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> The Tory fibs and fabrishications thread, Mk III, Ready for Rishi Rich
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Rooney
post Mar 14 2023, 09:33 PM
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Looks like nursey provisions will be extended to 1 and 2 year olds tomorrow. Big policy that for the swing voters, probably doing it before Labour would as well.
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Suedehead2
post Mar 14 2023, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Mar 14 2023, 09:33 PM) *
Looks like nursey provisions will be extended to 1 and 2 year olds tomorrow. Big policy that for the swing voters, probably doing it before Labour would as well.

Which is one reason why opposition parties hesitate to publish detailed policies. The government will steal them and claim all the credit.
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Iz 💀
post Mar 15 2023, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Mar 14 2023, 10:30 PM) *
Which is one reason why opposition parties hesitate to publish detailed policies. The government will steal them and claim all the credit.


hence why I support Labour publishing policies that the Tories would never do, because the whole point of getting them into the government is the differentiation between the two parties.

It's a needed policy but I would have tended towards solutions that trend towards lowered costs for families overall to reduce the need for childcare and a working system that is understanding of parents taking time out to look after their own children. Current high demand for childcare is a symptom of a poor working culture.
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Smint
post Mar 15 2023, 12:36 AM
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I'm thinking that Tories nicking left leaning Labour policies (even if they're not going to be truly socialist) is great as it shifts the Overton window economically (even if not in terms of social issues) to the left. Then when the policy that the Tories have nicked is popular, Labour can go even more left for next election.
But of course, in the First Past the Post, adversarial mess which is UK politics, it's ALL about getting your particular party into power.


This post has been edited by Smint: Mar 15 2023, 12:37 AM
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Rooney
post Mar 15 2023, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE(Iz 💀 @ Mar 15 2023, 12:28 AM) *
hence why I support Labour publishing policies that the Tories would never do, because the whole point of getting them into the government is the differentiation between the two parties.

It's a needed policy but I would have tended towards solutions that trend towards lowered costs for families overall to reduce the need for childcare and a working system that is understanding of parents taking time out to look after their own children. Current high demand for childcare is a symptom of a poor working culture.


I'm not sure the demand of childcare is due to a poor working culture. Childcare costs are extortinate, inflexible and nursery workers are poorly paid and the costs are extortinate. I'd say the demand of childcare is due to the social evolution of the world (two people having careers these days, not just one) and the reality that businesses can't be as flexible as we need to. I think there's still way more that can be done by employers, but I'm expecting hybrid working to be way less flexible than it currently is in the future for lots of people as businesses who weren;t accustom to it before feel the effects (and tax).
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Iz 💀
post Mar 15 2023, 04:31 AM
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Mar 15 2023, 12:57 AM) *
I'm not sure the demand of childcare is due to a poor working culture. Childcare costs are extortinate, inflexible and nursery workers are poorly paid and the costs are extortinate. I'd say the demand of childcare is due to the social evolution of the world (two people having careers these days, not just one) and the reality that businesses can't be as flexible as we need to. I think there's still way more that can be done by employers, but I'm expecting hybrid working to be way less flexible than it currently is in the future for lots of people as businesses who weren;t accustom to it before feel the effects (and tax).


So yeah, part of that speaks to an inefficient childcare system that works for neither the workers or the customer - and this is a good policy as it helps at least the latter directly. The other part is that this bolded part being a reality for most families is not good, I think, for society. If parents are absent from a child's upbringing, they're more likely, on the whole, to be less invested in their development - ideally there should be a non-working family member to take care of the children and keep the household costs down and ideally that should be either parent. At least in formative years. Employers should be way more understanding of these breaks in a career for the good of society and indeed more flexible. I imagine hybrid (or remote) working should be easily offered wherever it makes sense from now on - that would in part alleviate these issues without a drop in work productivity, I don't see how businesses will be moving away from that specifically either.

There's little niggles in this policy that are indicative of its Tory origins, specific age groups, means-testing, just enough to keep the second parent mostly employed, specifically targeted to put more people in work rather than addressing the overall costs of living that force this. It's a live-to-work policy, basically. Which puts it behind an ideal Labour policy, although I suspect the current incarnation of Labour would create something similar.
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Envoirment
post Yesterday, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE(Iz �� @ Mar 15 2023, 04:31 AM) *
So yeah, part of that speaks to an inefficient childcare system that works for neither the workers or the customer - and this is a good policy as it helps at least the latter directly. The other part is that this bolded part being a reality for most families is not good, I think, for society. If parents are absent from a child's upbringing, they're more likely, on the whole, to be less invested in their development - ideally there should be a non-working family member to take care of the children and keep the household costs down and ideally that should be either parent. At least in formative years. Employers should be way more understanding of these breaks in a career for the good of society and indeed more flexible. I imagine hybrid (or remote) working should be easily offered wherever it makes sense from now on - that would in part alleviate these issues without a drop in work productivity, I don't see how businesses will be moving away from that specifically either.

There's little niggles in this policy that are indicative of its Tory origins, specific age groups, means-testing, just enough to keep the second parent mostly employed, specifically targeted to put more people in work rather than addressing the overall costs of living that force this. It's a live-to-work policy, basically. Which puts it behind an ideal Labour policy, although I suspect the current incarnation of Labour would create something similar.


I've always thought that both parents should be able to take up to a year from work and stagger it. So 1st year one parent is off and 2nd year the other. Both to benefit parents and the child but also to put fathers with equal responsibility in the upbringing of children to shift the traditional narrative that it should be mainly for the mother to deal with. With something like full pay of 6 months at work and then 6 months statutory from the government. It would greatly relieve the need for childcare for children under 2. It baffles me that parental leave for most of those that didn't give birth to the child is a paltry 1-2 weeks.

Rishi has published his tax returns which shows he paid:

227,350 on total earnings of 1,018,389 in 2019/20
393,217 on total earnings of 1,777,581 in 2020/21
432,493 on total earnings of 1,970,992 in 2021/22

In total 1,053,069 on earnings of 4,766,962. That works out at ~22% of his earnings paid as tax. I find the way the BBC reporting it to be a bit too nice, with the title of the article stating he paid over 1 million in tax but not putting it into context, stating % of tax or comparing it to the average person. Labour have pounced on this thankfully and Keir Starmer has now published his tax report for the last couple years:

51,547 on total earnings of 147,633 in 2020/21
67,033 on total earnings of 212,087 in 2021/22

In total 118,580 on earnings of 359,720. That works out at ~33% of his earnings paid as tax. Looks much better than Rishi % wise but still below what you would expect it to be compared to the average worker. Although it's more than likely due to the way capital gains taxes work, ISAs and other rules which allow those with more money to pay less tax. Which begs the question of reform of the tax system, simplifyng the rules whilst closing loopholes regarding paying less tax.


This post has been edited by Envoirment: Yesterday, 06:18 PM
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