.

Trump’s relationship with European countries has suffered in recent months following his threats to impose tariffs on the EU and trigger a trade war.

However, both sides have signaled they are willing to reset relations since Ursula van der Leyen was installed as European Commissioner late last year.

“No one around here is salivating for a trade war,” Kudlow said. “Believe me, no one.”

Meanwhile, diplomatic relations between Donald Trump and his “friend” Boris Johnson seem to have cooled significantly in recent weeks.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 13 2020, 06:26 PM

If only someone had warned people about this. Oh, hang on, they did.

Posted by: Harve Feb 13 2020, 07:55 PM

I mean even with a normal US president and a normal UK prime minister with a normal relationship, the EU will always be a priority as it much more important.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 16 2020, 08:31 PM

From The Telegraph.

Drivers and pet owners face far more complicated and what could be quite expensive EU travel from 1st Jan. 2021.

Starting next year, UK drivers will need an international driving permit to use their cars in most European countries.

At the moment, British people can travel without restrictions across every country in the EU. Brexit puts an end to that.

Your EU pet passports will no longer be valid from next year. Pet owners are advised to start planning their trips and seeing their vets at least four months in advance. Rabies jabs and various certificates of health required.

British drivers will now need to obtain a “green card” to prove that they are insured to drive their car abroad. This will incur a fee.

If you are involved in a traffic collision abroad, the resulting processes and paperwork could become a great deal more complicated and expensive.

Your British car insurance policy document on its own will not be recognised as the legal minimum cover to be able to drive in Europe.

British tourists will probably have to obtain insurance to cover them in case they are injured or fall ill while abroad.

Expect, in a worst-case scenario, “very significantly reduced access across the short strait of Dover for up to six months”.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 16 2020, 08:41 PM

A lot of people are soon going to find out how many of the things they have been taking for granted were due to our membership of the EU.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 16 2020, 08:42 PM

Telegraph Brexiteer readers seem quite annoyed and dismayed at all this.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 16 2020, 08:44 PM

You could just take your dog before with a vaccination certificate but from next year it will cost hundreds in vets fees for extra jabs, blood tests etc before you go. They need a separate rabies jab 4 months before travel then blood tests after 2 and 3 months to ensure it's in the blood stream. Every vet visit costs as we know and all this won't be covered by pet insurance they say. So no spur of the moment trips with your dog to see relatives or for a break. It's said this is good news for kennels as people just won't bother taking them.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 16 2020, 08:57 PM

It's very tempting to say something along the lines of "You couldn't make it up". The trouble is that people were warned this would happen but we were accused of making it up.

Posted by: Limp Brexit Feb 16 2020, 09:00 PM

We told them this would happen and that the Tories and Farage wers charlatans!!

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 16 2020, 09:08 PM

Were we actually warned about travel and taking pets abroad though? I can't remember now. I don't do either but many people do. My sister takes their dog to France caravanning every summer.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 16 2020, 09:25 PM

Yes we warned you about this. Extensively. Frequently.


I have no sympathy at all for Brexit and 2017/19 tory voters who are suddenly discovering that leaving the EU is actually going to cost them money or seriously inconvenience them. They were warned. They elected not to heed the warnings and now they shall pay the consequences like the rest of us who did heed the warnings.


The exception to this is the brexpats. The Brexit voting expats. They I actively hate. Imagine benefiting so much from EU migration laws and then voting to pull the ladder up behind you because of eu migrants. You can’t make this shit up. Eu migrants complaining about eu migrants to a country they don’t even live in anymore. Utter stupidity.

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 16 2020, 09:29 PM

It's very logical to expect everything between EU and Britain to change so don't go all blaming others for not warning you explicitly that things a, b and c will happen if UK leaves. Leavers should take responsibility for 100% of the shit that's about to go down.

Posted by: Limp Brexit Feb 16 2020, 09:40 PM

It was all, "shut up, experts!", "shut up, you elite remainers!", or "pRoJecT FeAr"

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 16 2020, 09:54 PM

Do we know how many of those there were who voted leave?

Posted by: Limp Brexit Feb 16 2020, 10:14 PM

No, and any results would not be very telling anyway, as people who have lived away for 7 years lose their vote. Ah! Such a developed democracy!

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 16 2020, 10:18 PM

Oh I never knew that.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 16 2020, 10:34 PM

Michael your inbox is full. Can you clear some out please.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 17 2020, 06:43 AM

There’s plenty of interviews in the media with Brexit voting expats in Spain and France now shocked and horrified that they need to apply for residency and such like.


Think it’s 15 years

Posted by: J00ps Feb 17 2020, 10:23 AM

Brexiteers: "I didn't vote for this!!!!"

But you did. And you insisted, when we warned you to do some research and make sure you knew what you were supporting, that you didn't need to,and that we were BULLYING you to even suggest it.

I'd have more sympathy if Brexiteers hadn't been so aggressive from the off and insistent that they were right just because and that even doing the slightest due diligence was stupid.

Posted by: Harve Feb 18 2020, 08:10 PM

The media - of all leanings - like to highlight these anomalies to (deservedly) mock them, but it's very unrepresentative.

We don't know how many migrants in France voted Remain, although I suspect it's very high amongst those who didn't have their vote taken away. But we do know that 80% of UK migrants in France are of working age and just 20% are retired. The vox pops on the Costa del Sol and in the Dordogne might make you think those percentages are the other way round.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 18 2020, 09:24 PM

From The Sun:

Brussels Bullies getting Frost Bite

Brexit negotiator David Frost yesterday said Britain won't budge on escaping EU rules.
He compared Britain to a guest who "had enough of the party and was trying to find a way to slip out"
And he told the Brussels audience "We were already in the hallway."
Europe's leaders have insisted we sign up to a level playing field on workers rights and state bailouts as the price for a trade deal"
Mr. Frost said Boris Johnson's stand "isn't a simple negotiating position which might change under pressure"
He warned the PM will instead walk away at the end of the year without a deal.
Mr Frost said it is wrong to try to tie us to more than the EU asked of Canada or Japan in trade deals,

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 18 2020, 10:07 PM

Why are you just regurgitating government propaganda without thought or comment?


How about you instead post the news that the propaganda piece above is deflecting from? The piece that confirms that HMG will not be punishing it’s own opening position paper after all presumably because it either a) doesn’t exist or b) contradicts every public statement they’ve made since 2014.


And of course there’s different standards for Canada and Japan. They are both thousands of miles away, not close enough to literally be connected by a tunnel. Again this is literally just meaningless propaganda to disguise what their intentions are and deflect from the real story. Note how none of the examples are European and never have been?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 18 2020, 10:10 PM

It's a news story that made the papers today. It's not particularly government propaganda. Frost's speech has been widely reported.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 18 2020, 10:13 PM

Yes I know they're doing that. It's so Boris can keep his cards close to his chest and not let the EU know what his bottom lines are which seems a good idea really. You never enter a card game with them knowing your hand already do you?

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 18 2020, 10:19 PM

It is categorically none of those things.

The EU is being very transparent about its position. It’s papers were published this evening. The EU has been transparent all along and thus far has won every step of the way.

You can’t hold your cards close to your chest when you have no cards to play. The EU are capable of reading the news and watching TV. They see everything that has been said by propaganda merchant after propaganda merchant. They know that businesses are threatening to leave. They know what the demands of the SMMT, Trade Unions, CBA, Governments of Scotland, NI and Wales are all saying. The only thing there is to hide, is the UK government hiding it’s true agenda from the British people and how much damage their ideological pursuit will cause the country

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 19 2020, 08:20 AM

The Government last night announced their new immigration policy for everyone from 1/1/21`and it will be fairly tough. Apparently discussed on last night's BBC2 Newsnight. Someone said the new points system is a bit like that used now for PIP and ESA benefits.


70 points are required.

Essential: 20 points for having a sponsored job (not self employed), 20 points for that job being at appropriate skill level, 10 points for speaking English

Additional points graded by salary, having a Msc, PhD or job being in designated shortage such as nursing. So who decides your job is in shortage, or that you are working at an appropriate skill level? Sounds like even more paperwork for employers and red-tape bureaucracy.

One big standout is that someone self employed won't be admissible to the country with this points system since that won't count as being employed. Seems to target self employed builders, plumbers etc.

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 19 2020, 08:34 AM

Non-EU "self-employed" people never had any legal grounds to obtain a work visa anyway..

Not much seems to be changing really. Same bureaucracy but with a points system.

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 19 2020, 08:40 AM

There's also a special job list that shows which ones are in shortage at the moment. Statistics decide that.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 19 2020, 09:55 AM

If EU countries reciprocate, I would struggle to get enough points to work their teaching English as a foreign language. To make it worse, the Home Secretary is still boasting about taking that opportunity away from me.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 19 2020, 10:18 AM

Yeah this. Most countries operate one, it’s fairly normal. My concern is what the government will classify as a job that is of sufficient skill.

What the Tories often deem to be low skill labour is actually where we are most desperate for migrant workers. Eg Farming, Care Homes, Nursing, Cleaning. Many of the jobs natives consider to be beneath them

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 19 2020, 10:20 AM

Unfortunately from what I understand the EU is approaching this on the basis that anything the UK does to its citizens will be fully reciprocated by the EU to UK citizens.

Posted by: mald487 Feb 19 2020, 11:26 AM

And that is completely understandble.

Posted by: mald487 Feb 19 2020, 11:36 AM

On a related side note. Have you considered maybe looking at Asia? Countries like China, Vietnam, Korea are crying out for ESL teachers. The usual requirements are have a passport from a native English speaking country(so being EU is not a requirement), hold a TEFL or CELTA and a degree(in anything), and whilst I don´t have a crystal ball, I don´t see the requirements for a work permit changing in the several years at least as they are crying out for competent teachers.

Or does it have to be Europe?

Posted by: I. :II: z Feb 19 2020, 12:24 PM

Quite, Asia is the best market for TEFL teachers, that's where I am right now. Actually the Middle East tends to have the highest salaries but China's not far behind and what with the current situation will likely have a shortage once coronavirus clears up. Japan/SK are competitive and SE Asia is great for younger workers looking for a year or two out.

I think they aren't so great with giving older workers contracts though, which might run Simon into some trouble.

Teaching in the EU in that industry will now be great for Irish citizens, as they'll technically have first pick, although I imagine the industry will increasingly use non-native speakers within the EU now as quite a large part of Europe has a traditionally good English proficiency anyway.

I mean, it's representative of the whole issue though. Lots of people will want to (and I'd argue should, for the experience) live abroad at some point in their career. Now the opportunity to do so in the countries closest to them - uprooting yourself and moving to the other side of the world isn't for everyone - has been highly hampered for the British.

Posted by: mald487 Feb 19 2020, 12:41 PM

Yeah I know there is a preference for younger teachers in some schools. However, in my language center we had guys in their 50s(I want to say early 60s as well but I´m not sure, and if you have experience to boot a lot of school will put that first.

But yes, I agree with your main point. The opportunity to go and live and work somewhere outside of your comfort zone has just been made significantly long winded for many, especially those who don´t want to move to the opposite side of the world or teaching English(it really isn´t for everyone )

Posted by: Harve Feb 19 2020, 02:08 PM

The proposed system of requiring a high salary, job offer, English proficiency etc. demands that the prospective migrant already be the 'ideal migrant' that they may well end up being in five years, but before having set foot in the country. It doesn't work like that in real life. Many people come with no job offer, they further develop their skills and they work their way up.

I don't see how the vast majority of people in their 20s in their early career as young professionals could possibly migrate under the proposed setup. As for so-called low-skilled jobs, it's an unequivocal disaster.

I've said this before but what Britain actually deserves isn't lowered migration but a massive brain drain of its UK-born youth.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 19 2020, 02:28 PM

Yes, age is a problem in some Asian countries including China.

One reason for preferring Europe is that I have ageing parents. I want to be able to get back here reasonably quickly (and cheaply) if necessary. Even without that extra consideration, Europe has always been my preferred destination.

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 19 2020, 04:28 PM

I'd argue that it does and this is how it's always worked in the UK for people outside the EU. But of course only the very talented minds end up moving abroad for work at a young age. The rest get there by moving up the career ladder in their own field and building connections from home first.

Posted by: Klaus Feb 19 2020, 04:35 PM

One of the biggest problems we currently face is the ageing population which of course impacts on two of the biggest expenditures the country has, of health and social care. It would therefore be an absolutely barmy step to enforce an abstract figure for salary on immigration because it will cause such a big impact on our health and social care system to the point it probably wouldn't be able to work.

It's such a regressive step and incredibly worrying when both systems are already on their knees.

Also, it's nice when your Government says you are low skilled. I’ll put it on the CV

EDIT: just seen that nursing would be excluded. However, social care will not?! Crazy.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 19 2020, 04:38 PM

And pretty childish if you don't mind me saying so. This isn't a primary school playground game.

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 19 2020, 04:48 PM

The irony of this coming from a Brexiteer.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 19 2020, 04:50 PM

I thought Johnson was in favour of primary school games. Certainly that film of last week's Cabinet meeting would suggest so.

When one country introduces restrictions, it is hardly a surprise if those countries on the receiving end reciprocate.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 19 2020, 04:50 PM

Well it's not a game and us Brexiteers have never said it is one. Sometimes I think Boris is treating it as a game too. Some of the things he does seem a bit childish if I'm honest.

