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 Should Scotland get an indyref2? |
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 16th January 2020, 06:01 AM
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#41
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jan 15 2020, 07:42 PM)  The people of Scotland have a right to determine their own future, regardless of what the voters view on that future is. Also, Chris and Vid your views have been noted and filed in the nearest waste disposal facility where they belong. Scotland doesn’t need your permission. The Scottish people have voted, repeatedly, for a second referendum and they are what matter. Not you 1. Yet when *we* did so, via the Brexit Referendum that was somehow wrong?  2. That's a shame you think my (previously unexpressed in this thread) views should be binned, as you've just throw away my Yes note.  QUOTE(Steve201 @ Jan 15 2020, 08:04 PM) Of course they should the Brexit debacle in 2016 has meant a huge constitutional change so there should be another vote if the snp hold the balance of power and had that as part of their manifesto. The fact a UK PM which is nearly always invariably English is a ridiculous situation. Why didn't Gordon Brown grant a referendum when he was PM, then? QUOTE(Auld Lang Peen @ Jan 15 2020, 08:15 PM) The non-scab north east and Scotland want nothing to do with him. We deserve independence votes. One for Scotland and one for the north to join Scotland if they'll have us. You're now calling everywhere in England outside the NE 'scabs'? That's a bit extreme! QUOTE(Harve @ Jan 15 2020, 09:15 PM) The ludicrous thing is that you do control it actually, because you, a voter in England, elects Scotland's government. I thought the SNP considered Holyrood to be Scotland's government? |
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16th January 2020, 07:38 AM
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#42
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 22,001 User: 53
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QUOTE(Jüpiter👑 @ Jan 16 2020, 01:55 AM) Absolutely yes. Fascinated that we have as many as four no's! Make that 5 now! People are entitled to their opinions, within the law, whether others like them or not. That's called living in a free country, Should we all vote yes to please everyone here? 
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16th January 2020, 08:22 AM
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#43
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,151 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 15 2020, 08:51 PM) Oh stop bullying me. Vid posed the question. He didn't even asked you to explain your answer. How on earth is that bullying I am asking you to account for what your saying with more than 'that's what Boris said'! |
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16th January 2020, 08:23 AM
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#44
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Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,151 User: 5,138
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 16 2020, 06:01 AM) 1. Yet when *we* did so, via the Brexit Referendum that was somehow wrong? 2. That's a shame you think my (previously unexpressed in this thread) views should be binned, as you've just throw away my Yes note. Why didn't Gordon Brown grant a referendum when he was PM, then? You're now calling everywhere in England outside the NE 'scabs'? That's a bit extreme! I thought the SNP considered Holyrood to be Scotland's government? It wasn't an issue when Brown was PM, the SNP only became the majority government in 2007 so had to show they could govern first. |
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16th January 2020, 08:24 AM
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#45
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 I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2020, 07:38 AM) Make that 5 now! People are entitled to their opinions, within the law, whether others like them or not. That's called living in a free country, Should we all vote yes to please everyone here? Defend your opinion. |
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16th January 2020, 08:47 AM
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#46
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 there's nothing straight about plump Elvis
Pronouns: they/any
Joined: 21 January 2016 Posts: 13,144 User: 22,895 
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2020, 07:38 AM) Make that 5 now! People are entitled to their opinions, within the law, whether others like them or not. That's called living in a free country, Should we all vote yes to please everyone here? I'm not surprised by some bc I know some of you are authoritarian which obviously informs your response, I just found interesting that besides the two of you who are defending/explaining your position there are a number of respondents too shy to. It made me wonder who they might be & whether their reasons for that belief are the same. |
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16th January 2020, 08:56 AM
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#47
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jan 16 2020, 08:24 AM) Defend your opinion. You want Chris to, without defending yours?  |
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16th January 2020, 09:00 AM
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#48
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 7 March 2006
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QUOTE(Jüpiter👑 @ Jan 16 2020, 08:47 AM) I'm not surprised by some bc I know some of you are authoritarian which obviously informs your response, I just found interesting that besides the two of you who are defending/explaining your position there are a number of respondents too shy to. It made me wonder who they might be & whether their reasons for that belief are the same. Probably too shy or scared to admit to voting no as they'll be virtually chased off the forum and it shouldn't be like that. You're a pariah here if you don't vote like the majority. Same in the Brexit referendum.
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16th January 2020, 09:19 AM
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#49
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Crazy Chris @ Jan 16 2020, 09:00 AM) Probably too shy or scared to admit to voting no as they'll be virtually chased off the forum and it shouldn't be like that. You're a pariah here if you don't vote like the majority. Same in the Brexit referendum. That's a probable explanation as to why the Tories unexpectedly won the GE by as much as they did, too. People should never be shamed for/ashamed of, expressing their true opinions. 
