Printable version of thread

Posted by: *CENSORED* 11th February 2020, 09:11 AM

So I decided to create this topic. If anything to just VENT because it can get overwhelming especially nowadays~

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51443169

So yesterday was quite a monumental day for Russia. Justice finally got served.

JK MISS THING! 7 people were jailed for 86 years in total after being tortured and """confessing""" to being part of a "terrorist" organisation (as well as killing Kennedy and being Stalin's left testicle among other things) that doesn't actually exist. SO many inconsistencies and lies told by the police. All the receipts are there. People who actually followed this story know all the tea. It's all bogus and is just yet another measure to keep everyone here afraid to do anything (by that I mean revolt). Some not exactly... if I may say so... smart people are calling for even harsher sentences or death penalty (yay 4 kindness) because they only watch national television and heard the word "terrorist" which was enough for them to make a decision. Think Leavers and Dailymail.

All of this happened days after they let a murderer go because the victim "fell on the knife". The victim being gay played a huge role in this decision.

The only lesson here is that torture is Putin approved and if you murder someone in front of many witnesses with CCTV footage proving you did it (provided that they are LGBTQ+ or a woman of course!) you will be let go after a pesky trial that means f*** all.

What a great time to live in this AMAZING North Korea's baby sister country.💖

Posted by: Suedehead2 12th February 2020, 06:30 AM

That’s no way to talk about Trump and Johnson’s boss

Posted by: Steve201 2nd July 2020, 10:39 PM

And Putin has conducted his referendum for a new constitution to rubber stamp him running(and likely winning) elections until 2036 meaning he will rule Russia into his 80s.

Posted by: n'tAlice 2nd July 2020, 11:04 PM

Yup. A landslide "win". The whole thing/government is complete shambles. If you think you have it bad with Bozo, think again :')

Posted by: Andrew. 2nd July 2020, 11:55 PM

Yeah this puts what we have into perspective, I can't imagine how it must be in Russia rn Serious question, is leaving a viable option for you after lockdown ~

Posted by: Iz~ 10th August 2020, 04:01 PM

Posting it in here because it fits into Russia's sphere of influence... the Belarus elections have sparked massive protests. Lukashenko claiming he won 80% of the vote which is an obvious nonsense, and I have seen that protesters have started commandeering votes and counting them themselves, which seem like they are overwhelming victory for the opposition candidate Tikhanovskaya, who's managed to emerge as the first opposition candidate that Lukashenko wouldn't ban:

I am very worried with the reports of protests, at what might happen in that country soon, and indeed, what Putin might do about it. I've heard that he and Lukashenko haven't always gotten on but surely Belarus not being a democracy and not being tempted to look towards the West has worked in Putin's favour.

Posted by: Quarantilas 10th August 2020, 05:00 PM

I did note that Putin and a few of the more questionably ruled former soviet states and other places without democratic leadership (looking @ u china) were quick to recognise the result as legitimate. It is not sustainable that this man clings to power any longer. Belarus needs reforms. The EU should be cranking up the economic pressure, in co-operation with Ukraine, to ensure that the peoples democratically expressed wishes are followed through with the change in leadership they voted for.

Posted by: n'tAlice 10th August 2020, 05:42 PM

80% is beyond laughable given the exit polls conducted by the opposition showed the Tikhanovskaya leading by a landslide. Also he polled at 3% last month which sparked a whole set of memes. THREE. PERCENT. Massive protests and one death as a result (a police vehicle allegedly drove into said protester) are being reported. Obviously the 'government' is denying the latter.

Also to top it all off the 'government' is denying their involvement in the internet blackout which was planned for 9-11 August (and I have friends there who confirm they have massive problems with internet right now). 'THESE TWO THINGS ARE NOT CONNECTED, MOVE ALONG, NOTHING TO SEE HERE, THE WEST IS DOING IT, THEY TURNED OFF THE INTERNET!!1' - I'm paraphrasing Lukashenko's response regarding this.

Posted by: Steve201 11th August 2020, 06:22 PM

Putin won't stand for Belarus having a pro west leader! Just like Ukraine.

Posted by: Suedehead2 12th August 2020, 12:05 PM

It is worth remembering that Belarus is the only European country not signed up to the European Convention on Human Rights. There are a lot of Tory MPs who would like the UK to join them.

Posted by: n'tAlice 20th August 2020, 10:11 AM

The Kremlin opposition leader Navalny has allegedly (I'm only using this word as a courtesy, everyone knows what really happened) been poisoned in an airport. Currently in critical condition. Looks like the government is still stuck in the 90s. Everything is looking bleaker and bleaker by the moment.

Posted by: Iz~ 20th August 2020, 10:23 AM

How can Russia even pretend to call itself a democracy when something like this can happen?

With Lukashenko looking ever more beleaguered by the day, could be a pre-emptive strike to leave the Russian opposition leaderless in case any of them were getting ideas.

Posted by: n'tAlice 20th August 2020, 10:39 AM

Russia pretends to be and have a lot of things which in reality is not true at all. Everything is about appearances and a check mark on a useless piece of paper. You can see it affecting regular people too, especially Moscow. Russia is an empty shell of itself by this point.

Posted by: Quarantilas 20th August 2020, 09:22 PM

Yup. This is an entirely normal course of events

Posted by: Spiceboy 21st August 2020, 07:51 AM

There’s so many things I would love to see in Russia, but I wouldn’t dare visit with the state the country is in, nor would I want to tbh.

Posted by: Quarantilas 3rd September 2020, 07:31 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54002880

Berlin announced yesterday that Novichok was used to poison Navalny. I am sure we are all pretending to be surprised at this news.

Posted by: Rooney 3rd September 2020, 08:24 AM

I honestly don't think the Kremlin even care anymore what anyone else thinks. I'm not sure what other sanctions the EU could impose again after the Salisbury poisoning. It's absolutely crazy how they deny it. I even think the State probably thinks Russia wasn't responsible.

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉq 3rd September 2020, 08:25 AM

And """Navalny's disease""" is now going to be the cause of a winter prices boost across the country. Damn you Navalny, your health directly affects people's wealth!!! You're thinking The S*n is bad but this country's media is TRULY the TOILET. But before toilets were invented. A hole in the ground. (Which a lot of people still have in the countryside)

Posted by: 💀 Mori 💀 6th November 2020, 03:33 AM

Some rumours/reports swirling around out there (e.g. NYPost) that Putin is planning to step down next year over health concerns.

I'm not holding my breath but if true, very big shifts in world politics right now.

Posted by: b 6th November 2020, 08:56 AM

But he just held a fraudulent rigged election in July the entire point of which was to make him King of Russia for 289 more years. I think the only way he’ll leave office is feet first. These people only value power.

Posted by: Steve201 6th November 2020, 11:51 PM

Medvedev taking over?

Posted by: JackJones 7th November 2020, 02:44 AM

True dat. Saint Petersburg is a beautiful city, too bad u have to suffer since the beauty don't equate acceptance.

Posted by: b 18th January 2021, 10:36 AM

great f***ing day innit :')

Posted by: Quarantilas 18th January 2021, 12:18 PM

I learned about a new Russian airline and a new Moscow airport from this.

It was so obvious this would happen but I guess he felt he couldn’t allow Putin to win by forcing him in exile. Although I have my doubts if he will be allowed to leave custody alive or if he will have an „accident“

Posted by: Rooney 18th January 2021, 12:25 PM

Sounds like is willing to take the risk and he's basically a political martyr now. I don't the first thing about Russian politics, but either way whatever happens this is going to be a win for the opposition. Even if he has a "heart attack" everyone will know it is foul play, it only aids to the opposition cause, which looks to be stronger than Putin probably realised.

Posted by: b 18th January 2021, 12:38 PM

If he dies in custody (which I don't think he will to be honest as the entire world is watching) then all hell will break loose.

Posted by: Rooney 18th January 2021, 12:59 PM

I agree too, there are too many eyes. He obviously knows the risks but it's probably worth it for him. I think the Kremlin were probably caught off guard with how big the crowds were, add this to covid in the background and there is probably more civil unrest than they are aware of. Russia will definitely get some sanctions thrown their way.

Posted by: b 18th January 2021, 01:47 PM

Oh I think they are aware of how people really feel. I don't know a single person in the real world (Twitter bots are a different thing) who supports what is happening. Of course the majority are of a different generation and some are bought to air their backwards views but people are falling out of love with our dictator. They are constantly doubling down to try and tie the loose ends which is logical (for them) but this won't end well for anyone.

Posted by: Rooney 18th January 2021, 04:37 PM

Oh totally I bet, but it is events like this that inspire the future generations. Even with the PR from Putin it does seem like he is losing it and then taking hits out on ex-agents and the opposition shows that he is beginning to lose some form of control too. It does seem like the tide is beginning to turn slightly in Russia, it might take some time still but it does look like it is coming. Be interesting how this one plays out.

Posted by: b 18th January 2021, 04:41 PM

Must be nice to view this from the sidelines haha

Maybe it's because I've been living in the epicenter (Moscow) for 2 years now but I feel like a lot of people are less afraid. Many including 20 year olds go out to protest (even by themselves) knowing very well there's a 99% chance they will get arrested but they do it anyway.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 19th January 2021, 06:02 PM

I'm just blown away by the bravery of people like Kolesnikova and Navalny.

Posted by: b 21st January 2021, 10:07 AM

Shit is going down on Saturday and it's really scary.

Posted by: Iz 💀 21st January 2021, 10:24 AM

A big protest planned?

Stay safe Pav.

Posted by: b 21st January 2021, 10:32 AM

Yeah.

Not sure if attending will be good for my mental health, just thinking about it is giving me HUGE anxiety.

Posted by: Rooney 21st January 2021, 11:19 AM

That video and report about Putin's castle and personal state is absolutely mental. It really does seem like the tide is turning in Russia, like you say Pavel a few years ago this amount of noise would have been unspeakable in Russia with people afraid of dissenting.

Posted by: steve201 22nd January 2021, 11:54 PM

I worry for Russia when Putin disappears, it’s never been a democracy ever and it’s could be mad if there’s a void. I mean apart from 1/2 years in the mid 90s nothing changed from the pre 1991 years apart from the transfer of power from communist oligarchs to capitalist ones under the few who seized the states assets.

Posted by: b 23rd January 2021, 12:08 AM

It's better to plunge into the unknown and get things sorted out on the way there than be kept in a small box with a gun above your head. Trust me.

Posted by: steve201 23rd January 2021, 01:01 AM

Of course but I was merely stating the worries i have of what happens in the power vacuum.

Posted by: b 23rd January 2021, 12:38 PM

I’ve almost literally been glued to Twitter in the past couple of hours. The turnout looks good especially in the regions.

Posted by: steve201 23rd January 2021, 04:43 PM

Wonder if this will be reported on the news here...

Posted by: Doctor Blind 23rd January 2021, 07:01 PM

Don't call them snowflakes...

Posted by: steve201 23rd January 2021, 08:08 PM

Full on snow balls more like!!

Posted by: b 31st January 2021, 11:53 AM

Another wave of protests today and police are now pointing the guns at people, forcing them head first into the snow. There are also reports of detainees being tortured at the stations.

4500 detained last week, so far around 1500+ today.

Posted by: b 31st January 2021, 11:55 AM

Literal George Floyd style arrests too. This will not end well.

Posted by: Suedehead2 31st January 2021, 11:59 AM

The USSR had a habit of ordering the most severe crackdowns when the world's attention was elsewhere. It looks like Putin is carrying on that tradition.

Posted by: b 3rd February 2021, 12:21 PM

My friend got detained yesterday in another wave of protests as Navalny got officially jailed for 2 years and 8 months.

No doubt this will make things so much worse now. Why can't people f***ing open their eyes?! A lot are still arguing that "Navalny is being paid to destroy Russia". Yeah KAREN keep reading those articles and don't forget that the "world government" is set to wipe 90% of the population by implanting a brain chip that will kill us all at one point. Sounds reasonable to me.

Posted by: b 22nd April 2021, 04:12 PM

I'm absolutely FLOORED that she came out yesterday during the protests. SO good. She's blowing up today and most of the comments are positive.

View this post on Instagram

Also weirdly there were very few arrests in Moscow yesterday and the majority are in St Petersburg. The official numbers that are being reported are so much lower than what actually happened, it's pretty funny.

Posted by: steve201 22nd April 2021, 05:15 PM

What’s happening there, haven’t heard much in the media here?

Posted by: Dill Doe 22nd April 2021, 05:23 PM

Russia has been threatening the West and building its troops up along the Ukrainian border. Are the protests rattling Putin or something? The regime seems like it's feeling a little vulnerable, to resort to gunboat diplomacy and threats.

Posted by: steve201 22nd April 2021, 05:40 PM

Does anyone know exactly what’s happened in Ukraine over the past 5 years?

Posted by: b 23rd April 2021, 09:29 AM

This was not the actual reason for the protests but it definitely doesn't help the rat king in regaining popularity.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 8th December 2021, 11:53 PM

Posted by: Christmasteve201 9th December 2021, 08:44 AM

Has NATO not been threatening Russia by expanding its influence??

Posted by: Iz 💀 9th December 2021, 11:01 AM

well yes but it's also been expanding a collection of states that now have collective security from Russia and have essentially zero chance of launching an invasion into Russia the way Russia is signalling it might do with Ukraine.

Posted by: Christmasteve201 9th December 2021, 06:22 PM

The way I read it is they are both as bad as each other. I have no sympathy for Russian or American imperialism. At the end of the day NATO isn’t a collection of states it’s a military alliance to extend American influence (led by America)and capitalism around the world. The military arm of the world bank, Washington alliance etc!

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th January 2022, 05:42 AM

US has ordered families of embassy staff out of Ukraine.

Russia is definitely preparing for something and I hope to god that it is not an invasion but it's starting to look a lot more likely.

Posted by: Rooney 24th January 2022, 09:35 AM

Russia are 100% going to invade Ukraine, it is just whether there is any opposition. It doesn't look likely that the West will deploy troops.

I can't say I'm an expert on the matter, but it just seems like a political game of chess. Russia keep banging on about NATO, but I think it's a load of tosh. I wonder if they are more worried about Ukraine joining both NATO and the EU. I know Russia sees the West as weak currently, but Russia are hardly in an economic prosperity right now either. And if Russia keep trying to get the old USSR back, they're going to find themselves sharing borders with countries part of NATO.

Posted by: Steve201 24th January 2022, 01:45 PM

It’s complicated though, Ukraine is a nation made up of many nationalities including Russian speaking peoples on the eastern border near the Donbas! It’s always been a complex area and is in Russias sphere of influence.

It’s like when Cuba made great friends with Khrushev in 1962, America were up in arms about it (and some would say rightly so)!

Posted by: Rooney 24th January 2022, 02:05 PM

It's very complicated I agree, and part of Putin wanting to control an old-USSR. I am not sure there will be a war, but I'm also not sure what level of sanctions the EU and US will impose on Russia. They of course know the hand is weakened through countries relying on them for gas. Obviously I can't speak for any Russian nationals, but I'd likely suspect this will increase civil unrest in Russia rather than dispel it although maybe more Russians are fascinated by the idea of rebuilding the old Soviet Union than those who are not.

Posted by: Quarantilas 24th January 2022, 02:32 PM

It seems to be a major distraction technique for issues within their borders but also as a method of controlling their own population from getting ideas like the Ukrainians or Belorussians because that is a direct threat to Putin’s power and really like all dictators that’s all he cares about.


Given the Soviet response to Germany post-war and their insistence at the destruction of Prussia (they still hold onto the Capital) and dividing it amongst Russia, Poland and Soviet controlled East Germany as well as the conditions for accepting reunification and their part in the division of Germany really the threat NATO should be implying is that if Russia tries anything they’ll reap what they sowed and Königsberg will be a German city again by the end of the year. As Putin seems to be so hellbent on harking back to the post-WW2 glories of the Soviet Union that’s a threat that wouldn’t be lost on him.


Part of me thinks that these talks are Theatre for the home audience he knows will never succeed so why shouldn’t NATO demand to return of Königsberg. It’s never gonna happen, like NATO withdrawing from Eastern Europe. But if putin wants to play silly c**t and try to destabilise NATO, Ukraine and the EU then you gotta fight fire with fire. Leak a map of the proposed post-war division of Moscow, plans for the Kremlin to become a museum on the dangers of Russian imperial aggression, the division of the Russian Federation into occupation zones but also to smaller independent states, returning territories „acquired“ from other states after WW2.

It’s time to start playing his game and calling his bluff.

Posted by: Steve201 24th January 2022, 10:34 PM

There’s a fascination amongst the west to believe that Putin is like Hitler trying to create a new USSR but that’s propaganda, is it not the same with the US? They insist on having war bases all across the world and try to enforce economic authority through American organisations like the world bank etc, it’s all one and the same modern day colonialism.

Posted by: tommie 24th January 2022, 11:17 PM

A lot of it has to do with NATO. Ukraine can't join if there's an active conflict going on per their rules.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 25th January 2022, 02:54 AM

I'd love for this to happen and for it to go that way but brinkmanship and bullishness is risky, as is him passing it off to his population as Western antagonism. Already we've got people who should know better running defense for him because there are ethnic Russians in Ukraine or some bullshit like that. Putin will just have more justification to feel threatened then.

If Western countries can fully start cutting off Russian oligarchs, freezing accounts and investments the more aggressive Putin gets, he might back down, but that'd be something that'd get pushback over here too as they do own a lot. But those are the people he'd listen to, as they're the ones keeping him in power.



Huge bloody difference between American bases (which also should be pulled back especially in places like Okinawa and Germany - and even then there's an argument that having them there protects against predatory expansion from Russia and China) and seeking to change the government of an independent state* or even annex them through violence.

*and yes of course in cases where the US does this through CIA-backed coups it's also shite, authoritarian interference is bad no matter who it's coming from.

Posted by: Steve201 25th January 2022, 01:43 PM

For me there isn’t a huge lot of difference!

Posted by: Doctor Blind 25th January 2022, 03:53 PM

This! 100% - this would absolutely be the most likely threat to get Putin to back down. Money talks, but Londongrad is doing great from all the money laundering so this threat won't be used, and oligarchs will continue to use and abuse the UK’s libel laws.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 26th January 2022, 06:49 AM

'Should the US and NATO expand alliances and their sphere of influence' and 'Does Russia have cause for invading Ukraine' are really not equivalent questions.

All superpowers do what the US does, China invests in Africa and South East Asia, Russia with states in its orbit. The US has military bases that are staging grounds almost all within and with the permission of its allies - I'm not going to argue they aren't bad, in some cases like Okinawa and Pacific Islanders, they certainly are, and they do serve to keep the USA's neoliberal internationalism alive, but the problem is what would replace that if it were taken away, and it honestly would be worse. Forget internationalism and state cooperation, the other superpowers are already straining to gain influence and real imperialism over what countries they can, if they didn't have a barrier to doing it... well, Putin would have a Russia-friendly government in Ukraine yesterday, for starters.

Posted by: Steve201 26th January 2022, 11:18 PM

I look at the bigger picture in all this and the outcome of the Cold War created a singular world power that dominated and has ate into the Eastern European countries independence swaying them towards US influence ever since and making the Russians seem surrounded it’s inevitable Russia would react.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 27th January 2022, 02:25 PM

Haha, think tank close to Biden administration suggests that the U.K. government is so compromised by Russian money, the US may have to intervene.

Posted by: Suedehead2 2nd February 2022, 05:43 PM

Liz Truss has said that Britain is sending supplies to its "Baltic allies across the Black Sea". Her grasp of geography is clearly on a par with Dominic Raab's. Still, it's not as if she's anything important such as Foreign Secretary. Oh.

Posted by: Quarantilas 2nd February 2022, 07:38 PM

Im sure Georgia is grateful but I’m not sure how Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are feeling

Posted by: Doctor Blind 4th February 2022, 08:07 PM

As we've been discussing here for some time, the way to prevent an escalation in Ukraine is to go after the money-

That will never happen sadly because the government in the UK is so heavily compromised - but remember if things do escalate and if tragically lives are lost - that our government could have done something about it but chose not to.

Posted by: Quarantilas 4th February 2022, 08:31 PM

Absolutely right. The Tories mumble about unexplained wealth orders but in reality they’re toothless and they aren’t given out anywhere near enough. But they won’t go further because their parties funding source would start to run dry pretty quickly.



Latest point of confrontation with the west is Germany va Russia over journalists vs state propaganda. The German authorities told Russia Today, a propaganda network that pretends to be news, that they can’t broadcast with their Serbian license in Germany because they have a studio and full set up here in Germany and so would come under German broadcasting laws and they need a German license to operate (and thus be subject to the conditions that come with that which won’t work with RTs propaganda mission statement). So in retaliation at Germany enforcing their laws within their borders (noting that RT „journalists“ are permitted to work in and report from Germany, they just need to get a proper license to broadcast) the Russian gov revoked all licenses and journalists credentials for DW, threw them on the Foreign Agent list, and basically banned them from operating in the country completely. (DW, or Deutsche Welle - German Wave, is the international public service arms length broadcaster of Germany, basically the bbc world service but with more long words)


Let’s just say the German gov are furious

Posted by: Steve201 4th February 2022, 08:44 PM

Furious enough to support the rest of anti Russian Europe or are they still worried about their gas supply?

Posted by: Quarantilas 4th February 2022, 09:23 PM

Thats a real interesting way to phrase that. Of course a country whose energy sector is heavily reliant on gas is concerned about their gas supply.

