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BuzzJack Music Forum _ Spice Girls _ If the girls hadn’t sacked Fuller!

Posted by: Spiceboy 25th April 2020, 03:53 PM

I’m just reading the Spice Girls book by Sean Smith (it’s ok so far but nowhere near as good as the David Sinclair one)... and I am just at the part where they have sacked Fuller. It has never really occurred to me how quickly the wheels came off the (Spice) bus after this. Geri literally left a few months later, also all the merchandise deals pretty much seemed to fizzle out after he left. It’s interesting to see he already had plans in motion for a third album and a second film as well as the world tour. It made me wonder what would have happened if he stayed? Do we think Geri would have left, would two of the girls have gotten pregnant I mean I’m sure I read somewhere that Fuller was anti male dancers for the tours so Mel might not have even met Jimmy Gulzer, would a third album have been done, a second movie, how would solo careers have played out... it’s so interesting 🧐

Do you think the girls were right to sack him or was it a huge mistake?

Posted by: Jay ☆ 25th April 2020, 04:22 PM

This thread has made me think that if the girls hadn't sacked Simon, then perhaps Simon wouldn't have had the time or motivation to come up with the concept of S Club 7! I feel like some of the ideas he had with S Club 7 is stuff the Spice Girls could have feasibly done... like having their own TV series.

It's hard to say whether they were right or wrong to sack Simon. As managers go, he was clearly making some genius decisions for them commercially. In terms of their personal lives the Spice Girls seemingly felt hard done by though, so he evidently failed to find the right balance, so in that sense maybe they were right to part ways with him. Maybe he got so carried away with the success, and focusing on maintaining that success, that he failed to empathise with the fact that they were young adults who needed breaks, that they were not just a commodity. If they had tried to persevere with Simon, perhaps they would have become so disillusioned that it could have lead to the band imploding, and a shock break up of the group? You never know, it could have been worse in the long run if they had kept him on, even though on paper it seems that keeping him on could have resulted in continued huge success beyond 1998.

The funny thing is is that I'm sure one of them commented that once they sacked Simon they actually had to work even harder, so their idea of sacking him might have ended up being a bit of a "the grass is greener on the other side" situation. I wonder if any of them secretly regretted it? They were all so young and sure of themselves, that they probably resolutely felt it was the right decision in the moment... without really thinking of the long term consequences.

Simon commented at some point that the tour would have been quite different if he had still be calling the shots, I think he said it would have had bigger production values?

Posted by: Mr.X 25th April 2020, 04:33 PM

Im sorry but Simon needed to learn his lesson and it seems like he has.

They would have been worked to the bone if they had carried on together, and as much as we would have appreciated more music and better management/focus on the group, as well as a new movie and an ACTUAL World Tour, the girls were ultimately very unhappy with him for a long time, some of them were ill for years because of the workload he put them through.

Personally, I wish he would have simply listened to them and they could have still made all the plans but with more time off. I always thought that it was weird that he pushed them to release Spiceworld so quickly after Spice tbh, and specially in the middle of soooooooooo much sponsorship deals and merchandise being available everywhere. I think the album's sales suffered from that, and so did the girls. Everyone was exhausted, the girls AND the public...

The demand was always there and they could have taken a bit more of a break here and there. I mean, there are reports that sometimes the girls would go MONTHS without a day off. That's really bad and unprofessional though, no wonder they burned out so quickly!

So... I don't know. Do I wish things would have worked out differently? Sure. But not at the expense of their health.

Posted by: Jay ☆ 25th April 2020, 05:07 PM

Looking back, it is kind of crazy to think that they sacked him in the week of their second album's release, and after just 5 singles. It does make you wonder whether tensions were heightened in what must have been one of the busiest weeks of their lives though, they must have been extra tired and fed up with such an intense promotional schedule.

They really had no period of rest between Spice and Spiceworld. Spice promotion in the US continued into the summer of 1997, they filmed the movie and recorded the 2nd album, and then they were immediately thrown into promoting Spice Up Your Life and the album all over the world, as well as rehearsing for Istanbul. It's easy to understand why Simon had his sights set on them having new material in Q4 though. He was totally striking while the iron was hot. Arguably he could have given the Spice Girls and the 'Spice' era a bit more breathing space, but the music industry was so fast paced... if they'd waited until sometime in 1998 to release a second album, they could have risked being yesterday's news by having waited a bit too long to follow up.

They did so much work in such a short period of time... from Wannabe becoming a hit in the UK, to sacking Simon Fuller, was just 1 year and 4 months! A relatively brief working relationship (if you also count pre-fame, it was 2 and a half years).

The thing is, like I said in my previous post, is that in the end they didn't actually give themselves more time off once they sacked him. November/December/January 98 continued to be a huge workload of promoting the album and the movie, recording the Stop music video, and then it was time to rehearse for the tour. By sacking Simon they certainly sent out a message that they had power and a say in their own destiny, but if the point in sacking him was to get more time off, they didn't seem to allow themselves to do that anyway lol.

The girls really needed social media, YouTube and fast internet speeds in those days! It would have cut their workload down so much, they wouldn't have needed to fly everywhere constantly to ensure that they were maintaining success in countless different countries.

Posted by: schizo_spice 25th April 2020, 06:31 PM

I think Simon didn't understand the group. His saying he would've replaced Geri just about said it all really. The Spice Girls weren't Destinys Child or Sugababes.

I also hate to think what could've happened with Mel and Victoria's pregnancies under his control either but just look at how Nicole Appleton was forced into having an abortion to keep the band going.

Simon did a lot for them no doubt about it and they wouldnt have been quite the level of success they were without him, however he clearly didn't understand their chemistry and how much his overworking them was causing friction between members.

Girls Aloud got regular breaks from each other between eras which I think was the key to their longevity. The Spice Girls needed this aswell.

Posted by: Piers 25th April 2020, 07:46 PM

Mixed thoughts on this. I do think Simon could have given the group's iconic era a grand finale and sense of closure (instead of the two year downward spiral we got instead). He could have also guided the girls into their solo careers in a comfortable transition where they weren't unleashing five albums in a year and canceling out each other's chances of success.

But. That said. While Simon did a lot of good, he wasn't a perfect manager. Some of the deals he was signing were getting a bit...iffy and questionable. Meanwhile, there was a truly great opportunity to record a song for the Hercules soundtrack that he let fell apart on his watch. It couldn't have taken that long for the group to record. Song was already written. A relationship with Disney would have been beneficial in the longterm. A quality collaboration. But instead...he was the type of manager who made sure the world got Spice Girls pizza.

Beyond that, it was actually after he was gone that the group really started showing their ability as live performers. I know he's said some things about making the tour bigger and better through a series of sponsorship deals. But. Would a truckload more commercials have been good for them at that point after they'd done so many already? Also. Istanbul happened under his watch. While I like Istanbul, the world tour/Wembley is technically a better show. I guess he could have gotten us a fancier stage or something. But...the way it happened...we got a solid show...that didn't have to come with a hundred more sponsorship deals...and it didn't cost young fans an arm and a leg either.

As for the second movie, I'm not sure I can quite envision the half scripted/half improvised approach he's proposed. I think there might have been a fun road trip movie to come out of the tour. But making them shoot the movie while touring AND (presumably) writing a third album all at the same time seems impossible. Furthermore, while I basically like Spice World for what a camp movie it is...if we're being honest, we could have gotten a better film had Simon not used his nepotism to hire his brother as screenwriter.