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 New Political party? |
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 20th December 2019, 08:26 AM
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#181
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 20 2019, 07:51 AM)  If it was meant to be binding, there would have been a threshold to be reached and, possibly, explicit provision for a vote on the deal. If there was no such provision, the Leave side would’ve been under more pressure to have something vaguely resembling a plan. There would definitely have been provision for the result being overturned if the winning side broke the law. And imagine what would have happened if there *had* been a threshold, and Leave had the most votes without meeting it! Rather like the first Scottish Devolution referendum in 1979, and the SNP has been growing in strength ever since... 
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20th December 2019, 08:40 AM
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#182
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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Don't think it matters whether it was binding or ot. I'd say most voters thought it was. You never heard either side on TV, at meeting, rallies etc say "by the way, this is not binding so maybe nothing wil happen with the result"
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20th December 2019, 08:49 AM
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#183
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,678 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 20 2019, 08:26 AM) And imagine what would have happened if there *had* been a threshold, and Leave had the most votes without meeting it! Rather like the first Scottish Devolution referendum in 1979, and the SNP has been growing in strength ever since... Golf clubs and other organisations up and down the country require a threshold to be reached to make even a minor change to their constitution. |
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20th December 2019, 10:14 AM
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#184
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 20 2019, 08:49 AM) Golf clubs and other organisations up and down the country require a threshold to be reached to make even a minor change to their constitution. We *entered* the Common Market without a referendum at all.... This post has been edited by vidsanta: 20th December 2019, 10:14 AM |
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20th December 2019, 10:59 AM
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#185
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 Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 20 2019, 11:14 AM) We *entered* the Common Market without a referendum at all.... It was rubber stamped with a referendum that voted substantially in favour though. |
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20th December 2019, 11:50 AM
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#186
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,678 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidsanta @ Dec 20 2019, 10:14 AM) We *entered* the Common Market without a referendum at all.... Among other things to have been done without a referendum are giving the vote to women and non-property-owning men, reducing the voting age to 21, joining the UN and NATO, abolishing the separate constituencies for universities and abolishing most of the hereditary peers. That's because we are a parliamentary democracy. |
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20th December 2019, 03:48 PM
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#187
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Dec 20 2019, 10:59 AM) It was rubber stamped with a referendum that voted substantially in favour though. To a body far less pervasive than the EU is now... |
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21st December 2019, 02:22 AM
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#188
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 20 2019, 07:51 AM) If it was meant to be binding, there would have been a threshold to be reached and, possibly, explicit provision for a vote on the deal. If there was no such provision, the Leave side would’ve been under more pressure to have something vaguely resembling a plan. There would definitely have been provision for the result being overturned if the winning side broke the law. Doesn't sound like an arguement anyone on the remain side has used including Swinson and the LDs during the campaign. |
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1st November 2020, 10:15 PM
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#189
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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New Political Party KLAXON. Let's hope it finally splits that stubborn Tory vote!  The OK Boomer Party awaits!
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1st November 2020, 10:23 PM
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#190
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❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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ffs can he just GO AWAY
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1st November 2020, 11:10 PM
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#191
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 21 November 2009
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Nov 1 2020, 10:23 PM) ffs can he just GO AWAY As much as I hate him, it would be better he stayed if he is creating a new party. Once a brexit deal is done, any party he creates is likey to funnel away support from the conservatives. |
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1st November 2020, 11:56 PM
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#192
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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QUOTE(Doctor Blind @ Nov 1 2020, 11:15 PM) New Political Party KLAXON. Let's hope it finally splits that stubborn Tory vote! The OK Boomer Party awaits!Ooh, my favourite political-related klaxon. It's not a surprise, it was pretty well known that once Brexit happened that Farage would change the Brexit Party into the Reform Party, but I didn't think that coronavirus would feature in his offering. Then again, there is a sizeable minority that is becoming restless under lockdown, and he's got form at taking a minority political position and getting support behind it. Although the demographic that are most opposed to lockdown are 18-24 year olds (by quite a large margin), a group that are also more likely to be repulsed by Farage, so if there is an anti-lockdown party, it won't be one fronted by Farage. |
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2nd November 2020, 01:12 AM
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#193
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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There is space for a populist party, indeed, and it's one of the few ways we COULD get old Brexiteers into voting for something positive, but obviously I would rather there not be Farage leading it because of the direction he would twist it.