Let’s see. Hold back, be in the position to play mediator and not get actively involved in a conflict and rising tensions because memories run DEEEEEEEEEEEP of what happened the last time Germany Bit off More than it could chew with Russia. Or poke the bear and risk total economic collapse of Europes largest economy because Putin shuts off the gas and Germany literally runs out of power

Don’t be a facetious dick

Posted by: Steve201 4th February 2022, 09:46 PM

There’s no need for name calling because I call out the German government for sitting in silence while all this happens. I know your a brand new German now but doesn’t mean they can’t be criticised for their actions!

Posted by: Doctor Blind 4th February 2022, 10:07 PM

Please can I remind everyone of the http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=229722- heated debate is fine but name-calling is not really on!

I didn't realise that about the German public service broadcaster - it follows a similar pattern with other western journalists and is deeply worrying.

Regarding Nord Stream 2, I think the west was very naive to allow Putin to have even greater control over the European energy market, effectively providing a geopolitical lever from which he'll be able to exert a huge amount of power from.

Posted by: Suedehead2 11th February 2022, 06:56 AM

The source for this story is the Russian foreign minister, so we should accept the possibility that it isn't true.

Allegedly, the foreign minister asked Liz Truss whether the UK recognised Russian sovereignty over Rostov and Voronezh. Truss replied that the UK would never recognise them as Russian. The UK ambassador had to have a quiet word in her ear to point out that they are Russian regions. Indeed, their status as Russian is about as controversial as the status of Surrey as part of the UK.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 11th February 2022, 07:39 AM

I believe it because I wouldn't have fallen for it (eu4 player btw) and on evidence she would have. Even if the Foreign Secretary isn't familiar with EVERY region of a country they go to they should at least know the names of all the contentious regions that Russia is involved in - Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, Chechnya, Abkhazia, Ossetia, there we go, easy - and recognise that those aren't among them (additionally, they ARE where Russia is maneuvering its troops which is perhaps the reason the ambassador asked Truss assuming he was acting in good faith and not going for a gotcha). It'd be real nice if one of these days we had a Foreign Secretary who isn't a total moron, geopolitics is so important.

She has no natural charisma either, how is she being talked about as a frontrunner?

~

Despite reports of Biden telling all Americans to leave and BBC seeming to warn that an attack could come at any moment, I am less confident that Russia will do it now, there's too much for them to lose now Ukraine has been clearly armed and supported by the West. At most I can see a strongarm over Donetsk and Luhansk once talks to ease tensions start.

Posted by: Steve201 11th February 2022, 02:40 PM

Liz Truss probably doesn’t know where they are and came up with a made up answer….

Posted by: Suedehead2 11th February 2022, 04:08 PM

That's the point. I wouldn't expect her to be able to list every Russian region. However, she will have been briefed on areas of tension, meaning she should have known the two regions in question were not on that list. The civil servants who prepare briefs for this bunch of numpties must be wondering why they bother.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 15th February 2022, 08:57 AM

Called it.

(re: BBC breaking news update)
also this:

In that it appears that Russia's troops have completed drills and are returning to bases. Of course it's still possible that things could head south but the war hysteria in the media was starting to get real nauseating so I'll cheer any brief respite from that - this is pretty much how de-escalation would start in any case.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 15th February 2022, 10:48 PM

Well, I truly hope so. I struggle to believe anything that is put out by the Kremlin.

Maybe this is a wake-up call for Europe - I think Europe needs to stop relying on rogue states for its energy security and accelerate the move to renewables and/or nuclear. In the meantime, in the UK we need to seriously get a grip on the dirty money:

Posted by: Izzy 💀 17th February 2022, 05:08 AM

Fair, the US are now disputing the claims, and they certainly don't seem to have withdrawn from the border according to multiple national intelligences, perhaps some troops further back had finished some drills. I could see some further action from Russia in the next few weeks or so... full scale invasion, still unlikely.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 20th February 2022, 09:31 AM

May have been glued/glancing at a live tracker all weekend.

I have changed my mind, the Russians will probably be launching an offensive very soon. They've stepped up a lot of instability in Donetsk and Luhansk and NATO/intelligence seems to have their troop movements down too. This is the official date for the end of 'exercises' in any case.

The Russians are claiming that a Ukrainian attack will begin against the Donbas, which will be their cue to strike, although a small part of me doesn't see the Ukrainians deciding that this biggest moment of tension in years is quite the right time to launch a reclamation of these frozen combat zones.

Posted by: Steve201 20th February 2022, 04:31 PM

With the end of the Winter Olympics today wouldn’t be surprised to see this offensive happening this week!

Posted by: Suedehead2 20th February 2022, 04:56 PM

The normal Russian tactic would be to do it while the eyes of the world were elsewhere.

Posted by: cider man 20th February 2022, 04:57 PM

The US Pentagon, according to Sky News, says Russia is preparing to invade "very soon" and could be within hours now. Putin refusing Biden's calls now.

There'll be a lot killed cos they won't just roll over.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 20th February 2022, 05:27 PM

Why??? Events elsewhere help.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 20th February 2022, 11:18 PM

This is true, however the Winter Olympics has hardly stopped eyes being on Ukraine and Russia might consider delaying an invasion to stay on China's good side.

In any case, the drills have not stopped as they were planned in Belarus and more and more reports of explosions and weapons fire is coming out of the Donbas, likely not all from separatist rebels.

Posted by: Silas 21st February 2022, 08:17 PM

So Russia just for all intents and purposes started WW3

Posted by: Chez Wombat 21st February 2022, 09:06 PM

It's getting all too real now This could go well beyond what we saw in 2014

Posted by: Silas 21st February 2022, 09:50 PM

The Adolf Putin has ordered a russian „peacekeeping mission“ in the Donbas. This is standard russian playbook for annexing the territory of states that date to defy it. See also: Georgia

Posted by: Brett-Butler 21st February 2022, 10:05 PM

With Russia now recognising the regions of Donetsk and Luhansk as “breakaway independent states”, will we expect to see two new countries competing in Eurovision next year?

Joking aside, definitely not good. Hoping for a peaceful resolution to the salami tactics, but my hopes grow lesser by the day.

Posted by: Steve201 21st February 2022, 10:44 PM

Probably won’t be recognised lol, same with the football!

Posted by: Rooney 22nd February 2022, 12:23 AM

Seems pretty mad it has come to this, I think Putin has lost the plot personally, going to war and to try and gain control of Ukraine seems absolutely bonkers, almost as if he is concerned about what his legacy as President will be. Even though China seem to want to recognise Ukraine as an indepent state publically, surely there cannot be too much coincidence that Putin plays the game of chess just after the Olympics finish? Probably concerned if he runs out of money, China will back them up. Either way it seems absolutely no-one outside of Putin wants a conflict, and he's got the West where he wants them.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 22nd February 2022, 01:05 AM

Definitely seems like from the recognition of Donetsk and Luhansk that the plan was to make them the same as Crimea, as for the rest of Ukraine, Putin might take an opportunity if he thinks he can get it without (from his perspective) too much hassle. And he'll probably be able to get it if he wants it, to defy him and bring NATO into it risks too much.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 22nd February 2022, 02:40 PM

Putin must be terrified, the US will be banning investment and trade in the 'so-called' independent Donetsk and Luhansk regions, and the EU is planning to..

*checks notes*

.. scrap plans to hold the Champions League final in Saint Petersburg in May. oh no!

Am I the only one who feels like western diplomacy is laughably amateurish and toothless and massively hypocritical. They are just all so useless.

Posted by: Smint 22nd February 2022, 02:54 PM

Of course one of our most influential politicians (depsite never being personally elected he had caused massive change in my view for the worse) Nigel Farage worships the ground that Putin walks on. There's probably many Tory MPs that do so too. They all love a violent homophobic dictator.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 22nd February 2022, 03:07 PM

That's the neoliberal oligarchy for you: absolute trash.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 22nd February 2022, 03:17 PM

why not force the EBU to ban them from Eurovision while they're at it, for all the good it'd do.

The banks and 'wealthy individuals' hit by sanctions tonight might do more but that might also take time for its effects to be felt, I haven't seen enough yet about the details to decide either way.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 22nd February 2022, 03:40 PM

What can you expect the Tories to do, when they are bought and paid by the Russians anyway, especially Common Sense's Bojo the Clown?

Posted by: Doctor Blind 22nd February 2022, 03:53 PM

Yes, and those of us on the left are usually smeared as 'apologists for Russia' which really sticks in the throat when you see how much dirty money the Tories are happy to accept. There is a massive difference between the powerful elite in Russia and its people, many conflate their own Russophobia and Sinophobia when discussing these matters - something that Putin and the Kremlin weaponise against the west by saying to their citizens 'see: told you they were evil and hate us'. The victim mentality is a powerful propagandist tool.

As always the weak and powerless will suffer most.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 22nd February 2022, 04:12 PM

To be fair, there are a disappointingly large amount of "left" figures who are associated with sites like Russia Today, Grayzone, are Marxist-Leninists perhaps. They've been really playing up the 'Ukraine has far-right fascists, Russia might be justified' angle. This is probably more prevalent in America, where they attack American imperialism but cannot fathom what Russia is doing is imperialism when it clearly is.

In Britain it seems like our left is more along the lines of Stop The War types like Corbyn- and I must say Corbyn is woefully uninformed on this issue, he always was a bit weak on foreign policy but he's equated this to Iraq and called for NATO to step back... I'll take uninformed pacifists over red fascists though.

Of course Russia is an evil far-right oligarchy that rules with an iron fist over its unfortunate citizens and anyone supporting them is not a true leftist by any stretch, and though I cannot see it happening I hope that somehow their hubris in this matter backfires on them.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 22nd February 2022, 04:35 PM

Well that's unfortunate - I personally think Corbyn has always come across as well-meaning and perfectly harmless- but yeah, clearly wrong in this case. I mean, maybe if he was reflecting on the 1990 invasion of Kuwait - but I don't think so as there isn't any doubt that the first Gulf War was completely justified and thus his conclusions would not quite have been the same. I don't know why everything seems to come back to the 2003 Iraq War, it has clouded and poisoned the judgement of so many people you'd usually expect to have a decent take.

Meanwhile, Peston remains DIM as ever - wonder if the penny will drop later today?

Posted by: Silas 22nd February 2022, 06:02 PM

The biggest reaction seems to have been Germany putting the paperwork to approve NordStream2 in a pile on the desk of the Berlin immigration office. Basically guarantees that it won’t be seen again for at least 3 years

And that’s it. A pipeline that isn’t even pumping gas at the moment. Everything else is toothless



But the answer is absolutely not appeasement of a war criminal. Can someone order Corbyn some books on the build up to WW2?

Posted by: Suedehead2 22nd February 2022, 06:09 PM

The EU is introducing sanctions against several hundred members of the Duma. The UK is introducing sanctions against *checks notes* three people.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 22nd February 2022, 06:31 PM

Putin abosultely needs China, of course he waited till the Olympics is over. they would have been displeased.

The West threatening a few oligarchs as some sort of actual incentive is more an incentive that it'll all blow over like Crimea did in Putin's eyes. He wants assurance Ukraine won't join NATO, Ukraine not giving it. Russia still controls our fuel supplies one way or another. Gas/Electric bill emails anyone about the price rises? Doubling in price?

Corbyn is and always was a deluded muppet when it comes to states like Russia and others. Happy to chit-chat and chew the cud with mild pleasantries and no actual deserved criticism. Nobody wants War. But if you don't resist loss of democracy (the least-bad system) then you shouldn't be surprised when it suddenly disappears. Unless you have nuclear weapons of course, then no-one will invade you and you have the comfort of not worrying about those that don't. I'm a pacifist, but I'm a realist too. Expecting dictators to play by the rules is insane. It's not as if we haven't had recent examples of how evil power-mad nutters are, and how gullible people are with propaganda and how easily they are persuaded over to the Dark Side....

Eurovision. Russia should not be banned. The booing in Italy from the audience will be a mild embarrassment that they will avoid by being kicked out and giving Putin another "victim-based" speech. Ukraine have already banned their own entrant for visiting the disputed region, where admittedly thousands of people have died in the last 8 years on both sides. Not to mention a plane-load of foreign tourists shot down by Russian-backed separatists, which everyone seems to have forgotten about already. Russia's been responsible for deaths for years and the West did bugger-all about it, and interfering in democracy, and a puppet boob of a US President that licked his arse, so it's hardly a shock that threats about nothing much of consequence didn't exactly work. Plus all Western governments in Europe are going to have inflation problems and voters pissed off, so Putin gets to sow discontent amongst the Western alliance again, it's always been his aim and his game.

Posted by: Silas 22nd February 2022, 06:57 PM

Lightly better than nothing but only lightly

Posted by: Silas 22nd February 2022, 08:29 PM

The United States has come out swinging

So basically everyone has done more than the UK. Johnson is corrupt and needs to be removed, to a jail cell, immediately

Posted by: Smint 23rd February 2022, 10:25 AM

The Republican party in the USA including Donald Trump seem to be almost exclusively praising Putin. Fox News has more venon for Justin Trudeau than Putin for example.

Posted by: Rooney 23rd February 2022, 11:54 AM

The UK's sanctions are pityful. I'm sure they will do more in the future, but I think that will only come from pressure within the Tory MPs who are not tied up to the oligarchs.

Like others have stated, there's room for being a pacifist but Putin has clearly lost his head. He's a madman and as long as he has China behind him, he probably feels invincible. If he gets hold of Ukraine then who knows what he might decide to do next. His obsession with Ukraine is mind-boggling.

Posted by: Steve201 23rd February 2022, 11:57 AM

Well it’s not mind boggling looking into the recent history and the end of the Cold War but he clearly doesn’t care now he’s in his 60s and is prepared to do what it takes to get a legacy and that makes him a very volitile character!

Posted by: Rooney 23rd February 2022, 12:41 PM

Well yes, he's always been unhighed, but this just makes no sense from a financial or strategic point of view. I can't see it being of any gain to the Kremlin, other than to cemet Putin's ego and his own legacy. Tje West is so compromised by Russian money that he feels he can do what he wants - I guess this is a major POV why lots of people are against Chinese influence too, as in 10-20 years time it could massively compromise the West.

Posted by: Steve201 23rd February 2022, 02:56 PM

I would say dominance of the Black Sea would be good for Russia geopolitically and economically and the movement of NATO and westward democracy is not what Russia wants on its borders as their political culture is completely different to the west.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 23rd February 2022, 03:01 PM

It would be very good for Ukraine though. Zelensky seems to be using this crisis to leverage some further security guarantees and by god I hope he gets them. Ukraine could be so much more than the dirt poor poverty-stricken nation it is had it been admitted into NATO and the EU like the Baltic states had. And yes, I am placing the blame of that at foreign policy experts and diplomats afraid of offending Russia because of belief in geopolitical realism as you describe.

Economic interdependence helps prevent wars. A more prosperous Ukraine wouldn't be having this happening.

Posted by: Ring Kollo 23rd February 2022, 06:37 PM

I dont think its worth the world worrying about those two regions in Ukraine Russia has invaded, I mean most of the population there is pro-Russian probably anyway (correct me if I am wrong). I just hope any pro-Ukrainians have got out of the invaded regions already. I dont think Putin will invade any other part of Ukraine, as he will face lots of hostility there from pro-Ukranians.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 23rd February 2022, 08:24 PM

Putin has been sounding more and more unhinged by the day, and is despwrate to restore the USSR-sized Russia. He eants the ehole lot, plus whatever else he can get away with. He knows he is untouchable, thanks to nukes plus Russia, plus his threats to satellites and underwater cables.

Posted by: Silas 23rd February 2022, 08:46 PM

Oh no, the violation of another countries territorial integrity is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for the world to worry about.


That might be the worst take I’ve ever read in this section of the forum

Posted by: Ring Kollo 23rd February 2022, 08:53 PM

I meant its not worth the world worrying too much. I mean it is still is very wrong of Russia to do this, there should have been a referendum in the two regions about which country they want to be part of.

Posted by: Silas 23rd February 2022, 09:11 PM

Please remember that Russian tanks reached Tbilisi the last time this particular playbook was cracked open. If you think Putin is stopping at the current ceasefire line you’re either incredibly naive or, well…

Posted by: Steve201 23rd February 2022, 09:12 PM

He did exactly the same thing in Georgia 10 years ago!

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 04:15 AM

It appears the invasion has begun in earnest in the early hours of Ukraine's morning.

Posted by: J00prstar 24th February 2022, 06:53 AM

I'm incredibly uneasy.

And already upset about the senseless loss of lives for no reason. Just because a little boy who never grew up wants to throw toys around.

No doubt the one in number 10 will do f all today about it.

Posted by: Silas 24th February 2022, 07:31 AM

No level of sanctions will stop him until Kyiv falls and Ukraine is part of Russia against the will of all Ukrainians. This is 1930s and we are rewatching Hitler. Nobody wants a 3rd World War in the west but Russia woke up this morning and chose violence. The illegitimate regime in Belarus is also assisting in the war on Ukraine. If we appease this now with measly “sanctions” then there’s not a single NATO/EU state in the east that will be safe

Chinas quiet is extremely unnerving. If I was Taiwan I’d be shitting bricks right now because I wouldn’t be surprised if they were next while Russia was distracting the world in Ukraine.


Russia needs to be economically destroyed as a consequence, and any regime that finances it or props it up needs the same sanctions. Full trade blockades, completely cut off from financial markets and technology. Then when China steps in, do exactly the same to their finances and enact a complete trade embargo. Both will hurt the west quite severely but if you want to avoid troops on the ground then you have to destroy these countries from within by having the people turn on the government and their military conscripts desert their posts.

Posted by: Ho-Lee Smokes 24th February 2022, 08:43 AM

i honestly don’t see us getting involved

Posted by: Brett-Butler 24th February 2022, 08:54 AM

Well, can't be long until I discover if I'm too old to be conscripted to the inevitable global war.

Posted by: Sour Candy 24th February 2022, 08:57 AM

As a Finn (we fought in a WW2 against Russia) have to agree with this. Putin has Belarus on his side and probably Hungary and China too, although the latter two will not most likely do military actions against Europe but rather act elsewhere and support Russia financially.

What I find interesting is that the Russian people don't seem to support the attack at all so Putin needs to be quick with it. The longer it takes, the worse his position gets.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 24th February 2022, 09:08 AM

The West got fooled into thinking that arse-licking anti-democratic nations for financial benefits was going to be a good idea, that they would have something to lose if they were naughty. I have believed for years that letting Russia and China getting a financial hold over the UK and EU was a bad idea.

Russia has prepared to go it alone for years, and sowed seeds of discontent in the West easy as piss while he was plotting, supporting movements that saw democratic allies as enemies. His number one plan (Trump) didn't come off, so he's taken another route.

People never learn, are easily distracted, swallow propaganda, especially when a flag is used as the excuse.

Never trust anything rich and powerful people say on face value. Compare what they say with what they do.

Posted by: JulianT 24th February 2022, 09:25 AM

My boyfriend is Taiwanese and thinks his family should get out.

Posted by: Rooney 24th February 2022, 09:29 AM

Sad day and what is most un-nevering about all this, is all political and strategic commentators (at least in the public) didn't expect it to play out this way at all. Russia is seemingly about 4 or 5 steps ahead of the West and nobody wants a full on land war. Russia's sphere of influence is so great that the West are ultimately powerless. The sanctions are a good start, but I highly doubt this will be a long war.

Posted by: Last Dreamer 24th February 2022, 09:30 AM

It's lie. Over 80 % (maybe even more) Russians support the independence of Donbass.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 09:31 AM

This is from today... sounds like 'this is the status quo, Taiwan, you are and have always been a part of China, you had better not do anything', as if the small island would do anything against the mainland:

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202202/24/WS6216e079a310cdd39bc889ab.html

Russia should face every sanction imaginable. I am very fearful for everyone in Ukraine right now, those I know, and those I don't. There's someone I speak to online (through vtuber appreciation) who lives in Eastern Ukraine, he's always calling it a shithole but I am worried for him, we spoke about it a few days ago and I can imagine that with the world being so interconnected that many people will know someone affected. War like this should be a thing of the past.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 09:33 AM

I don't my linking abilities to hand right now but give us a source! That is almost certainly not correct. The rallies I saw in Donetsk to 'celebrate Russian protection' were tiny, the ones in Kyiv outside the Russian embassy were huge.

The Donbas region is rightfully part of Ukraine, as is Crimea, as is the whole rest of the country. Russia has no right to be invading and should leave Ukraine's territory immediately.

Posted by: Sour Candy 24th February 2022, 09:37 AM

Whatever Russia says, the truth is probably the opposite lol

Posted by: J00prstar 24th February 2022, 09:43 AM

I don't know how to feel about this.

I don't have an allegiance to countries. If I was in charge I would probably say take it so there wasn't bloodshed. I don't *super* understand the issue unless people are being forced to stay within the borders of whoever owns the new place and not move, or if their lives are going to meaningfully change from the one to the other.

It all seems such a petty reason for people to be getting hurt and losing their lives.

Posted by: Last Dreamer 24th February 2022, 09:48 AM

I talked not about a population of Ukraine or Donbass, but about the citizens of Russia. So you can't blame Putin for it, "the independence of Donbas region" is more like a wish of the majority. If Crimea is Ukraine for you, so Kosovo is a part of Serbia, who was invaded by NATO troops under US leadership.