Posted by: Limp Brexit Feb 19 2020, 06:25 PM

You should have supported the only adult in the room - Corbyn x

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 20 2020, 11:52 AM

Here's another response to the government's immigration policy.

Posted by: Botchia Feb 20 2020, 02:12 PM

Chris shook - get your fruit picking boots ready x

Posted by: EU Boy Weeyals Feb 20 2020, 02:52 PM

Are you sure that this isn’t just one of those mistakes that Patel is allowed to make because she’s only human like Chris keeps reminding us?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 20 2020, 03:03 PM

If Pritti Hopeless had any integrity (unlikely for a Tory, I know) she would be packing her bags ready for a one-way trip to Uganda. Her parents would have been unable to come here from Uganda if her rules had been in place at the time, so surely she should leave the country to demonstrate how strong her support for her own rules is.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 22 2020, 03:45 PM

This seems quite alarming to me. Chlorinated chicken anyone?

From Business Insider:

The United Kingdom gave its clearest sign yet that it plans to ditch its commitment to maintaining European Union food standards in order to secure a post-Brexit trade deal with President Donald Trump.

UK officials are set to break away from strict EU rules on sanitary and phytosanitary measures covering food and agricultural goods at an upcoming World Trade Organization meeting, City AM reported on Thursday.

The UK is in an 11-month post-Brexit transition period, during which it will continue to follow all EU rules and regulations, including those for food standards.

But at the WTO meeting, Prime Minister Boris Johnson's government will make a "clear statement about future intentions" for how the UK will approach food standards in trade deals with the US and other countries, City AM said.

The National Farmers' Union's Brexit director recently told Business Insider that the industry feared the government would ultimately trade away UK food standards in talks with "fearsome" US negotiators.

"We all know in a trade negotiation, at some point, [the UK] is going to need to make concessions," Nick von Westenholz told Business Insider.

"And this isn't a negotiation with a small partner where the UK can flex its muscles.

"This is a negotiation with one of the largest economies in the world with an absolutely fearsome reputation for negotiating trade deals, and one which under the current administration is even more transactional in the way it views trade relationships."

The EU's rules on hygiene and animal welfare block US foods like chicken and beef from entering its markets.

While Johnson has said the UK will not lower its food standards after leaving the EU, he has also said his government's policy will be dictated "by science and not by mumbo-jumbo."

Posted by: *Tim Feb 22 2020, 03:54 PM

You find this alarming yet have been warned about this several times. When will you learn....

Posted by: blacksquare Feb 22 2020, 04:17 PM

It's an act at this point — don't fall for it.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 23 2020, 09:03 AM

Don't think this will go down too well with the EU.


British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s Brexit team has been instructed to come up with plans to “get around” the Northern Ireland protocol in the Brexit withdrawal agreement, the Sunday Times newspaper has reported.

Taskforce Europe, which is run by the prime minister’s EU negotiator David Frost, are seeking to evade Irish Sea checks on goods passing from Britain to Northern Ireland, according to the newspaper.

The officials believe that Suella Braverman, the new attorney-general, may need to give fresh legal advice to the justify the move, the newspaper said. Sources told the Sunday Times that Braverman was appointed because her predecessor Geoffrey Cox was not willing to take such action.

Johnson’s cabinet will meet on Tuesday to sign off on the proposals, which will then be presented in parliament and published online on Thursday, the report added.

France on Wednesday said it was imperative that negotiations over a future trade relationship between Britain and the EU included customs checks in the Irish Sea.

Johnson struck a divorce deal with the EU last October that leaves the United Kingdom’s province of Northern Ireland inside the UK customs area but all EU procedures will apply to goods arriving there.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 23 2020, 09:05 AM

Does anyone else think that Boris is doing these things on purpose to p*** off the EU? It seems like it although he has no reason to as we're out now and need those all important trade deals.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 23 2020, 09:43 AM

That phrase is a euphemism for "Braverman was appointed because she was less wedded to the idea that governments should have to act within the law".

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 27 2020, 05:24 PM

From Sky News.


Boris Johnson is preparing to tear up part of the Brexit deal as he sets out his "red lines" for a trade agreement with the European Union on Thursday.

The Prime Minister has made it clear that he will not be bound by the political declaration attached to the EU Withdrawal Agreement, which sets out the ground rules for a trade deal.

Downing Street sources said the rules of engagement agreed by Mr Johnson last year had been superseded by promises made in the Tory manifesto on which he was elected in December.

The Prime Minister believes he is within his rights to go back on previous agreements covering areas including Northern Ireland, fishing rights and state aid.


Following this the EU cannot believe Johnson will stick to anything he signs up to so are going to demand very strict safeguards in any Free Trade Agreement, which Johnson will refuse to agree to

So no deal it is.

So much for the 'oven ready Brexit deal'

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 27 2020, 05:49 PM

The UK desperately needs agreements with a whole host of countries. How will breaking an existing agreement before the ink is dry help in this process?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 27 2020, 05:53 PM

It won't at all. No country will trust Boris's word on anything any more.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 27 2020, 06:33 PM

Who would have thought that making a big fat liar Prime Minister might have a downside?

Posted by: Limp Brexit Feb 27 2020, 06:46 PM

We called it. We said over and over that what would happen would be a one party Tory England state on a no deal brexshit, surrounded by the EU.

Posted by: mald487 Feb 27 2020, 07:16 PM

Who could have possibly seen this coming huh?

Posted by: Jester Feb 27 2020, 07:42 PM

Are you now saying you actually believed Boris and the Tories?!

Bloody hell

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 27 2020, 08:06 PM

I thought he was a lot more trustworthy that he's showing himself to be now.

Posted by: Jester Feb 27 2020, 08:27 PM

Well DUH.

Oh Chris

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 28 2020, 05:22 PM

50,000 extra border staff needed by January.


A race to hire 50,000 people in the next six months to process Brexit paperwork is under way after the government confirmed they would be needed for border operations.

But experts have warned it will be a challenge to train enough people in time to be competent in the complexity of customs declarations and the second layer of red tape involving entry and exit declaration forms that are mandatory for trading with the EU.

The Road Haulage Association has warned that the number of declaration forms for tariffs alone will rocket from the current 50m a year to 200-250m a year.

In addition, the exit and entry forms introduced after the 9/11 terror attack in New York to ensure safety on ferries and planes will involve another 100-125m forms being processed every year.

Michael Gove, the chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, who is responsible for readying the country for full Brexit at the end of the year, confirmed in parliament on Thursday afternoon that the RHA estimated 50,000 new recruits would be needed in the next six months.

Rod McKenzie, the managing director of policy and public affairs at the RHA, said: “We have been told by a large freight company expert in the field that they get a productivity of around 4,000 clearances a year per staff member (that is about 20 clearances a day). That makes sense given the complexity of many transactions. Worth noting, that is with skilled, trained, experienced labour.

“So if we are dealing with 200m extra declarations, at a productivity rate of 4,000 per year that equals 50,000 staff needed on day one, and probably more.”

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 28 2020, 05:45 PM

Ah yes, 50,000 extra bureaucrats even though leaving was supposed to lead to a reduction in red tape. I suppose it is vaguely possible that one of the Leave campaigns promises will prove accurate but I won't be holding my breath.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 28 2020, 05:54 PM

Well another way to look at it is that it is 50,000 extra jobs.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 28 2020, 06:00 PM

Any government could create as many useless jobs as they like. They will still be useless jobs.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 28 2020, 06:01 PM

How will checking freight paperwork be a useless job? It'll be a very important job.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 28 2020, 06:03 PM

Because it is paperwork that is totally unnecessary - as has been demonstrated by the fact that we have been doing perfectly well without it for years.

Posted by: *CENSORED* Feb 28 2020, 06:09 PM

Besides these jobs require commute or relocation. Good luck finding thousands of people to move to Dover

Yay for extra budget money (hi taxpayers) to go towards this useless endeavour.

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Feb 28 2020, 09:38 PM

We f***ing told you. Jeeezus.

Posted by: *Tim Feb 29 2020, 10:51 AM

This thread is gonna be an endless cycle of chris posting an article about brexit that shows it's not gonna be as promised and the rest of buzzjack collectively sighing and saying "I told you so"

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 29 2020, 01:55 PM

No-one, even the so called experts, will know what it's like until next January, unless they have a crystal ball. Employing 50,000 extra border people isn't a bad thing. It's a necessity now but as Sueady said, wasn't needed when we were in the EU. Of course things are going to be different. We've left the EU so there will be fundamental changes.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 29 2020, 02:12 PM

Yes, but the changes won't be good. What is good for manufacturers about parts being held up at the border for hours rather than just rolling off the ferry? What is good about perishable items such as fruit being delayed in the same way?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 29 2020, 02:18 PM

I agree about fruit and vegetables when supermarkets are perhaps waiting for them, but hopefully there won't be delays of hours on end. Let's think positively instead of always being negative. There may be teething problems on first Jan. No-one, not even me, is denying that but I'm still convinced the advantages of regaining our Sovereignty will outway the negative effects.

Posted by: *Tim Feb 29 2020, 02:34 PM

It is a bad thing when there's already shortages of employers in certain areas, there is not enough time to properly train 50k new employers.


Or instead of thinking positive we could be realistic or in your words negative

Posted by: Suedehead2 Feb 29 2020, 03:17 PM

As you've been told umpteen times before, we never lost our sovereignty. We're still waiting for a single example of something we've been forced to do against the will of the government of the day.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Feb 29 2020, 03:38 PM

Can we put a filter on the S word please? Change it to “magic beans” perhaps? Coz let’s be real that’s basically what it’s equivalent to

Posted by: Crazy Chris Feb 29 2020, 04:30 PM

A filter on Silas? No, lol.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Mar 3 2020, 10:02 AM

Who would like to place a bet on the UK using the coronavirus as an excuse for trade talks extending into next year?

Posted by: Steve201 Mar 3 2020, 07:09 PM

Me 🙌, it's already the excuse for poor economic growth!

Posted by: The S***e Mar 4 2020, 06:52 PM

I think the coronavirus and associated economic pressures it is creating means that leaving with no deal at the end of December is getting more and more unlikely, especially if there is a recession caused by coronavirus.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 4 2020, 07:19 PM

No, Boris will just have to extend the transition perioed.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Mar 5 2020, 07:25 AM

That’s why I posed the question. Coronavirus will be used a an excuse for what was going to happen anyway.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Mar 6 2020, 11:43 AM

I would not be opposed to that. Makes 2021 a lot easier for me if we’re still a quasi EU member

Posted by: Envoirment Mar 6 2020, 10:33 PM

I do find it funny reading comments of people expecting the UK to hold to its "red lines". Given the fishing industry accounts for 0.1% of the UK economy, that'll likely be one of the first things to be used as a bargaining chip - especially as the Conservatives have a large majority now.

I do feel we'll get a somewhat soft brexit generally speaking, especially given the current and ongoing economic impact of the corona virus. I expect there'll be an extension blamed on the disruption caused by the virus.

I'm just hoping the 2020s doesn't follow the 2010s to become another lost decade. There really needs to be heavy investment in the infrastructure of the UK, particularly outside of the south east. The start is likely to be rocky given the Brexit/Corona virus situation though.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 14 2020, 11:08 PM

Boris Johnson is adamant the Brexit transition period will close at the end of December, despite the risk of the Covid-19 crisis disrupting negotiations, his spokesman has said.

Face-to-face talks which were to take place in London next week had been called off as a result of the outbreak, with officials exploring possible alternatives, such as video-conferencing.

When Johnson’s spokesman was asked whether the status quo transition period might need to be extended as a result, he said simply: “No”, then added: “In UK law, a request for an extension is not possible”.

When the government passed the EU withdrawal agreement in December, it added a commitment that the transition period would not be lengthened.


Pressed on whether that meant the government was prepared to leave without a trade deal if the negotiations were interrupted by virus prevention measures, the spokesman said: “It will be possible to do the trade talks. Both the UK and the EU are fully aware of the timetable which we’re working towards.”
He said both sides had committed to finding alternative ways to continue the negotiations, and were working closely together to achieve this.

“The discussions can take place using an alternative forum, such as video-conferencing,” he said. “Video-conferencing is something which is used throughout the world, and business.”

The government still expected to share a draft agreement with EU negotiators before the next round of talks, he said.

The negotiations, led by Johnson’s EU adviser, David Frost, involve more than 100 officials. During the transition period, the UK remains subject to EU rules and institutions, and continues to pay into its budget. This is to be replaced at the end of the year with an agreement on the future relationship, including on trade and security.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 14 2020, 11:10 PM

So no extension which imo is right. This has to all be wrapped up on 31st Dec, deal or no deal.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 14 2020, 11:10 PM

He is adamant that he won't.

Posted by: STREAMSTUPIDLOVE Mar 14 2020, 11:15 PM

Leaving aside that bizarre talking to yourself bit, you got 51% of the f***in vote and 20% youth support. Calm the f*** down.

There are way more important things than brexshit, which is a VANITY MINORITY PURSUIT. The end.

