Forthcoming Framework Changes - Have your say

BuzzJack - Entertainment Discussion _ Music Contests _ Buzzjack Song Contest

Latest Site News

Hozier climbs to number one

A chart double for Beyonce

Benson Boone remains at number one

5 Pages

1 2 3 > »

Forthcoming Framework Changes - Have your say

Display modes

Track this thread - Email this thread - Print this thread - Download this thread - Subscribe to this forum

Silas View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:07 PM Post #1
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,051 User: 3,474	This afternoon the first full draft of Framework v4.0 is being written (because i'm expecting the Charity Shield to be dull af) with the aim of it coming in for the next contest. This is your chance to let us know what bits of this you don't like (and why) and how you'd change it. Also let us know what we're missing. So you can have some input into the process. There will probably be a couple of things that will stay regardless of how unpopular they may be, because they are in the best interest of the contest. Anniversary entries are here to stay but they will be getting their own mini-framework with each clause being a black flag offence. Framework as it currently stands: QUOTE The Third Veto Framework We have had a review of our framework which is coming in with immediate effect. Minor/Yellow (3 points) Artist has been recycled Song or artist has appeared in Unknown Pleasures. Song has charted in the top40 of the artists 'home' nation. Medium/Orange (7 points) The song or artist has finished in the top half of another contest on the forum, eg. Unknown Pleasures, Nuggets etc. The artist has had a top40 UK album in the past 24 months. Song has a presence on one of the big three blogs, the trifecta of Popjustice, Scandipop or Pitchfork. An additional 3 points will be allocated to songs that have appeared on any two of these three blogs Artist has come top15 previously in BJSC Song is currently in the chart of a Scandinavian nation The song/artist has charted, within the past 24 months, in one of the following nations: United States, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, France & Germany 2 or more people attempted to confirm the song. The artist has previously been entered two times in the past 30 contests. Serious/Red (12 points) The song has significant BJSC Personal Chart presence (7 or more personal charts) The song is in the Multichart during the week/s in which the confirmation process is open. The song is by an artist with a significant following on Buzzjack. The song has received substantial radio, internet, TV, or print media exposure. The song is on a Radio 1 playlist published 2 months prior to or during the confirmation period The artist/song been in the UK Top 40 Singles Chart in the past 24 months. The song has a review on one or more of the trifecta (Scandipop/Popjustice/Pitchfork) with Hyperbole set to 11. Artist has multiple top10's, or a top5 finish to their name Song or artist has been in UP in the past 24 months The song has gone top 10, within the past 12 months, in one of the following nations: Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, France, Germany, South Korea, and Japan. Song is in the Hot 100 currently More than 5 people attempted to enter the song. The song or artist charted in the Top 40 in the UK or USA pre-2000 This applies to songs like TLC's 'Creep' and Dolly Parton's 'Jolene' or any other 'classics'. Any other current or previously charted song is covered by other veto penalties in this framework) The artist has previously been entered three times in the past 30 contests. The song is a similar sounding cover version or contains a heavily used sample of a previous BJSC entry. Auto-veto/Black (25 points) The song is a straight cover of a previous BJSC entry. The song has charted in the UK Top20. The song has presence on all of the trifecta. (Scandipop, Popjustice and Pitchfork) The song is a former ESC entry. The song is currently in a national final for ESC selection. The song is a previous BJSC entry. Artist was in the previous month's top 3. Song has more than 100 replies in a genre forum thread. Song is by an Artist with an Artist Forum on Buzzjack The artist has previously been entered four times in the last 30 contests The Artist has been entered 7 times since BJSC I Song has come top 5 in Unknown Pleasures An entry to the Buzzjack Song Contest WILL be automatically vetoed if it scores 25 points or more. The threshold for vetoing is 14 points OR a Red Flag. NEW - All of the above rules may be suspended for a nations anniversary contest (50th, 100th, 250th, 500th, 1000th etc) for artists that are significant to a nation. This must be applied for 2 contests in advance. The only rule is that you cannot send a single by your nominated artist or anything from the current campaign. For Example: Ashton could send any Sugababes non-single, FSR Rontvia could send any non-single by Delta, Ramrynia could send any non-single by Diana Vickers. You may claim this exemption for only one artist ever and the choice behind this artist must be justified as to why they are significant to your nation. The three examples all used those artists as their debut and are well known loons for those artists.