My position is very simple : I'm against pro-Nazi Ukrainians, but don't support the independence of Donbas too.

Posted by: slowdown73 24th February 2022, 09:56 AM

The situation is extremely concerning but unfortunately Putin is a major threat to any peace, stability or democracy in this world. He lives by his own rules of violence and intimidation. I read in the Guardian today that Trump has referred to him as a ‘genius’ for moving troops into eastern Ukraine.

Posted by: Rooney 24th February 2022, 09:58 AM

The Russian culture is very different to the Ukranian culture. Straight away you lose democracy and the right of free speech, so even though people would be able to stay in their homes, their lives would change and any major dissidents will be tortured, imprisoned or executed. Don't think Putin would waltz in to any of the Baltic states if they are under NATO membership, but if you keep on appeasing Putin who knows what will happen next. For all we know the next Putin waiting in line for succession could be even worse.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 09:59 AM

And I also do not trust what is reported as the wishes of the Russian population and you should not either. You cannot trust them in a state where people are afraid to speak out against the government.

Crimea and Kosovo are not remotely comparable either - for one thing, Kosovo wasn't used in a political power game; annexed to a larger nation state because they, Russia, could and no one was willing to stop them.

Russia's leadership is further right and more comparable to the Nazis than Ukraine's leadership, jesus.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 10:05 AM

I imagine that if successful and undeterred by what he's doing in Ukraine, talks will begin with Lukashenko to try and reintegrate Belarus, as well as Kazakhstan's beleaguered leadership, at least make them both essentially vassal states, although I suppose you could describe them as such already.

After that it's possible that he's still itchy and he may start finding some areas along the Baltic borders that speak Russian, more 'I'm not invading, we just have concerns' shit. NATO/the West's response must be economic and it has to hit Russia hard.

Posted by: J00prstar 24th February 2022, 10:05 AM

gosh. I didn't realise Russia was still like that. :/

Posted by: Last Dreamer 24th February 2022, 10:12 AM

Lie, again. Our anti-Kremlin opposition lied a lot about it, but they are free to speak everything against Putin, be pro-Ukraine in the conflict e.t.c.

As Russian resident I can say that the majority are support the independence, somewhere 10 % against it, because they are anti-Kremlin opposition and the same percentage of people (like me) who don't support Donbass for other reasons.

No, you are wrong. Just read about Stepan Bandera in Wikipedia, who is a hero of modern Ukraine. To be honesty I don't know how Poland can support Ukraine in this situation.

Posted by: awardinary 24th February 2022, 10:15 AM

Did you know, people of my religious faith (Jehovah’s Witnesses) have been labelled as extremists by the Russian Orthodox Church and religious buildings have been seized by the Russian government since 2018 and individuals practicing their faith freely have been arrested, persecuted and imprisoned for their faith. This really affects me personally.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 10:25 AM

Uh huh. Cool. Let's say you're right, that the Russian people aren't being intimidated into politically keeping quiet and 80% of them support the Donbass being independent and are being war cheerleaders for Putin. Let's say 99% of them want to march tanks into Kyiv and declare a new USSR. I don't care. Russia's actions are wrong, the territory is Ukrainian, and the Russian population are not going to be living in war-torn regions for the foreseeable future so they can quite frankly get to f***.

But I do believe that if Russia are properly sanctioned, they will not support the attack and I do believe that any reports of them being that much in support of the attack even now are very dubious and not to be trusted.

I am aware of Stepan Bandera. I do not believe his beliefs are informing the Ukrainian government's actions in the slightest.

Posted by: Last Dreamer 24th February 2022, 10:45 AM

Putin don't want to build new USSR, he even cancelled 7th November (important celebration for all pro-Soviet people like me).

There are almost nothing similar between Soviet Union and Russia (since 1992).

Soviet Union
1. no povetry and no very rich people
2. no unemployment
3. relatively developed industry
4. friendship between all nationalities from 15 republics
5. free education for everyone
6. free medicine for everyone

1,2,3 are obviously not about Russia (since 1992). 4 is 50\50, because there are a lot of conflicts between Russians and migrants from Asian ex-Soviet republics.
Also Caucasian peoples don't like Russians, even if they live and work in my home city. 5 and 6 are still true, but on more weaker level than in Soviet Union.

Posted by: Smint 24th February 2022, 11:06 AM

Well we involved are by helping Putin's cronies with dirty money laundering and appeasing by freezing a couple of bank accounts in way of sanctions.

Posted by: Last Dreamer 24th February 2022, 11:16 AM

I'm apolitical person (always was, always will), but this sitatuation makes me very sad.

I don't care about Ukraine and those two illegal republics, but in a current situation very worried about Belarus, Baltic sisters and our Kaliningrad Oblast.
It's scary to be between the sledge-hammer and the anvil. They didn't select to be a part of civil war in Ukraine and conflict between governments of United States and Russia.

Posted by: J00prstar 24th February 2022, 11:54 AM

I saw videos of bombs falling today. It was very intimidating. It reminded me of a book I read written by a woman living in Iran during the airstrikes.

Definitely frightening to think that some people have had targets ready and set to fall on places around the world at the push of a button for weeks if not years. The selfishness is just upsetting.

Posted by: Mack. 24th February 2022, 01:11 PM

Lithuania's president has declared a state of emergency, according to the Reuters news agency.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 24th February 2022, 01:22 PM

Russia has been shit-stirring in other nations business same as China, same as the West. Main difference is the West aims to let nations choose their own destiny. Russia and China aim to make them do what they want them to do. Both have a very bad record on human rights. That means ethnic groups that don't fit in, being gay, religions. Wearing a suit and having a car and a job doesn't mean you believe in equality for all.

Both countries have very very rich people, Half of them live in London or have interests across the world, so the notion that they don't is as fake as Trump is, and has shown himself to be. Liars are liars. If Ukraine has a bad record on human rights it should be fairly easy to provide concrete examples. As soon as anyone speaks out against Russia they get murdered or closed down - this is a fact of life in the UK as "enemies" of Putin tend to have sudden deaths from radioactive materials or specialised Russian touch-sensitive poisons while persons from Russia are visiting the wonderful city of Salisbury to see it's world famous spire (not!). The British government has allowed this to go on - what the f*** sort of relationship did you think was building with Russia when things carried on as normal despite this. Shhh don't rock the boat, they are paying for us, it's fine, they'll never invade a neighbour against their wishes.

Posted by: Sour Candy 24th February 2022, 01:54 PM

Regarding Russian people's attitude towards the war, the Finnish news correspondent wrote:

"It is difficult for Russians to understand how Russia can attack Ukraine, which it regards as "a brother nation".

Despite the propaganda spewed by the Kreml, many citizens oppose the war. Russian-language social media are flooded with expressions of sympathy for Ukraine. People are posting Ukrainian flags and calling for peace.

The decision to attack was made in a very small inner circle and came as a surprise to the entire Russian people - including those working in the country's administration.

The Kremlin has effectively dismantled the entire opposition in the country, preventing demonstrations from taking place and taking control of most of the media. There has been an attempt to silence the voices against the war in advance."

Also:

So I think it doesn't bode well for the longer war domestically. But we'll see.

Posted by: J00prstar 24th February 2022, 02:34 PM

I heard a rumour that Putin is terminal and this is why he is acting now to do these bold moves.

Posted by: Smint 24th February 2022, 04:16 PM

Apparently Eurovision NOT banning Russia from the contest! WTF?

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/02/24/eurovision-russia-ukraine-invasion/

Posted by: Mack. 24th February 2022, 04:23 PM

I have no words, flipping heck.

Posted by: Brett-Butler 24th February 2022, 05:21 PM

My cousin's wife is from Ukraine. Heard today that the airfields near her family's city was bombed this morning, so things have ended up getting a little close to home. I'm not sure if they're going to stick around or looking to get out of Ukraine.

Posted by: Steve201 24th February 2022, 05:42 PM

What is the actual difference between Russia and Ukraine culturally etc?

Posted by: Ring Kollo 24th February 2022, 05:44 PM

How wrong I was! I thought Putin would only invade the two pro-Russian regions. Obviously Russia invading hostile pro-Ukrainian territory is completely out of order.

Posted by: Chartfridays 24th February 2022, 05:53 PM

Is anyone else getting really concerned that once he has Ukraine he'll invade a NATO country, at which point we could be looking at land war with British soldiers in Europe?

Posted by: Chez Wombat 24th February 2022, 05:55 PM

I'd say he wouldn't dare unless one of them actually sends troops, but then I didn't expect it to go this far so who the hell knows :/

What a truly dark day, this should not be happening in the 21st Century.

Posted by: callmeDim 24th February 2022, 06:20 PM

so so sooooo devastated, guys
so sad to read it all and see it all
it really was sort of out of nowhere
I approve everything about 'brother nation' and stuff, all the people from my circle don't understand the real purpose of this step
I have some friends and relatives in Ukraine and wish everyone's well
and yeah, the level of fear among our citizens was never that high, fear to say smth that doesn't fit, fear for our future, fear for our neighbors...

Posted by: callmeDim 24th February 2022, 06:29 PM

kinda difficult to tell tbh
you know, the Ukrainian people are sort of gradiented (is it possible to say?) from West to East, Western ones being close to Poland state of mind, while Eastern people sometimes doesn't even know Ukrainian, speaking Russian and being close to Russian people in mind
as far as I can say, according to my own observations, these two nations are/were quite close
feel free to ask about any potentially different/similar things in our culture, I'll try to answer from my point of view

Kaliningrad, hold on guys. Geolocation of the region really doesn't work well nowadays in terms of safety. Wish you the best.

Posted by: Steve201 24th February 2022, 06:29 PM

Why wouldn’t he? The iron curtain included countries right up to Germany!

Hungary would also be one neutral or friendly nation as well as the former Yugoslavia!

Posted by: Ring Kollo 24th February 2022, 06:33 PM

Does Orban get on well with Putin I wonder? They do have a few things in common!

Posted by: Steve201 24th February 2022, 06:35 PM

Yeh they are allies!

2 so called hard men with suspect records of human rights and freedom of the press.

Posted by: Silas 24th February 2022, 06:55 PM

It ran through the middle of Germany!!!


Berlin still wears the scars from the last time the Russians visited

Posted by: Silas 24th February 2022, 06:57 PM

Orban lists after Putins power and control but his population is extremely pro-EU and his pockets are lined by EU funds so he will fall in line. He will grumble but he will fall in line

Posted by: Bdelita 24th February 2022, 06:59 PM

I've never been more ashamed of being Russian than I was today.

Posted by: dandy* 24th February 2022, 07:08 PM

I've been spending today largely in shock about all of this, I find it difficult to believe it's actually happening in this day and age

Posted by: dhwhore 24th February 2022, 07:17 PM

solidarity to ordinary ukrainians held hostage in all of this and to the ordinary russians in the streets right now risking it all to speak out. won't pretend to be an expert on any of this and that's all I can really say

Posted by: J00prstar 24th February 2022, 08:10 PM

Do you know what the story is on the ground?

Posted by: Popchartfreak 24th February 2022, 08:11 PM

The Russian people didn't get together and invade, it was a former KGB agent with a penchant for murder and an inflated sense of his own importance cos he's been in power too long and longs for the old days when he could Lord it over everyone else right up to the border with West Germany. The sad thing is we are all going to be much worse off, but Putin won't go until he's made to go. A declining standard of living is always a good incentive for change. Unfortunately one of the biggest boosters of popularity for politicians is a good old fashioned war, so I expect it'll be down to the other powerful people around him to provide a coup if it all goes tits up from a Russian point of view.

Posted by: Steve201 24th February 2022, 08:12 PM

Indeed!

Posted by: JamBlade 24th February 2022, 09:10 PM

It was heart breaking when this came out in 2016 after the Crimean annexation and the Donbas war, now in 2022 it's devastating. Now will people listen to Ukraine and take them seriously. Because I'm pretty sure Putin won't stop at Ukraine.



Слава Україні!

Posted by: JamBlade 24th February 2022, 09:22 PM

Putin has clearly lost it. The moment he declared to the world on television that Ukraine wasn't a real country, I knew 100% that Russia was going to invade. So now Europe has a madman with nuclear weapons and they're still buying his gas. Europe has a big decision to make, either make the tough sacrifices now or they're risking World War 3.

Posted by: Ho-Lee Smokes 24th February 2022, 09:30 PM

the moment nato get involved the moment russia shit themselves let’s get it done

Posted by: Steve201 24th February 2022, 09:32 PM

They have nukes though which is why they wont!

Posted by: JamBlade 24th February 2022, 09:39 PM

If Russia attacks the Baltic countries or Poland which I think is likely, then yes NATO would be involved. Like I said, Putin has lost his mind and no talking to him will stop him.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 10:09 PM

NATO won't get involved. I'd say unfortunately but Steve is right there, it risks too much. The only reason NATO still exists is as a defensive alliance against Russia, they don't initiate military operations and if they planned to defend Ukraine they'd have been stationed in there.

It really sucks but there's nothing we can do aside from watch and hope that Russia gets choked economically (and culturally, fck those EBU cowards) and diplomatically shut out of all aside from their cronies.

Posted by: Suedehead2 24th February 2022, 10:11 PM

If Putin attacks a NATO state, they will be obliged to get involved under the NATO treaty.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 10:15 PM

Naturally, I mean in the current situation.

I neglected to say that because I think that Russia also understands that attacking a NATO member would be suicide.

Posted by: Steve201 24th February 2022, 10:25 PM

Indeed which is why they don’t want Ukraine becoming a member of NATO.

Posted by: Ring Kollo 24th February 2022, 10:35 PM

I don't think he will invade any NATO countries as that would be far too risky for him. What about the central Asian countries of Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc. could he invade those or are the regimes there allied with him?

Posted by: Izzy 💀 24th February 2022, 10:38 PM

Allied and basically puppet states or too poor to be worth bothering about. It’s not like he’s out for bloodlust, Ukraine was a pretty specific target. If there’s another one I’d imagine it would be Georgia but let’s hope the sanctions make even that unviable pretty quickly eh?

Posted by: JamBlade 24th February 2022, 10:39 PM

I just hope many of the Russian soldiers hearts aren't into fighting the Ukrainian people and it doesn't turn out to be as simple as Putin wants it to be. I can only compare it to the UK fighting Australia which wouldn't make any sense and would be like killing your own family.

Posted by: JamBlade 24th February 2022, 10:49 PM

Recently there was an uprising in Kazakhstan known as Bloody January, Russia got involved there and quickly helped in squashing that. I don't think Russian troops are still stationed there now.

I can't see the central Asian countries going against Putin, although Russia is curious about their alliance with China. The world needs to keep an eye on Taiwan too, I wouldn't be surprised if Putin and Xi Jinping had some disturbing conversations at the Olympics opening ceremony.

Posted by: Bdelita 25th February 2022, 08:47 AM

From what I know the vast majority of soldiers involved in this are contractors without much education so they can be easily gaslit, swayed by money and having their own little source of power. We had witnessed the heartlessness of some of them previously during the Navalny-related demonstrations so if they are willing to turn against their own people then it will be so much easier to turn them against Ukrainians. Plus they frankly have no choice but to comply or get jailed/kicked out. Russians have to all stand up against this and I don't see it happening at all for now - the level of fear or ignorance is insanely high.

Posted by: Severin 25th February 2022, 10:23 AM

I suspect Putin may well take Kyiv, force the government (probably one he installs) to sign a pro-Russian treaty and possibly partition the country into East and West before scaling back the Russian presence. He can probably hold the East comfortably due to there being a large number of ethnic Russians but the Western half would provide too much unrest. He can claim to be protecting Russian peoples, provide a buffer state between Russia and NATO countries and give himself the desired corridor to the Black Sea.

Not so much WWIII as Cold War 2

Posted by: Izzy 💀 25th February 2022, 11:22 AM

Seeing destruction in Kyiv and Kharkiv is heartbreaking.

Seems like Russia's turning to Asian trading partners to shore up its economy, which might unfortunately give them enough to stay in the war.

Posted by: Ho-Lee Smokes 25th February 2022, 11:30 AM

I’m glad Ukraine are attacking back but i fear the more they fight back the more unhinged Putin is going to come as yesterday can be seen as a failure for Russia.

Russia will not attack any Nato countries either, Russia know what they are doing, Germany, Italy etc aren’t imposing sanctions because Russia control the majority of their energy

Posted by: Bdelita 25th February 2022, 11:38 AM

Tanks are purposefully running over and squashing cars with passengers in the middle of the day, residential buildings are being bombed, more than 100 people have died. Russia is blocking the internet inside the country and violently detains people at demonstrations against war (ironic, I know, given on 9th May they will celebrate victory against fascism and the end of WWII). The heat was turned up way too high for it to be a cold war but we'll see how these coming days turn out. My prediction is it will get much much worse.

Posted by: Bdelita 25th February 2022, 11:48 AM

Some Ukrainian navy soldiers were also reportedly being given a chance to switch sides and promised... you guessed it... money (:

In the end they all died.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 25th February 2022, 11:59 AM

That reminded me of some incredible bravery shown by the now sadly deceased Ukrainian guards of Snake Island, a tiny island that marks the extent of Ukraine's territorial waters in the Western Black Sea.



This is not going to be easy for Russia to hold. Occupying countries is a tremendous endeavour even when the occupier has the most powerful military on the planet and they're trying for a rural backwater. And the occupation of Ukraine will be way more difficult than the occupation of Afghanistan.

Stories like the above will be used as inspiration for the Ukrainian defence. Which is to say it'll get dirty, but I don't think Ukraine's going to fold and I don't think they should either.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 25th February 2022, 12:11 PM

I can't see it being as difficult as Afghanistan, particularly considering that Ukraine was part ot thr USSR. Afghanistan is known as thw graveyard of empires, and everything about it, fron topology and geopgrahy, to culture and weaponry, defies invading nations.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 25th February 2022, 12:11 PM

I can't see it being as difficult as Afghanistan, particularly considering that Ukraine was part ot thr USSR. Afghanistan is known as thw graveyard of empires, and everything about it, fron topology and geopgrahy, to culture and weaponry, defies invading nations.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 25th February 2022, 12:11 PM

I can't see it being as difficult as Afghanistan, particularly considering that Ukraine was part ot thr USSR. Afghanistan is known as thw graveyard of empires, and everything about it, fron topology and geopgrahy, to culture and weaponry, defies invading nations.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 25th February 2022, 12:16 PM

Not to completely go all armchair general, but with Ukraine you're going to have a lot of urban warfare and the power differential between Russia and Ukraine is much closer than between America and Afghanistan.

It pains me to think about these beautiful cities being destroyed but Russia needs to somehow be ground down.

Posted by: Severin 25th February 2022, 12:24 PM

This is much more akin to the Warsaw Pact's invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968 than it is to Afghanistan. True, Ukraine is putting up stronger resistance but it has already lost air superiority and is both outgunned and outranged against the Russian forces. Especially once Antonov Airport falls. Then Putiin can supply and reinforce at will. Ukraine's 'best' hope of winning this is to turn Kiev into Stalingrad and I don't see that happening

Posted by: Skankhunt43 25th February 2022, 12:27 PM

Russia is right next door, able to mobilise its entire army and strength against it, and able to attack and impose control from thrww sides. Afghanistan is on the other side of the world from the Us, and required vulnerable NATO convoys.

Posted by: Severin 25th February 2022, 12:32 PM

I assumed you were referring to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

But we're both saying Russia will find this easier

Posted by: Skankhunt43 25th February 2022, 12:48 PM

I was replying to Iz!

Posted by: Severin 25th February 2022, 12:59 PM

My bad. Ignore me I'm an idiot

Posted by: Smint 25th February 2022, 03:38 PM

Germany and Italy not covering themselves in glory here by preventing the blocking of the SWIFT finance system to be blocked and with it a method to hit the Russians where it hurts.

Posted by: cider man 25th February 2022, 05:06 PM

Russia kicked out of ESC and Russian GP cancelled. Champions League final will be moved too.

Calls for them to be banned from the World Cup too.

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 25th February 2022, 06:04 PM

Cultural sanctions can be just as powerful, if not even moreso in changing the hearts and minds in Russia. We desperately need the Russian people and/or the people propping up Putin to rise against him.

I have a horrible feeling he won't stop at installing a puppet government in Ukraine.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 25th February 2022, 07:52 PM

Putins been building up cash in China for years, and moving to the East generally and away from the West.

Almost as if he's been planning it. Funny that. Funny Trump loves Russia and China, almost as if he were an asset as part of the original plan if he'd got that second term, with Trump trying to destabilise NATO and The EU with endless criticism and not co-operating while bigging up North Korea and his family putting shitloads of cash into China. Funny that.

And then the American voters went and spoilt it all by voting in a President that will support NATO and enforce sanctions.

No wonder Putin is hopping mad and frothing at the mouth. It could all have been a coup de grace with not so much aftermath.

Posted by: JamBlade 25th February 2022, 09:36 PM

The Ukrainian soldiers are fighting really hard, the Ukrainian people are truly special. They just need to keep resisting Putin's Nazi soldiers, kill as many of them as possible. The longer this goes on, the weaker Putin will look.

Posted by: Suedehead2 25th February 2022, 09:37 PM

Various European countries, including those such as Poland who have proved very reluctant to accept refugees in the past, are stating that they will welcome Ukrainian refugees. The UK isn't. Indeed, the UK has stopped issuing visas to Ukrainians. This is what we have become under Johnson, Mogg, Patel et al.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 25th February 2022, 09:40 PM

This far right regime is terrible and financed by Putin.