Posted by: Klaus Mar 15 2020, 08:13 AM

You just replied to yourself. Keep on trolling.

Posted by: Silas EU Later Mar 15 2020, 08:37 AM

Setting aside the fact that he could quite easily change the f***ing law for a moment. This is the height of stupidity and is short-sighted. All it proves is that they’ve never had any intention of getting a deal at all and it is all about a stealth no deal by the back door after it’s too late for the opposition to stop it.

4.3 million lives hang in the balance. It’s callous.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 09:16 AM

Oops that was a mistake.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 09:20 AM

I am calm. 51% was a majority and we voted to leave. The End.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Mar 15 2020, 11:50 AM

Coronavirus, as I stated above, can be used as an excuse to extend the talks into next year. Alternatively, it can be used as an excuse for everything that goes wrong if we end up without a trade deal. A government whose priority is the best interests of the country would have no difficulty in choosing to extend the talks. A government more obsessed with right-wing ideology might make a different decision.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 03:04 PM

Boris didn't go to Chequers as planned this weekend. He's stayed at N

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 03:04 PM

Boris didn't go to Chequers as planned this weekend. He's stayed at N

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 03:04 PM

Boris didn't go to Chequers as planned this weekend. He's stayed at No.10 and is having meetings today with the Health Secretary who was seen entering this morning and other ministers, and the Chief Medical Officer, before deciding if any more announcements will be made tomorrow.

Posted by: STREAMSTUPIDLOVE Mar 15 2020, 03:48 PM

Not enough for major constitutional change.

The end.

Not enough for 100% of the power and a hard tory brexshit. The end.

You got 37% of the electorate. That's it. Obviously most people weren't bothered about leaving. More people would vote to remain now, so on your bike.

Posted by: 🍆 Mar 15 2020, 04:39 PM

Can you maybe be patient when pressing Add Reply and also use the edit button sometimes? Seeing this is annoying.

(Just an advice - pressing the Preview Post button if Buzzjack is being slow and not loading the reply you just posted helps to see if you actually posted. 99% of the time one press of the button means it was posted. No need to press it multiple times and panic, you're not buying toilet rolls after all)

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 04:40 PM

Okay sorry. I wish people would stop with the loo roll digs.

Posted by: ElectroBoy Mar 15 2020, 04:52 PM

I guess you can use the loo rolls to clean up all the sh!t you post on here

Posted by: T Boy Mar 15 2020, 04:57 PM

I wish you would stop hoarding loo rolls that other people need, but it seems we don’t always get what we want.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 05:00 PM

I have posted a lot of good info here that I've read on other sites too.

I posted the link to the postcode checker to see how many cases in your area and that's the thanks I get.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 05:01 PM

I haven't been to a supermarket since Thursday. I can't dictate to other people I live with can I?


Several DS posters say they can't find any mayonnaise anywhere now.

Posted by: The S***e Mar 15 2020, 06:31 PM

Oh my. I hope he has fun at N.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Mar 15 2020, 06:39 PM

It's probably the first letter of the name of his latest mistress.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Mar 15 2020, 06:42 PM

I'm sure with impending marriage and fatherhood again he'll be a one woman man now.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Mar 15 2020, 06:44 PM

I'm sure that's what his ex-wives thought too.

Posted by: PeaceMob Mar 18 2020, 05:23 PM

I can't see the EU project surviving COVID-19.

EU member countries breaking the single market rules everywhere.

Posted by: *Tim Mar 18 2020, 05:59 PM

That is Schengen for you and I can't see it breaking up a project like this. Every country has always had the right to suspend open borders if needed, that's nothing new

Posted by: Quarantilas Mar 18 2020, 08:27 PM

Brexiteers reacting poorly to the discovery that even Schengen states retain full border control is my new favourite genre of light entertainment.

Posted by: PeaceMob Mar 18 2020, 11:30 PM

Remainers reacting poorly to the discovery that Schengen states retaining full border control is not considered racist is my new favourite genre of light entertainment.

Posted by: STREAMSTUPIDLOVE Mar 19 2020, 12:31 AM

What?? Get out.

Posted by: *Tim Mar 20 2020, 06:22 AM

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here lmao

Especially since we never claimed that it is racist to shut your borders. It is however discrimonatory to put the blame of the mess your country is in on a small group of immigrants, like Brexiteers tend to do

Posted by: 🍆 Mar 20 2020, 07:38 AM

An equivalent of “your mum” response.

I’m with Tim. Confused.

Posted by: I. :II: z Mar 20 2020, 08:08 AM

Cheering on COVID-19 to own the EU libs, what in the world...

Posted by: Harve Mar 20 2020, 10:14 AM

I mean from this I can only ascertain that he is praising Schengen.

Posted by: Quarantilas Apr 16 2020, 03:39 PM

David frost confirmed no extension and the UK would refuse a request from the EU to extend.

There are no words to describe the rage I feel inside.

Posted by: blacksquare Apr 16 2020, 04:01 PM

Not surprising, unfortunately. They'll just point solely to COVID as the reason for any economic fallout — despite there being no worse time for Brexit.

Posted by: Harve May 14 2020, 06:28 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/13/brexit-will-mean-checks-on-goods-crossing-irish-sea-government-admits

While we're occupied with a global pandemic, the UK government have quietly admitted that an economic border will be erected between Northern Ireland and GB, contradicting the many claims in February that there will be no barrier.

Honestly this is very good news. Reneging on the most controversial element of the withdrawal agreement, famously conceded at the last minute after years of bluster, would have brought the whole thing down and made Britain a pariah state. I wasn't sure if the UK gov were kamikaze enough to go through with the threats or, in the bravado of the 2019 election campaign, simply didn't understand what Boris Johnson had agreed with Leo Varadkar in the Wirral last October. Encouraging, at this point, that they will just take the L and go.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 14 2020, 10:55 PM

BREAKING NEWS FROM SKY.

Gove has said the government has "formally confirmed" to the EU that the UK won't extend the transition period.

Posted by: blacksquare Jun 15 2020, 03:08 PM

Excuse me?

Posted by: Harve Jun 15 2020, 03:16 PM

I mean the trade deal is so unambitious at this point that the UK government's intended landing zone and consequences of failure are almost equally disastrous for the UK economy. They can at least be open about their lack of effort in order to get Brexiteer clout.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jun 15 2020, 03:35 PM

Imma go ahead and work out who in the Bundestag I need to spam with daily emails about the implementation of the residence registration of the withdrawal agreement into domestic law.

How is your system doing guys? I’ve registered with the city but everything is on hold until the laws pass at the Bundestag.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 15 2020, 03:48 PM

I guess this is what John McDonnell would refer to as 'shit or bust'.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 15 2020, 04:27 PM

And Westminster have refused to discuss this with Sturgeon and Drakeford which is as rotten as we’ve come to expect.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 15 2020, 04:55 PM

The government has said that they want to phase in extra border checks if there is no deal. However, that may be judged to be against WTO rules. Cue outrage from Tories who have been saying how wonderful trade under WTO rules would be

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 27 2020, 05:19 PM

DELETED. Double post.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 27 2020, 07:22 PM

From Sky News.

Downing Street has confirmed that Mr Johnson has hammered home that the UK is prepared to leave on "Australia terms" if an agreement cannot be reached between Britain and the EU.

It came during a telephone conversation on Saturday with Polish prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki.

Australia has no bespoke trade deal, but a series of mini-deals in place - but some critics describe the proposals as the same as a no-deal Brexit.

A Number 10 spokeswoman, issuing a readout of a phone discussion with Mr Morawiecki, said: "On the UK's future relationship with the EU, the Prime Minister welcomed the agreement on both sides to an intensified process of negotiations in July.


"He said the UK would negotiate constructively but equally would be ready to leave the transition period on Australia terms if agreement could not be reached."

This comes after Angela Merkel supposedly angered Boris by saying "The UK will pay dearly for leaving the EU"

Now that to me was inflammatory and unnecessary language and I don't blame Boris for being angry.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 28 2020, 12:49 PM

I don’t care if Boris is angry. He never seems bothered when the UK are angry with him.

Posted by: Oliver Jun 28 2020, 12:58 PM

Why should they try and please us when the country basically told them to f*** off in 2016? Honestly I don’t understand your logic at all sometimes Chris!

Posted by: Jester Jun 28 2020, 01:05 PM

Angela is right, Chris.

Poor inflamed Boris

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 28 2020, 02:25 PM

So don't you think saying we'll pay dearly, during what's been described as frail trade deal talks is inflammatory? She knows that would rile any world leader but yet still said it. Nothing to do with my liking of Boris either, it's just not the right thing to say. She's too big for her own boots.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 28 2020, 02:36 PM

Well maybe not please us but both sides need a trade deal so a bit of nice friendly talk and co-operation wouldn't go amiss. Boris today is said to be furious with her remark and on the points of just walking away but others have pleaded with him not to do so yet. Don't think he likes her and vice-versa.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 28 2020, 03:53 PM

We need a deal far more than the EU do.

Posted by: Jester Jun 28 2020, 04:11 PM

Maybe she’s trying to shock the tories into realising that we will pay dearly if they continue down the road to economic suicide?

Though they won’t listen of course.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 28 2020, 04:11 PM

She’s basically trying to get Boris to actually work for a deal so that he won’t regret what happens when we crash out with no deal. Unfortunately it’s deaf ears, because we will be the ones that suffer whilst Boris and his mates will make money off our suffering.

Posted by: jakee Jun 28 2020, 04:15 PM

wants to get a reaction out of you

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 28 2020, 04:18 PM

Yes she want to get a reaction out of Boris alright. Hope it's not that he walks away though. He should try and stay calm despite the abuse hurled at him.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 28 2020, 04:22 PM

Yes I know that as they can all trade with each other, without us.

Merkel should remember too that it was the public via a referendum who voted to leave the EU and not the Government. They're just putting in to practice people's wishes.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 28 2020, 04:35 PM

And Johnson should remember that there was only a narrow majority for Leave in an advisory referendum. He should also bear in mind that the idea of leaving without a trade deal was considered to be so ridiculous that it didn't merit discussion in the campaign. The evidence that leaving without a deal represents "the people's wishes" is non-existent.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jun 28 2020, 04:42 PM

No leader with a brain cell would kowtow to the wishes of a smaller third party, especially an obstinate one leaving the block but demanding for all of the perks without what it perceives as drawbacks but are in fact the necessary requirements to under pin a economic block of 27 independent countries


Honestly Chris. Read a f***ing book for Christ sake.

Posted by: Jester Jun 28 2020, 04:42 PM

That had nothing to do with the governments position on a deal

Posted by: T Boy Jun 28 2020, 04:42 PM

What a shame the people won’t get a say on whether we leave without a deal or not. What are you actually hoping to get out of this?

Posted by: jakee Jun 28 2020, 04:44 PM

nasty vile person

Posted by: jakee Jun 28 2020, 04:44 PM

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF CHRIS AS A PERSON?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 28 2020, 04:46 PM

As a leaver I hope we get a decent deal with the EU. It can be achieved if everyone stays calm but Merkel's one line didn't help and am actually gobsmacked that none of you agree it was inflammatory.

Posted by: T Boy Jun 28 2020, 04:46 PM

To be honest his attitude is inflammatory and I’m angry. These just aren’t the right things to say. He’s too big for his boots.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jun 28 2020, 04:50 PM

LOL. I detect a bit of sarcasm there. Okay Merkel was right in what she says then and everyone on all the newspaper sites berating her and saying she's inflaming things, thousands of people, are wrong.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jun 28 2020, 05:01 PM

Yes they are. They’re playing to gullible dipshits in England who gobble up everything they say without question.


Her comments haven’t even registered in germany, because the entire continent agrees with her

Posted by: Klaus Jun 28 2020, 05:48 PM

The Tories mentioned we had an oven ready deal about 100,000 times and were therefore elected on this basis so not sure what the issue is

Posted by: T Boy Jun 28 2020, 05:54 PM

They very well could be, don’t you consider that? Or do you just go round looking for people who agree with you all the time?

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jun 29 2020, 10:00 PM

Maybe stop looking at it from one side all the time and learn to appreciate how the EU are looking at the negotiations, which at the moment is probably in despair.

Chris: We have left the EU - you have got what you wanted - the referendum and its mandate have now been enacted so could you please drop the constant oblique referencing to it as though it hasn't been? It's just as painful and irritating as people saying it was 'advisory' and 'the majority want to remain now'.

We are no longer in the EU. Fact.

We could either re-join, or stay out ... those are the options. "The People's" wishes on what now will be a trading relationship with the EU are not, as far as I'm aware, known. So the debate is now about the nature of that relationship, and the arguments about the different possibilities are all perfectly valid but what is increasingly clear to me is that the Brexiteers, who have taken over Government, the most incompetent Cabinet of the past century (or as Lord Sumption would say 'You have to go back to the early 1930s to find a British Cabinet as devoid of talent as this one') never really had a plan beyond leaving and yet continuing to blame everything that is wrong on the EU, including apparently their stance in a negotiation where they HAVE to protect their own interests.

Frankly a bizarre and closeminded viewpoint Chris which sadly does not surprise me. You can't continue to bellow 'but 17.4 million people' constantly at everything you hear that you don't like. Grow up.

