BuzzJack
Entertainment Discussion

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register | Help )

Latest Site News
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Danganronpa, Hope and Despair
Track this topic - Email this topic - Print this topic - Download this topic - Subscribe to this forum
Iz~
post Mar 4 2019, 03:27 AM
Post #1
felt kawaii, might delete buzzjack later idk
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 29,362
Member No.: 12,929
Joined: 3-February 11
 


Thanks to Dirca's Buzzchart clues I've been playing a LOT of Danganronpa 1 recently. Very nearly finished it. It's so good! A bit archetypal but very tense and a good range of those archetypal characters to root for (and hope they don't die). Tickles my brain cells just right working out how exactly the murder mystery happened before I get told in the trial. And now my one failing in Steam collecting is that I never managed to hoard Danganronpa 2 and 3 to continue for when I finish it.

plus I do want to be sure I'm not weird for thinking that Byakuya is pretty brilliant, every time they make him more unlikeable I find myself liking him more
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dircadirca
post Mar 4 2019, 07:51 AM
Post #2
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,313
Member No.: 19,614
Joined: 28-July 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


ha, unintended impact. I've always had an interest in murder mysteries, both for the tension of having potentially expendable cast members and the intrigue of how the writer/killer can weave together confounding murder plots, so Danganronpa fills those both quite well. I think the first person perspective really elevates that too. There's something so especially chilling about walking around such an isolated, menacing environment (especially at night), as well as hanging out with characters not knowing if they'll even live to see the next day. I think that's the best factor that holds the first game up because the two sequels I find ramp almost everything up, and (entire DR1 spoilers)only having 3 proper murders in the first game where 2 are just night time hit & runs (one with a mind-numbingly obvious solution give away) feels like wasted potential. It's actually rare to find someone whose favourite isn't 2 or 3. The other thing I love is the sheer style of it. The executions, the comic strip storyboards, the way rooms assemble piece by piece when you enter them. It's like a glorious pantomime except with a lot of people dying.

And haha, Byakuya is such an essential piece of the cast, yet when I first played the game I hated him with every fiber of my being, and (entire DR1 spoilers again)to make matters worse, he never TRULY gets his comeuppance to be put in his place. It felt wrong to me at the time that he survived. Nowadays I have a begrudging respect because he's compelling and confident, although (chapter 2 spoilers)what he did to Chihiro is beyond vile. Another surprise to me is that when I first played, Yasuhiro felt like a waste of space but I recently watched someone do a blind stream of it and I just couldn't get enough of his moronic antics. laugh.gif

As for me personally with this thread, my own extremely Japanese antics have had me playing through Okami lately. A really beautiful looking game with a gameplay loop not too dissimilar to 3D Zelda games, but filled with lots of references to Japanese folk-lore. It's also very silly at times without really breaking the serious undertone of the adventure as a whole.

Also Tetris 99 on the Switch has me seriously addicted lately. I've always known I'm fairly above average at Tetris but way behind the pros in terms of APM and strategy, but I'm winning quite a lot!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Iz~
post Mar 4 2019, 01:18 PM
Post #3
felt kawaii, might delete buzzjack later idk
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 29,362
Member No.: 12,929
Joined: 3-February 11
 


Excellent, I just finished the main story of DR1. Now I just have to be careful about spoilers for DR2. I did get half spoiled on the identity of the mastermind, I was poking around and saw that 'Junko's body' was used in one case before swiftly exiting that page, which was enough detail that when it happened I knew that Junko was coming back somehow, but I say half spoiled as I was still wondering if there was a chance the mastermind's identity was actually Byakuya or someone else up until the final reveal. And spoiled on the apocalyptic scenario but I feel that'd have been fairly obvious to work out early on anyway. Sounds very exciting from what you posted about them *.* Oh and I have to agree on the style, so eye-catching and makes the whole murder game thing feel... not classy but at least sophisticated.

Haha it also took me a bit of time to warm up to Yasuhiro but he just sounds so dumb all the time it ends up being kinda endearing and a great foil to Byakuya/Kyoko, I mean SOMEONE has to be around to make them look even smarter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dircadirca
post Mar 4 2019, 02:44 PM
Post #4
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,313
Member No.: 19,614
Joined: 28-July 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


My theory is that they kept multiple stupid characters around since (DR1)it's the same 6 people in the last 3 trials and it would get tedious always objecting to the same person. I think the only time you ever contradict Kyoko is for the bad ending in Chapter 5, and Byakuya only rarely too. There's a welcome change in the trials for the 2nd game so not everything has to be advanced by someone saying something stupid, though still plenty of idiots among them tongue.gif