Posted by: JamBlade 25th February 2022, 09:48 PM

That's a bad move from the British government, we've helped people from Hong Kong, we should do the same for Ukrainians.

Posted by: T Boy 25th February 2022, 09:50 PM

Mark Drakeford has said Wales will welcome refugees. Of course, as right wind English media would have you believe, he’ll have only said that to be different.

Posted by: Dast Lreamer 25th February 2022, 10:28 PM

He might like Russia and Putin, but he certainly doesn't like China!

Posted by: Rooney 25th February 2022, 11:38 PM

The bit I am really struggling to get, is will Putin just take Kyiv (which he is looking to do tonight) or will he for the whole country? I see absolutely no way he can take the whole of Ukraine there will be way too much resistance. By all accounts it sounds as if the Russian ground troops are performing poorer than expected. The big worry here is Putin has completely lost it and he could go nuclear.

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 12:07 AM

Im not so sure he’ll take Kyiv. Sounds like the Ukrainians are proving to be a much tougher fight than they expected



Germany is on standby for refugees too. The centres here have already been activated and put on alert

Posted by: Skankhunt43 26th February 2022, 01:31 AM

Ukraine is right on Putin's doorstep. He can attack from three sides, and flood troops in from all directions along the Ukraine-Eussia/Belarus borders, opening up multiple fronts. He has air and sea superiority, and has troop numbers well in-excess of 1 million. He in no way needs to go nuclear. Ukraine can hold out, and I hope it does, BUT at some point it will fall. With how close Kyiv is to Belarus, it will fall sooner rather than later. With Western weaponry and an armed citizenry, the country COULD potentially hols for a time, the Russian army has penetrated deeply across multiple fronts, and Ukraine, like Poland, suffers from flat topography, and isn't sufficiently large enough or with enough rugged, sparse terrain to impede Russia with its geography either. Russia is already overrunning it; there are no trenches, no fortifications, no lines of defence, etc. Because of all of this, even though he is FUMING that his master plan of Trump and Brexshit and a far right British regime being completely at odds with the rest of Europe fell through, and seems to have become completely unhinged he will not go nuclear. There is, 1. Really no need, 2. Already massive malcontent amongst his population regarding this war, and 3. Nukes might bring in foreign forces, and might also end theflow of Chinese money and support.

Posted by: J00prstar 26th February 2022, 02:16 AM

Surely a nuclear strike would have devastating effects beyond the immediate area of impact? I'm aghast that such a thing would even be considered.

Especially given surely the goal here is to gain territory?

Posted by: Skankhunt43 26th February 2022, 02:23 AM

Exactly! Nuking territory anywhere is a bad idea, ESPECIALLY when it is RIGHT NEXT DOOR. Radiation travels. Also, given that Putin has been screaming that Ukraine is an alienable part of Russia, that he has never accepted its independence, that Ukraine IS Russia, he obviously sees it as his territory already. So! Why would he nuke ehat he sees as his own territory, and in doing so set the people against him permanently? Basically, 4. Nuking somewhere so close to your mainland is just ridiculous. Radiation, for starters. 5. He sees Ukraine as part of Russia. He will not nuke what he sees as Russia.

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 04:06 AM

There's absolutely no way in hell he'd nuke Ukraine, the bigger concern is that he nukes a western nation he perceives to be aiding the Ukranians.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 26th February 2022, 06:47 AM

Kazakhstan's rebuffing Russia, and they're supposed to be a close ally. I don't think this is going the way the Russians expected it to, now of course they have a lot of resources and can keep going, but Ukraine is putting up a great psychological defence and it seems, real defence too.

Zelensky is really rising to the occasion, constantly posting videos of him still in Kyiv, reassuring his people, denying offers to evacuate, I can imagine he's a huge target for the Russians but he's doing great as the face of the defense.

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 09:02 AM

Kyiv held the night, again. The imperialists have found a lot more resistance than they expected. But a lot of the captured invaders appear to be young conscripts. Little worrying, what are they holding back and for whom

Posted by: Skankhunt43 26th February 2022, 09:27 AM

I think they are this desperate, as they are preparing for a potential WW3 and want a buffer state. They are holding back in preparation for that

Posted by: JamBlade 26th February 2022, 09:46 AM

Ukraine have been very impressive in defending their country, so far this is definitely not going to plan for the evil Nazi Putin and his followers.

As every day goes by, the world wants to see Ukraine win this war, Russia is a pariah country which they deserve for dragging the European continent to this point.

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 09:49 AM

Holding back is a large part of warfare - you need healthy armed forces to replace your inevitable losses. If they went in all guns blazing and took the place in a few days against the current level of insurgency the loss of life would be great, Russia probably wants to avoid drafting in people aren't already part of their military into this conflict to fight (as despite the claims to the outside world, they know many Russians feel its not worth it over a territorial dispute). And yes, they probably also have armed forces staged near NATO countries that border Russia as a buffer against NATO going too far in assisting Ukraine.

Posted by: Sour Candy 26th February 2022, 09:54 AM

Putin and his generals don't care what the PEOPLE want. Otherwise he wouldn't do all the lying, propaganda bullshit, preventing people accessing social media etc.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 26th February 2022, 10:02 AM

I do think sending in untrained soldiers with valuable tanks is a bit of a tactical misfire though, so either they really all are unmotivated to be getting into this war or they made a mistake losing all the hardware they have so far. Might be different troops, but I do get the sense that there's not exactly a GLUT of battle-hardened Russian troops in Ukraine or even in reserve.

And a blitzkrieg would have been far better for them than any long-play, time is against Russia, with every passing day they become more of an international pariah, Ukrainian troops bunker down in more fortified positions, and the ground becomes less firm in all of Ukraine's wetlands.

Posted by: blacksquare 26th February 2022, 10:19 AM

This seems like a good thread on Putin and his aims — and mistakes. I have been trying to wrap my head around it all week.

Posted by: Sour Candy 26th February 2022, 11:54 AM

That's a good thread, thanks for sharing!

Posted by: Mack. 26th February 2022, 12:09 PM

A Russian cargo ship has been seized in the English Channel.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 26th February 2022, 12:28 PM

A Russian cargo ship has been seized in the Channel by France.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 26th February 2022, 12:40 PM

He got into a public strop, but the Trump family empire has loads of cash and business in China, just like Putin. Follow the money.....

Posted by: Popchartfreak 26th February 2022, 12:47 PM

Not to mention all the billionaire Russians and businesses based in the UK that are not getting sanctioned, but are by the USA. I wouldn't believe a word that a member of the Tory government said, they have proved to be consistent liars about everything. "we've put sanctions against a hundred Russians" = 4 or 5. Makes one wonder if they're frightened one of them will say something about financial or political support to the Tory Party if they upset them.....

Friends of the rich and powerful, not giving a toss about people in need. Who coulda guessed?!

Posted by: Steve201 26th February 2022, 12:54 PM

It’s a lot easier for Poland to agree to Ukrainian refugees in comparison to say people from outside of Europe due to the geopolitical arguement and anti Russian feeling in their countries as well as the fact Ukrainians and this part of Eastern Europe are their people on the most part the ethnicities are so complex and intertwined.

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 01:36 PM

Theres a lot of talk about hybrid warfare and the information war. Typically with its army of bots this is something we consider Russia to be good and strong at



Hahahahahahaha not any f***ing more. They’ve been outflanked and outmanoeuvred every step of the way. First by the Americans literally publishing all the Intel to the worlds media. And now Ukraine is dominating the information war online.

I don’t think you can argue any longer about the Ukraines place in the world. It’s in NATO. It’s in the EU. It’s in Europe.

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 01:43 PM

I mean the UK is refusing refugees on the same basis that these countrys have previously refused refugees 'first safe country'.

Poland is the first safe country for many Ukranians, the UK is the other side of Europe.

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 01:49 PM

It's neither in NATO or the EU, if it was Vladimir Putin would have not attacked it as he'd have known the amount of resistance he would have faced would have been far greater than simple 'military aid', if we decide that Ukraine is NATO territory we're obliged to send western armies, are you prepared to risk thousands and thousands of young mens lives for the sake of a single country in a war that could last generations?

I'm honestly scared by some people's almost enjoyment at the idea of this escalating into a full scale Russia-NATO war. The whole purpose of providing military assistance in Ukraine is to prevent the kind of ground war that many seem to be licking their lips at on here. Do you really want to send your son, your brother or your dad to die when Putin's not got enough troops on the ground to occupy the whole of Ukraine and will struggle to maintain the area east of the river? Of course should there be a genuine threat to a NATO country, I like many others will encourage the government to and personally do whatever I can to defend that territory (including should medical exemptions be relaxed as has happened in previous wars, go and fight) , but if NATO makes the first move in sending troops to Ukraine that would be a significant political miscalculation and play straight into Putin's hands - that's why it's not been done.

Posted by: Bdelita 26th February 2022, 03:18 PM

It’s not just a “territory”, it’s a country with real people.

Posted by: Bdelita 26th February 2022, 03:29 PM

That’s one (pathetic) way to justify UK’s xenophobia and racism. And it’s sad to see someone justifying or pretending this is even a way to go in our current globalised world.

Also, will Poland be able to take ALL the refugees? Of course not.

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 03:37 PM

Fully aware of what alliances the Ukraine is a member of. Would like to invite you to re-read. „…can no longer argue about the ukraines PLACE in the world. IT (ie The Ukraines place) is in NATO. IT (again, the ukraines place) is in the EU.“ and now you’ve re-read and hopefully actually understood my point you can withdraw the words you’re trying to put in my mouth

The only thing I want is the Russians to return to Russia and if they need a little help to find their way back over the border, then we should be giving it

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 03:39 PM

You’re right it’s absolutely disgusting


The first refugees have arrived in Berlin. The state is appealing for folks to help with translation and form filling currently.

Posted by: Sour Candy 26th February 2022, 03:45 PM

While I find the racism in receiving refugees and immigrants disgusting, it seems that every country is willing to help Ukraine here. The war is not justified in ANY MEANS and all countries agree on that and thus they are happy to help. In Finland, we have space for thousands of refugees already and will find more if needed.

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 03:47 PM

Almost every country. The UK is claiming to but is making it so difficult it would be easier to get asylum anywhere else on earth

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 03:51 PM

Yes, it's a country with real people, most of whom - aside from those men of fighting age - have fled to safety. That's sad and horrible for them, and something no-one should ever have to go through - however it's not 1914 or 1939 and sending troops into defend 'democracy' is not going to be as simple and likely to be even more deadly, with far more dangerous technologies around now than were then. It's tremendously sad and horrible to see this happen to Ukraine, but sending British troops into Ukraine - a non NATO country - is an escalation to a full scale world war and would risk scaring Putin into invading a NATO country that bordered Russia - I'd honestly hazard that's why he has so few troops in Ukraine itself - as he's waiting for an excuse from the west's actions with military stationed on other borders, I can't believe anyone in the UK truly wants that. What's happening in Ukraine is devastating to watch, but what would happen if we sent troops into Ukraine is not even worth thinking about - NATO countries have been desperately scaling back their military spending for decades - Russia has been expanding theirs, both the US and Russia have access to nuclear weapons. Afghanistan served the purpose of avoiding war in Europe for the past 20 or so years, as a proxy war - actions in the next few days and months between NATO and Russia regarding Ukraine could seriously decide whether this war is contained to Ukraine or spreads beyond, and I ask the question again, is the sake of one country worth hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives? Until we know whether Putin truly intends just to take Ukraine or wishes to invade a NATO country, it's a ridiculously dangerous idea to send troops - it's absolutely right to help Ukranians defend themselves.

Long term, the world may have to resign itself to the fact allowing Russia to occupy at least the Eastern part of Ukraine with only limited 'military aid' to Ukraine and absolutely no NATO troops on the ground, is the only way to prevent Vladimir Putin going completely power-hungry for other nations bordering Russia - we've already seen the unhinged threats of catastrophe and consequences if Finland and Sweden join NATO.

I'm not going to apologise for suggesting that rushing into a world war for the sake of a single country is a bad idea. It's amazing how quickly 'never again' can be forgotten - get everybody out of Ukraine that we can and provide them sanctuary but don't poke a beast that is clearly willing to go over most lines.

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 03:53 PM

But your point is wrong, because the fact Ukraine isn't either in NATO or EU is exactly the reason we have this war in the first place, it's complete garbage to suggest that this war has shifted it's place in the world, otherwise we'd have sent troops we haven't.

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 03:55 PM

I never said it was right, I was explaining the justification. We should accept migrants, but the governments logic is exactly the same logic that Poland used to refusing Syrians to disguise their literal racism on it.

Posted by: Sour Candy 26th February 2022, 04:12 PM

No not really, UN has stated that there are around 180k refugees so far. The country has 44 million inhabitants.

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 04:15 PM

There's a large part of Western Ukraine that is not a warzone. Reports that many captured Russian soldiers are claiming they didn't know they were being sent to Ukraine and wouldn't have gone if they did- obviously that might be the pleading attempt of men facing death, but could be the reality, if so surely a good chance Ukrainian neighbours could offer sanctuary to Russian soldiers who lay down their arms?

Posted by: Popchartfreak 26th February 2022, 04:52 PM

I'm not seeing anyone saying we should have another World War.

Regarding not taking in refugees, it's a Tory thing not a British thing. I was born on a street with refugee Polish from WW2, who were scarred by what happened to them. Poland is adjacent Ukraine, and we once had a mutual pact with them about being invaded. In the face of aggression one must take action of some sort, preferably non-military, or else you are just saying "help yourself" and words and threats are meaningless once they realise they are empty threats. Putin's had trial runs and got away with murder, literally, on numerous occasions with the West making a bit of noise but carrying on business as usual. I've been frustrated for years about our government in particular being useless with sucking up to Russia and China and some Middle eastern countries.

It never did make sense to leave yourself economically dependant on unreliable politically dodgy powerful nations. This belief that inter-dependant economies would somehow rid the world of fascist dictators is just so laughably naive in its inability to understand that human nature - which never changes - will always trump reason. people don't always act out of reason they act out of greed or fear or delusions of godhood.

Posted by: Suedehead2 26th February 2022, 04:52 PM

But they have projected a Ukrainian flag onto No 10. Isn't that enough?

Posted by: Steve201 26th February 2022, 05:15 PM

Maybe Johnson and Sunak will stand outside No10 clap for Ukraine?

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 05:59 PM

My point isn’t wrong, you just don’t seem to be able to read it. I never said it’s Position had altered or shifted. Just that there could be no more arguments about it

Posted by: J00prstar 26th February 2022, 06:35 PM

That was a great read. Thanks for sharing it. I feel like I have a better idea of it all now.

Posted by: Steve201 26th February 2022, 06:58 PM

Surprised Hungary has agreed to sanctions and removing Russia from the SWIFT financial system. Seems Germany must have a lot more to lose from the latter though as they still haven’t agreed to it!

Posted by: Steve201 26th February 2022, 07:21 PM

https://t.co/aozCGWOno8

This is excellent!

Posted by: Chartfridays 26th February 2022, 07:45 PM

Orban backing sanctions must be a major blow to Putin?

Posted by: Silas 26th February 2022, 11:44 PM

Germany agreed to it a couple of hours before you posted this!

They’ve also agreed to supply weapons and stop blocking the transfer of German produced weapons by other states

Posted by: Skankhunt43 27th February 2022, 12:04 AM

This should have been done, at the very LEAST, weeks ago, if not months or years. Ukraine has been doing well with its resistance and UK-supplied anti-tank and anti-aircraft weaponry, but it could have really stalled Russia with high-levels of Western equipment from the start.

Posted by: Steve201 27th February 2022, 12:12 AM

I didn’t realise that I was reading the EU Twitter feed and it mushy have updated at that point, apologies. But it’s good to see!

Posted by: Silas 27th February 2022, 12:14 AM

Just in case anyone forgot about Belarus… they have a new president (in exile) and are forming a transitional council. This miscalculation is gonna end up with Belarus as a free, democratic state on a path to NATO and EU. Putin losing the ability to keep his puppets in power

Posted by: Silas 27th February 2022, 12:14 AM

It’s no worries, the news is moving hella fast at the moment

Posted by: TheSnake 27th February 2022, 12:29 AM

Mushy?

Posted by: Smint 27th February 2022, 12:52 AM

Kremlin website hacked by Anonymous and Russian State TV channels are playing information about the truth about the conflict from a Ukranian point of view!

Posted by: Run_For_Cover 27th February 2022, 01:50 AM

Seeing this on the news is heartbreaking.

Posted by: Sour Candy 27th February 2022, 07:28 AM

That would be amazing outcome. Haven't read much news from Belarus are people protesting there?

Posted by: Chartfridays 27th February 2022, 10:14 AM

https://twitter.com/antiputler_news/status/1497843820091871235?

Posted by: Silas 27th February 2022, 11:11 AM

Merkels Foreign policy with Russia has just been absolutely savagely destroyed in one single speech by Scholz

Doubling of Defense spending, 100bn in special project funding, mass pivot from Russian gas. Germany is finally trying to make moves to reconcile its past vs it’s position in the world where it is a major economy that should be a leader and global power instead of hiding behind the horrific legacy of its past

Posted by: Chartfridays 27th February 2022, 11:24 AM

Foreign Office will support Brits heading to Ukraine to fight.

Posted by: Smint 27th February 2022, 02:57 PM

Did they which side? I'm sure there's small but noticeable minority from the UK who are instead routing for Putin.

Posted by: Sour Candy 27th February 2022, 03:06 PM

Love to see this!

Posted by: Chartfridays 27th February 2022, 03:30 PM

Obviously the government are only going to support those going to fight for Ukraine... it was in the context of the Ukranian request for foreigners to join the International Territorial Defence of Ukraine Legion. It's important because in most wars it's illegal for Brits to travel and fight for a foreign country, i.e - for both sides in ISIS.

Although I can't imagine at the moment there'll be hoardes of young Brits flying to Ukraine to sign up, if this war escalates that statement of support might become important.

Posted by: Smint 27th February 2022, 03:38 PM

Oh I knew that officially. I was making the wry point (not very clear) that we have enabled Putin with London being a base for Russia's dirty financial laundering and many on the right wing have praised Putin despite being an evil, genocidal homophobic dictator

Posted by: Chartfridays 27th February 2022, 03:44 PM

I get the point, not sure it's the time for it - especially as it seems actions are now being taken to undo any of that support.

Posted by: JamBlade 27th February 2022, 04:12 PM

I really hope we're witnessing the beginning of the end for the evil b*stards Putin and Lukashenko.

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 27th February 2022, 04:42 PM

Looks like he's threatening nukes because he's not getting his way, such small dick energy.

Posted by: Silas 27th February 2022, 04:44 PM

New set of EU sanctions closes airspace to Russians. All their jets registered or not. RT and any other state owned media company of Russia are banned from the EU entirely. And sanctions on Belarus just got ratcheted up a whole lot more.


Not bad for a Sunday

Posted by: Bdelita 27th February 2022, 05:13 PM

Literal quote from one of the protest signs in Berlin that I've seen today.

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 27th February 2022, 05:27 PM

I'm honestly f***ing terrified about everything that is going on, especially with the threatening of nukes. I'm so so scared and I KNOW that is selfish and I do honestly feel for the people of Ukraine who are actually living through it right now - I can only imagine how difficult that is


I can't focus or think straight, I really hope I'm just being dramatic to be honest!

Posted by: J00prstar 27th February 2022, 05:42 PM

Also quite anxious tbh. I'd rather not die in a nuclear strike or get any of the fallout. (watch this be darkly ironic in hindsight if it happens)

Posted by: Sour Candy 27th February 2022, 06:31 PM

These people are so brave, admire them!

Posted by: Silas 27th February 2022, 07:50 PM

They’re risking a long prison sentence and vicious abuse by the police to do that. Brave people. More of it, and more sanctions and the more likely Russia will have some form of regime change as oligarchs get spooked and have Putin removed

Posted by: Chartfridays 27th February 2022, 08:14 PM

Holy f***....

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1498023555975450626?

Posted by: Rooney 27th February 2022, 08:18 PM

If Putin nukes anywhere it will be Ukraine, if he nukes anywhere else he has just instigated World War 3. Except, I am not even sure the two allies who he is banking on (China/India) would support him if he did that. He's clearly a big fan of the Cold War era, but I do think Putin would actually use a nuclear bomb as a last resort, but can't see him using one on a NATO state. Either way, I think he's shocked at how the West has rallied against him.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 27th February 2022, 08:26 PM

I'm completely lost for words at the unhinged and barbaric decision by Putin to invade and attack a sovereign state - I had just assumed that he'd stop at redrawing the Ukraine/Russia border to incorporate the Donetsk (so-called DPR) and Luhansk (so-called LPR) rebel held regions and then maintain pressure to prevent NATO/EU membership.

It turns out that the US intelligence ended up being pretty legit and that the Kremlin were unsurprisingly lying.

Putin looks isolated, he looks somewhat unhinged and rattled, and I think we seriously need to think about de-escalation and a 'way out' of this crisis for him before after being backed into a corner he starts to act irrationally. Unlike Putin who looks weak, Zelenskyy - who incidentally was in a TV show about accidentally being voted in as President just 3 years ago - has been incredibly impressive to watch. His stoic resolve and courage in choosing to stay and fight with his fellow citizens in Kyiv since the Russian invasion and attacks on the country he serves as leader began have been so inspiring. You can't imagine a leader like Johnson doing the same, he'd probably hide in the nearest fridge..

