Game of Thrones • The Last of the Starks

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Game of Thrones • The Last of the Starks, S08E04 | SPOILERS INSIDE

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Jαsє View member profile	6th May 2019, 04:21 PM Post #21
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 13 June 2011 Posts: 19,828 User: 14,043	Emilia Clarke's acting was top notch. That look of pure unadulterated hatred for Cersei at the end of the episode was something else!


Dexton View member profile	6th May 2019, 05:06 PM Post #22
rip in peace Dickston Joined: 29 January 2017 Posts: 9,563 User: 25,045	The first three episodes should’ve been part of season 7 tbh to finish up the Night King story arc then had 5-6 episodes completely dedicated to vs Cersei. Then there’s at least a bit more time to build up towards Dany going mad, Jaime killing Cersei, Arya and The Hound trekking south, Euron travelling etc. There’s plenty of story here it’s just too fast paced sometimes and gets messy way too easily. Bringing all the characters together was a great thing at first as we see people like Tyrion and Jon in the same room for the first time since season 1 but at the same time it means there’s less location jumping which means less story padding. I’m still loving the show of course but this wasn’t the best episode, maybe part of that is just because of how great last weeks was but I’m not convinced by quite a few major plot points this week. The acting remains as always phenomenal by everyone though This post has been edited by Dexton: 6th May 2019, 05:12 PM


blacksquare View member profile	6th May 2019, 05:25 PM Post #23
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 25 July 2016 Posts: 4,364 User: 23,471	QUOTE(365 @ May 6 2019, 05:00 PM) I think it’s the opposite than for most of us. It’s more because it’s too predictable than it is shocking. It’s a disappointingly tropey way for her to end after following her story so long. For me it would have been a more interesting story for her to fall and stumble but about how she avoids ending up like her dad. It’s become very obvious that she’ll torch King’s Landing or try and Jon will kill her. And it’s more about the way it’s happened rather than the fact it happened. It feels rushed and not all too convincing. This is exactly how I feel. Her character is going from 0 to 100 in the most obvious and boring way possible. I was hoping they would subvert the hints (her father and so on) and write something more interesting. Her character is beloved and deserves more than turning 'mad' over the space of an episode and then getting killed off by Jon or Arya. Likely Jon, for basic shock value. QUOTE(365 @ May 6 2019, 05:00 PM) I know we all love this show which is why we’re here. But it’s hard to ignore that it’s become rather sloppy this season (and some of the last) if you compare it to how intricate it used to be. This as well. We have loved this show for years — it's not ridiculous to expect more. This post has been edited by blacksquare: 6th May 2019, 05:30 PM


lotita View member profile	6th May 2019, 05:31 PM Post #24
feminist icon Pronouns: she/her Joined: 21 April 2015 Posts: 25,354 User: 21,777	GHOST DESERVES BETTER


dandy* View member profile	6th May 2019, 05:35 PM Post #25
Mansonette Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 35,312 User: 54	I agree with the people who think the pacing is a bit off, the whole part with Euron appearing and killing a dragon and capturing Missandei in the blink of an eye just felt really underwhelming and yet should have felt significant. Arya's story with her list could have been better paced, it was a big thing and then seemingly has gone quiet for ages, although obviously Cersei remains. Cersei's whole story suddenly feels empty, we've barely seen her and it feels like she's not as much of a threat as she should be, there was ample time to focus on her plans as well as those of the North (brief bit around bringing the people inside the walls aside) and all in all she's never felt like less of a threat or important than she does at this moment when she's supposed to be the most powerful position. And the story with Dany does feel rushed - the way her allies have died one by one just feels like a forced plot line to justify her journey to rage rather than a natural part of the story. The most significant thing for me though is the lack of decent dialogue. Since the show moved past the books I just don't think the humour and interesting play between characters has been there, I can't remember the last time the show made me laugh where as it did quite regularly in the first few seasons. Yep the battles have been big etc but it's always been the dialogue that's kept me interested - it's telling for me that more recent character additions in the latter series are not as well fleshed out at all and are a tad one dimensional, while those that survived to this stage, with a couple of exceptions such as Sansa, haven't really been developed further. Also - one final tiny groan, the characters are dying in too predictable an order! It feels like ages since a truly central character met their demise.


Severin View member profile	6th May 2019, 05:36 PM Post #26
Mansonette Joined: 3 November 2009 Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872	QUOTE(lotita @ May 6 2019, 06:31 PM) GHOST DESERVES BETTER This. But I reckon Jon will go North of the wall and reunite ultimately


Klaus View member profile	6th May 2019, 05:50 PM Post #27
❤️❤️➕🟦 Joined: 3 June 2012 Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160	I watched the episode this morning and I’m still not sure what to think, torn in my thoughts I don’t agree that Dany’s Mad Queen arc is as sudden as some believe, the seeds have been there for quite a long time I feel. Whether it’s the right approach, I’m not sure. Losing two of your dragons, and then two of your closest allies is going to take a hit, and it shows a more humane side to her than Cersei, who whilst she was dedicated to her children, now they’ve gone and she’s devoted and loving the power. This is where the show is going to falter though as Dany or Jon on the throne is the most natural/predictable but is another person being there going to be as satisfying?