Posted by: Oliver Jun 30 2020, 10:59 PM

So apparently I’ve read on my Facebook that it’s now passed 11pm and therefore the transisition period can no longer be extended beyond 31st December? Is this correct as I’ve seen nothing anywhere else and thought this would have been bigger news?

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 1 2020, 05:40 AM

Yes, you're right - the transition period is due to end on 31 December 2020 unless agreed by both the EU and the UK by 30th June whereby it could be extended by up to 2 years. I think the hope from the UK government is that forcing the EU into a tight deadline might shift their negotiating position, but I would point out that doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Also you might have thought a global pandemic would be good enough reason to want to extend negotiations and avoid a 'No Deal' but apparently not.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 1 2020, 06:32 AM

Both sides need to work flat out now to get a good trade deal and that includes Boris. He needs to understand that there may be compromises just as the EU must. I heard yesterday that we could end up doing no trade whatsoever with the EU from Jan. 1st. It's as serious as that.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 1 2020, 07:01 AM

Feeling very glad I booked my flight home after Xmas for Dec 28. Had a feeling this would be the outcome. Currently trying to persuade my family to come back to Germany with me so they can avoid the utter chaos that will erupt at the start of 2021.

This is 100% to sneak a no deal under the radar of corona. They think they’re being so sly and sneaky but they’re as transparent as clingfilm

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 1 2020, 09:35 AM

EVERYONE on ALL the newspaper sites!!1! that's THOUSANDS of BILLIONS of people!!!1

From a purely mathematical point of view, extrapolating 1 opinion you might've read on The S*n to 1000s of other people is not even close to being a valid point in any way whatsoever. Brush up on your maths skills and give us FACTS. Why won't you stop hiding behind other people? Cowardly buffoon.

Posted by: Izzy Jul 1 2020, 09:43 AM

Still, on the bright side, our immigration system is now based on personal excellence which will certainly work to get the right kind of people, the good ones as the ones coming in, and Brits applying for jobs outside of the UK https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/job-interviews-british-citizens-europe-brexit-a9593066.htmland why would that matter anyway, the Union is the greatest and most stable country now we're free of the EU's mess, who'd want to leave?

(or, well, in my case, now I'm definitely not coming back for the forseeable)

Posted by: Harve Jul 1 2020, 09:54 AM

Nor me.

I'm also gonna be coming back to France after Christmas before 31st December because I won't have a carte de séjour by then and getting 'tourist' stamped in my passport by the French border from January 1st will be a death knell for my life here.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 1 2020, 01:37 PM

So it will take hard work? Boris just won’t bother then. And don’t pretend having no trade with the EU is a worry for you, you won’t concerned at all when you voted for this.

Posted by: *Tim Jul 1 2020, 04:49 PM

I mean he also stated several times that he wanted out no matter what. Now that, after several warnings by us, the time might be here a 180 has been done.

It's ridiculous to be honest

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 1 2020, 06:26 PM

I’ll third this! (he types from Scotland)

I agree. Christmas at home is nice but being safely in the EU before the end of this year is the single most important thing

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 5 2020, 02:01 PM

I see the Chancellor's being urged by the CBI, Labour, many charities and many others to give ever adult in the UK £500 and every child £250 to kick-start the economy. There'd just be 2 rules. Can't be used online or on food. It's to stimulate the High St. mainly and small businesses. BRING IT ON. Great idea. Come on Rishi.

Posted by: Envoirment Jul 5 2020, 02:12 PM

I don't see how they could enforce those rules. On the plus side, if people were to get that much money I hope a lot of people would use it to pay off their debts and such.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 5 2020, 02:22 PM

Nah they'd probably spend it on booze or something.

Surely easy to say it can't be used online. Don't give any code to enter.

They should say no loo rolls either.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 5 2020, 03:46 PM

Well I’m still not intending to go to a non food shop any time soon so I’d probably just add the money to my savings.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 5 2020, 03:50 PM

I think the idea is that the money would be in the form of time-limited vouchers that can only be spent in certain types of outlet. The intention is that the money should be spent and not added to savings.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 5 2020, 03:53 PM

In that case, I can’t see how I’d spend the money. Sure I could buy something extravagant but I really don’t want to have to go to shops before I’m comfortable.

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Jul 5 2020, 03:53 PM

Shows a society addicted to capitalism imo.

Yes, be good if it could be used for debts.

Seems the government keeps getting on the verge of realising the best thing for society is for benefits to be generous and easily accessible because that will keep the economy going, but then not quite making the connection. As someone who's been in that position, if you had more money, you would simply put it straight back out into the local economy again where it would be collected again through VAT and taxes, because it wouldn't be enough to save but would be enough to make your existence more pleasant.

Would you agree, Chris? That if the ESA (?) you got was say £100 more a month, you'd probably spend it on things you wanted or things to make life more enjoyable, instead of squirrelling it away somewhere?

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 5 2020, 10:09 PM

I firmly believe that there should be economic stimulus but it should be in two forms:


- 5x £20 vouchers redeemable at any restaurant for eat in or take out. - support the hospitality industry that has been extremely heavily hit. Gov automatically collects 1/6th of this back in VAT. Rest enters the economy at the hands of low paid workers.

- one time stimulus cheque of £1000 - Anyone on 40% rate at its newly raised threshold gets nowt. Anyone on 30k+ gets 500 instead. Lower the wage the more likely it will re-enter the economy quickly through essential purchases. Some will use it to pay off debts (good as then they have more free cash to spend), some may support tourism industry or hospitality. And yes some will go and buy a big tv. So what. It’s all spending at business that employ low paid workers, it keeps these people employed and paying tax. Gov collects VAT. All round wins. Anyone earning a serious sum of cash would save and not spend and so it’s just pissing money up the wall.


Measures to stimulate the economy should be aimed at people on the average wage and below. They’re the ones who will use the cash to actually stimulate the economy instead of stimulating a bank in the caymans

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 5 2020, 11:14 PM

Yes you're right I would.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 6 2020, 07:49 PM

Sounds like a Kevin Bridges joke that if benefits were 1000 quid a week that would get the economy booming people Turing up to the job centre in Taxis and leaving them running 😂

Posted by: blacksquare Jul 9 2020, 12:59 PM

Things must be bad if Liz Truss — of all people — is worried. It's almost as if people haven't been predicting this for years.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 9 2020, 03:15 PM

It’s almost as if we could do with another 24 months of an implementation period to ensure everything is fully in place...

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 9 2020, 09:03 PM

Shhh...Don't give them ideas. We've waited long enough to leave the EU and now it's finally happening we can't have any more delays or extensions. Any problems can be ironed out in January. It's like anything in life really, there are unforeseen snags with everything usually but they get ironed out in the end. Think positive.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 10 2020, 10:02 AM

We left the EU on 31st January 2020 at 11pm, get over it.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 10 2020, 10:03 AM

Silas’s point was these snags were not unforeseen.

Anyway we’ve been out of the EU almost 6 months, isn’t it everything you always wanted?

Posted by: Klaus Jul 10 2020, 10:51 AM

I’m aware I’m talking to a brick wall but the idea that someone who has been wanting to go on holiday for a few years and has been waiting for a plane to be built in order to do this, would still go on the plane despite it not being ready to fly because they can sort out the problems whilst in the air is ludicrous

Posted by: Tawdry Hepburn Jul 10 2020, 10:54 AM

So sick of hearing you say this it's unreal.

Posted by: blacksquare Jul 10 2020, 11:06 AM

We have left. That isn't changing.

It's about getting it right — during a pandemic and economic crash — rather than making it unnecessarily worse.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 10 2020, 11:18 AM

I'm not sure how many people here read Chris Grey's weekly Brexit Blog (https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/) but with little actually changing or taking place in the negotiations he discusses in this week's edition the increasing likelihood of the breakup of the UK in the coming decade. United we ain't, even interest in Welsh independence has soared from literally near zero to 33%.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 10 2020, 12:04 PM

I think Wales will always rely on England due to how small it is but Scotland and civil war in Ireland are likely getting a lot closer no doubt, thanks a lot English MPs - maybe it's like Irish political reps from annationalist view point always thought the act of union wasn't in Irish interests??

I'm still awaiting the first dup/loyalist picket at the future border controls at ports in NI and them all failing totally to see the irony of it all.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 10 2020, 12:40 PM

People always say that about Wales but there are many countries smaller than Wales that prosper independently. People haven’t previously been that bothered about Welsh independence and a lot of that is to do with English families settling across the border. But this pandemic has been really testing and Wales have handled things better than England and this is being noted. The devolved government, whilst not perfect, is showing what it can do. When Scotland and NI leave the union then Wales will be asking ‘why not us too?’ It’s not going to happen in the near future but if Tory governments keep getting voted into Westminster then it will become more and more likely.

Posted by: Harve Jul 10 2020, 01:51 PM

I don't think Wales' size or population is really a problem, but much of the country is uniquely interlinked with England's economy: North East Wales has no cities of its own* and is closer to Chester, Liverpool and Manchester than it is to Cardiff. It doesn't mean that Wales can't be independent but it does mean that the performance of the country's economy will be forever dependent on England's economy. Of course, in an ideal world, an independent country would retain close economic links with its neighbours, but then again, in an ideal world, Brexit wouldn't have happened).

Whereas Scotland is bigger, yes, but it's also geographically different, with both sides of the England-Scotland border being fairly rural, no real cross-border agglomerations to speak of and the economy centred on the Central Belt, which is quite separate to England.

I'm pretty sure my view on this is coloured by my hatred for nearby Geneva, which is cut off from the rest of Switzerland and surrounded on 3 sides by French commuter towns and is rather dysfunctional despite centuries of cooperative diplomatic relations. Do better than France and Switzerland pls.

*St Asaph is a meme city.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 10 2020, 04:01 PM

Flintshire/Wrexham is also rather full of workers from Liverpool/Chester/The Wirral that want cheap housing. My parents are both from Chester and half our family live or have at points lived in North Wales instead of Cheshire. Frontier workers are fairly normal in a lot of Europe but the numbers along the Anglo-Scots border is fairly wee, especially in comparison to the Anglo-Welsh one.



@Chris. Big slow clap for you for missing the point entirely. We’re out the EU. Why in such a rush to put up barriers we have no means of enforcing?? It’s f***ing stupid. If no deal is your chosen belief then whatever (personally i think anyone who thinks it’s a sound and viable strategy is a f***ing moron, but that is also my general view of brexiteers) but surely anyone who wants that wants to have the infrastructure in place for it before we do it. This is just going to be an unmitigated disaster.



Am tempted to raffle off my spare room amongst friends and family who want to avoid being in the UK for January’s food shortages

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 10 2020, 04:41 PM

Nah, just let me use it for a few weeks. It'll give me the chance to resurrect my German.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 10 2020, 05:46 PM

Yes it is. Of course there'll be minor problems at ports etc at first. Anyone with a brain understands that but am sure the Government will be able to sort things out pretty quickly.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 10 2020, 07:23 PM

€50 a ticket to be entered into the prize draw. Entries close 31/8. Entries received after this date may still be charged but won’t count. For full Ts&Cs see our website www.getmethef***awayfromanodealbrexit.freescotland.de

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 10 2020, 09:03 PM

So what have you gained from it so far?

Posted by: T Boy Jul 10 2020, 09:11 PM

Anyone with a brain has observed the government these last few months and realised that they can’t do ‘sort out’ or ‘quickly’.

Posted by: Envoirment Jul 11 2020, 05:41 PM

The same government that awarded a ferry contract to a company that had no ferries?

Posted by: Jester Jul 11 2020, 06:05 PM

What evidence do you have that the current government can sort anything out quickly? (and I mean competently).

Asking seriously, I am curious what you base your delusions on.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 11 2020, 09:36 PM

They will produce a world beating Brexit deal!!

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 12 2020, 09:42 AM

All those questions but no Chris to answer them. I wonder why~

Posted by: T Boy Jul 12 2020, 12:05 PM

He probably thinks his silence is the will of the people and democracy must be respected.

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 12 2020, 12:32 PM

Or, more likely, he's just out of his depth. As usual.

Posted by: blacksquare Jul 12 2020, 01:46 PM

Half a billion on a lorry park in Kent. Money well spent.

Posted by: blacksquare Jul 13 2020, 12:42 PM

59.4% of Ashford voted for Brexit. Did people really think there would be no repercussions?

Posted by: Iz~ Jul 13 2020, 02:24 PM

Ah, Kent turning into an asphalt lorry park, guess it's what the people voted for.

This would have been mitigated so much if Britain were even just staying in the customs union. And we're leaving that because... ideological purity? what?

Posted by: T Boy Jul 13 2020, 02:28 PM

Where is Chris to answer these questions?

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 13 2020, 02:51 PM

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 13 2020, 03:20 PM

Here I am like the proverbial bad penny. You see you do miss me when I'm busy and don't post.

I'll just say this. No-one knows WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY what will happen next January. Of course I don't want problems like long lorry tail-backs, food shortages and panic buying. Nobody does. The latter, unfortunately, is tipped to happen in December though so we intend to start now stock--piling more loo rolls and canned foods.

Posted by: Rooney Jul 13 2020, 03:20 PM

It's what I have been saying for 2 years - people lived in a fantasy world and didn't have any idea what they were voting for as they don't understand how the world operates. I can just imagine it now "This isn't the Brexit we voted for!!!".