Far from going the way Putin thought it might, it has actually strengthened NATO and the rest of the world (China abstained rather than voting against a UN motion condeming Russia last week) and the strategy is far from going the way he thought it would - the Ukranians aren't going down without a fight. I think he's overplayed his hand, and the gamble is rapidly going south.

Incidentally, although I was quite sceptical about the sanctions - it appears that they have now stepped up and will bite from tomorrow. My worry is for the Russian people, and how they may also end up victims of Putin's war.. with propaganda of the hurt inflicted upon them used to strengthen support for it.

Solidarity with the Ukranian people- let's hope there is progress made at the talks tomorrow.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 27th February 2022, 08:29 PM

India is NOT a Russian ally. It would side with the USA. It has MASSIVE tensions with China, too. Russia is relying on ONE ally - China. Although now we have seen the giant ego of Putin at play, I wonder how he would like to play second-fiddle to a stronger country...

Posted by: Rooney 27th February 2022, 08:53 PM

Not so sure about India, they abstained on the UN vote didn't they? I think they would stay out of it to be fair, but I think Modi has quite close relations with Putin.

Posted by: 💙💛uhsting㈏ 27th February 2022, 08:57 PM

Doubt it will be Ukraine since Russia will be on the receiving end of the fallout and they definitely will not be happy about this and the people living there will not accept this fate. Besides it is just right next to Russia and Belarus so I reckon they just mobilise more forces there if they so desire to annex Ukraine? Consider the environmental impacts and social impacts if they do that and how their own army will react when they themselves are highly affected.

I'm a lot more worried that the nuke threats are targeted towards the countries that have imposed harsh sanctions on Russia and provided weapons to Ukraine. I really hope this will not happen but my best guess would be Dublin in Ireland as they are not in NATO and the environmental impacts would hit the most important countries the hardest following the prevailing winds. Either way, deployment of nukes is surely going to mark the start of WWIII so I think this possibility is still off the table.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 27th February 2022, 09:02 PM

They are trying to not rock the boat. However, they are an American ally, not a Russian ally, and have major grievances with China. Just last year birder skirmishes with China had China force India off a number of strategic positions in the Himalayas.

Posted by: Envoirment 27th February 2022, 09:32 PM

And the US has 1,000+. Starting a nuclear war is a lose-lose situation for everyone globally - including Russia's allies. Especially if a nuclear winter does occur. I don't see Russia pulling the trigger on using a nuke.

The situation is rather scary though. I hope the invasion of Ukraine leads to a more united NATO/EU/Europe and to the ascension of a number of countries to the EU/NATO. As well as causing a shift in the political situation in Belarus whilst ending the reign of Putin.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 27th February 2022, 09:47 PM

I very much doubt nuclear war is about to break out, far more likely - and something we cannot rule out (but still a very small chance) - is a coup against Putin from within the Kremlin. He's badly miscalculated - not only Ukraine's resolve and strength - but how much the rest of the world is united against any unprovoked and unjustified military aggression.

Posted by: 💙💛uhsting㈏ 27th February 2022, 09:50 PM

That I agree as well, and nuking Ukraine would further justify the coup with all the hardships that will follow imo.

Posted by: Bdelita 27th February 2022, 10:00 PM

And now onto the usual 'British MPs saying stupid things' segment of this show.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 27th February 2022, 10:01 PM

Who votes for these Tory turds?!

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 27th February 2022, 10:06 PM

People that lack Common Sense

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 27th February 2022, 10:06 PM

x

Posted by: Doctor Blind 27th February 2022, 10:29 PM

It's mainly Tories though tbf, and they DO love a bit of the 'ole xenophobia. Sadly, so do much of the British public.

I see Priti Fucking Useless of the Go Home Office yesterday putting up the Ukrainian flag and saying that we stand with the Ukrainian people - but we won't waive visas unless you're coming here to pick apples, despite going on and on in summer '21 about virtue signalling and empty gestures.


Putin quite literally is isolated- just look at the size of his table!

Posted by: Bdelita 27th February 2022, 10:37 PM

Hey Siri, play Chandelier by Sia.

Posted by: cider man 27th February 2022, 10:40 PM

Piers Morgan, writing in The Sun, has said the answer to this is the US taking out the Russian forces in Ukraine but Biden is too weak to do it. A strong US President would.

He should launch US air strikes where it hurts and knock all Putin's forces out in and around Ukraine. What will he do then? He won't use nukes as that guarantee Russia's destruction too. America could end this swiftly within hours. On and order the CIA to kill Putin.

I agree. Hit them hard and fast. Where's Dubya when you need him!

Posted by: Rooney 27th February 2022, 10:54 PM

Isn't tje stuff with Putin being so far away from everyone that he is shit scared of catching covid? I'm sure I've read that before.

Oh yeah great one from Piers, let's start WWIII in the process. If Putin goes, it's got to be from within the Kremlin at this stage.

Posted by: cider man 27th February 2022, 10:58 PM

Why would it start WWIII? Putin is a tyrant and a bully so it needs someone to stand up to him. Don't think Biden's the man though.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 27th February 2022, 11:03 PM

^Yeah, he's https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/08/vladimir-putin-massive-table but it is meme-tastic.

🤣

Posted by: Steve201 27th February 2022, 11:39 PM

I’ve heard that too de Putin and Covid but he’s been seen to meet other leaders side by side so think that’s just western media trying to make a c**t of him.

I do worry with all the weapons being handed out Willy nilly in Ukraine what that could cause. I mean there’s already word that the wrong type of person is using the weapons to rob people and attacking ethnic Russian speakers as they are now looked at as the enemy, could be bad for Ukrainian society. I guess though in these tough times it was the only thing they felt they could do.

Posted by: Red Blooded Man 27th February 2022, 11:52 PM

India is not Russia's ally but they do have good relationship with Russia to counter China and Pakistan. Russia is also their main suppliers of military hardware.

Posted by: Davidson 28th February 2022, 12:02 AM

I don’t think we can underestimate Putin’s ability to do anything at this stage. No one really though he was going to go for a full on invasion of Ukraine and he did. Now Russia and it’s people have the world hitting them with all sorts of repercussions and they are becoming more and more isolated. With the number of casualties on the Russian side, this already doesn’t look like it’s going Putin’s way. When a wounded animal is backed into a corner they can do anything. He’s already shown he doesn’t care for the safety of the Russian people otherwise this would never be happening. I honestly think we cannot just think that this threat of nukes is a bluff as I think he’s insane enough to decided that if he’s losing, he will burn the world down on the way out. I so hope that for the safety of everyone that someone from inside the Kremlin saves the day and knocks him off for good before this goes to the point of no return.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 28th February 2022, 12:08 AM

Are you f***ing thick?

Posted by: Rooney 28th February 2022, 12:37 AM

Not sure if you're trolling at this point Chris - if they US directly get involved with their own troops or direct actions and Russia makes an attack back then because there is NATO and lots of different treaties, pacts and agreements, all of a sudden you get the entire world involved in a war. Right now it is not at that stage and there is a large chance Putin will stop once he either has control of the East of Ukraine. There's still a high chance of diplomacy ending the war.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 28th February 2022, 12:49 AM

Dubya didn't do much when Putin attacked Georgia

Posted by: Skankhunt43 28th February 2022, 12:53 AM

Theoretically, I think that the only two countries that realistically could get involved without a world esr would be Finland and Sweden.

Posted by: Microsoft k👠th 28th February 2022, 04:58 AM

Posted by: Sour Candy 28th February 2022, 06:20 AM

I don't think Putin has any interest to attack other countries than Ukraine in the West anyway. It's been about Ukraine since 2004. He cannot even control the war in one country let alone several.

Plus he doesn't have allies apart from Belarus, which is not really an ally, more like "extension".

Posted by: Steve201 28th February 2022, 08:26 AM

It’s called Belorussia for a reason!

Posted by: *Tim 28th February 2022, 09:18 AM

Not Putin uniting the West, the EU and NATO more than they've been before, as well as isolating himself for decades to come. A literal clowb

Posted by: Popchartfreak 28th February 2022, 09:58 AM

Putin is an isolated rat, and they are dangerous - but everyone around him will not want to see Russia obliterated from the face of the planet (along with the rest of us), not to mention the Russian people suffering economic pain for the forseeable future if they don't come to sort of arrangement to get sanctions lifted. Vlad The Inhaler might have prepared for a few years of back-up of resources via China, but they will run out eventually and China will not want to go the same route now it's seen what a unified West is willing to do.

Invading Ukraine via NATO would be insane. One nuclear blast would be enough to trigger a response, and many will still recall Chernobyl. Ukraine and the fallout spread everywhere, Dorset was mildly radioactive for years afterwards, nearer places were worse. The wind doesn't give a shit where you live.

The West must react as they have done, they've put it off for 20 years now, but the reality is if someone threatens you with nuclear weapons then you are basically saying "help yourself" to anything they want if you give in. And as we saw a mere 84 years ago, it only takes one power-mad mass-murdering ruthless nutter to try and take over the world, quickly joined by another 2. Democracy is not forever, and if you want it you have to fight for it sometimes.

Posted by: JamBlade 28th February 2022, 10:29 AM

LOL. Putin is now sending Russia's economy back to the 1990's. Russia was traumatized by what happened to their country in those times which is one reason why Putin has managed to maintain popularity in Russia because of the economy, NOT ANYMORE! The Russian people will know what they need to do.

Posted by: Smint 28th February 2022, 10:50 AM

The thought of Putin using nuclear weapons on the West is too grim to be really thinking of. I would have thought that Hitler would have done the same if he had the opportunity in his final days - so narcissistic and power mad. With Putin, one can only hope that there's a few layers of approval before launching these weapons and not just a single "red button" as he amd Russia would go down with them.

Posted by: JamBlade 28th February 2022, 10:55 AM

Now it looks like Moscow stock exchange will not be opening today. Tick tock Putin, time is running out for you.

Posted by: JamBlade 28th February 2022, 12:01 PM

Putin and Russia WILL lose this war, they've now having to deal with not just the brave, heroic Ukrainian soldiers so far kicking their ass but also most of the developed, democratic countries using economic and cyber warfare on Putin's ass. Thank you Anonymous.

Putin will condemn his country to shame for generations.

Posted by: TheSnake 28th February 2022, 03:56 PM

The Chinese government might be helping Russia though with supplies, or they could be staying out of the conflict, we dont know.

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 28th February 2022, 04:00 PM

So we now have a situation where Liz Truss being absolutely unsuitable for her job has almost caused a nuclear war. Incredible.

Posted by: Dobbo. 28th February 2022, 04:04 PM

I will not name the author of these statements, although it was this one specific person.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 28th February 2022, 04:13 PM

!!!!

Meanwhile, the BbTory rushed to protect the Tories, surprise, surprise:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60558048

"Liz Truss AND OTHERS". No. It was just Liz Truss.

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 28th February 2022, 04:16 PM

I mean, what do you expect appointing such an intellectual void who could probably set fire to a building by using a stapler?

I was fearful weeks ago of that, and turns out I was right to be!

Posted by: slowdown73 28th February 2022, 05:05 PM

This is a very nasty situation and will inevitably escalate if Putin doesn’t get what he wants. I am not sure what the short term answer is but at least both sides are talking.

Posted by: Smint 28th February 2022, 05:08 PM

The bast*rds are now bombing residential areas in the city of Kharkiv which is a complete war crime. Awful stuff.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 28th February 2022, 05:12 PM

It's like he's following Hitler's war book. They aren't making gains, so they try to demoralise the populace.

Posted by: Bdelita 28th February 2022, 05:13 PM

this is some scary shit

i hope someone gagged her

Posted by: Steve201 28th February 2022, 05:43 PM

I would love to have seen the meeting this morning between Ukraine and Russia (I imagine the actual leaders didn’t attend?) like what would you say to each other without it turning into fisticuffs??

Posted by: JamBlade 28th February 2022, 06:28 PM

Liz Truss must have really got under their skin when she met Lavrov at Moscow not long ago. She told them what to expect with the sanctions, the Kremlin must have thought who's this little lady from England telling us what to do.

The Kremlin is not laughing now.

Posted by: Steve201 28th February 2022, 06:59 PM

She’s a clown as well though!

Make no mistake

Posted by: Popchartfreak 28th February 2022, 07:33 PM

Truss is useless. The prime required talent for Foreign Sec is tact, diplomacy and intelligence, only a twat unable to recognise those things would appoint someone to the post who is equally unfamiliar with those gifts.

Posted by: Silas 28th February 2022, 07:59 PM

Truss starting WW3 is exactly how i expected her visit to Moscow to turn out

Posted by: JamBlade 1st March 2022, 08:43 AM

It's now starting to come out what would happen to the Ukrainian people if Russia does successfully invade Ukraine. ABSOLUTELY HORRIFYING! EVIL!

Russian media had articles ready to be published to declare their victory of their invasion (Russia thought it would take them two days), and then what they were going to do to Ukraine afterwards. Putin is Hitler. This was NEVER about NATO, this was Putin wanting to repeat what Hitler did in World War 2, Putin is obsessed with this "Russian empire" and hating the West. Putin was going to do the "final solution" on the Ukrainian people.

All this talk about deNazifying Ukraine, Putin was projecting.

Posted by: Cody Madrigal 1st March 2022, 08:58 AM

idk who this liz truss person is but the audacity of her respective government not detaining her after almost killing off all life on the planet

Posted by: Izzy 💀 1st March 2022, 09:04 AM

er... this seems very concerning, what's the source for this because that sounds incredibly extreme?



Our version of Antony Blinken (US secretary of state for those who don't know). Which is really embarassing, to have such a moron in such a critical position.

Posted by: Sour Candy 1st March 2022, 09:17 AM

Here a local military expert predicts that Ukrainian war could end up like the war in Chechnya - meaning that it'll continue until all the Ukrainian soldiers have died.

However, the situation is very different and UKR has backing from the EU and NATO. Hopefully it's not going to be that long and ugly.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 1st March 2022, 02:34 PM

I heard about the articles appearingand then immediately disappearing, with Russia expecting a 2-day war, a la the Taliban reconquering Afghanistan. I have not heard anything about the more extreme things there, and I have to seriously doubt the credibilityof those claims.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 1st March 2022, 02:35 PM

Putin is obsessed with the West and NATO and re-establishing the old Russian Empire. I doubt he wants to re-trace Hitler's domestic and foreign policies (i.e, mass murder and constant war), save for the expansionist policy.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 1st March 2022, 05:08 PM

Enjoyed watching this Ukrainian journalist taking on Boris Johnson.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 1st March 2022, 05:16 PM

As much as I despise it, it had a point here. The UK cannot impose a No Fly Zone vs Russia, and if it tried to do so, it would be an aggressive act, and provably a declaration of war. Unhinged Putin keeps threatening us with nukes, as he feels weak and vulnerable.

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 1st March 2022, 05:23 PM

Maybe I'm stupid and selfish to a degree, but why does it feel like not many are seeing this as a real threat to Europe, particularly UK. I really think we are in danger from what I've seen and have even been thinking of escape plans lol - but everyone around me tells me I'm being dramatic and it won't happen.

Even on socials, there isn't THAT much really! It's not to say I don't have compassion for Ukraine, of course I do and I think what's happening is despicable but our tiny little island can't take this on and be making threats surely?

I'm sorry if I've said anything distasteful, I haven't men's tro I'm just coming from a place of crippling anxiety lol.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 1st March 2022, 05:26 PM

In a nuclear war, the little island is not in a good position. In a conventional war, not too much for UK to fear from Russia. Sabre air defence, second best navy in world, some of the best jets in world...

Posted by: Doctor Blind 1st March 2022, 05:43 PM

I agree, it would inevitably lead to a direct confrontation and a rapid escalation to a very dangerous point- Dan Hodges (not a serious journalist, he writes for the Daily Fail) argued this morning that to refuse to declare a NFZ was in effect equivalent to appeasement of Hitler in 1938. He does talk absolute shite though.

I feel like the journalist makes good points though, she exposes the hypocrisy of the west.. we make empty promises about protection whilst simultaneously being more than happy to take Russian money (stolen from its people) and build up a dependency on cheap gas, both acting to compromise and make any threats to Russia ultimately hollow, or at least not enough to discourage them from taking this barbaric action. How much solidarity are we really showing when we stop short of making the necessary sacrifices needed in order to make good on that offer of protection? It's just words, thoughts and prayers.

Don't get me wrong, I know who the real enemy is - but corruption & Kompromat run rife through the British establishment.

Posted by: Frenchie 1st March 2022, 05:51 PM

But what’s the point in panicking? It’s not going to achieve very much. There’s not really much the public can do about the whole situation and if somehow we do get into a big war with Russia I don’t know where you are going to escape to.

Posted by: TheSnake 1st March 2022, 06:02 PM

I was hoping there was going to be at least a temporary ceasefire because of the talks going on but nothing yet

Posted by: Rooney 1st March 2022, 06:29 PM

I can totally understand people panicking though, as all it takes if Putin to gamble and it's over if he dares attack NATO. I'd feel at this point though before we tried to push any nuclear option, one of his advisors would pull the plug on him internally, as much as Putin is capable, I don't think the entire Kremlin would be willing to die for Putin. If we get in to a land/urban war with Russia then, the West would win quite comfortably. While I think Putin would clearly go nuclear, I also don't think anyone knows his end goal here and that's what's most worrying.

Also to TheSnake - the peace talks will come to nothing, it's just putting on a show. Putin has no intention of peace until he gets what he's after, and for all the good intelligence we have, no-one has been able to guess what he's after yet.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 1st March 2022, 06:35 PM

He's after the conquest of Ukraine, a buffer state, ans perhaps the de-facto re-absorption of Ukraine into Eussia in all but name, much like he has done with Belarus. Kazakhstan and Georgia would suffer similar fates if he achieves that.

Remember, in both thr US and Russia, a president alone camnot just order a nuclesr strike. He or she must be presented with the option by the MILITARY as a mikitary option for the situation. The nuclear suitcases are just telephones by which the president communicates with the generals that thry have decided on the option, which will have already been presented to them previously by the military. If thr mikitary does not present the option, then it doesn't happen.

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 1st March 2022, 06:37 PM

I'm not trying to say everyone should be anxious or panicking - I agree, that's not healthy (I wish I wasn't but unfortunately I'm just a very anxious person by nature). I was just more concerned that I don't see many people panicking or worrying and it actually being more severe than we think.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 1st March 2022, 06:47 PM

Panicking or stressing still wouldn't achieve anything even if more people did it. Perhaps it is more serious thsn we think, and Putin has absolutely lost it, and his generals are under his thrall. Perhaps not, ans he's shouting out in weakness. An asteroid - not the moon, ifnore that sillt movie lol - coukd crash into us tomorrow. The 1950s - 1991 were all about possible nuclear annihilation of the entire planet at any moment. That's just life - suspension of disbelief, that it could all end in a moment.

Posted by: Suedehead2 1st March 2022, 07:11 PM

Just as a word of reassurance, remember that Johnson blamed the EU for the Russian invasion of Crimea. Oh

Posted by: Skankhunt43 1st March 2022, 07:15 PM

Lol what?? 🤣🤣 God that sack of shit has no business in any position of power.

Posted by: blacksquare 1st March 2022, 07:23 PM

I hate that I actually agree with Boris Johnson on something. Some of the takes I have seen today could quite literally result in nuclear destruction.

Posted by: Silas 1st March 2022, 07:36 PM

Im broadly in favour of a no-fly zone but it would be the start of WW3 and anyone in favour of an NFZ who is in denial about that fact or says it won’t happen is not living in reality and should be sent to sit in a corner with a cone hat on. It involves provocations with, and the shooting down of, Russian aircraft, Drones and missiles. That would be received as a declaration of war by Russia.


Now. Russia bombed the Slovenian embassy today. An attack on an embassy is usually seen as an attack on that country. An embassy is considered the sovereign territory of a country. Slovenia is a nato state. NATO swore to protect ever inch of territory. So the question is, have we already crossed that line where article 5 is triggered.


Also today the EU Parliament voted by a meteoric landslide to designate the Ukraine as an official candidate for EU Membership.

Posted by: Rooney 1st March 2022, 08:43 PM

That's what we think he wants, but it might not. He could stop when he has control of Kiyv or he could go for the whole of Ukraine. Everyone seemed surprised at his launch of attack to Ukraine for example.



Do we know is Russia purposely bombed the embassay though? I can't imagine Putin wants a war with NATO purposely. Either way, I could not see us declaring war over the bombing of an embassy in Ukraine if they had been evacuated, not matter how bad that action is. Looks like China are truly beginning to distance themselves from the attack too, probably fear the economic repecussions.

Posted by: Silas 1st March 2022, 08:58 PM

It’s claimed to be collateral damage but that was a strike on civilian infrastructure and a war crime before you consider the location of the Slovenian embassy. The Ukrainians are saying they have evidence that Russians have been in country Intel gathering and preparing for over a year. They will have known exactly what was on this square and attacked knowing it would damage a nato embassy. It was a wilful act

Posted by: Suedehead2 1st March 2022, 10:27 PM

Yes, he said it in the referendum campaign.