dandy* View member profile	6th May 2019, 06:08 PM Post #28
Mansonette Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 35,312 User: 54	QUOTE(Klaus @ May 6 2019, 06:50 PM) I don’t agree that Dany’s Mad Queen arc is as sudden as some believe, the seeds have been there for quite a long time I feel. Whether it’s the right approach, I’m not sure. Losing two of your dragons, and then two of your closest allies is going to take a hit, and it shows a more humane side to her than Cersei, who whilst she was dedicated to her children, now they’ve gone and she’s devoted and loving the power. This is where the show is going to falter though as Dany or Jon on the throne is the most natural/predictable but is another person being there going to be as satisfying? I agree with these two bits in principle, I think the signs have been there for an age but it's just the sudden culling of her key people (while pretty much everyone else isn't losing anyone that significant) that I think makes it feel odd pace wise. And yes anyone other than Dany or Jon and it does indeed run the risk of feeling very underwhelming - the only other satisfying ending for me would be to somehow end up with no iron throne and not have a single ruler. Even someone like Arya and Sansa who I've loved as characters would feel odd.


lotita View member profile	6th May 2019, 06:19 PM Post #29
feminist icon Pronouns: she/her Joined: 21 April 2015 Posts: 25,354 User: 21,777	im fully here for sansa to end up on the throne


dandy* View member profile	6th May 2019, 06:46 PM Post #30
Mansonette Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 35,312 User: 54	Actually yes, to be fair, I probably was being rash with her as she will have been on quite the journey of growth to get there.


Klaus View member profile	6th May 2019, 06:50 PM Post #31
❤️❤️➕🟦 Joined: 3 June 2012 Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160	I'm thinking about it too, and I actually agree with Sansa. Jaime is a potential other one, based on his character growth - the only problem being is that, in terms of names, its another Lannister.


Severin View member profile	6th May 2019, 07:00 PM Post #32
Mansonette Joined: 3 November 2009 Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872	Varys to serve the realm as head of parliament


Botchia View member profile	6th May 2019, 07:52 PM Post #33
I Drink Wine Joined: 12 April 2015 Posts: 10,485 User: 21,753	Sansa would feel very natural on the Iron Throne. Her journey has been from the girl who wanted to be a figurehead queen to a king to one who would be able to rule in her own right and has clearly been a competent leader of the North in Jon's absence (and very well liked and supported too). If Dany and Jon fall out of the equation for whatever reason, Sansa would be next in the line of succession for the Throne as the eldest closest relative to Jon (Aegon) (and given "Bran" doesn't exist...unless he chose to suddenly exist?!).


Chez Wombat View member profile	6th May 2019, 07:53 PM Post #34
The owls are not what they seem Pronouns: He/him Joined: 11 July 2009 Posts: 37,130 User: 9,232	Yes I still think Sansa would be the most likely, she’s had the biggest journey and it would really make sense, considering the show likes to play with our expectations!


365 View member profile	6th May 2019, 08:24 PM Post #35
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 11 October 2013 Posts: 31,028 User: 19,931	I think Sansa will end up Queen of the independent north. It makes most sense for her.


365 View member profile	6th May 2019, 08:56 PM Post #36
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 11 October 2013 Posts: 31,028 User: 19,931	This has been one of the worst received episodes ever.


Botchia View member profile	6th May 2019, 09:29 PM Post #37
I Drink Wine Joined: 12 April 2015 Posts: 10,485 User: 21,753	I think the problem is they've raised the bar of expectation so high with pre-series hype that the disappointments have been made to feel even worse and more underwhelming!


Severin View member profile	6th May 2019, 09:30 PM Post #38
Mansonette Joined: 3 November 2009 Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872	QUOTE(Botchia @ May 6 2019, 08:52 PM) Sansa would feel very natural on the Iron Throne. Her journey has been from the girl who wanted to be a figurehead queen to a king to one who would be able to rule in her own right and has clearly been a competent leader of the North in Jon's absence (and very well liked and supported too). If Dany and Jon fall out of the equation for whatever reason, Sansa would be next in the line of succession for the Throne as the eldest closest relative to Jon (Aegon) (and given "Bran" doesn't exist...unless he chose to suddenly exist?!). Lord Gendry Baratheon of Storm's End says otherwise. The line of succession goes up before it goes sideways, normally, and if the Targaryen's are eliminated and he can establish his claim as accepted, as Robert's only heir his claim outweighs Sansa's, especially since he's now legitmised (by either the rightful heir or a usurper). Both Jaime and Tyrion have stronger claims in that sense too. After Cersei, Jaimie is next in line from her now he's renounced his Kingsguard status. Tyrion next. Lots of ifs and it's a legal minefield with at least 2 usurpers since the original Targaryen dynasty (Robert being one and either Cersei or Danaerys/Aegon depending on your point of view).


Rooney View member profile	6th May 2019, 11:34 PM Post #39
WINTER IS COMING Joined: 7 March 2006 Posts: 45,604 User: 88	The problem with the show this size is, everyone has their own thoughts and theories and when they don't go as planned, people tend to negatively react to the series. I agree the dialogue and character pacing is a bit off, but sometimes I think Game of Thrones set the bar too high. The sheer size of the first 6 seasons clearly took it out on the whole team involved. I personally thought the episode was largely good alhough the gigantic spoiler I read a couple of weeks ago looks like it's going to happen. Firstly though I don't know why people think it's predictable Drogon is going to burn down King's Landing.. we saw that in season 5/6, everything else in Bran's vision came true. The signs of Dany being batshit have been there since Season 1. Again maybe it's predictable, but when it's all layed out there for 8 years I think it's a payoff in a narrative sense.


SGrey View member profile	7th May 2019, 05:19 AM Post #40
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 4 December 2013 Posts: 8,400 User: 20,182	I don’t think her becoming the mad queen is at all as sudden as some people make it out to be. I know I’m referring a lot to the last season but if you consider her ignoring Jon after Olenna was killed and attacking the Lannister’s, ignoring Tyrion to go north when Jon was in trouble and even killing the Tarly’s. As for the sudden loss of Jorah and Missandei and of course Rhaegal, is that not what happens in war? Anyone would be in a change of character if they’d suffered that!