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 13 2020, 03:44 PM

Surveys since 2016 have shown that most people, especially in poorer parts of the country, voted to stop EU residents coming in to the UK. Simple as that. They didn't consider anything else.

I wish Michael would end his postal strike as I miss his input here even though we disagree on everything.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 13 2020, 03:56 PM

But now that you have time to consider all the bad stuff happening, are you still happy you voted out. Please give reasons for your answers.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 13 2020, 04:00 PM

Yes of course. I don't regret voting out at all. I think we can do as well, if not better for ourselves, outside the EU. We don't know that much if any bad stuff will happen. It's all speculation at the moment.

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 13 2020, 04:26 PM

goodness gracious

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 13 2020, 04:27 PM

*a comet heads directly towards the earth*
NASA: We don't know that much if any bad stuff will happen. It's all speculation at the moment.

Posted by: Harve Jul 13 2020, 04:32 PM

We know with absolute certainty that Britons will have lost their right to live and work on the continent and even going on holiday will be more expensive due to the loss of EHIC. We know with absolute certainty that trade between Britain, its neighbours and largest trading bloc in the world will be more difficult, which will have innumerable knock-on effects.

This is all bad stuff. It is not speculation.

Posted by: Iz~ Jul 13 2020, 04:34 PM

Oh, I forgot to reveal all of your posts. That's a contradiction. 'We are unknowing of anything in the future so I don't regret voting out but I believe the bad forecasts enough to be stockpiling for myself'.

I thought there were only supposed to be considerable upsides.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 13 2020, 04:41 PM

At least Chris can keep all the foreigners out though. Oh wait.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 13 2020, 04:50 PM

Remember it's not just about me. I wasn't the only one to vote out.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 13 2020, 05:13 PM

No but you did vote out and everything going on is a direct consequence of your action whether you can take responsibility for that or not.

I won’t be happy when things go tits up next year and you don’t admit you were wrong.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 13 2020, 05:13 PM

I'm not sure how to take this point, should the general public not be allowed to vote in say a general election then because 'they don't know how the world works'? Or just people educated to a certain level who may or may not have an idea how things be work?

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 13 2020, 05:16 PM

It's not just the people who voted out who are at fault surely there's a number of things which led us to where we got to in 2016 - including the 2008 financial crisis, the MPs expenses scandal, the single European act 1986, the Marsctrict treat 1992, the Lisbon treaty 2009, the expansion of the EU to include many new Eastern European countries in 2004 and many other factors.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 13 2020, 05:30 PM

Absolutely categorically incorrect. You break it you buy it. Every Brexit voter and those who lead the charge, and every single one of them, has complete and full ownership of every single f*** up and miss step and lorry queue and empty shelf and wrongfully deported EU national.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 13 2020, 05:35 PM

Nonsense people have a right to a say in the future direction of their country and it's up to the government to put in place measures to ensure this occurs.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 13 2020, 05:36 PM

They then voted this shower of useless charlatans into power. Brexiteers own this mess in its entirety from start to f***ing finish and our eventual rejoining on lesser terms

Posted by: Rooney Jul 13 2020, 05:38 PM

Of course everyone should be allowed a vote. The point was more about the idea of Brexit, who quite frankly were living in a fantasy world. How many divorces run smoothly? Absolutely zero unless you agree on all the points.

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 13 2020, 05:51 PM

2021 Boris/Leavers: it’s all remainers fault they didn’t vote in higher numbers to keep us in the EU!! How were we supposed to know?!

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 13 2020, 09:58 PM

Of course but that doesn't mean that Brexit cannot or shouldn't happen

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 13 2020, 10:39 PM

This is very worrying.

Revealed: The true scale of London's economic meltdown as capital faces crisis not seen for generations

An Evening Standard investigation: Saving Central London

• 50,000 West End jobs at risk
• 88% of people are uncomfortable using public transport
• 96% drop in foreign bookings to the UK for July
• 11 London branches of Pret shut down
• Just 7,000 out of 120,000 back at work in Canary Whar

Central London is facing the biggest economic crisis in generations with tens of thousands of jobs and hundreds of businesses at risk of being wiped out in Britain’s most vibrant economic powerhouse.

Normally heaving streets from Mayfair in the west to Docklands in the east have been left virtually deserted by a devastating double whammy of “no shows” from commuters and high spending tourists.

An Evening Standard investigation has unearthed the true scale of the crisis.

Alarmed business leaders predict that 50,000 jobs in the vulnerable retail, tourism and hospitality sectors could disappear in the West End alone this year with total spending down by half — a loss of revenue of about £5 billion — as a direct result of the coronavirus lockdown.

Nickie Aiken, Conservative MP for the Cities of London and Westminster, said: “Central London is usually first out of the traps after of a recession. But the conversations I’m having suggest this time it will be one of the last regions to recover — and that’s important because it is the engine of the whole UK economy.”

Posted by: blacksquare Jul 14 2020, 08:20 AM

Very worrying?

We don't know that much, if any, bad stuff will happen. It's all speculation at the moment.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 14 2020, 09:01 AM

The white collar firms that populate canary warf et al are all starting to look at lay-offs. Deloitte, globally, are starting lay-offs. Big4 firms tend to be a pretty good measure of the wider white collar economy in London as they literally depend on the sector for non-audit revenues. Big companies are looking to shed costs wherever possible.


Adding a no deal Brexit to this mess just is so reckless and unforgivable. This will kill people.

Posted by: Rooney Jul 14 2020, 10:58 AM

Many businesses the big 4 support will have gone under or will be in the process of restructing and thus needing less support, so it's no surprise really.

We've got the economic fallout from Covid, which in turn will likely see an increase in crime and social problems. As well as that we have the undiscovered cost of Covid through people not being able to attend hospital for medical appointments.. it's completely crazy. I don't think there's any way any country across the world can win as by making one choice you sacrifice another.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 14 2020, 12:47 PM

No one is disputing that? But it is perfectly fair for us to hold those that lead us down this path to account.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 14 2020, 01:19 PM

Of course but to not understand how we got to this point and what made Brexit so attractive to not a minority but the majority of the British public is very Important imo.

Also many do still dispute its legitimacy. Only today I got a PM saying it wasn't legitimate.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 14 2020, 02:27 PM

I’m guessing the massive lies and not so casual racism played quite a big part.

Unfortunately, I’m having rights stripped from me through no fault of my own. I’m done understanding why people voted for this, they now need to understand what they’ve done and own it.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 14 2020, 03:53 PM

It’s not a majority of the public tho. It’s a majority of the votes counted on the 23rd of June. Wasn’t even a majority of the registered electorate. Given the closeness of the vote and that repeatedly in the campaign every single representative of the Brexit side said we’d never leave the customs union or the single market - what is happening now is wholly on those enacting this ridiculous hard and damaging split, and the f***ing idiots without two functioning brain cells who just saw “no morez immigruntz” and voted for it thinking it would magically solve all of the problems that have heehaw to do with the EU or with immigrants and everything to do with the austerity and ideology of the very people they fell into line behind.


No absolving of liability at all. Every Brexit voter owns the mess their uninformed and racist and thick selves voted for.


This isn’t a hill you want to die on Steve

Posted by: Envoirment Jul 14 2020, 04:20 PM

From what I remember, George Osbourne/David Cameron (can't rememeber which - perhaps both) said a vote to leave was a vote to leave the single market. That was tossed aside as "project fear" but that's now become project reality.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 14 2020, 04:30 PM

Both did, but they were on the remain side. A lot more people said it repeatedly and as you say we’re drowned out as project fear.


Project reality indeed

Posted by: dandy* Jul 14 2020, 04:34 PM

We're going to need to review the benefits system, no way we can afford to support so many people not working. Probably best to scrap it.

Posted by: Rooney Jul 14 2020, 04:40 PM

I think in the autumn budget they might scrap NI charges for new hires. I suppose the one good thing about Brexit, is at least companies won't be as tempted to tap in to the European visa-less restrictions which might help with some unemployment issues and the temptation to look elsewhere for talent.

Posted by: dandy* Jul 14 2020, 04:51 PM

On Chris' post above, I'd be very surprised if only 7000 of 120000 are back at work in Canary Wharf. There may only be 7000 back at the site itself but I'd imagine the nature of most jobs there would mean that the vast majority of the others are working from home.

The Pret stat isn't particularly useful either, 14 opened in the past year so we're still up 3 year on year - and there's still hundreds left!



Re Rooney's post, it will be interesting to see if we do end up with more talented people from the UK being employed. I know in many areas where I work, we don't employ people from outside the UK because they're cheaper, it's just that we don't really have any viable UK alternatives as the skill sets simply aren't there.

Posted by: Rooney Jul 14 2020, 05:02 PM

There's a mass market, especially with R&D where the skills are needed for lots of UK businesses but from an Academic standpoint we lack behind Europe, especially in Packaging, Sensory, Product Development, Project Management. All key areas which businesses need, but we don't study it in the UK so how can you expect people to have the right skills needed. The problem is to build that skills gap it's longer term.

Likewise a lot of these gaps can be plugged by encouraging people to take early retirement etc. - but I think after this economic crash we're probably on the last generation of people that had final salary pensions, so unless you work in the public sector there's going to be a huge hole the next time we have an economic crash as those people 50+ won't be able to afford to retire.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 14 2020, 08:16 PM

All my point is is that it's now been accepted no matter how many bring up the issues of legitimacy. Many people have seen their towns change a lot over the past 30 years and the British media running stories highlighting the ridiculous laws the Eu passed on a daily basis most likely helped the pro Brexit vote.

I didn't vote for Brexit but I'm a realist and will not fight a battle you can't win.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 14 2020, 08:42 PM

And, of course, many of those laws were total fabrications with one B Johnson being one of the most enthusiastic fabricators.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 14 2020, 08:49 PM

And once again, I have said nothing about not accepting Brexit. I can accept it, still not be happy about it and still hold people to account over the outcome.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 14 2020, 09:03 PM

Just a polite reminder of the forum rules and to keep on-topic please.

This thread is mainly for discussing the (admittedly moribund) discussions on the UK's future relationship with the EU.

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 15 2020, 12:23 PM

And I always thought the one about the straight bananas was def true

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 15 2020, 12:25 PM

Well true tbf, however my point was that it's not the people who voted for Brexit who are at fault. Fire away at Boris though

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 20 2020, 07:05 PM

Don't worry folks. Dominic 'I hadn't quite understood how reliant UK trade in goods is on the Dover-Calais crossing' Raab has struck gold. A trade deal negotiation with the Principality of Liechtenstein.

Let's get going (out of here).

False teeth - let's go!!!

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 20 2020, 07:20 PM

Well one of the best known phrases is, Every Little Helps.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 20 2020, 07:24 PM

And they don't come much smaller than Liechstenstein.

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 20 2020, 07:49 PM

Yes I’m sure that Liechtenstein will adequately replace our trade with the worlds largest economy.


EU single market is the only think larger than the Chinese economy. Anyone who thinks leaving that is a good idea is an eejit

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 20 2020, 08:38 PM

I love how you've picked the smallest country out of the four Raab mentioned to moan about. What about Norway and Switzerland? Some good cheese deals maybe?

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 20 2020, 09:36 PM

He was the one who put it in a tweet and deemed it significant Chris.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jul 20 2020, 09:37 PM

But this is what the trade secretary thinks about the idea of importing cheese...

Posted by: blacksquare Jul 20 2020, 10:17 PM

Taking back control!

Posted by: Quarantilas Jul 21 2020, 05:58 AM

....to sell it straight to the yanks for pennies on the pound

Posted by: Iz~ Jul 21 2020, 06:02 AM

Whipping your MPs into voting against protecting the NHS?

It's everything people who don't vote Conservative have been warning about - you should not believe them when they say the NHS is off the table, because now it's very much on it.

Posted by: n'tAlice Jul 21 2020, 11:32 AM

Why have a variety of products if you can just buy expensive cheese

Posted by: Steve201 Jul 21 2020, 01:05 PM

Interesting to see Starmers questions to the pm tomorrow!

Posted by: T Boy Jul 21 2020, 04:26 PM

This is horrifying. But it was labelled as scaremongering 8 months ago. People said this would happen and others still voted for this government.

Posted by: Rooney Jul 21 2020, 04:27 PM

Agreed. It's plain as it comes that the NHS is going to be on the table when we negotiate a trade deal with the USA.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Jul 21 2020, 04:37 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Any party that sells off the NHS would be committing political suicide.

Posted by: T Boy Jul 21 2020, 04:43 PM

Would it be though? You’d have thought this government would have killed themselves politically several times by now but they’re still polling ok. I wouldn’t put anything past these openly dishonest incompetent thickos.

Posted by: *Tim Jul 21 2020, 04:44 PM

It might be that, but after you sell off the NHS, there's vitually no way to get it back is there?

Posted by: Rooney Jul 21 2020, 04:47 PM

They won't sell it off as in give it to the Americans. But they will sell the supply chain e.g. for their overinflated pharmaceuticals.

To the general public they don't really see a difference, but from an operation point we have no control over the vendor and our public funded money is not getting any good value.