Posted by: Steve201 2nd March 2022, 01:54 AM

It also makes you wonder about the specific rules of war and generalisations we all have about the situation. I mean will Russia start a war with NATO if a NFZ is introduced - yes most likely. But will Putin also look at NATO and EU nations as being aggressive because they are supplying weapons to Ukraine? Surely it’s similar. Or as you say embassy’s being destroyed.

One other thing I was worried about is if Russian misiles hit one of the four nuclear plants in Ukraine (seperate from the famous Chernobyl plant) that would be awful.

Also, on a seperate note, I asked this earlier in the thread but didn’t get an answer. But what exactly is the difference between Russia and Ukraine, why was Ukraine/Belarus etc formed post 1991, I’m pretty sure it wasnt a seperate nation state before 1917!?

Posted by: Izzy 💀 2nd March 2022, 04:38 AM

I think the risk of nuclear war does have to take into account that Russia undoubtedly has a few people who would have to sign off on a nuclear launch - it won't just be Putin the madman, and every one of those people is very aware that firing a nuke means Russia ceases to exist.

Doesn't mean it won't happen. Just that more than one powerful person has to sign themselves off to destroying their own country.

Missiles hitting Ukraine's nuclear plants is perhaps more of a worry, I'm not sure of their locations.

Ukrainian history is a long one and much like other peoples who have been ruled more often than they've been the ruler (c.f. Irish, Czechs, Serbs, Croats), quite complicated but a short summary with probable inaccuracies because chronicling an ethnic group's history is a touchy business at times:

Going back to medieval times there's always been a long swathe of peoples stretching from the Carpathian mountains on the border with Romania to the Volga River in the East and the Finnish woods to the north, variously called the Rus' or the Ruthenians - Slavic peoples who spoke a variety of Russian languages. Kyiv WAS the old Russian capital around 1000-1100 but Russia wasn't united, what we now know as 'Kievan Rus' was just the most powerful of the principalities at that time. The Rus and the Ruthenians diverged later on and those thought more of as Ruthenians came under the dominance of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and the Rus under the duchies of Novgorod, Muscovy and others; later, united by Ivan IV, into the first Russian Empire. Modern Belarus and Ukraine went back and forth between these two empires - and also the Austrians and the Ottoman empire for a little bit (c.f. the Zaporizhian hordes, a Cossack horde based in modern Ukraine who are famous for sending a rather rude letter to the Ottoman sultan). Ukrainian emerged as a descriptor to describe the Ruthenians who lived in these contested areas around Kyiv in the 18th century. Belarus are often thought of as 'White Ruthenians' or 'White Rus' (that's literally the name of the country) - it used to describe all of Russia but now just means Belarus.

For Ukraine, after Poland-Lithuania fell around 1800, this group of people who didn't share a common history of being united with Russia found themselves divided between empires yet again, and started a Ukrainian national revival with for those with cultural ties to the region around Kyiv. The Russian Empire did own most of this land by 1917, and the new USSR (was basically forced to divide its country into ethnic groups, at least those on its borders into separate SSRs) used the now century-old tradition of Ukrainian identity asserting itself beneath Russian national boundaries to declare Ukraine a separate SSR. And all of the SSRs that still existed when the USSR fell became their own nation states because they voluntarily left the USSR as their own nation states.

I mean, yes, it wasn't a separate nation state before 1917 but also so were most of Europe's ethnic groups who now have self-determination. Slovakia, Slovenia, North Macedonia, Belgium, these didn't exist in any form until at least the 18th century or later - and countries like Croatia, Serbia and Norway had to draw upon long-buried histories of being briefly independent before they were released.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 2nd March 2022, 04:42 AM

Put it this way - if you think all nation states should be drawn around ethnolinguistic lines (I do not, that would be terrible), then there might be a teensy justification for Russia to be united with Belarus. But they're still distinct, if similar ethnic groups. Much less of one to be united with Ukraine - it's saying that Norway should invade Sweden and Croatia should invade Serbia on the same justification.

Posted by: Steve201 2nd March 2022, 07:42 AM

Thanks for the overview, it is very interesting. So it’s like the Tsar had built up the Russian empire west and that’s why Ukraine and Belarus didn’t exist in nation state form before 1991, I always thought it was strange and it was a way of the west of creating a buffer zone between Russia and Poland!

Posted by: Izzy 💀 2nd March 2022, 07:56 AM

Both were under the control of larger and more powerful empires despite different languages, yeah. I mean, for those empires the Ukrainian plains were a buffer zone in border regions to be given to Cossack commanders and warlords rather than ruled as core parts. But Ukrainian national identity was strong enough by 1917 to force the revolutionaries in Moscow to recognise the Ukrainian leaders as governing a separate state within their union.

Not the west's idea, for sure.

Posted by: JamBlade 2nd March 2022, 01:56 PM

I said before that the Russian economy would be taken back to the 1990's, I was way off. Try more the "stone age". Russia is going to be made more isolated than even the Soviet Union ever was. If I was Russian, I would get the hell out of Russia NOW!

Posted by: JamBlade 2nd March 2022, 02:04 PM

Also this means that even if Russia does successfully invade Ukraine completely, Russia will never be able to hold it. They will have barely any money or supplies or weapons. And most importantly the Ukrainian people don't want the Russian occupants in their country, they want them OUT. Meanwhile Ukraine will be trained up by NATO, 22 thousand Ukrainian soldiers have already been trained by the British under NATO, Ukraine will win either the short game or the long game.

Russia has lost already, they just don't know it yet.

Posted by: Bdelita 2nd March 2022, 02:16 PM

Big brands are closing business with Russia, some banks are being turned off SWIFT, any fake news about this war (they REALLY don't like to call it this, that is merely a 'military operation') online can get you a few years in jail, Wikipedia (!) is on the verge of getting blocked purely due to the Ukraine war article, some of the government officials coming out as shocked at how this has turned out (and APPARENTLY they can't say no to this otherwise they will be facing jail).

Putin is literally holding half of the country hostage and the other half is too brainwashed and/or ignorant to see the truth.

Posted by: callmeDim 2nd March 2022, 07:39 PM

Pav, I thought you're slightly wrong in terms of the amount of brainwashed people, keeping faith in our people.
How right i was... modulo.
They are more than a half.
While I was talking to mates, colleagues, relatives, listening closely to everyone and letting them express properly what they really think, this Russian propaganda version was the most common point of view.
I even started to think myself, what was the real reason for all that bloody masquerade? I mean, I don't wanna dig deeper than I'm allowed to (as if I AM allowed to do it lol) but, if we could put imperialistic thoughts and health issues aside for a moment, maybe there was something else?
---
and yeah, the screws are turned tighter and tighter day by day, 'fake news' authors are promised to be jailed for 15 years (fake is what is not published by the officials, there we go), euro banknotes are not allowed for import, foreign currency over $10000 is now prohibited to export, two opposition mass media are blocked etc.
what else?

Posted by: Steve201 2nd March 2022, 10:11 PM

Think this was always going to be the case unless the Russian speaking east had accepted them but even they are opposed to their actions.

Posted by: Umi 3rd March 2022, 02:31 AM

I've been unable to stop thinking about this invasion since well before it actually came to pass, and naturally 95% of my thoughts have been about the suffering of Ukraine, but I'm despairing for Russia tonight. I would love for the Russian posters on here to correct me, but it feels like the country is rushing past the point of no return right now. I just can't help but find it chilling that despite such a serious deterioration in Russia's position and its domestic quality of life, there is still no wind of change. This is absolutely not a critique of the Russian people, but it worries me that the country is mid-transformation into a much larger North Korea (not just in terms of the economic and cultural isolation, but also the last gasps of independent media and curtailed freedom of movement for Russians), with the added bonus of inflicting its regime on neighbouring countries and threatening nuclear war (and therefore the destruction of the Russian people), and ... the response is extremely passive. I just can't fathom a situation in which a formidable domestic response to the Russian government can ever again be mustered up if this situation prompts only some small scale demonstrations.

Again, I want to stress that this is not a "jeez, why aren't you guys rebelling?" post. My full sympathy is with the Russian people and I am extremely privileged to be able to comment on this from afar. It's just one of the most hopeless situations I've ever seen, to see a regime do this much harm to its people and have those people be just this helpless in the face of it. If Ukraine ever gets out of this war, they have a path (if vague and difficult) towards a stable democracy and a brighter future. Russia feels like it's going quietly into the night and I don't want this international pariah imprisoning its citizens to be the status quo for the coming decades.

I don't know. If the above is totally ignorant and/or offensive, please do correct me. I'm just unable to comprehend the damage that one man is doing to so many nations at the moment. My thoughts are with all Ukrainian, Russian, and Belarusian posters. I'm proud of the international response to this, but I wish we could do so much more.

Posted by: Rooney 3rd March 2022, 09:36 AM

I think if there is one absolutely tiny positive from this invasion is that it feels like the end for Putin and the path is potentially open for a more progressive Russia. I'm no Russia expert, but it does seem like after they disbanded the Soviet Union, Russia was moving towards a different path under that current leader, but gradually under Putin they have become more and more isolated against the West and imo has badly miscalculated the anger. The fact they are calling Putin war criminal - I just don't see any way back for him now. Of course a future leader could be even worse, but who knows. The problem is though, even if Putin is now a war criminal the UN or NATO are hardly going to waltz in to Russia and arrest him. Can only hope one of his allies turns on him.

Posted by: cider man 3rd March 2022, 05:55 PM

Did anyone see the young mother and two young daughters, around 6, 7, arrested and thrown in a call for daring to leave a message and flowers outside the Ukrainian embassy in Moscow? Awful.

Posted by: Smint 3rd March 2022, 07:59 PM

Well Putin is rumoured to be imposing martial law on Russia which will mean several conscientious objector Russians fleeing (although who would take them with Ukranian refugees as well). Plus there is thought he might carry out public executions of captured Ukranians. Assuming all comes to pass, I don't think any other leader could be any worse than this 21st century Hitler.

Posted by: Mack. 3rd March 2022, 08:08 PM

Extraordinary:

Posted by: Skankhunt43 3rd March 2022, 08:16 PM

Putin has told Macron he wants all of Ukraine, as if there was any doubt about that! He wants it to be a buffer state, no ifs oe buts, which means this will be a protracted war

Posted by: TheSnake 3rd March 2022, 08:27 PM

Well if most of the ethnic Ukrainians are migrating away to NATO countries to the west, he can repopulate Ukraine with ethnic Russians who would theoretically be more loyal to him which I would guess would be what he wants to do.

Posted by: Rooney 3rd March 2022, 08:55 PM

It seems as if the tide is turning in Russia though with the under 40s, I can't see that going down too well. There's no way Putin can hold Ukraine. And personally I think Macron is an idiot for engaging directly with Putin, he's giving him the attention he craves.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 3rd March 2022, 09:06 PM

Surely that is war propaganda??? I can't see why anyone, no matter how unhinged they were, would do that. We have got to have learned from history at this point.

Posted by: Steve201 3rd March 2022, 11:18 PM

There’s a French election soon….

Posted by: Steve201 4th March 2022, 01:22 AM

Of course there’s now a fire at a nuclear power plant in Ukraine meaning we have potentially another Chernobyl on our hands.

Posted by: TheSnake 4th March 2022, 02:03 AM

How reckless and stupid can the Russian army get?

It might however be one possible and awful tactic the Russian army may use to get Ukraine to surrender : threaten the safety of one of the nuclear power plants if Ukraine doesnt surrender?

Posted by: Chartfridays 4th March 2022, 05:17 AM

Avoided thankfully

Posted by: Chartfridays 4th March 2022, 05:18 AM

It's not reckless or stupid when you remember why they're doing it. It's calculates and evil. Maximum damage

Posted by: Silas 4th March 2022, 06:52 AM

Given the wind is blowing east into Russia, we can’t discount stupid entirely

Posted by: Bdelita 4th March 2022, 09:03 AM

That's the thing. You don't have to learn from history if you rewrite it completely and that's what he's been after for years already, it just became pretty obvious now.

The official propaganda materials about this """military operation""" were already sent out to schools so it must be true, right?

Posted by: Popchartfreak 4th March 2022, 10:18 AM

Exactly. People do learn from history - they learn all the techniques of propaganda and control. trump tried his utmost (and still is) in that regard, his own ex-wife said decades ago which book he kept on his bedside table. The same one Putin is playing from. Democracy is dead in Russia, he's now a power-mad dictator determined to deny freedom and open-ness and dissent and control the narrative.

What the West forgot was that he was always aiming for that, but they went along with letting him build his power and Empire up. His entire bunch of cronies are former KGB mates and childhood friends. That is the classic sign of someone who doesn't want anyone with an alternative viewpoint, or someone that might poison/shoot/knife him in the back. That's why he has his own private army of guards. They all have as much to lose as Putin now because they are all involved directly, and Putin won't be publicly visiting his adoring crowds any time in the future. Everyone is now a danger to him, he is bound to believe - or he wouldnt be shutting down information and protests.

Posted by: Smint 4th March 2022, 11:52 AM

This conflict is extremely worrying and horrific that with nuclear threat he can have so much power. Think it's clear that he's extremely unlikely to stop or any internal uprising will stop him. It's a bit of a waiting game to see how bad things are before we (NATO) try to escalate actions. Damned if you do (nuclear threat) and damned if you don't (appeasement).

Posted by: Bdelita 4th March 2022, 12:04 PM

The more I think about it the more Putin seems like a petulant scared (key word here for me) individual with unresolved issues from childhood and insecurities about his a bit less than average height that got buried so deep he spiraled into being a literal psychopath. And that's more of a clinical term, not judgement. Quite fascinating if you take it out of context of him literally murdering people using money he stole.

Posted by: Umi 4th March 2022, 01:01 PM

It feels increasingly likely that we'll reach the peak of this situation very soon. I was up until 5:30 watching the nuclear situation last night, and it feels hard to view it as anything other than a purposeful terror tactic for Europe.

Posted by: Steve201 4th March 2022, 03:38 PM

I don’t get why they would do that as the fallout of Chernobyl is still fresh in the minds of Russian leaders and it would affect them too?

Posted by: Popchartfreak 4th March 2022, 05:27 PM

cos it can't explode like an atom bomb, it supports 20% of Ukraine's power, and Putin doesn't care if the worst happens and an explosion releases radioactive material across Ukraine, Russia and various neighbours as most people will take years to start dying, and those in the area are only Ukranians and Russian soldiers, so they don't matter. He's been quite happy to encourage people to die slowly of radioactive poisoning in the past. Cold-blooded Murderers don't have consciences and he's not likely to suddenly have an epiphany I'm afraid.....

Posted by: Skankhunt43 4th March 2022, 07:31 PM

Putin saying he supports talks, but ONLY if Ukraine "complies with his demands". Um, so they aren't talks, just one ciuntry using force to bully another.

I'm hearing rumours that Putón is hidden away in a bunker. Is that true??

Posted by: callmeDim 4th March 2022, 08:54 PM

I'm sorry to interrupt but you're asking people on Buzzjack whether the president of another country is hiding in the bunker, don't you?

Posted by: Skankhunt43 4th March 2022, 09:24 PM

Wat?

Posted by: Doctor Blind 4th March 2022, 10:05 PM

Some of the things in Aleksandr Dugin's book (Foundations of Geopolitics) which relate to Europe - looks a bit like Putin's "playbook"

Incidentally I've seen lots of unverified photos of Russian tanks stuck in the early spring mud. If true, this whole "operation" looks like a complete shambles to me.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 5th March 2022, 09:20 AM

Hmmm, well all of those aims are pretty much tits up following Ukraine. Except for the isolating of the UK (economically) from Europe, which went very well with Russian support.

A wet dream of carving up Europe was never going to happen while people are still alive who remember lying dangerous murderous tyrants coming from the East.

Posted by: Chartfridays 5th March 2022, 10:05 AM

Obviously were in the midst of a war, so claims need to be taken with a pinch of salt but Zelensky claiming 10,000 Russian soldiers have died.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 5th March 2022, 10:19 AM

Putin and his ilk probably did not conceive of a pretty strong pan-European feeling that now permeates the continent. It is just feelings and come into contact with Russian forces, it may melt away, but for now, it's holding strong and it appears the war of words is Ukraine's.

The likely death figures are somewhere between the Ukrainian figures and the Russian figures, the Russians were claiming 500 yesterday but it seems to be a bit more than that.

Posted by: Silas 5th March 2022, 11:03 AM

I read that the Ukrainian figures are misleading but in the right ball park. This was saying that It includes injured and captured. So its basically right to say it’s 10k they’ve removed from the battlefield, not necessarily in body bags.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 5th March 2022, 12:26 PM

Ukraine's reaction to Russian troops invading and history generally suggests that people are generally not keen on giving up their way of life to a regime that denies the truth and freedoms and imposes its will on people. So, melting away of support is not likely. Some Serbian protestors seem to be on the side of Russia - to which I'd suggest they go and live in Russia if they want to give up their freedom and right to protest. Does Putin care about his citizens? Not at all. No more than he cares about anyone else. He only cares about power, as in the end all dictators show that's all they care about.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 5th March 2022, 01:45 PM

I appreciate the heroism of the Ukrainians we have seen, but just as many will want war to leave their lives, no matter who rules them in the end. The current tack for Europe will eventually trend into a condemned but de facto Russian occupation of Ukraine, without much real resistance shown. The morale war is good at the start only, for those who aren't affected, and for those who are, long months of suffering and danger. It is unfortunate that any further action that would helpfully defend Ukraine risks too much.

Posted by: Rooney 5th March 2022, 05:11 PM

Putin now claiming the sanctions imposed by the West are almost a declaration of war. It's almost like he is baiting NATO for a fight (which he would lose, horribly).

Posted by: Chartfridays 5th March 2022, 05:25 PM

That's squarely aimed at his internal audience. The invasion of Ukraine is failing, the economic sanctions are hitting his people, and the perfect scapegoat is the west for that rather than him - it's classic deflection. The reality is the economic impact of sanctions, whilst hopefully bad for Russia is nowhere near as bad as full on war would be.

Posted by: Sour Candy 5th March 2022, 06:07 PM

So Putin thinks the sanctions AND war with NATO would be better

Posted by: TheSnake 5th March 2022, 06:13 PM

Putin will stop once Ukraine surrenders - I think he may even resign as President once it happens. It wouldnt surprise me if he has made a deal with some of the other powerful figures in Russian government that he will give the job of President to someone else once he takes Ukraine. Maybe thats why they are still backing him and there hasnt been a coup yet?

Posted by: Rooney 5th March 2022, 06:33 PM

All his inner circle are mainly people he's known from his childhood. It would take someone very brave to start a coup against him. No way he ever gives up power ever, he will just create some brand new Government role for himself and I don't see a way Ukraine surrender either. The majority of the country isn't arsed by Russia occupation at all, so can never see him having complete control over Ukraine.

Posted by: Chartfridays 5th March 2022, 07:05 PM

Russia announced it will sanction UK interests in Russia. Looks like we're headed for economic warfare.

Posted by: slowdown73 6th March 2022, 02:30 AM

It doesn’t surprise me that Putin has singled out the U.K. over sanctions against his country. Relationships between the two countries has been very poor since the Salisbury attack and Liz Truss had about as much warmth as an iceberg at a meeting with Russia last week. I think Putin is playing a dangerous game and looking for someone to blame. The invasion hasn’t gone according to plan and I bet they weren’t expecting the reaction they got from the west. Putin is dangerous, volatile and without effective mediation, this could end really badly.

Posted by: Smint 6th March 2022, 02:38 AM

Not I follow football at all but in a show of toxic masculinity/group think, Chelsea fans changed Roman Abranovich's name during a - wait for it - silence to remember Ukranian's victims at their match today. Grim

Posted by: Smint 6th March 2022, 02:39 AM

As loathe as I am to praise anything that the Tories are doing and you can certainly argue that they are not sorting the laundering of dirty money fast enough or taking in Ukranians refugees, Johnson has at least made it very clear that he is very pro Ukraine/amti Russia. The Repuglicans in the USA are very on the fence unbelievably!

Posted by: Steve201 6th March 2022, 07:36 AM

I would imagine Putin will have thought it may end up like Chechnya 20 years ago and will have expected much of this reaction from the west.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 6th March 2022, 09:58 AM

I was thinking more about the reaction of people not in Ukraine. Putin intends to demoralise Ukraine until it gives in, there's no doubt about that. The impact beyond Ukraine will be significant and bring about the exact thing Putin most-feared. Unity against Russia. Russia can't survive long-term with the entire world cutting them off and unless Putin has invented immortality at some stage there will be an internal power-struggle now that the pretence of democracy is ended. Meanwhile in Russia people might blame the West for their worsening lives - but they may well blame Putin who will have to double-down on freedoms. Revolutions of the people are not unusual if they see no way out of the misery. Down the line, maybe, but it's only 30 years since it last happened and that came about almost overnight like a deck of cards. And if Putin started killing his own people those cronies around him might start having second thoughts about how they came to this situation.

Lots of ifs and maybes, but nobody knows how things play out while they are happening, but consequences of some kind are always inevitable.