(Probably obvious but I'd avoid Googling anything about the games to avoid spoilers, as well as clear anything related from YouTube search history. The Dango community is pretty notoriously bad with spoilers)


This post has been edited by Dircadirca: Mar 4 2019, 02:46 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Iz~
post Mar 28 2019, 02:55 AM
Post #5
felt kawaii, might delete buzzjack later idk
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 29,362
Member No.: 12,929
Joined: 3-February 11
 


And... completed Danganronpa 2. That was fast biggrin.gif It's so addictive and I'm worried there's only one more because there's only limited class trials left. The shock of finding out someone you are invested in is capable of murder/suddenly gets killed is second to none, so I did very well at avoiding spoilers this time. And hopefully don't spoil anyone with this post.

I think it was even better than the first one if only because there are so many more characters I really enjoyed. DR1 had some great ones but DR2 had three 'instant' best girls in Ibuki, Chiaki and Peko (as in, as soon as I saw their designs/Ultimate Talent I was sold, can you even get any better than an Ultimate Musician/Gamer/Swordswoman?), and then Sonia, Mahiru and Akane grew on me very well. And the boys were pretty much just as good, Gundham (especially Gundham, I always find over-the-top, "Dark Overlord" chuuni guys hilarious, and also a bit tragic in an 'aww, he just wants friends' way) and Kazuichi I enjoyed from the beginning, and then most of the rest also got really good as the game went on. Which of course meant at nearly every trial/murder I was losing at least one character I really liked and that was gutting. The series is surprisingly similar to the Apprentice in that you want the real characters to survive the cast cullings so you see more of them. Great tropical island setting, and improvement on the trial games too, I especially enjoyed the Logic Dive, because even outside the game it focuses my own thought process as I'm going through it to naturally arrive at the answer at the same time as the game expects you to.

And man, the emotions it put me through. Like, the first trial I went through the whole spectrum of emotions towards one certain character, I disliked him at the start because he was so bland I was hoping he'd be the first victim, hated him more when it seemed like he was the murderer, went through the shock of him not being what he seemed, and at the end of the trial when he offers to be a willing victim I loved him for throwing such a massive spanner in the works. Also, HOPE. And "On The Meat Bone", I was so confused that that wasn't it. That was memorable. (Later trial spoilers)The other thing that stood out to me is that the fourth trial was really interesting for providing an enclosed space again and the fact that I really DID NOT want to believe that Gundham was the perpetrator. I blanked on what exactly the luxury room clue was hinting at and so tried pretty much everyone besides him, and I only actually believed it was him once the Four Dark Devas were shown as the option in the Panic Talk time. Heartbreaking execution too </3. Finally, some wrong theories of mine (entire spoilers for DR2)I had a theory for so long that Kazuichi was the Ultimate Despair of the game because of how sort of tangential he was to each murder case (possibly 'pretended' to not turn the lights on in case 1, lured Hajime to the diner for case 2, set up the monitor for case 3 etc) that I failed to see that it didn't make too much sense, his scary look that had been downplayed with a "nice" attitude and Hiyoko saying he was obviously going to die first as he kept surviving. I put him being around at the same time as Monokuma and most other things that disproved this, down to him being much more competent at machines than he'd led us to believe. Mechamaru showing up just made me more suspicious. I mean, I suppose I was TECHNICALLY right but not for the reasons I'd thought, but I guess the final bit made more sense, and the revelation that everyone was an Ultimate Despair really did blindside me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dircadirca
post Mar 28 2019, 08:16 AM
Post #6
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,313
Member No.: 19,614
Joined: 28-July 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


Haha, if it helps, the 3rd game is nearly as long as the other two put together, the class trials in particular get pretty long towards the end (the presentation is marvellous though, in ways that will become clear). The 3rd game is really divisive for a couple of reasons, but the sheer over the top spectacle of it is really great. Possibly also because the story is longer, I found myself really liking the characters the most in that one. Way more character development than usual too.

The funny thing with the 2nd game is that the instant I started it up all I could think was 'expy city', it seemed like so many were just re-treading roles from the last game, except a little quirkier or more overweight. I really liked Chiaki though with the trepidation that she couldn't be more obvious bait if they tried (and I wish they gave her a little less Mary Sue tendencies since her only flaw seems to be that she's sleepy). And I loved Gundham too for his chuuni absurdities even though it wasn't a trope I'd encountered much before hand (I didn't read Steins;Gate until a few months later tongue.gif). But having someone who in casual speech will say 'BURN IN THE FIRES OF PANDEMONIUM' but also takes care of cute hamsters and gets embarrassed when Sonya compliments him is a wonderful contrast. Also the thing I hinted in my previous post was about how you can advance trials with agreeing statements, so not everyone has to be dumb all the time. MEAT ON THE BONE is a massive meme in the fan community because no one seems to get it right at first, I had to look it up because I didn't get it either. There is slight defence in that if you interact with it at the party, the dialogue calls it by that very phrase, but it's kind of jarring that it's the first example of it, and most of the other ones are really easy.