*Tim View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:10 PM Post #2
Bitch of t seet Joined: 2 April 2012 Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660	Definately the inclusion of Spotify (not "appears on so and so playlist", but appears in top 100, top 50 or whatever) Also I'd make a difference between a song that hit say #68 in France and one that reached #11


mdh View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:11 PM Post #3
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 19 December 2015 Posts: 20,102 User: 22,776	I think there should be a lot more emphasis on Spotify placings - as songs like The Ocean got through the veto when it was top 50 worldwide. Spotify is even more of a reflection of popularity of a song than iTunes these days so some rules regarding placings on Spotify are relevant in the updated framework.


Long Dong Silver View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:33 PM Post #4
Buffy/Charmed Joined: 18 April 2013 Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639	Spotify!! Also what Tim said about chart placings. Avsong should get more points the higher it got in the charts and basically nothing for #68 etc.


Brer View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:43 PM Post #5
I'll just stick around and do some more damage Joined: 14 February 2009 Posts: 115,023 User: 8,300	Yeah 7 veto points for something like a #68 hit from France is definitely too much (especially if it's just a different song by the same artist that charted). There should be some position cutoff for that I think.


✖ leww ✖ View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:47 PM Post #6
escape in the taste of summerrrrrr Joined: 8 August 2009 Posts: 27,306 User: 9,403	my main thing (posting here cos i'll forget) is i don't know why 12 points isn't awarded to any artist who has been in uk top 40 singles chart and that it's just pre-2000s


dandy* View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:50 PM Post #7
Mansonette Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 35,248 User: 54	I'd argue an appearance on Pitchfork is hardly the end of the world these days & I don't think they regularly promote music that does well in this contest anyway. It definitely needs something for Spotify and, without wishing to start a huge debate on this point, it would be good if there was something that said no Plug memes. However I'd prefer the people who regularly use Plug to monitor that themselves and just say if a track is too ubiquitous there so that it doesn't feel like those people who don't use it are judging them all!


Silas View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:51 PM Post #8
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,051 User: 3,474	It depends how 'big' the chart is tho. For example: A 76 in the United States is a bigger deal than a 76 in the UK (outside of official chart) which in turn is a much bigger deal than a 68 in the Netherlands (tiny market). It's all relative to how big the market is, how long their official chart is, how much attention Buzzjack pays to that market & how reflective the chart performance is of 'hit status' and thus how likely a song is to be recognised. The chart section will be rewritten but a #68 hit is a big deal in some charts like the American chart. The French chart is a good example of one where a 68 is actually a fairly big deal if the artist isn't french - as it's a notoriously tough market to crack.


*Tim View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:52 PM Post #9
Bitch of t seet Joined: 2 April 2012 Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660	QUOTE(Cucumberella @ Aug 7 2016, 12:47 PM) my main thing (posting here cos i'll forget) is i don't know why 12 points isn't awarded to any artist who has been in uk top 40 singles chart and that it's just pre-2000s If you're gonna include all artists, I think 12 might be a bit much? Or am I alone in this?


Long Dong Silver View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:52 PM Post #10
Buffy/Charmed Joined: 18 April 2013 Posts: 44,007 User: 18,639	That is strange tbh.


Silas View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:56 PM Post #11
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,051 User: 3,474	QUOTE(Cucumberella @ Aug 7 2016, 01:47 PM) my main thing (posting here cos i'll forget) is i don't know why 12 points isn't awarded to any artist who has been in uk top 40 singles chart and that it's just pre-2000s It was added as a reaction to people entering 'classic' tracks that were too old to be caught out by any other part of the framework. It's not broad because someone who's had a minor hit in the UK isn't necessarily 'cheap' nor uninspired.


Iz 🌟 View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 12:58 PM Post #12
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,403 User: 12,929	Would something like dividing all chart appearances into major (US & UK + big hits from other countries), medium (medium-sized hits from other countries), minor (tiny hits from tiny markets) along the three levels work? Then we can flexibly assign tracks to different sections depending on how likely it is that that chart position has made it a notable hit and be more lenient if it's a different song or just an album from the same artist.