Posted by: Bdelita 6th March 2022, 03:23 PM

I was just thinking of how Repuglicans [sic] and Russia's Putinators are extremely similar so is this just silent approval?! Which is super weird to think about as Russia's official POV is that all of the US is an enemy. In a nutshell they all want the same thing - go back to the past and normalise racism, homophobia and fascism again. It's just in the US there's strong liberal opposition that doesn't let this go too far and people there *actually* know what freedom feels like. Russia in this sense is extremely sad because we are taught from a very early age that we are basically nothing but a child-birthing machine created for some mysterious greater good and anything outside of conservative (and in most cases backed by religion) 'norms' cannot even be talked about. I kinda blame a combination of both capitalism and Russia's severe self hatred.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 6th March 2022, 06:36 PM

Johnson sways with whatever is fashionable on the day, he has no real beliefs and morals. Words, as I keep saying, are meaningless platitudes unless backed up with action. In this case, the number of oligarchs actually blanked is about 4 with feeble excuses about getting sued. Sued by whom? The EU and the USA have already done it. We left the EU so we could be free to make our own laws. The Tories choose not to pass a law that makes illegal money-laundering from dodgy uncertain sources. Why is that? Cos they fear retribution. From people who have dirt on them, just like the Republicans are supported by dodgy cash donations. And cos they are also busy helping good friends stash dodgy cash. I see the broadside against Liz Truss part annoyance at her being a gobby woman telling the former KGB's what to do, and part a warning that if you carry out the threats expect things to be made public. So in the meantime they have ample time to move funds elsewhere. I mean, the government can change the law so it's not illegal to seize unsourced cash. The hated EU managed it......

Posted by: Smint 7th March 2022, 12:20 PM

Oh not praising the Tory government - suppose the horrifying thing is that the Republicans are either praising Putin or completley downplaying it saying that Trudeau or "wokeness" is worse. At least they are not THAT bad. In the UK, There is a small element on the far right here who are doing the same - notably Neil Oliver on KGB news going on about "don't trust Putin but don't trust Nato either". People liek Laurence Fox, James Delingpole (who writes for Spectator) too taking this approach.

The mainstream right are using this as an excuse to destroy Green Agenda, saying the UK must frack and get its own fuel.Plus Farage (Putin's groupie until now) wants a referendum on Net Zero. But it's like the environmental issues aren't just going to disappear overnight. Possibly will post more about this in the environment thread though.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 7th March 2022, 12:35 PM

Having more energy investment into renewables is just as effective at leaving Russian influence - they don't have a leg to stand on.

Posted by: Suedehead2 7th March 2022, 02:25 PM

Rachel Johnson, famous simply because she is de Pfeffel's sister, used her radio show to argue against accepting Ukrainian refugees because too many of the women would become widows (as a result of their husband being killed by Russians) and would, therefore, be a burden on the state. Clearly being a clueless, heartless monster runs in the family.

Posted by: Smint 7th March 2022, 02:36 PM

What does their gender have to do with being a "burden on the state" - plus previously people have complained vast majority of refugees have been male previously. Mind you Rachel Johnson did previosly write an article in defence of Ghislaine Maxwell...

Posted by: J00prstar 7th March 2022, 02:54 PM

Disgusting. A burden on the state? What do you do again - live off taxpayers money while doing f*** all, isn't it?

Posted by: Brett-Butler 7th March 2022, 05:15 PM

For those wondering how the Irish are reacting to the invasion on Ukraine:

On Friday, a priest was caught https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/proud-priest-who-threw-paint-on-russian-embassy-gates-says-he-won-t-pay-fine-1.4819624 in Dublin (he's now being summoned to court).

Then today, a truck that is used for delivering candles and Holy Communion to churches across the island was https://www.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/man-arrested-as-communion-supplies-van-crashes-into-dublin-russian-embassy-gates-41419821.html, destroying part of the wall in the process.

Posted by: Suedehead2 8th March 2022, 12:11 PM

The government has announced with pride that the UK is the first country in the world to introduce a visa scheme for Ukrainian refugees. Funnily enough, they have overlooked the fact that the rest of Europe decided not to introduce additional red tape for people desperately fleeing a war zone.

Posted by: Silas 8th March 2022, 01:24 PM

Ukrainians get three years visa free access with work rights and access to public funds automatically across the entire EU


The UK has allowed them to apply for fruit picking visas

Posted by: Skankhunt43 8th March 2022, 06:45 PM

People talked about the USA and UK being weaker than what they thought, in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars - and that was across the world, and with them achieving air supremacy in a matter of hours. Tgis invasion has really showed up the fact that Russian conventional military might is really not what we thought. (Although I have always maintained that the UK is stronger conventionally, but with a far smaller active force.)

2 million refugees now, and the UK gives out 50 fruit-picking visas :/

Posted by: Bdelita 9th March 2022, 12:47 AM

Not much can be expected from a force pretty much only motivated by either greed and self preservation. The part that’s feeling guilt is already putting down the arms.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 9th March 2022, 05:52 PM

Back in the good ol days of WW2 we didn't as a nation or the Tories as a party moan about Polish refugees coming here. We declared war on Germany and took 'em in. It's why the Polish wanted to come here before the far right hijacked moaning about immigrants as the cause of all our woes for the Brexit Russian-supported propaganda referendum. It's why they can't back down now on immigrants. They made their bed and are forced to lie in it while largely exagerrating about practically supporting Ukraine except by waving the flag a lot (as usual).

Plus side, all those Tory "let's close down the biased hated BBC" from a few weeks ago suddenly praising the organisation now journalists are risking their lives to get the non-biased news from Ukraine and Russia out and the realisation that actually much of the world respects the job they do and turn to them for a reasoned, largely-factual view. As I said earlier for Johnson - and it applies to the Tories in control generally - they have no principles, they flip-flop in the wind trying to appear as if they care about something by and large. But they don't care enough to do the right thing even if it's in their own self-interest.

Posted by: Steve201 9th March 2022, 06:15 PM

Yeh they are political cameleons as I’ve always said that’s unfort why they are the most successful political party in Britain. The tensions between the changes are being seen already with the libertarian and red wall MPs opposed to each other on principle. It can’t and won’t last.

I think it will come back to bite them though with the pandemic, brexit and now the European war - they haven’t read the room right regarding partygate and now bringing in Ukrainian refugees. Hope people see their contrarian views and punish them at the election. That’s how Labour did so well in 1945 people realised they created the pre war world and the war was a result of that!

Posted by: Silas 9th March 2022, 06:37 PM

10000 people a day are arriving in Berlin. More people arrive PER TRAIN from the far side of Poland than the UK has issued visas too to date. The f***ing Ukrainian ambassador couldn’t even get one for his wife ffs.

Only the UK is bragging about their response. The EU just threw open the doors, said „ah f*** it we will sort the paperwork later“, and offered a place to anyone fleeing Ukraine. I hope that we turn around and do the same to anyone fleeing Russia. Implement a brain drain. Good people shouldn’t be left to rot, we should be able to get them and their families out




Now the savages masquerading as a saviour have bombed a maternity hospital. It’s becoming tougher to justify an anti-no fly zone stance when they continue to enact war crimes and a borderline genocide against Ukrainians.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 9th March 2022, 06:56 PM

Reports coming out this evening of a maternity ward and children's hospital bombed in Mariupol, which has been under siege by Russia for almost 2 weeks now. Utterly contemptible, I just don't have any words.

I see that the UK government keeps trotting out this line about 'security risks' as a barrier to refugee access when Boris Johnson himself dismissed warnings from the UK intelligence services in 2020 not to give a peerage to Evgeny Lebedev, the son of a Russian oligarch and former KGB agent. Hypocrisy on steroids.

Posted by: Silas 9th March 2022, 08:00 PM

As of Priti Patels bullying and demoralising her staff isn’t a security risk

Posted by: Doctor Blind 9th March 2022, 08:06 PM

The Spectator (usually a pro- Conservative magazine) have quite a brutal front cover.

Posted by: Silas 9th March 2022, 08:12 PM

In amongst the blatant Russian propaganda pieces („has the west miscalculated“??? Really? Everyone sane is asking about Putin miscalculating.) that is quite devastating but also entirely true.

The UK gov has massively misread the temperature of the uk population. Probably because the population is thinking among the lines of the populace of Poland etc. White people fleeing war =/= security risks. They look just like us etc etc

Posted by: Chartfridays 10th March 2022, 04:52 AM

It's becoming increasingly different for Western countries to justify not sending more military help to Ukraine, and yes boots on the ground after last night.

The refugee thing is ridiculous, throw open the doors for crying out loud.

Posted by: J00prstar 10th March 2022, 05:00 AM

Its not like those of us with minds in our heads didn't warn the UK population of the nature of Boris Johnson's government.

At which point do people wake up and realise "hmm, their actions keep suggesting they are absolutely heartless, greedy, selfish monsters...perhaps they actually are and it isn't all political 4d chess?"

Posted by: Smint 10th March 2022, 01:56 PM

I'm guessing it's that Putin might nuke the world to smithereens. But in some ways I think it might be worth calling his bluff. All extinct in 20 years anyhow as noone gives a monkey's about the environment.

Posted by: Smint 10th March 2022, 02:06 PM

The Spectator is normally racist and quite evil (just see some of their commentators) so they are a fine one to talk.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 10th March 2022, 05:50 PM

It's so depressing when you can see a car crash coming and are powerless to stop it. I'm talking about the electorate voting for Johnson, and Putin's insane attempts to be remembered in the history books one way or the other, as opposed to a minor vile hitman dictator.

Posted by: Smint 13th March 2022, 12:44 AM

Wondered whether to post about this in the Tory thread, especially as its rightly discussing the despicable inhumane policy re: asylum of Ukranian refugees but there is this new scheme introduced by Michael Gove (who is from all I hear one of the better Tories in the cabinet, although that says loads about the rest). Looks like Patel is being overruled thankfully. And thought post here to focus on the needs of the Ukranians who are fleeing the conflict.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/gove-bids-to-end-ukrainian-refugee-chaos-with-350-cash-for-rooms-offer

You can get a £350 grant a month to house Ukranian refugees which seems sensible subject to suitable vetting. I would definitely consider if I had the rooming and if I did in the future. The scheme has come under partial criticism as they say that a the people that house the refugees will not have the appropriate training to help the refugees with the trauma they will inevitably feel but I consider the most important thing is to get them housed and safe and I'm sure that if this scheme does work well, there will be a lot of support networks both for the refugees and the hosts to deal with these issues as they come along.

Now let's open our borders and let as many as we can realistically in. It's human nature really.

Posted by: Envoirment 13th March 2022, 01:14 AM

To me the government scheme is just a massive cop out by putting the responsibility on ordinary people when they should have a properly functioning home office as well as the facilities to not only house/look after refugees/asylum seekers (not just Ukranians but also Afghans/Syrians and others) but also have professionals giving them the help they need. The massive cuts via austerity during the 2010s has really hurt the UK hard on so many fronts.

I'm not sure how well this scheme is going to work, especially not knowing the criteria for matching people. It could be another "show" policy whereby the amount of people that manage to use the scheme is very little due to tough/restrictive criteria. A big issue will be the language barrier for many.

Posted by: Smint 13th March 2022, 01:32 AM

True, there is talk about a lot of people wanting to volunteer their homes which is admirable and it could be a good quick solution but I agree that the numbers that are housed and the speed of it will be the main measure of success. It goes without saying, this scheme should be in tandem with lots more government help.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 13th March 2022, 12:33 PM

Gary Lineker has already taken in refugees in his own house, in advance of the usual far right "if you want 'em here, you take 'em into your house then" anti-immigrant bullshit. And no it's not for the just-announced £350 a month, or £75 quid a week. Presumably some will lose the single-person tax rebate, and have it regarded as income to be taxed. Just being cynical, I have no evidence for those...

Posted by: cider man 13th March 2022, 07:24 PM

So how many will you take in then? Just curious. Is that £350 each person as no way would it be enough for a family as they'll eat about that a month in food.

Posted by: cider man 13th March 2022, 07:29 PM

DELETED. Was a bit harsh last night maybe. Poor people.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 13th March 2022, 09:48 PM

Interesting thread here from Kamil Galeev discussing game theory and how to effectively defeat Putin - they've written and published a number of really interesting threads over the last few weeks that have really helped me to develop a deeper understanding of the conflict. If you've a spare 15 minutes or so, it's well worth a deep dive.

If you want the tl;dr- counterintuitively it's to be unpredictable and threaten escalation... in order to defeat Putin playing predictable is suicidal when your adversary is trying to hack your strategy. If he is sure, you're dove, he'll play hawk and scale up. That's how WWII happened and WWIII will. Don't project too predictable image

Posted by: Smint 14th March 2022, 12:30 PM

I said in my post I don't have the rooms to accommodate (if that changes then I would) but the point is that there are a large number people willing to host the refugees in their spare rooms. There is not a suggestion that people will be obliged to accomodate if they don't want to. Think it's £350 for one or more refugees housed.

Posted by: Bdelita 14th March 2022, 04:08 PM

So Instagram was officially blocked in Russia midnight starting yesterday. No way this will end on it though. Next up Youtube, Twitter and Tiktok I guess.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 14th March 2022, 04:40 PM

Apparently Russia is asking.China for military hardware for the war!! What happened to this modernised conventional Russian army we heard so much about? Putin's aggression ahould make NATO countries start spending more, but the paper tiger military might not feel that imposing to countries far from the border, hmm, so military spending could go either way.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 14th March 2022, 07:36 PM

Given that Putin has brought in a law that can give those who disrespect government or spread 'fake news' up to 15 years in prison, this is a very brave woman!

Posted by: Bdelita 15th March 2022, 08:53 AM

As expected no one can get a hold of her, not even the lawyers. I can only imagine what kind of nightmare she's going through right now. There's no way she'll get out of this without 15 years or alive, unfortunately.

Posted by: Dobbo. 15th March 2022, 09:18 AM

A true martyr for sure.

Posted by: Suedehead2 15th March 2022, 09:58 AM

Both within the last hour

Posted by: Bdelita 15th March 2022, 11:33 AM

I'm pretty positive that it's not her tweeting and she's still unaccounted for but she knew what she was doing so it was probably all planned out.

Posted by: Suedehead2 15th March 2022, 01:20 PM

Yes, the account has now been deleted as a fake. The search continues

Posted by: Silas 15th March 2022, 01:34 PM

Horrifying. Incredibly brave for her to do that on live TV knowing that at absolute best she’s going to be locked in a black hole for the next 15 years of her life if she even lives that long. Dark Dark Dark days ahead for Russia

Posted by: Ho-Lee Smokes 15th March 2022, 02:02 PM

Scotland are doing as much as they possibly can to get as much refugees in as possible and doing sponsorships, it's sad to see England holding us all up.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 15th March 2022, 04:13 PM

It was - her friends says her anger had been building up: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/15/russia-tv-protest-marina-ovsyannikova-ukraine-war



She's ok! <3

Posted by: Bdelita 15th March 2022, 04:22 PM

<3 At this point in time Russia needs people like her more than ever. I can't imagine how difficult this is but maybe more people will get inspired.

--

My mum and her friends are already noticing shortage of certain foods, plus I saw someone complain about how cat food (that used to be imported) prices have increased exponentially.

Another friend who is moving out as well has told me that he had some savings in USD in Russia but now with the new laws and sanctions it's literally impossible for him to take or access his own money for the foreseeable future. The country ran out of dollars and it's not possible to access them from abroad anymore anyway. It's absolutely ridiculous. They are just making people choose between financial stability or physical and emotional safety.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 15th March 2022, 05:29 PM

Fined for "illegal protest". Isn't that what the Tories want here by ckamping down on protest? Protest should not be illegal.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 15th March 2022, 06:02 PM

We can only hope that somehow Putin and his cronies dont hang onto power so brave people who are standing up for truth and what's right don't rot in prison till they die. That said latest news is the journalist has received a fine, with suggestions having children has spared her prison.

Hope so.

Posted by: Bdelita 15th March 2022, 06:57 PM

Oh wow, I didn't quite expect that. I guess her being a mother and sexism still being very prevalent in Russia makes it look like she's not as a potential threat.

Posted by: Steve201 16th March 2022, 10:49 AM

Interesting to see how many police officers were available to protect the oligarchs property in London from them anti Putin protestors trying to occupy. Next time my house is burgled I hope it won’t take 6 hours to come round and protect me!

Posted by: Smint 16th March 2022, 11:57 AM

Yep it was shockingly bad visuals - it shows 100% that the priority in this country is for the state, paid for by the many, is merely here to enrich and protect the wealthiest at all costs.

Posted by: Bustin Jieber 16th March 2022, 12:00 PM

Just tell them you're an oligarch and they'll be there at the speed of light!

Posted by: Ho-Lee Smokes 16th March 2022, 03:53 PM

seems as if ukraine are going to enter peace agreements with Russia.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 16th March 2022, 08:35 PM

Yeah there have been some positive signs of a possible peace deal today: https://www.ft.com/content/7b341e46-d375-4817-be67-802b7fa77ef1

The https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-descends-into-despair-708cb8f4a171ce3f1c1b0b8d090e38e3 this last few days have been incredibly distressing to read, let's hope there is a way to end this peacefully and soon.

Posted by: Skankhunt43 16th March 2022, 08:38 PM

I think as the president sees it, with Russia occuptinf its territory it cannoy ever get into NATO, so its best course of action in the short-term is agree to neutrality. It wouldn't be permanent. Maybe they can get Russia, so militarily weak it has to bring in reinforcements from the middle east and its pacific fleet to continue the war, to agree to concessions, such as giving back the ewstern regions. Doubt they will get Crimea, but it is a start. They might have to agree to abandoning some military bases for Russian use across the country tooo, but might be preferable to war.

Posted by: Smint 16th March 2022, 09:55 PM

I guess a ceasefire is the best option (not that anyone can trust any terms the Russians "agree" to) but it does anger me that Putin has got away with genocide of Ukranians including children and the horrific destruction of lots of cities. Must cut the cord as much as we can as long as that evil dictator is in power.

Of course Johnson then goes to another despicable regime (Saudi) today to beg for more oil.

Posted by: Ho-Lee Smokes 16th March 2022, 11:02 PM

obvious russia are panicking now and it’s why they want a peace deal, Russia have truly suffered from this and i don’t see anyway back for Putin

Posted by: Bdelita 17th March 2022, 12:53 AM

Oh global scale perhaps. Inside the situation is a polar opposite

Posted by: Popchartfreak 17th March 2022, 01:19 PM

so Putin talking about cleansing-up Russia of traitors.

That always turns out well when megalomaniac tyrants spout off about purification. Guessing he's feeling a bit vulnerable now so is getting his warnings in early that anyone who doesn't toe the line can expect a gift carefully scented with Novichok in the post. It's his go-to solution for anyone that pisses him off. That and invading neighbours.

Posted by: Zárate 17th March 2022, 11:10 PM

Hi guys,

It's been a huge while since I actively posted anywhere on here, but since I've been talking to many of you, I hope you won't mind if I squeeze in a thought or two.

Right now I'm in Turkey, I fled Russia the day before yesterday and moving to Mexico tomorrow. I bought the tickets on 4th of March, when Parliament was rumoured to claim a martial law, but instead voted for a set of very repressing laws about the "fakes" of this "special operation". Since I can be quite easily put into the action of those laws, the decision was made. And the next day the flats of tens of my acquaintances got searched by the cops, some of them got detained, accused of "false terrorism calls". I was happy to wake up by myself but moved my laptop and money to the other place the same day. Now I feel free and relieved.

I: Genesis

How did it all come to this? One can say it goes back to 1917 - 1918 with the liquidation of the Russian Constituent Assembly. And they are not wrong: the lawful evolution of power was interrupted there and is still held by the descendants of those people. Decades of total repressions and emigration of many people who can even try to think differently also played the fatal role.

But overall this war and its consequences can be described by one word (other than obvious moral degradation and total lack of empathy of any kind)

It's delusion.

Putin basically built the system of the folders laying on his desk. He was happy receiving good news in them and complemented such departments, and those who brought the difficulties weren't fired - but weren't treated nicely either. And from year to year he was fed the information that Ukrainian government is controlled by NATO / nazis, normal Ukrainians are unhappy with that, and once the Russian army enters the territory, the opposing part will immediately withdraw and people will meet the Russian soldiers with flowers. And it seems that he genuinely believed in all of it.

He also believed that all the money he threw in the army wasn't stolen. Why would it be different to any other sphere, where loads of his acquaintances often didn't even bother to hide anything, he didn't even try to ask, because - again - he is delusional.

The delusion of oligarchs that he would hold on to his initial role as a guarding dog of their treasures. The delusion of opposition thinking that he cannot be that crazy. The delusion of masses, who got very poor after USSR falling and held to the idea of the "special nation", trying to stick onto that idea as a replacement for lack of any decent physical life.

II. Collective responsibility. Where does it start and how far does it go?

I've been reading a lot of very different answers to this. Very popular opinion that it's only [mainly] Putin is to blame, and it has its basis. This decision is his and solely his own. He stopped consulting on most key decisions with anyone for a while, he literally makes most of them by himself now.

Western leaders keep saying that too, but then we see most of the sanctions hitting mainly the people who don't agree with the war. It became really hard to fly away, and EU pressed even Serbia to stop flying to Russia. Visa / Mastercard banning abroad (not internal!) operations https://www.change.org/p/visa-and-mastercard-do-not-suspend-transactions-with-russian-cards-outside-of-russia and they might have to go back simply because they stopped having the funds to live. It also means that donating to independent journalists and activists will become much harder. VPN - a magic saviour from numerous blockings of independent media - can almost only be paid through abroad visa / mastercard transactions, potentially cutting off loads of Russians who want to get not the official information.