In spoiler territory, I remember being confused at myself for being really sad that 'Byakuya' died, given that I still very much hated him fresh from playing the first game, but he was like the leader we all needed. And then Nagito goes insane and it seems like there's almost no normal people around. What they do with Nagito I really like though, as a gradual escalation that reaches its natural conclusion. Everything about Chapter 5 is excellent except that I was so in denial about it being Chiaki that I tried to click on several other people first. I went through all 5 stages of grief tongue.gif I also like the character development of Fuyuhiko, who goes from the least approachable person to the most level headed person around. An interesting fact is that he was originally supposed to be killed off in Chapter 3 instead of Hiyoko except they decided to keep him so Chapter 2's emotional heft wouldn't be squandered. He's a really necessary component in Chapter 6 because you can tell just how much Peko means to him and he's so emotional about every possible opportunity to get her back. By comparison the rest of the non-Hajime survivors are kind of air heads who can't really communicate the severity of the situation. The game provided my proudest moment in the series for deducing the culprit in chapter 4 almost immediately. Usually I miss the contextual clues or disregard their importance, but I knew the luxury rooms would be important, and as soon as it turned out Gundham heard the alarm clock I knew he'd have a lot of explaining to get out of that, which naturally wasn't going to come since the game didn't expect you to pick that up so soon. I also half-worked out the situation of the house structure. I kind of wonder if Chiaki's handbook is supposed to be a clue, because it's facing the same way both times you enter, but it's not clear if that's just lazy sprite work..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Iz~
post Mar 28 2019, 02:14 PM
Post #7
felt kawaii, might delete buzzjack later idk
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 29,362
Member No.: 12,929
Joined: 3-February 11
 


So I think that's enough to make a topic xx Executive power!

Uh YES at DR3 being longer. Makes the idea of it a lot less predictable as well as I have no idea how much longer.

QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Mar 28 2019, 08:16 AM) *
The funny thing with the 2nd game is that the instant I started it up all I could think was 'expy city', it seemed like so many were just re-treading roles from the last game, except a little quirkier or more overweight. I really liked Chiaki though with the trepidation that she couldn't be more obvious bait if they tried (and I wish they gave her a little less Mary Sue tendencies since her only flaw seems to be that she's sleepy). And I loved Gundham too for his chuuni absurdities even though it wasn't a trope I'd encountered much before hand (I didn't read Steins;Gate until a few months later tongue.gif). But having someone who in casual speech will say 'BURN IN THE FIRES OF PANDEMONIUM' but also takes care of cute hamsters and gets embarrassed when Sonya compliments him is a wonderful contrast. Also the thing I hinted in my previous post was about how you can advance trials with agreeing statements, so not everyone has to be dumb all the time. MEAT ON THE BONE is a massive meme in the fan community because no one seems to get it right at first, I had to look it up because I didn't get it either. There is slight defence in that if you interact with it at the party, the dialogue calls it by that very phrase, but it's kind of jarring that it's the first example of it, and most of the other ones are really easy.


I do get that, I thought Akane in particular seemed so obviously a nuHina that even though I loved Hina it took me a long while to warm to Akane. And on the expies, yes, I also thought that about Chiaki, similar Mary Sue as Kyoko but perhaps even moreso, but man, I just loved how quietly confident and secure in her own hobbies she was, it feels like quiet and confident is a fairly rare combination for female characters that I took great delight in seeing her have an important role. Ha, and of course I come into it with Steins;Gate as one of my favourite stories so anyone acting like Kyouma is delightful. Gundham's voice acting and lines were just top notch comedy, perfect character.

Loved the agreeing statements, yes, that was also a great improvement. Also characters suddenly popping up in the trial to start arguing with you rather than just standing there listening to you get everything right was much better.

QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Mar 28 2019, 08:16 AM) *
In spoiler territory, I remember being confused at myself for being really sad that 'Byakuya' died, given that I still very much hated him fresh from playing the first game, but he was like the leader we all needed. And then Nagito goes insane and it seems like there's almost no normal people around. What they do with Nagito I really like though, as a gradual escalation that reaches its natural conclusion. Everything about Chapter 5 is excellent except that I was so in denial about it being Chiaki that I tried to click on several other people first. I went through all 5 stages of grief tongue.gif I also like the character development of Fuyuhiko, who goes from the least approachable person to the most level headed person around. An interesting fact is that he was originally supposed to be killed off in Chapter 3 instead of Hiyoko except they decided to keep him so Chapter 2's emotional heft wouldn't be squandered. He's a really necessary component in Chapter 6 because you can tell just how much Peko means to him and he's so emotional about every possible opportunity to get her back. By comparison the rest of the non-Hajime survivors are kind of air heads who can't really communicate the severity of the situation. The game provided my proudest moment in the series for deducing the culprit in chapter 4 almost immediately. Usually I miss the contextual clues or disregard their importance, but I knew the luxury rooms would be important, and as soon as it turned out Gundham heard the alarm clock I knew he'd have a lot of explaining to get out of that, which naturally wasn't going to come since the game didn't expect you to pick that up so soon. I also half-worked out the situation of the house structure. I kind of wonder if Chiaki's handbook is supposed to be a clue, because it's facing the same way both times you enter, but it's not clear if that's just lazy sprite work..


Nagito was pretty masterful in the end, I enjoyed him most when he was alive though, particularly in Chapter 4, I was ready for there to be a suicide trial after that one wasn't and they lampshaded how the murder cases between DR1/DR2 shared similarities so I figured out most of his plan relatively easily, but I wasn't expecting what he did to unwittingly make a killer and I was very gutted when Chiaki turned out to be the correct killer, although I was still fairly fresh from losing Gundham so only a bit of that.Totally agree with you on Fuyuhiko, I couldn't quite believe how much he changed, I didn't know that about Chapter 3 and I can see why they were thinking about it because he was that one who is so often a suspect that he got a lot of attention. But definitely the right choice to keep him over Hiyoko, I really liked that callback in the last chapter that he would have seen if Peko had changed to prove they were in their original bodies. Best realised character of the survivors I agree, although Sonia comes fairly close.. I don't think I had anything immediately down like I did in the first game, I got completely blindsided on the luxury rooms thing because I split my session and forgot which boys were in which rooms and then wondered if Nagito had been out of his room and got very confused. Also that house structure, I envisioned it as some interlocking buliding for some reason but obviously that makes no sense.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dircadirca
post Mar 28 2019, 04:16 PM
Post #8
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,313
Member No.: 19,614
Joined: 28-July 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


Yeah I feel like Akane is a 2nd Aoi but without any down-to-earth charm (at times Aoi feels like one of the most normal people around, but Akane is too loud & over the top). The stuff with her and Nekomaru had potential but doesn't connect as strongly as Fuyuhiko & Peko. After Nekomaru dies she doesn't really develop as much as she could. With Chiaki I just wish they gave her more flaws so she wasn't so obviously likable. I guess it could be a product of her being an AI but it makes her a little less interesting. I think something I especially like in the 3rd game is that it doesn't feel like there is a Mary Sue. Even the more level-headed characters have blatant flaws either in their capabilities or their warped outlook, and some of the best character moments come out of those polarising world views clashing head on. Maybe now that I've written this it makes sense that Chiaki is supposed to be liked by the whole cast, otherwise her role in the story doesn't really work.

Also I quite like Hajime as a protagonist. Makoto often shows his hand as really dumb and so it doesn't really make sense that he has to solve all the trials, but Hajime is a bit more calm in his situation. They can both be a bit generic-this-could-be-you-anime-protagonist but he's a slight step in the right direction.

I feel obligated to mention that as per release order, between the 2nd & 3rd games is an anime which goes by Danganronpa 3 (which is partly why the 3rd game is always referred to as V3)...which is okay. It's got two halves, one which is like an origin story of the DR2 class (DR2 spoiler)becoming the Ultimate Dispair, and the other half has (DR1 spoiler)Makoto, Kyoko & Aoi in another killing game with a slightly different premise. Very skippable overall but V3 does make slight references to it at times. Because of the way it inter-twines these, people need to make guides (note: potential spoilers deep in the comments) to explain the watch order. The premise is a little squandered with a lot of dumb moments, but it does bring a proper conclusion to the arc of the first two games.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Iz~
post Mar 29 2019, 12:57 AM
Post #9
felt kawaii, might delete buzzjack later idk
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 29,362
Member No.: 12,929
Joined: 3-February 11
 