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Jul 21 2020, 05:08 PM

Unless, presumably, they do what the Tories have been doing for years: doing one thing in actuality, while claiming to do something completely different or the opposite.

See: defunding the NHS while claiming to be putting 'more money than ever' in, cutting nurses and firefighters' wages while claiming to be generous, cutting schools' funding while claiming to be putting more money into schools - even, as you yourself have experienced, making it harder to access benefits without being challenged every few years to see if you're still eligible, while claiming our benefits system is 'world-leading'.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Aug 4 2020, 08:29 PM

Iain Duncan Smith has re-emerged from his coffin and is complaining about the details of the Withdrawal Agreement. That would be the Withdrawal Agreement he voted for. That would be the Withdrawal Agreement he wanted to be rushed through parliament with the minimum of scrutiny. No doubt he still sticks to the line that Leave voters knew what they were voting for even though he didn't.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Aug 29 2020, 11:03 AM

In its latest act of sheer lunacy, the UK is now trying to renegotiate the deal it signed last October. After all, it's not as if we will look at all untrustworthy by doing that, is it?

The treaty included a continuation of the protected status of names such as champagne Parma ham and feta cheese. The UK wants to end that so that, for example, English makers of sparkling wine can call their product champagne. However, they want products such as Stilton cheese, cornish pasties and Melton Mowbray pork pies to retain their protected status within the EU. Perhaps they could explain why they think the EU is likely to agree to that. Do they really expect the French president, for example, to tell his voters that it doesn't matter?

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 3 2020, 08:56 AM

Is... is this right-wing comedy?

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 3 2020, 09:46 AM

A grown ups response

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 3 2020, 09:50 AM

How is this real? Mask off for the countless time again.

Also, he's not even an expert in trade.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 3 2020, 09:59 AM

Feels like an appropriate time to post what is probably the best political speech of the 21st century.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 3 2020, 11:47 AM

It seems like a daft appointment, one of the "jobs for the boys". Is he really an expert on trade? I find it hard to believe.. unless we're hell bent on being trade partners with the other side of the world in exclusivity.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 3 2020, 12:16 PM

He isn't an expert on trade at all.

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 3 2020, 08:39 PM

Things are going well.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 4 2020, 10:36 PM

Boris thinks we'll be okay whatever the outcome and he's said this.

"We’re ready for any eventuality, of course. But we must make sure that people understand that at the end of the year, whatever happens, we are leaving the EU, and leaving the transition period, the implementation period. That is it.

That’s why it is vital that people who have questions, who have queries about what they need to do, get on to our websites, look at what they need to do to prepare, and certainly we will help them.

But we will get through this. It’s absolutely vital that our partners understand that the UK is going to do what we need to do. If we have to have an Australia-style deal, an Australia-style solution, then that is what we will achieve, and we will prosper mightily one way or the other.

They could, of course, be sensible and give us a Canada-style solution, which after all they’ve given Canada, and I hope very much hope that they will, but we’re ready for either eventuality.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 5 2020, 07:36 AM

Do YOU think we'll be okay whatever the outcome?

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 5 2020, 07:52 AM

Yes I do.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 5 2020, 08:12 AM

Perhaps you could list some occasions when Johnson's predictions have been accurate.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 5 2020, 08:27 AM

Please include reasons in your answer with reverting to ‘Boris says we’ll be fine’ or ‘no one has a crystal ball, we don’t know it’ll be bad’.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 10:02 AM

WTO - The only way to go.

The UK have plans ready for our extremely bright future outside the EU project, the EU project does not figure in our future plans at all.

The EU have failed in these negotiations, the UK will get back everything we have given away to the EU project, the EU will end up with nothing from the UK.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 5 2020, 10:07 AM

Please explain

1) What is so wonderful about WTO rules?

2) If they are so wonderful, why is there not a single country that trades entirely under WTO rules?

3) When are the next elections to the WTO? After all, surely you aren't suggesting that we should do what we're told by an organisation that is significantly less democratic than the EU.

4) The EU's objectives in trade talks are about getting the best deal for their members. How have they failed?

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 10:15 AM

The EU mistakenly think the UK will always remain on WTO with everyone and we will come crawling back to their vile EU project. They are wrong. Like I said before, the UK has prepared for this, we will see the results from 2021.

The EU have failed, they will not get anything from the UK anymore. The EU countries put their trust in Barnier, that man has been an absolute failure for them. The UK has made that clear to Barnier, and the UK will be ready to end the talks if Barnier does not get real FAST.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 5 2020, 10:17 AM

if you're Paul Joseph Watson I'll give you 20p.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 10:21 AM

We're in the end game, there will be no October 31st. Or even November like Merkel wanted.

The EU are that arrogant, they thought Boris would be exactly the same as that traitor Theresa May.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 5 2020, 10:22 AM

No answers then. Just like every other Quitter.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 10:23 AM

It's like what Boris said yesterday, the UK will "prosper mightily".

As for the EU project, it's not the UK's problem anymore.

Posted by: Klaus Sep 5 2020, 10:26 AM

OK

Posted by: Harve Sep 5 2020, 11:03 AM

lol

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 5 2020, 11:56 AM

Speechless at the idiocy

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 5 2020, 01:28 PM

[citation very strongly needed]

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 5 2020, 01:47 PM

Faith is a helluva drug but it's not one of the more fun ones.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 5 2020, 01:54 PM

Well by that logic, half of the country are traitors Surprised your posts aren't sponsored by the Brexit Party.

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 5 2020, 02:13 PM

Think the quotes from the Sun are the arguments Chris follows!?

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 5 2020, 02:17 PM

I think Peacemob has started a war ironically 😂

Also I think maybe Vidcapper has returned 😍

Posted by: T Boy Sep 5 2020, 03:14 PM

Peacemob and Vidcapper are separate entities.

I’m happy that Peacemob is happy, if the rest of us could just be that delusional then we’d probably cope better.

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 5 2020, 04:40 PM

Imagine thinking Theresa May, the lifelong by-the-book Tory, is a traitor.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 5 2020, 05:37 PM

Exactly. They thought we'd roll over and cave in to everything they wanted in a trade deal but reckoned without our great tenacious and clever Prime Minister. He's quite prepared for us to leave with No Deal. In fact I think he may prefer it then our hands aren't tied to the EU at all any more.

I see from other forums that people are starting to buy extra loo rolls and tinned and non-perishable foods again, just in case there are delays at the ports in early January. Michael Gove thinks we'll be okay though.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 5 2020, 07:48 PM

The cost of food will go up and there will be delays at the ports. Why do you think the Government are buying lorry parks?

Anyone with a basic grasp of how a supply chain works has been saying this for years, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work it out. And yeah, people should be buying produce as there will likely be product shortages. Most comanpies stockpile enough produce in warehouses for 6 months but Covid has absolutely depleted most stock. You can trust Michael Gove as you want, but I work in the food & beverage industry and I will tell you he is wrong

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 5 2020, 07:51 PM

That would be the Gove who said that no-deal was such a terrible idea that it couldn’t be allowed to happen. Hmm.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 08:00 PM

State aid is at the top of the list of most things the EU is worried about once the UK goes WTO.

The EU don't like it when people tell them NO, it makes them all confused and bewildered. The UK is giving them a lesson on how to treat a child when they're being ridiculous.

Posted by: Klaus Sep 5 2020, 08:04 PM

OK

Posted by: T Boy Sep 5 2020, 08:25 PM

NO

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 5 2020, 08:36 PM

You give them a lesson by threatening to commit an act of gross self harm? OK.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 5 2020, 08:38 PM

Peacemob's assistance about Brexit is a bit like a kid that gets away from their parents for the first ever time for a lads/girls holiday.

Absolutely no existence of any facts and everything links back to their hatred of the EU project.

Posted by: Oliver Sep 5 2020, 09:34 PM

I just think it’s laughable how anyone can say that it was the EU that demanded the UK roll over and accept everything, when it was quite clearly the opposite. I see it all over Twitter every day, people’s hatred of the EU has left them completely blind to reality. Everything, even if it has nothing to do with the EU, is the EU’s fault...

Posted by: Rooney Sep 5 2020, 09:56 PM

I can't agree more. I don't think any of us in this thread thinks the EU was perfect as it certainly isn't. There are a lot of stupid rules, but there are also a lot of excellent ones. It was mutually beneficial. Nothing in the world if perfect. Brexit's happening and we get it, but some of the hardcores (I include Peacemob and Chris in this) have absolutely zero idea about the knock on effects. As always, Brexit will hit the poorest the hardest.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 5 2020, 09:58 PM

My folks have started stock piling. I am keeping a couple of packing boxes to make an emergency UPS shipment if they start to have issues getting anything at the start of next year.

Still working on convincing the folks to spend new year in Germany with me so that things aren't as bad. My sister too if she isn't on placement.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 10:06 PM

Fortune favours the brave. And British people have a very long history of being brave and courageous.

Posted by: Klaus Sep 5 2020, 10:14 PM

British bulldog spirit 🇬🇧 💪🏻 >>>> logic

Posted by: T Boy Sep 5 2020, 10:15 PM

Yeah let’s purposefully make things worse for us than they needed to be because we’re British and brave and so much better than anyone else

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 10:24 PM

I never said I thought the British people are better than everyone else. But that doesn't take away what the UK has achieved and can achieve in the future. The UK is so much more than the EU project, the City of London alone could bring down the EU project if they really wanted to.

There are many, many great countries around the world that don't need this EU project, the UK can be a part of that world again. This is where the UK truly belongs, completely outside of the EU straitjacket.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 5 2020, 10:34 PM

No you never said it outright but your words are dripping with it. What happened to all the supposed benefits of leaving the EU? Why is it now just reduced to something we can get through because we’re tough?

Posted by: Rooney Sep 5 2020, 10:38 PM

But the difference is Russia, China, USA, Japan are all much heavily populated areas than the UK and have a large geographical space. Crucially they have the infastructure to produce the products. We're likely to see large parts of manufacturing in the UK outsourced to Europe in the event of no deal. Every other country in the world trades heavily with their closest geographical partner, so it's British logic to be brave and decide to ignore out largesttrade partner. Excellent thinking.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 5 2020, 10:38 PM

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up. Step away from the assumptions and read what I type on here, then you will understand where I am coming from. And yes, Brexit is an opportunity of a lifetime, that is why Leave voters fought so hard to make sure we were never gonna let this drop and make sure we get that clean Brexit from the EU.

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 5 2020, 10:58 PM

I'm at the point where I'm actively hoping everything blows up in the faces of those of you still running eagerly for the cliff edge.

If you want it so much the consequences, good or bad, should fall principally on YOUR shoulders.

Posted by: Harve Sep 5 2020, 11:03 PM

If Britain wants to take a leaf out of post-war France's book and pump billions to invest directly in certain Brexit-supporting, Conservative-donating businesses (a continental, anti-conservative and free market concept!) to the point that European counterparts are no longer competitive in Britain, then that's fine. Dyson/these businesses will just not be able to trade with the rest of the world. That's what it's about.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 5 2020, 11:12 PM

The delusion is so strong that when it happens they will still blame literally anyone other than themselves.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 5 2020, 11:48 PM

It is funny to see, especially as all these fantasial ideas being talked about now were not even a pipe dream in 2016, yet this is "what they voted for". I've no doubt when bumps in the road happen it will be the EU's fault and those pesky Brexit-sceptics.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 06:54 AM

We've still got loo rolls from buying a lot in March but may get more and a lot more tins etc. ScouTs Motto - BE PREPARED.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 07:00 AM

No not at all. I hardly ever read it. I read a wide range of media online.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 6 2020, 07:46 AM

And the motto of anyone sensible - if you can do something to avoid disaster in the first place, do it.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 6 2020, 07:47 AM

And yet so many of these people want to follow WTO rules - rules that are specifically designed to be terrible.

Posted by: Oliver Sep 6 2020, 07:49 AM

Illegal immigrants = Pesky EU (not the British governments fault for failing to apply laws they are capable of applying).
Financial Crisis = Pesky EU (not the banks).
Coronavirus = Pesky EU (not the potentially poor conditions in a Chinese food market).
Zombie apocalypse = Pesky EU (not the Umbrella Corp).

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 08:29 AM

I'm expecting a LOT of bitterness and desperation from the EU people next week.

Good times.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 08:44 AM

unlike in your little delusion, the uk isn't as important as it (and people like you) like to think it is.

Had a longer version of this planned out but there's no point, id have better luck trying to talk a volcano out of its ongoing eruption.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 08:47 AM

But why should we be panic buying for something we didn’t have to do and was going to make Britain great again?



That’s ok. I’m expecting a LOT of delusion and scapegoating from moronic brexiters.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 08:53 AM

Germany and France REALLY tried, but you failed. The UK IS leaving the EU project completely and there is nothing you can do about it. There will be no buyers remorse and the EU will just have to deal. The UK will be right on the EU's doorstep free to do whatever is in the UK's best interests.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 09:12 AM

No one is trying to stop Brexit from happening anymore though. We gave up on December 13th 2019 and admitted defeat because there was nothing else we could do. We realised that we have to hit rock bottom before things are going to change. Rock bottom is on the forecast. It’s easy for you to say we can do whatever we want but you lack examples of what we can do that we couldn’t do before.