For electioneering purposes, yes, you do want a right-wing Farage-led thing siphoning votes from the right (even though the effect has only ever been minor in comparison to Labour/Lib Dem overlap), but for actually having a chance at changing the political outlook of England in the future, you want something that can attract people from across the spectrum. Put it this way, if this new party is racist/far-right, and only puts the Tory vote in danger, then the Tories have to become more racist to stop him, and they will. If it is not racist and puts all parties' votes in danger, then Labour AND the Conservatives have to react and play to their voters, perhaps even for vote reform, which is apparently the aim of this new one. So in summary, I do actually hope that he can reach a lot of anti-lockdown people with this one under a more unifying banner, though because of his past form, I won't be holding my breath. |
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2nd November 2020, 01:36 AM
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#194
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is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
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If it’s a Lawrence Fox-esque anti woke, reactionary populist party than I can see it taking votes off the Tories, that sentiment is very popular right now sadly. I doubt many of that demographic voted Labour in 2019, maybe in 2017 but it could stop Labour winning votes back in the North and Midlands. Even the Brexit Party got some good vote shares in certain areas last year. But yeah, hurting the Tories is never a bad thing but the further rise of Farage is a very bad thing :’)
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2nd November 2020, 08:04 PM
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#195
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#38BBE0 otherwise known as 'sky blue'
Joined: 27 October 2008
Posts: 16,173 User: 7,561
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QUOTE(Moriz Oculiz @ Nov 2 2020, 01:12 AM) There is space for a populist party, indeed, and it's one of the few ways we COULD get old Brexiteers into voting for something positive, but obviously I would rather there not be Farage leading it because of the direction he would twist it. For electioneering purposes, yes, you do want a right-wing Farage-led thing siphoning votes from the right (even though the effect has only ever been minor in comparison to Labour/Lib Dem overlap), but for actually having a chance at changing the political outlook of England in the future, you want something that can attract people from across the spectrum. Put it this way, if this new party is racist/far-right, and only puts the Tory vote in danger, then the Tories have to become more racist to stop him, and they will. If it is not racist and puts all parties' votes in danger, then Labour AND the Conservatives have to react and play to their voters, perhaps even for vote reform, which is apparently the aim of this new one. So in summary, I do actually hope that he can reach a lot of anti-lockdown people with this one under a more unifying banner, though because of his past form, I won't be holding my breath. I agree, Farage has good instincts for picking up on a polarising (but vocal) minority opinion and using a combination of the Tory grassroots and those in former Labour heartlands who feel ignored and using the noise to amplify these views and force the Conservatives into shaping his own preferred policy. He did it with Euroscepticism (a minority view in the UK even until the 2010s), why not this? |
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2nd November 2020, 08:23 PM
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#196
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474
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You could hear the collective orgasms of BBC News executives when this was announced. Now they have more reasons to inflict him upon us.
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13th December 2020, 09:06 AM
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#197
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,678 User: 3,272
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Jeremy Corbyn (remember him?) is apparently making some sort of announcement this afternoon. Speculation ranges from a new party to running as an independent candidate for Mayor of London.
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13th December 2020, 09:21 AM
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#198
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
Posts: 37,421 User: 12,929 |
Hmm, I can't see him starting a new party myself, though I could be wrong. His Twitter says he's been working on it since the spring - would have been pretty gutsy to be working to leave Labour immediately after stepping down.
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13th December 2020, 10:58 AM
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#199
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Howdy, disco citizens
Joined: 16 January 2010
Posts: 12,775 User: 10,455
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I can't see Corbyn setting up a new party - if it wasn't for the fact he had the Labour brand behind him, he would never have been an MP for as long as he has, so a new party would lead to a downward spiral for he chances at remaining an MP. See the election results of former MP Dave Nellist, who after being expelled from Labour went from winning close to half the votes in his constituency to going down to a few thousand since aligning himself with TUSC. Or more recently, the expelled Labour MP & Corbyn ally Chris Williamson, who went from nearly 24,000 votes in 2017 to just 600 votes in 2019 whilst running as an independent.
At the very most, I expect a new Corbyn-led pressure group within Labour to be launched, although I can see why Corbyn might be tempted to join his former allies Williamson & Nellist by hopping ship to join TUSC. |
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13th December 2020, 12:48 PM
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#200
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,163 User: 5,138
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He should stay in, it’s always funny how when socialist get expelled there’s little media attention but when right wingers do it’s all over the media and called a purge - shows how biased they are
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