*Tim View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:03 PM Post #13
Bitch of t seet Joined: 2 April 2012 Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660	QUOTE(Iz~ @ Aug 7 2016, 12:58 PM) Would something like dividing all chart appearances into major (US & UK + big hits from other countries), medium (medium-sized hits from other countries), minor (tiny hits from tiny markets) along the three levels work? Then we can flexibly assign tracks to different sections depending on how likely it is that that chart position has made it a notable hit and be more lenient if it's a different song or just an album from the same artist. But do we really want tiny hits in tiny countries to account to contribute to points? That'd cause even more vetos


dandy* View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:04 PM Post #14
Mansonette Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 35,248 User: 54	With reference to my earlier comment about Pitchfork. Pavel has sent both Cut Copy and Hot Chip who are extremely well known names amongst indie fans but can sail through the veto process - Given that indie music is often just released on albums with hype around tracks rather than successful singles, penalising new acts who happen to get a feature on Pitchfork is bizarre and to me doesn't actually target the acts who should get a veto.


Silas View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:07 PM Post #15
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,051 User: 3,474	The only way a tiny market features in is if it's their home market. Otherwise they don't count for points at all because they are fairly irrelevant. A trio of scales may be appropriate for dividing up our named nations though. Adds complexity but I'm not against that.


Silas View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:16 PM Post #16
Queen of Soon Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 74,051 User: 3,474	QUOTE(*Tim @ Aug 7 2016, 02:03 PM) But do we really want tiny hits in tiny countries to account to contribute to points? That'd cause even more vetos Nope because in spite of the 'my eyes just rolled so hard it gave me a migraine' comments on this particular section of the veto rules last month they don't have a enough of an impact on their own to show a song is breaking through. A hit in BeNeLux isn't a huge indicator of a song breaking through, add in France and you bring in a major music market and it starts to look like a smash. Scandinavia by all rights should be irrelevant as they are small markets, but BJSC is stacked full (and has been since forever) of Scandinavian artists and thus those charts start to be a good indicator of whats happening in that section of BJSC (same for Korea and Japan despite both being high sales they're fairly closed markets).


JosephBoone View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:20 PM Post #17
you never forget your first time... Pronouns: he/him Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,467 User: 13,530	I've suggested this before but thought it'd probably good to bring it up here - I'd like to see the Capital FM playlist added to the framework because it is just as important in hit-making as the Radio 1 playlist is in the UK! But yes, I'd also like to see differentiation between different chart positions. Getting 7 points for #98 in Australia seems a bit excessive to me but I'm sure you're all capable of making the necessary tweaks to that.


Iz 🌟 View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:20 PM Post #18
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,403 User: 12,929	QUOTE(*Tim @ Aug 7 2016, 02:03 PM) But do we really want tiny hits in tiny countries to account to contribute to points? That'd cause even more vetos A 3 pointer does very little to contribute to a veto most of the time. And yeah, like Silas said, I'm only thinking in terms of points getting added for countries currently on the list, but the small hits that are currently getting 7 points for having a small hit in the countries on the list would instead get 3. I do feel like the big blogs could use some change but I'm not entirely sure how to approach it differently. Pitchfork doesn't have as much of a reach anymore like Dandy has said and neither does Scandipop, or while it still has some impact, at least it's not being checked religiously like it was in 2012 and 2013 when the problem of someone taking something off Scandipop's front page that half the other participants had already listened to and put into personal charts was quite real, most of the entries that've come off Scandipop lately have gotten the standard 7 points for it without anything else - not necessarily a bad thing, just showing how it's become a bit isolated. Also ideally with the 'trifecta' I'd want it to be one of each really, one indie-focused (but mainly only to catch big names in the indie world), one pop-focused (Popjustice) and one dance-focused, maybe keeping Scandipop in there as a fourth to catch big Scandinavian releases. But I don't know if the other two exist that'd catch all the big new hyped dance and indie tracks perfectly. Maybe some of those would be caught with Spotify anyway, I'm rambling.


*Tim View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:22 PM Post #19
Bitch of t seet Joined: 2 April 2012 Posts: 27,395 User: 16,660	QUOTE(Iz~ @ Aug 7 2016, 01:20 PM) A 3 pointer does very little to contribute to a veto most of the time. And yeah, like Silas said, I'm only thinking in terms of points getting added for countries currently on the list, but the small hits that are currently getting 7 points for having a small hit in the countries on the list would instead get 3. OOps, the misunderstanding, I thought you meant adding more tiny markets


Iz 🌟 View member profile	Aug 7 2016, 01:24 PM Post #20
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,403 User: 12,929	QUOTE(*Tim @ Aug 7 2016, 02:22 PM) OOps, the misunderstanding, I thought you meant adding more tiny markets As much as I'd enjoy scouring through the depths of the charts of Uzbekistan I don't think it'd be particularly useful for BJSC purposes.