When IELTS cancels the examination in Russia, will it make Putin angry, or will it make it even harder for kids to pass the test and try to escape Russia by going to a foreign University? When internet network operators cut Russia off, does it help to stop the war, or does it help Putin to break the internet for the Russians, and now even without even doing anything? Not to mention a https://twitter.com/reuters/status/1502036658979495940?s=21, which confirmed the paranoia of dictators all over the world and justified even further repressions.

Some people / influencers / officials say that it is all to help the people go on public strike against the war. Others even dare to add that silence means compliance with Putin. There was an enormous amount of campaigns to make companies quit Russia, blaming them for funding war otherwise - but barely anyone of activists or politicians say that EU literally funds the war every day by buying gas in enormous amounts. https://beyond-coal.eu/russian-fossil-fuel-tracker/ for selling fossils since 24th of February alone.

Obviously I know that you can't stop buying oil and gas in an instant. But all the bells rang 8 years ago. Yet the corrupt politicians were very fine with not changing this situation at all or even worsening it, therefore funding not only the preparations to this war, but all of the Putin's guards who lock away and scare off most of the opposition to the regime. And now these people want Russians to oppose the huge army of cops, who they helped to fund all these years.

Does Putin hold responsibility to this? Obviously, yes.
Should his supporters be accountable, even if they believe Russia is "saving" Ukrainians?
Should 'I stay out of politics' people be accountable trying to stay in their own shell and not saying or even thinking of anything happening in their country?
Should Navalny be responsible for his strategic voting, where he urged to vote for the current parliament parties and 95% of its candidates, all of whom very obviously then supported the war?
Should the Yabloko party be accountable for, while opposing Putin and actually predicting this war from long ago, saying the wrong words and often repulsing their own followers?
Should the international establishment be responsible for literally funding this war for years before and even now?
Should the voters of the west, just like the voters of Russia, be responsible for the actions of their respective governments, since they actually have fair elections and freedom of speech?

I believe the answer to all of this is yes.

And no. As all of the above were in the comfort zone, and really: no one in their right mind could have thought that in 2022 you can arrange a bloody war with enormous amount of casualties in the center of Europe. All of us underestimated his insanity, and it is really not hard to do so.

But I urge to give a chance to people who oppose Putin to at least to leave the country and/or get the current independent information. Blaming Russians for this war while funding its government with easy oil money is hypocritical. Sanctions regarding access to information, money transactions for normal people (say, no more than 200-500 bucks) and the ability to move must be lifted.

That said, it is obviously incompatible to all of the damage and deaths of Ukrainian people caused by the Russian army. I have friends in Kyiv and my heart breaks for them when they tell me their news.

III. Where it will lead?

My prognosis is quite pessimistic, at least for Russia. I know Ukraine will stand up, even if Putin defeats Kyiv and tries to occupy it (but seems like even he realises now it is impossible). Ukraine is an amazing country full of proud people, and I have my full faith in them that they will recover no matter what.

As for the Russians... Well, I cannot rule out the nuclear weapons use. But other than that I feel my country will have a very long decay with constant repressions of "national traitors" and "fifth column", as all of the problems will be put on them. Most of Russians will cope, like they did in the Soviet Union. Or will escape in fear, either physically or emotionally. People will buy out all the groceries and drugs from stores and will blame NATO for their miserable lives. Or be silent. And for Putin it will be even easier to run the country, which will become a vassal of China.

Mostly I pity the future of kids, who didn't even have the chance to change the narrative and now may be trapped in this system for their lives.

But I hope once I can come back and restore my country, as an independent - but friendly and peaceful state for everybody. It would play the rightful part in European society, and any rivalry will be economical. And the people would finally know how to leave without fear and with a real hope for a decent life, respecting themselves and each other.

I also hope the oligopoly of the social media will somehow change. They have the power greater than of many countries, but don't really own up to the responsibilities coming with it. And I hope that the system, when a dictatorship that exports oil and gas literally gets even more money by entering into war due to the prices rocketing up, also somehow changes.

Many hopes and fears - but one thing is clear. We have entered a new phase of life, and no one knows where it will lead us to.

Posted by: Smint 18th March 2022, 01:41 AM

Fascinating reading Zarate and glad you are safe although must be heartbreaking to see what’s going on in Russia.

Posted by: Izzy 💀 18th March 2022, 05:21 AM

Thank you for sharing Zarate, glad to see you're safely out of there.

I broadly agree with most of what you've posted there. Especially that some of the sanctions are poorly targeted and hurting ordinary Russians in a way that they could never hurt Putin and his elites. If/when his regime falls, the West should do everything it can to help Russia's economy rebuild and get them inside the tent, but that is something I can't see happening, it'd be politically kinda hard to swallow even if it makes sense in the long run.

I fear it'll be a long road before Russia is made a better country though, there is no willingness in our international order to stop authoritarians, and while they control the airwaves in Russia, little will change.

Zelensky's speeches to various national and international parliaments have been great in this regard, chastising the West for enabling Russia because of 'business' (particularly Germany with its reliance on Russian gas). Will that rhetoric change anything? Doubtful in the short term, but at least someone now considered a respected political leader is saying it.

Though I also wonder if Zelensky will now accept peace terms that return Ukraine to the status quo because at least his people will no longer be dying, a tough choice and I wish him well at the negotiating table.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 18th March 2022, 03:14 PM

Glad u got out Zarate, and I hope it all works out for you. I don't disagree with anything you say, and I am sorry ordinary Russians will be suffering. We all will to a degree, life is going to get harder. But not as much as it is for Ukranians are right now.

Putin can make things less bad, let's hope he is willing now...

Posted by: Smint 18th March 2022, 10:21 PM

Putin does a Nuremburg style rally against the "Nazis" with about a million Russian flags and creepy 'Z' symbols everywhere. Would be funny if not so tragic just how batshit this man is....

Posted by: Doctor Blind 21st March 2022, 01:44 PM

Hey - thanks for posting, a really interesting (albeit concerning) read and very good to get ur perspective on this war. It looks like a significant number of those who can have already started to get out of Russia while they are still able to. Glad to hear that you are ok even if you have had your own life turned upside-down by all of this.



That is ultimately what everyone, including the people of Russia want. Мир да пребудет с вами.

Sadly the talks look like failing or stalling, we've even had Russian troops opening fire on a peaceful crowd in Kherson this morning, but we're starting to get some counter-offensives from the Ukranians today:



Meanwhile 'the Purge' continues in Russia, Marina Ovsyannikova was apparently a 'British Spy', uh huh. Sure..

Posted by: Smint 21st March 2022, 11:06 PM

They seem to really hate the British at the moment which is ironic because of our cosy cosy involvement with Russian oligarchs and the Brexit vote. Maybe Putin sees betrayal and guess we'll be high up on Putin's nuke list. Worse places morally to be.

Posted by: Zárate 22nd March 2022, 03:42 PM

Thank you guys for the kind words, now I’m in Mexico and planning the further steps for the time being.

It is interesting that you mention Brexit, as the Russian public perception of this war reminds me of the evil twin of the UK public perception of Brexit. Literally the older demographics gets — the likelier it is to meet a supporter of this war. So older generation literally robs the younger one of a decent future with nice perspectives.

That said, everyone should take any news on public support of this war with the greatest precaution: the amount of people who agree to answer fell by three times, and obviously those who stay on the line are far more likely to get the right answers for the propaganda machine.

And yes, Ukraine is holding greatly against pretty much the biggest army in the world, and the time is in its favour, as Putin’s resources are draining and Ukraine consistently gets the military and humanitarian support from all over the world.

Posted by: Bdelita 22nd March 2022, 04:31 PM

Russia's army might be at an advantage having advanced weapons and military power (boys and their toys, am i right?) but when it comes to people behind it, they are complete amateurs with close to zero training. It's all good in theory but when it comes to action, the army is a complete joke and the majority of people try to avoid it by any means necessary (myself included, successfully, thank f*** for that). It's literally 1 year of only peeling potatoes and running degrading errands for officers of higher ranks while getting bullied by their older peers. Most have never even held a gun.

Most of the stories about how Russia is so strong when it comes to military, are from the WWII days. But those generations have already pretty much perished and back then there was an actually strong anti-fascist ideology to stand behind and support. The 9th May parade is coming and it will be a complete and utter joke as usual, now with an added layer (or a 100) of hypocrisy and 'Z'wastikas everywhere (they are already plastered all over the country with many official government organisations changing their names or slogans to include it). Younger people are far less likely to want to give their lives to a country that does nothing for its citizens especially fighting against Ukrainians who were always the closest friends with Russia for years and years prior to this and even after 2014 (just look at Eurovision televoting results).

That's me trying to convince myself that Russia will spectacularly lose this fight and I hope I'm right.

Posted by: Severin 23rd March 2022, 01:41 AM

Russia's military reputation isn't really based on WWII. No disrespect to those that fought but militarily they were inept during Barbarossa and their drive on Berlin was fueled by wave upon wave of brave young men and women. Their tactic then was one of numbers and the Eastern front really became a war of attrition that the Wehrmacht (who were unquestionably the most capable army in the world in 1941) simply couldn't keep pace with.

Their reputation, in modern terms, has far more to do with the Cold War. In practically every war game played out during the 70s/80s the Warsaw Pact steamrolled through Europe obliterating the NATO armies, whose doctrine was to respond with a nuclear strike. In any objective sense the West always lost. The Soviet army was exceptional then.

However, Afghanistan broke that somewhat and Georgia, then Syria proved their decline. And for all their supposed hi-tech equipment, they've not been able to afford mass production or risk losing the handful they have. Hence the outdated equipment we keep seeing on tv.

The Russian military has been a paper tiger for about 30 years. It's only their nuclear deterrent that makes them strong

Posted by: Zárate 23rd March 2022, 04:23 AM

^ I wouldn’t be so sure even about the nuclear equipment to be honest and thankfully! ~Some~ of the rockets can fly and even to the ordered destination, but apparently most of them will get stuck or won’t reach the target.

I really hope we won’t actually witness the state of those rockets at all though.

PS: hi Pavel, I hope you are fine too!

Posted by: Brer 24th March 2022, 03:53 AM

I had been wondering how you were doing Arrs - glad to hear you managed to make it out.

Posted by: J00prstar 5th April 2022, 12:01 PM

Utterly disgusted reading about what Russian invaders did to civilians in Bucha. How can someone be so evil? The lack of empathy is scary.

Posted by: Dobbo. 5th April 2022, 12:39 PM

These people unfortunately have the power to do whatever they like with no retribution right now

Posted by: Silas 5th April 2022, 03:40 PM

I am listening to the Russnazi response at the UN and it’s the most unhinged and untruthful statement made in public history.

It is abhorrent. This Russnazi should be expelled from the UN immediately and can be first in the dock at the war crimes tribunal.

Hes now trying to blame Bucha on the Ukrainians. This man is making me feel unholy amounts of rage.



Every single member of this regime and their henchmen should be locked in a dark, damp cell for the rest of their lives

Posted by: Skankhunt43 5th April 2022, 03:57 PM

That crazy foreign minister basically said they could nuke USA's military bases with impunity, as the US values lives far more than Russia does, and would not escalate to a full nuclear war because of the casualties.

The Russian fash regime does not care about human lives.

That poor dog, lying down by his owner's side His owner was shot dead by the war criminals.

Posted by: Popchartfreak 6th April 2022, 05:07 PM

Not that it makes them any less evil, but human history.... When you've seen what people are easily led to believe in, and commit atrocities as a result of, it comes as no shock to oldies like me. I didn't get this cynical about human nature by accident, just watching the news for 55 years will do it. I grew up with Vietnam a long-running saga, the IRA, living with bombs planted in Bournemouth and Singapore and endless re-runs of 2 recent World Wars on TV, and it's been war after war ever since. I understand how shocking it is to watch people still being evil when you are seeing it happen on a daily basis for the first time, cos that was me Young Me once. Don't stop being shocked and angry about it either, cos you can become numb to it from year after endless year of the same headlines, just to get by in life.

On the plus side, everybody knows everything Hilary Clinton and others said about Putin was spot on 100% true and that fact alone should put a firm jolt into anyone living in denial thanks to propaganda planted by Putin. They may still believe the crap but they wont be able to argue anything when the response is "so you support a mass murderer then?". Let's see Trump lie his way out of that as his begging Russia for help speech is replayed. And people generally have woken up to the fact that you can't beat evil by ignoring it and giving it shitloads of cash and business deals and cross your fingers that it will learn to be bloody wonderful by getting rich. Rich does not equal being wonderful to fellow human beings. It CAN do, but by and large it doesn't apply to politics.

Posted by: Dobbo. 6th April 2022, 09:15 PM

Excellent post and completely get that standpoint re the first paragraph.

Posted by: Severin 11th April 2022, 11:09 AM

Although slightly younger than you I feel much the same way. In fact a friend and I were discussing this with my daughter on Friday night, (she's 20 and it feels closer to home than any before). I missed being aware of Vietnam but the international news was all about Palestine, Afghanistan, Iran/Iraq war, the Falklands, and so on. Any day trip to London always came with the possibility of the IRA blowing something up and the news, films and TV shows all kept reminding us that a nuclear confrontation was mere weeks away, or as it turned out in 1983 only one, essentially disobeyed order (thank you Stanislav Petrov). This was an era where a film like Threads was primetime entertainment and it still remains probably the scariest film I've ever watched and most of us had relatives (mine was my grandad) who could tell you about the time he invaded Germany, fought the Nazis and helped liberate a concentration camp. I have a friend who came back from Northern Ireland a shell of his former self after trying to comfort his dying colleague. At the end of the 80's things did seem more optimistic but you still had Bosnia, Rwanda, Kosovo, then September 11 changed it all again and a few years later another friend came back from Basra without his legs.



What's happening now in Ukraine isn't anything strikingly different from the recent past, it's just framed that way by the media because it's white Europeans that look like us being killed and we're not the ones blowing stuff up for once, yet what happened in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, was every bit as horrific. As if to reinforce the horrors a work colleague came back from Basra without his legs.

As my friend and I said to my daughter, never let it stop you living your life, and yes you should be outraged and you should never forget what war looks like, how it's always, without fail, ordinary people that suffer the most, and you should about it do what you feel is right.

Just don't expect that it'll be the last one you have to see happen.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 25th May 2022, 04:23 AM

god I hate Kissinger with every fiber of my being

https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2022/05/24/henry-kissinger-says-ukraine-should-give-up-territory-in-a-bid-to-find-a-peace-deal.html

realpolitik realism will just embolden Russia you...

Posted by: callmeDim 21st September 2022, 08:49 AM

'Partial mobilization'.
From the creators of 'special military operation'.

Posted by: Rooney 21st September 2022, 08:56 AM

Sounds really desperate, same with the nuclear stuff. Maybe at this point Putin is banking on the West not providing Ukraine with heavy arms as that appears to have been one of the primary reasons Ukraine has benefited (along with the strategical support from the UK & US). Full mobilatisation would presumably lead to a strong backlash in Russia, not longer a "special military operation"..

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 21st September 2022, 09:35 AM

I'd like to think it's all fearmongering and he's panicked, saying I'm not bluffing actually means he kind of is and it's empty threats.

But, my anxiety keeps on telling me otherwise. I know it'll sound ridiculous to some and people annoyingly brush it off as "silly" but it affected my anxiety greatly when previous nuclear war threats were mentioned and I'm feeling the exact same way now, in fear and feeling sick with anxiety.

Posted by: Izzy 💀☄ 21st September 2022, 09:53 AM

Ukraine have been making great gains in the last few weeks, he's worried, and this will be a show of strength to arrest the declining morale of the current Russian army.

Is escalation into dangerous nuclear weapons out of the realm of possibility? no, but I don't think it's fundamentally different from Russian rhetoric up to now. More an acknowledgment that brings Russia's reality a little closer to what everyone else always knew was the reality.

What would be a desirable nuking target for them? They're not yet going to want to nuke 'future territory' and nuking would certainly lose them the support of China, whose leadership is already chafing a bit at Putin's doings in Ukraine.

Posted by: Silas 21st September 2022, 10:47 AM

I can’t help but laugh whenever I read a statement from any element of the Russian state and they’re bought and paid for agents in the west. Like the level of delusion is objectively hysterical. These fannies are inhabiting a different planet.


But I do feel for those who left previously and are now entirely cut off from their families indefinitely as there is no way any emigrant of fighting age is going to be able to go within 15 km of an embassy never mind their families in Russia without being conscripted. (Early indications from OSINT is that this is a disguise for full mobilisation). Of course my empathy does not extend to those emigrants who are in support of the invasion and have drunk the states koolaid while smugly noting they are immune from mobilisation. They need denazification (for real. Not whatever putin vomits about) or deporting so they can go serve in this illegal war they support so much. Guessing their tune might change quite quickly when faced with option 2

Posted by: Heywood Jablowme 21st September 2022, 01:25 PM

Just try to relax. The thing with these weapons is they could wipe us all out and end civilisation as we kbow ot, and create a new extinction event. However, it is, really, just an amplification of suspension of disbelief. The best way to react is to ignore the threats

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 21st September 2022, 03:48 PM

I wish my anxiety found it that easy 😅 but thanks.

Posted by: Rooney 22nd September 2022, 12:01 AM

Imo Jack, always hard not to think of the worst case scenario. I think what you have to remember is nobody wants a nuclear war, it is in nobody's interest. If Russia pulled the trigger, they would surely go for Ukraine first (and that is a very risky play). And at that point I suspect there would be international condemnation - would not even surprise me if someone close to Putin saw they future and staged a coup. India and China have been slightly more vocal and I suspect this next play is Russia playing their buff - China have been keeping a watchful eye because of Taiwan and India because of gas/oil but it's noticeable the noises they are making is because they know Russia is fighting a losing battle. If Russia pick a fight with a NATO member, it's quite clear they will get easily beaten. Just cannot see a way they do that.

Posted by: JackTheeStallion 22nd September 2022, 08:12 AM

Thanks Rooney, I have listened to other experts etc since posting and don't feel as anxious as I have.

Posted by: Doctor Blind 23rd September 2022, 10:31 PM

It's a bluff. Putin is all bark and no trousers, as we saw in February 2022 when he first threatened nuclear strikes. Classic gammon boomer who still thinks it is 1983.

The Ukrainians aren't going to treat these "referendums" seriously and continue the counter-offensives and likely support from the west remains pretty strong so it's a fairly dumb tactic from someone who seems to be going for the record of stupid and counter-productive decisions this year (run a very close second by the UK government ofc).

Posted by: Silas 24th September 2022, 04:37 PM

The thing is, he’s not dumb enough to use a nuke, even a wee one against Ukraine. And he’s not dumb enough to say that UA attacking with NATO weapons is an attack by NATO and therefore NATO territory is fair game. Because both of those scenarios end with Putin either dead or at The Hague, and probably the end of the Russian federation.


Now, it depends of course how powerful his delusions are. As there has been plenty of reports that his calls with western leaders revealed that he really did believe shit about the Ukrainians being not a real country and how it’s a historic injustice blah blah

Posted by: Smint 30th September 2022, 07:11 PM

So Putin's announcements of the annexing of the 4 regions (Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson) has occured after the sham referendums. I don't often get nightmares about political events but must admit I did about this yesterday (not the nuclear threat so much as powerless but just worries for the safety of the Ukranians there). What with everything going on at the moment....

Posted by: Silas 8th October 2022, 06:24 AM

The Kerch bridge, aka the only thing Putin has any form of human emotion about, is on fire. The road span has collapsed and there’s a fuel train that has been on fire for a couple of hours just melting the tracks. And a lot of Ukrainian officials seem to be quite heavily implying responsibility for the attack

That is some highly precise strikes to have taken out a moving train and the road deck at the same point given how narrow both of those are from a missile targeting perspective


I know a lot of online people have been waiting for this particular strike, but it is going to be interesting to see what the reaction to this is from bunker boy and indeed from the illegal occupation authorities in both the territory illegally annexed this week and in crimea

Posted by: כן 11th October 2022, 03:32 PM

sadly we didn't have to wait that long for the reaction...

the quotes from some Russian politicians including 2 former and current presidents are some of the most evil f***ing things I've ever witnessed in my lifetime. I don't understand how this can be done for a f***ing piece of land in 2022

Posted by: Doctor Blind 14th November 2022, 11:41 AM

Been following John Sweeney* reporting (along with Oz Katerji) from Ukraine.

Quite a compelling interview with him here about the current situation:



*yes he's the former BBC journalist who got angry and shouted at a scientologist in 2007.

Zelensky in the recently liberated Kherson:

Posted by: Silas 14th November 2022, 12:22 PM

Allegedly Putin has cancelled his annual press conference thing as well. Which says all you need to know about the state of things in the kremlins nuclear bunker.

Lazarov was also briefly hospitalised in Bali upon arrival but sadly it appears that he is still alive and ready to let some more lies dribble out his mouth like vomit from a drunk 19-year old at 4am hugging the downstairs loo for moral and emotional support

Posted by: Doctor Blind 14th November 2022, 12:47 PM

The dribble comment is apt, Lavrov always gives me strong Droopy dog vibes~ 🤣 'I'm so happy' etc.

The contrast between https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhg8f6fXoAAELms.jpg and Putin sending his lapdog because he is too scared to visit the G20 in Bali is massively humiliating for Russia.

Both at very high risk of assassination, only one true brave leader though.

Posted by: *Tim 15th November 2022, 07:28 PM

Reports coming in about russian missiles accidentally killing 2 in Poland, just 5km past the border