Posted by: *Tim Sep 6 2020, 09:13 AM

Honey, the EU is dealing and our population don't give a f*** about this brexit mess anymore. Have fun becoming a puppet on that world stage you're speaking off

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 6 2020, 09:25 AM

I just hope that not having a blue and gold badge on some investment projects is worth all the economic downturn and hardships that will come as a result in the working class areas, you, PeaceMob, always claim want this above all else.

And I also hope that the UK doesn't lose what remains of its health system and workers rights to predatory American corporations. These are all very present dangers in the world of an "independent" UK. Any decent government would have had a plan for this long before they considered the possibility and that the UK government has not has been a damning indictment of it. They will need to own this.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 09:25 AM

Let the games begin.

The EU has no presence on the world's stage, just an empty shell full of hot air.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 09:32 AM

Again I'm telling you that you don't read what I say on here. There's a reason why state aid is at the top of the list of things the EU are scared of when the UK leaves on WTO.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 09:37 AM

Yeah but they haven't tried because as Tim says they don't give a f***. You're not important sweetie.



(and i am a brit in the EU, not a German yet, so I'm actually living with the consequences of your actions)

Posted by: Rooney Sep 6 2020, 10:02 AM

Is this you?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/tory-mp-calls-james-obrien-brexit/

There are no pluses to not doing a deal with the EU. We will be worse off economically, which is precisely what everyone has been saying for a long time. This argument is fukking embarassing, from the Deputy of the Trade board.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 10:05 AM

It's not a nice feeling when your side is the losing side. I understand. It's how Leave voters felt when Theresa May the Remainer tried to force BRINO on the UK, you see it's easy when the EU have a British Prime Minister and their team, nearly all of the civil service, all working to help the EU project and not the British people. Not so easy for the "big and powerful" EU project (ha) when the UK has someone like Boris who will put the British people first and NOT the EU project.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 10:12 AM

Oh and shout out to Gina Miller. If it wasn't for her intervention and letting Parliament have the final say, no-one would have been able to stop Theresa May the Remainer.

Love you Gina.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 6 2020, 10:16 AM

Johnson will put himself first, as he has always done. He will put himself second, third and fourth too. And fifth. The British people are a very long way down his list of priorities.

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 6 2020, 10:17 AM

The UK government have absolutely no idea what they’re doing.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 10:24 AM

Eh? This has zero connection at all to what I wrote and makes less than zero sense

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 10:25 AM

I just. Cannot.

Posted by: mald487 Sep 6 2020, 10:50 AM

Please provide some actual examples of how the UK will be better off by itself on the world stage and how working class British people will be better off in their day to day lives without resorting to abstract slogans like "take back control" or insults.

If you can´t do that then stop wasting peoples time.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 11:06 AM

I do read what you say on here but to be honest I probably shouldn’t because most of it is rambling and gloating about being on ‘the winning side’ as if this were all some sort of popularity contest.

Yeah, we’re not happy about remain being defeated but everyone has accepted it. The discussion has moved to how bad it’s going to be, and there is a lot of evidence to say it’s going to be awful. You seem convinced we will prosper but have done nothing to convince the rest of us of that other than bleat on about how the EU is scared when in fact they couldn’t care less.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 6 2020, 11:15 AM

It's because Peacemob is delusional about the impacts. All they care about it in Mel Gibson terms "FREEEEEEEEEDOM". Which is all very well and good, but the freedom comes at a huge cost. And frankly anyone who is turning their noses up at trading with the EU over the likes of Australia and the USA is an absolute mug. USA will want the NHS and Australia is on the opposite side of the world and is absolutely tiny. Nobody is going to be better off from Brexit in the short-medium term and I'm sceptical about longer term too (20-25 years).

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 11:24 AM

The Labour Party could start listening to the former Red Wall voters for the first time in decades. That might help you. Or you could listen to Boris, the person that made Red Wall voters now vote Conservative for the first time in their lives.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 11:27 AM

Leave voters and the SNP are nothing alike, for a start the SNP are not patriots. They only want to sell Scotland out to the EU project.

Posted by: mald487 Sep 6 2020, 11:42 AM

What? What does that have to do with my last post? I asked you to give examples of how the UK will be better off turning its nose up at its closest neighbors and you start rabbiting on about the Labour Party.

I will ask you again...

In what ways will the average British person be better off?

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 11:54 AM

Excuse me, but did you not know that traditionally in the past until Boris and Brexit came along, working class people would vote for the Labour Party. You asked me why working class people in the UK would be better off if the UK was outside the EU. Ask the people in Sunderland why they voted to leave the EU. Or Wolverhampton, or Salford, or Bradford, or Birmingham. All of them traditionally Labour cities that all voted to leave the EU.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 12:07 PM

We don’t want to ask those people anything. You’re here, you claim to know the answers, YOU tell us.

Why will leaving the EU be great for the working class?

Posted by: Chez Wombat Sep 6 2020, 12:09 PM

You won't get an answer from him. He's from the classic Tory government school of never giving a direct answer to any question.

Posted by: mald487 Sep 6 2020, 12:11 PM

I´m not asking them...I´m asking you, because you are the one that said that everything will be rosy.

You still haven´t answered the question.

How? Give some examples?

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 12:13 PM

Well I would be the wrong person to ask, because *SHOCK* I voted to Remain. Bearing in mind I was on the fence at the time.

Of course, now without a doubt I would vote Leave a 1000 times over.

Posted by: mald487 Sep 6 2020, 12:13 PM

Forget it. He´s going on ignore, I can´t be arsed with this b#llcks

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 12:17 PM

This is complete news!

Now that you’re so sure Leave was definitely the way to go, can you explain why?

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 12:19 PM

Because I believe in democracy. If I didn't, the UK would be in the same situation that Belarus find their country in today.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 12:22 PM

No one. And I mean literally no one. Has made that comparison because it is unhinged f***ing lunacy.


Starting to get quite concerned. Have you tried speaking with a therapist about your delusions?

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 12:27 PM

Scotland in full control over their seas defended by the British navy. No more Dutch and French trawlers destroying the fishing industry.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 6 2020, 12:30 PM

Why would we want to waste our time listening to a compulsive liar? Most of the people less trustworthy than him are in prison.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 6 2020, 12:32 PM

Well, if you're a believer in democracy and the importance of implementing the results of electoral politics then clearly nothing is wrong in Belarus, Lukashenko won his election in a landslide and he's still in power.

???

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 12:34 PM

???

You’re getting less and less coherent as this episode goes on

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 12:35 PM

Lukashenko is an authoritarian, brutal dictator. Why on earth would you think that I think that man believes in democracy?

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 12:36 PM

So you’re so certain it will be ok because a Slim majority voted for it? So it’s not so much that your side won, more ensuring that you’re on the winning side? You sound like a younger Boris Johnson, now wonder you have no credibility here.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 6 2020, 12:36 PM

Point is, if PeaceMob is going to claim that he was once Remain and switched to Leave on the basis of 'DOING MY DEMOCRATIC DUTY', he should be forced to concede that elections and their results are not always infallible (a ridiculous claim even for the most ardent 'democracy fan' at the best of times) and most especially that they should not bind any actions that they ask elected representatives to implement down a super specific course that was not discussed as a viable beneficial option at any point in this whole sorry process.

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 6 2020, 12:38 PM

I would have a lot more respect for the most ardent Brexit-supporters if they defended their positions with genuine answers, explained and described their reasons, and didn't continuously resort to changing the topic or being evasive with semi-unrelated overreaching comments.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 6 2020, 12:45 PM

I do not. But 'believing in democracy' is a pretty useless qualifier for an argument where you are being asked repeatedly to explain the benefits of Brexit. To say you are supporting it because of some cerebral affiliation to the democratic spirit tells us nothing about why this specific version of hard-right lunacy (not what was voted for) is a good thing. And should not get you out of having to explain it, to knowingly sabotage the country on that basis alone would cause so much unnecessary harm.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 6 2020, 12:54 PM

Either you listen to the people or you choose to ignore the people.

I know what country I want to live in.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 6 2020, 01:00 PM

Yes but as that's a useless qualifier for actually supporting Brexit (I'd have far more respect for you/actually believe this "I voted Remain but..." story if you admitted it was obviously going to be a bit shit while saying it needed to happen), why do you now think leaving is a good idea?

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 01:37 PM

Yup. This. Very much this. Haven’t any time for empty meaningless rhetoric or the regurgitation of meaningless soundbites from vacuous self-serving shit for brains papers/politicians

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 6 2020, 02:39 PM

While the UK, a nation full of 30 million racists and bootlickers has...what, exactly?

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 6 2020, 02:40 PM

The funny thing is that Brexiteers are exactly the kind of people who will come to rely on the rest of us, and yet have spent the last four years burning any bridge they can get their grubby hands on.

Unfortunately, that's enough for me. Turning around come this time 2021 and wanting help or support, sorry, but I'm laughing in your face.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 03:38 PM

How can we rely on you anyway? Aren't you Irish. Very confused by your post.

Do you mean the EU in general? We won't be relying on you once we've left at all.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 04:04 PM

He may be Irish but I believe he resides in the UK? Like nationalities matter at this point anyway.

It’s not that we won’t be relying on the EU, it’s that we won’t be able to rely on the EU. The bridge will be thoroughly burnt.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 04:08 PM

We don't WANT to rely on the EU though. That's why we voted by majority to leave surely? We'll be self-sufficient with lots of other trade deals as well as our one with the EU.

Posted by: T Boy Sep 6 2020, 04:28 PM

We’re going to need to rely on someone though. Things are looking bleak.

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 6 2020, 04:29 PM

But you do rely on Ireland hugely especially as joint guaranteers of the GFA (although when the tories are in power they usually go back and be the unionists they are)!

In fairness to Peacemob it’s a lot harder to argue of the pros and cons of a radically new position than see the continued benefits of a status quo position we all know and live through.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 04:43 PM

Article in the Times on Thursday said that no deal is looking very likely now.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/johnson-sees-no-deal-as-better-than-surrender-t5sf30chw

Th article says to ignore the furore about fish, that can easily be agreed, its just being blown up for political reasons on both sides of the debating table - the thing that ultimately sinks any chances of a deal is state aid.

The Tory Party have traditionally been very anti state aid - and very quick to get annoyed if they think any EU member has been engaging in it. Boris Johnson actually railed against it in the referendum campaign.

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1301601530991308802

Cummings however isn't a typical Tory. His vision of the UK's future is the UK becoming a world leader in all sorts of new cutting technology, and rather than relying on the private sector to lead on this, the government is going to have to spend billions and billions on this and plough vast amounts of money into companies to help them develop products that will make Britain a world leader - and crucially not make us reliant on Chinese technology.

Governments don't tend to be very good at developing new IT related technology, or in backing the right companies that make this stuff. But Johnson just does what Cummings wants.

We are basically crashing out of the EU with no deal because of Cumming's blue sky thinking for the UK's future. Its probably the biggest gamble this country has ever taken, and the most reckless and stupid.

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 6 2020, 05:42 PM

I meant younger people and workers.

Who voted overwhelmingly for Brexit? Older people and people with less education.

Well, unfortunately, those kinds of people need public services more and will be hurt if the UK has less ability to fund them. If there's shortages of stuff those kinds of people will be less able to push through the crowds to get the resources they need, or to pay the premiums to keep getting everything they expect. To get nurses in the hospitals, or cleaners for your houses, or people to do the work for you if a whole host of low-paid EU workers go back to the EU. And if educated young people decide to leave the UK in droves then it'll be harder to fund everything out of the taxes of those who remain.

Older folk and poorer folk and less educated folk are pretty much exactly the sections of society who, without a secure social safety net and social contract - a feeling of trust between various groups - will become very quickly vulnerable and can slip through the net.

So it's kind of unfortunate that those groups have spent the last four years going out of their way to make enemies of everyone else.

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 6 2020, 07:22 PM

Why would educated young people leave the Uk?

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 6 2020, 07:25 PM

Why wouldn't they? If there's rationing, wage stagnation etc. Why would they stay?

It happens in every country where things suddenly go badly for the population - those most able to leave for a better life elsewhere, do. Surely coming from Ireland you're familiar with the concept? Or look at Greece, for a more recent example.

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 6 2020, 08:03 PM

...?

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 6 2020, 08:20 PM

Why stay is the more important question.

I left. I earn more money, have a nicer apartment, better work life balance and I live in a country with competent leadership and a grown up approach to corona.

If only I could have brought all my closest friends and family with me then I’d have no reason to ever return to that damp little island

Jesus Christ. The next few months are going to be very very very long and painful.


They’re also trying to force judicial change on Scotland to stop the Scottish courts holding the Gov to account. Only issue is that if they do it, they violate the Acts of Union and the Treaty of Union which guarantees the continuation of Scots Law and it’s independence and functions as it was at the time of Union in 1707

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 6 2020, 08:30 PM

Indeed but the uk isn’t Ireland or Greece and the fact these two countries are actually in the Eu surely goes to highlight that the point is wrong.

Also none of the scenarios have happened in the uk or imo will happen.

Also everyone has a different outlook as to what’s important in life so for everyone who wants to leave for various different reasons not just economic there will be many that will stay for many different reasons also not solely due to economic reasons.