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16th January 2020, 09:46 AM
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#50
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 ❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
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There's expressing opinions and then there's just mindlessly repeating whatever Johnson or Trump says without any evaluation but instead stating you take it as truth because of their positions.
 In particular, seeing no problem if one of them was going to carry out an act of genocide. |
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16th January 2020, 09:56 AM
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#51
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I'm a paragon so don't perceive me
Joined: 3 February 2011
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Daily reminder that being asked to defend and justify your opinions is not in any shape or form being 'chased off of the forum'. Why is it fair for the Scots to not have the right to self-determinate now circumstances have changed?
QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 16 2020, 08:56 AM) You want Chris to, without defending yours? QUOTE(Iz~ @ Jan 16 2020, 03:24 AM) Yes, yes, absolutely yes. I love the idea of the Union but only as much as all four countries in the Union also love the idea of it. If Scotland wants to leave they must be allowed to leave and circumstances have clearly changed since the last one. I did not say that, if you wish, go right ahead. I have never not defended my opinion when challenged upon it using this forum. Chris and you make it a daily habit. |
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16th January 2020, 10:31 AM
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#52
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
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QUOTE(Klaus @ Jan 16 2020, 09:46 AM) There's expressing opinions and then there's just mindlessly repeating whatever Johnson or Trump says without any evaluation but instead stating you take it as truth because of their positions. In particular, seeing no problem if one of them was going to carry out an act of genocide. Are you replying to me or Chris, as my opinions are my own, and any agreement is just coincidence.
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16th January 2020, 12:00 PM
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#53
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 Break the tension
Joined: 7 March 2006
Posts: 88,970 User: 51
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Yes, of course. The appetite for one is undeniable and irrefutable, so why should it be denied?
I can’t exactly blame Scotland for not wanting to be tied to this festering sinkhole of a country, especially one so intent on catastrophic self-implosion. |
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16th January 2020, 12:58 PM
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#54
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Tawdry Hepburn @ Jan 16 2020, 12:00 PM) Yes, of course. The appetite for one is undeniable and irrefutable, so why should it be denied? I can’t exactly blame Scotland for not wanting to be tied to this festering sinkhole of a country, especially one so intent on catastrophic self-implosion. From a cynical pov, the Tories should grant one ASAP. If the SNP win, it would give the Tories an almost permanent majority in the rest of the UK, If the SNP lost, they'd lose their main bargaining chip, and wee Jimmy krankee would surely have to go... 
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16th January 2020, 01:08 PM
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#55
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 25 July 2016
Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 16 2020, 08:56 AM) You want Chris to, without defending yours? Iz~ consistently presents arguments with reasoning and explanations. Chris, as this thread has proven again, mostly does not. These comments are as tiring as ever. It shouldn't be difficult to explain your arguments. This post has been edited by blacksquare: 16th January 2020, 01:09 PM |
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16th January 2020, 01:15 PM
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#56
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(blacksquare @ Jan 16 2020, 01:08 PM) Iz~ consistently presents arguments with reasoning and explanations. Chris, as this thread has proven again, mostly does not. These comments are as tiring as ever. It shouldn't be difficult to explain your arguments. In case you missed it, I voted the same way as most here, so those arguments have already been made... |
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16th January 2020, 02:02 PM
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#57
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,083 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 16 2020, 06:01 AM) 1. You're now calling everywhere in England outside the NE 'scabs'? That's a bit extreme! Wrong. Just Scottish and northern Tories. |
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16th January 2020, 02:19 PM
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#58
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Auld Lang Peen @ Jan 16 2020, 02:02 PM) Wrong. Just Scottish and northern Tories. You do realise Brown was a labour pm, right? This post has been edited by vidcapper: 16th January 2020, 02:19 PM |
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16th January 2020, 02:23 PM
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#59
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,083 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 16 2020, 02:19 PM) You do realise Brown was a labour pm, right? And Scotland was far happier under Labour and with the direction the UK was going. The two countries have since massively diverged. Your point is irrelevant. The Tories keep using the spectre of Scotland "controlling" England to win, even though England controlling Scotland in a union of equals is seen as normal. |
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16th January 2020, 02:45 PM
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#60
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Auld Lang Peen @ Jan 16 2020, 02:23 PM) The Tories keep using the spectre of Scotland "controlling" England to win, Another in your series of bizarre ideas about the Tories. 
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