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 6 2020, 09:44 PM

And so devolution ends if this is true!

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 09:50 PM

BORIS SETS 5 WEEK DEADLINE TO AGREE DEAL WITH EU

From The Sun:

BORIS Johnson has set a five-week deadline to agree a post-Brexit trade deal.

And ahead of this week’s talks, he said he was happy to end negotiations with the EU without an agreement if terms did not suit.

The Prime Minister insisted No Deal would still be “a good outcome for the UK”.

He said it would mean we would trade with the EU on the same terms as Australia did.

Mr Johnson insisted any arrangement must be signed by October 15 so it could be in force by December 31, the end of the transition period.

He said there was “no sense in thinking about timelines that go beyond that” as businesses on both sides of the Channel needed time to prepare.


Talk in tomorrow's press that the UK is set to get even tougher with the EU and refuse to budge on anything now. Chief negotiator David Frost warned that "We will not blink in the next few weeks and will not become a client state of the EU"

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 09:56 PM

On a lighter note, had to laugh at a woman on the news tonight saying she voted OUT purely because the EU, specifically France, forced us to change the name of JIF cleaner to CIF.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 6 2020, 09:59 PM

Agreed there. Plus the UK already has a reliance on food banks and wage stagnation. There won't be any rationing, it's not WW2. There will be shortages in the supply chain, that is a given if there is no deal. But it will be simialr to the early days of covid-19 only for items which are perishable so they are also harder to store unless you've 6 freezers in your house.

Young, educated people won't be leaving the UK in their droves. If anything in the shirt term there might even be more jobs under £30,000 in the medium term for young people. The problem comes that to be a successful business you need the right experitse and talent and we don't always have that in the UK, which is why it was so easy to attract people from the EU to fill these talent gaps. Plus moving to another country comes with cultural changes too which not everyone can aclimatise to.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 6 2020, 10:02 PM

So you mean fruit and veg really and foreign cheeses, meats etc. So we needn't really bother hoarding tins? Let's hope the shortages don't last long then and there aren't the port queues that the pessimists claim we'll have.

Posted by: Harve Sep 6 2020, 10:06 PM

They should though. Language skills of its citizens aside, if any country's ripe for a brain drain then it's Britain.

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 6 2020, 10:31 PM

I'm simply observing what happens in every other country where a similar cataclysmic event comes that destroys social mobility.

People with skills that are not being used to their best here, or who are not getting a fair reward and progression relative to their level of skill, WILL seek better as soon as they're aware of the ability to.

We'll see if it happens, but I'll say be wary of a 'it couldn't/won't happen here' mentality - look where that took the UK's covid-19 response.

Or look at many other countries in the world that until recently were stable and modern, civilised places. It doesn't take much to nudge the train off the tracks.

Posted by: Rooney Sep 6 2020, 11:30 PM

It could be any products, from big brands to fresh produce. Isn't there a wheat shortage anyway at this moment in time? As I've said time and time again, all the major players in the market (Tesco, Asda, Aldi.. then your brands Unilever, Nestle, Heinz-Kraft, Mars etc.) have been preparing tor Brexit for 4+ years. They have masses amount of warehouse space and estimated in the event of any likely supply chain shortage, they would have 3-4 months worth of stock in reserve. But Covid has depleted this and most of the major players just don't have the capacity to guarantee there won't be supply shortages of certain products. You could see Mars bars only available in Tesco for example for a period of weeks.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 7 2020, 05:51 AM

I see the 'No deal is better than a bad deal' mantra is back..

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 7 2020, 08:51 AM

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-07/brexit-adds-extra-hurdle-for-u-k-pilots-striving-to-keep-jobs

Posted by: *Tim Sep 7 2020, 10:49 AM

It's just so funny to me that this government is trying to get access the the EU market, yet refuses to accept the rules in said market. How is that in any way an achieveable demand? But bad EU for mot letting them have what they want

I'm not quite sure what the demanda are regarding the fishing grounds, so if someone could expand on that

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 7 2020, 09:01 PM

Lovely and not at all psycho to think this is all just a game and won't affect lives.


What a weird comparison of 2 countries that have ZERO things in common. Belarus never even had true democracy to begin with The direction where Britain is going is, however, very reminiscent of Russia's 'let's create a hate campaign for a specific group of people/organisation/etc. and blame everything on them instead if when something goes wrong'. A hate-driven propaganda hype train designed to split the population so that people fought against each other instead of communicating and making the governments truly accountable for what they are doing.


Lovely how I read through like 56 pages of Peacemob's posts and the only 'arguments' provided were "the British are brave and tough" and "i like democracy lol".

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 7 2020, 09:08 PM

It's their responsibility to convince everyone else why exactly that new thing is going to be better. And that is EXACTLY the point of changing the status quo. There MUST be very convincing arguments. So far there has been very few (if any).

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 7 2020, 10:09 PM

I would assume they believe that they convinced the majority in 2016 and now it’s about ‘getting the job done’!

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 7 2020, 10:16 PM

Any campaign based on hate and ignorance having such a strong response just shows how little we have evolved as a species.

Posted by: Steve201 Sep 7 2020, 10:23 PM

Maybe so but we are where we are

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 8 2020, 08:39 AM

“It is what it is” :’)

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 8 2020, 11:57 AM

There are MANY reasons why the UK is a lot better off outside the EU project, but your problem is that you don't LISTEN. It's been 4 years so you probably never will. We now have Boris and the government, and slowly a Remainer-free civil service that is now implementing Brexit and listening to the people that won the EU referendum vote.

No more "we know best" from the BBC, the Remainer civil service, people like Theresa May that say "no deal is better than a bad deal" and then just extend to infinity.

Brexiteers are getting more and more in control and yes we OWN it because we want to own it, we WANT to take responsibility and now we are. And guess what, the EU project is floundering, it's not so easy when you don't have a country's elite in your back pocket any more and is instead working for the British people.

Posted by: PeaceMob Sep 8 2020, 12:02 PM

The only hate I've seen in the last 4 years has come from Remain voters towards Leave voters. You have called Leave voters every name under the sun, filled with bile and venom. The mask well and truly slipped and woke even more people up to what type of people were leading this country.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 8 2020, 12:03 PM

Can you name 3 please? Since there are so many...



That already happened on 31st January 2020 at 11pm, we have LEFT the European Union, get over it. There is no such thing as 'remainers' anymore, if you insist on living in the past then you should now probably be referring to the FBPE clique as 're-joiners'. The civil service are supposed to be impartial, they used to be until Dominic Cummings turned up of course.



Good, looking forward to 2021 and our turbo charged, levelled-up economy. I'm also looking forward to you stopping BANGING ON ABOUT EUROPE.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 8 2020, 12:24 PM

Seeing as the top legal civil servant quit today over the changes to the Northern Ireland protocol, things are looking AUSPICIOUS for the future. As always.

Hope you enjoy a government that will work even less for the people than the Cameron/May governments ever did. Not even the EU propping needed investments for poor areas either.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 8 2020, 12:26 PM

*me looking at the scores of opinion polls that show rising support for the EU in EVERY EU country since the Brexit vote*

*hides news reports of Vestager making big US tech companies her bitch*

*flicking through all the applications for membership from the Balkan states and the notice of intention from Scotland to sink the UK and rejoin the EU*



Uh huh. Failing project. Ok.

Posted by: Iz~ Sep 8 2020, 12:33 PM

Very accurate. The first signs of this have proliferated through the last few years, removal of Remainers from government, denigrating anyone involved with Corbyn, anyone who has the temerity to be unpatriotic, the university-educated young elite 'middle classes' (large numbers of whom are stuck in bad jobs and earning far less than older "working class" tradesmen, yet are out of touch by voting Labour, of course), anyone who tries to make Brexit less of a harm to people, experts... always a wonderful sign when your country engages in anti-intellectualism.

I am very afraid that the British government will inflict great harm to people in the next few years, perhaps just through negligence, but also because so many vulnerable will have nowhere else to go as workers rights, educational opportunities and healthcare is slashed to give pats on the back to Conservative friends in business and foreign trade deals.

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 8 2020, 12:41 PM

Well then.

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 8 2020, 12:41 PM

Sorry if I'm an 'elite' because I didn't mess around and never try a jot in school...

You have to laugh at this stage when the people suddenly throwing a fit and a tantrum have systematically throughout their entire lives screwed themselves over through laziness and gullibility, and have finally done the same again, manipulated by some super-rich actors who they convinced them were their friends once again.

Makes you want to run a Nigerian Prince scam, doesn't it?

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 8 2020, 12:46 PM

Now we know why Jonathan Jones quit.

Frankly, this is an utter disgrace - but I suspect Cummings and Co will sink lower.

Posted by: blacksquare Sep 8 2020, 12:48 PM

It's only a little bit illegal — it's fine.

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 8 2020, 01:16 PM

Nice attempt on high roading from someone who supports a campaign that is literally built on hating/blaming everything on immigrants.

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 8 2020, 01:33 PM

Oh and I forgot the SUPER VALID reason that the EU controlled the borders and UK wasn't an independent country because of that. Well now you are truly independent. 💖

That's why I need to get a separate visa from the rest of the EU-Schengen countries to visit the UK now... just like it was WAY before Brexit. It was LITERALLY the only EU country where third-country nationals have to get a separate visa to go there (unless your country is exempt, etc.). Not to mention there's strict border control and you wouldn't be able to get in or out without your identity checked. Have some Brexiteers even travelled abroad to see how things ACTUALLY work? :')

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 8 2020, 01:51 PM

This is mildly concerning 🙃

No they haven’t. Which is half the problem.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 8 2020, 02:19 PM

Of course not. Abroad is full of forrinaz.

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 8 2020, 03:53 PM

LOL. You seem to think us staunch Brexiteers hate all foreigners. We don't. We hate the fact that if they wanted all of the EU could get on a plane and come here. We dislike being ruled by the EU too. Well I do anyway. All the red tape, size and shape of bananas etc etc.

Did you see my post yesterday where a woman on TV said she voted out as the EU forced the UK to change the name of cleaner JIF to CIF?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 8 2020, 04:48 PM

How many times do you need to be told that the straight bananas story was a total fabrication? That, of course, means that we are still waiting for an example of a law imposed on us by the EU against the will of the government of the day. Four years since the referendum and not a single example from anyone.

So far, all we have heard abut is the amount of extra red tape that will be involved for anyone wanting to trade with the EU. We have not been given a single example of red tape that will be abolished. Any ideas?

As for that ridiculous Jif story, what better example could you have of why the referendum was such a stupid idea in the first place?

Posted by: T Boy Sep 8 2020, 05:54 PM

Like you, that woman sounds totally insane. I really wish you and Peacemob could give us one universal benefit of leaving the EU that’s actually true and not veiled racism.

Posted by: Harve Sep 8 2020, 11:44 PM

"I don't hate foreigners, I just don't want them to be in the same country as me"

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq Sep 9 2020, 07:24 AM

They are taking all the jobs we don’t want!!! 😠

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 9 2020, 10:17 AM

I (55M with 3 O-Levels) am furious because an immigrant (29F with Medical degree) has taken my job (as a jnr doctor in NHS)

Posted by: J00psyMethyd Sep 9 2020, 10:59 AM

Basically...lmao

Posted by: Crazy Chris Sep 9 2020, 03:58 PM

That's funny.

Posted by: Envoirment Sep 9 2020, 05:53 PM

Boris defended the planned changes to the WA today. The ones that would break international law and essentially make the UK a rogue state. I don't know how on earth we're meant to get "favourable" trade deals with the rest of the world if the changes get voted through. Completely decimating trust in the UK. I really hope we'll have another election sooner rather than later. Or the conservative party will somehow come to its senses and oust Johnson as leader.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 9 2020, 05:56 PM

This, of course, comes from a party that likes to describe itself as "the party of law and order". They are led by a man who closed down parliament unlawfully, allowed the housing minister to stay in his post after breaking the law and now proposes breaking international law.

Posted by: Quarantilas Sep 9 2020, 05:56 PM

We ain’t takin this lying down. It’s fight time

Posted by: Envoirment Sep 9 2020, 05:58 PM

Between covid, a likely no deal brexit and the furlough scheme ending - the end of 2020/beginning of 2021 is going to be a massive shitstorm.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Sep 9 2020, 09:55 PM

I mean obviously I don't buy this sudden realisation that if there is no trade agreement by the end of the transition period that the Withdrawal Agreement (this 'oven ready' brilliant deal that Boris with a straight face put to the country as amazing in December, blustered to the HoC that we needn't bother with scrutinising it) would default to having a border down the Irish Sea to leave Northern Ireland separated from the UK, within the single market and customs union. I mean, they obviously must have realised that this would be the case when they signed, they do have expert legal advice. It's not as if it wasn't a talking point throughout the entirely of 2019..\

Don't get me started on them presenting this 'specific and very limited' breach of international law as a way for them to safeguard the GFA.

It's a crap bluff (if it is one, [hint- it is])because it is not going to change the negotiating stance of the EU, if anything make the end of the talks more likely, which means it's called out and the UK loses credibility / becomes a rogue state and unable with any authority to call out other such actions by other states and ruins the chance of securing FTAs.