QUOTE(Dircadirca @ Mar 28 2019, 04:16 PM) *
I feel obligated to mention that as per release order, between the 2nd & 3rd games is an anime which goes by Danganronpa 3 (which is partly why the 3rd game is always referred to as V3)...which is okay. It's got two halves, one which is like an origin story of the DR2 class (DR2 spoiler)becoming the Ultimate Dispair, and the other half has (DR1 spoiler)Makoto, Kyoko & Aoi in another killing game with a slightly different premise. Very skippable overall but V3 does make slight references to it at times. Because of the way it inter-twines these, people need to make guides (note: potential spoilers deep in the comments) to explain the watch order. The premise is a little squandered with a lot of dumb moments, but it does bring a proper conclusion to the arc of the first two games.


Ah yes thank you, I was wondering where the anime was fitting in. Cool to know it's an original story, I tried watching the Danganronpa 1 anime but that one is obviously a straight port of the game, with basically no new animations or designs or plot changes so I didn't bother. I'd definitely be up for seeing that continuation before I get into V3.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dircadirca
post Mar 29 2019, 05:50 PM
Post #10
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,313
Member No.: 19,614
Joined: 28-July 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


Yeah the first anime season is basically a waste. Considerable step down from the VN too because everything's rushed so you don't get any real connection to the characters, and the mysteries don't really work either. The one good thing about it is that it spawned a great, though incomplete abridged series (actually the same person did a Higurashi Onikakushi abridged too lol). I kind of want to re-watch the Future Arc now because when I did watch it, I was having trouble with keeping up with all the characters names/roles/talents/*spoiler redacted*s and I might be able to enjoy it a bit more now. Even in the games it usually takes me a chapter or two to learn everyone's names. The 2nd game was particularly egregious with one non-stop debate in chapter 1 where all your bullets where '*person*'s testimony', and I couldn't remember who all of them were. That and in just that game, the character names were displayed vertically, which is obviously fine in Japanese, but I need to go out of my way to read it properly in English, and so the names didn't stick quickly.

This post has been edited by Dircadirca: Mar 29 2019, 05:50 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Iz~
post Wednesday, 05:09 AM
Post #11
felt kawaii, might delete buzzjack later idk
*******
Group: Admin.
Posts: 29,362
Member No.: 12,929
Joined: 3-February 11
 


when you complete Danganronpa V3's first trial and then a few days later hear what sounds exactly like the music played before the first murder outside a Chinese shopping mall.



had to close the game for a few days after that first trial - and having just completed the second trial last night while waiting for Eurovision to start, I might have to do the same again, as you said, Dirca, they certainly aren't short affairs.

Highlights among the students so far, pretty much everyone whose name starts with K, and Miu I guess. Kiyo especially but that kind of character, intelligent, mysterious and probably annoying-as-f*** if you aren't into overexplaining appeals to me. And Kokichi is such a great gaslighter, and he has great rivalry with K-1BO, and well, everyone else. Then Kaede's a really interesting protagonist and Kirumi a really dependable and clever character with a good air of mystery to her too. G'won the Ks. Yes I couldn't believe what happened in that first trial, and got stuck a little, but I suppose it was only a matter of time before Danganronpa were going to do the 'you're the culprit' thing, which is a shame as Kaede was a lot more interesting to play than Shuichi is at the moment. The second trial felt a bit over-the-top with the spectacle of it all just making it more likely that the culprit was found, and I navigated through that fairly easily as a result.. Anyway, I'm getting wise to their tricks. When I next take a dive I'm sure it'll find a way to catch me out somewhere. Or I hope.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dircadirca
post Wednesday, 11:40 AM
Post #12
BuzzJack Gold Member
*****
Group: Members
Posts: 3,313
Member No.: 19,614
Joined: 28-July 13
   No Gallery Pics
 


Yeah I absolutely was not prepared for just how long it was, it took close to a week and I was powering through, mainly because I was far too impatient and wanted to trawl through the subreddit without having to dodge spoilers.

I really like the character dynamics that prop up. There's a lot of clashing of ideals that leads to some worthwhile development, much more than the other games. Won't specify names for obvious reason, but it's interesting how a lot of the conflict is brought about within the group, rather than Monokuma throwing a spanner into the works (minus chapter 1). It does make for a cool twist when the MC & the mystery talent are killed off in chapter 1 and I think the rest of the cast is strong enough to work with it. I do wish that Ryoma & Kirumi had more time to develop. The latter stood out to me initially because she looks and acts exactly like 2B from NieR:Automata (with even the same English voice actress!) but doesn't really build on the template apart from having a very defiant and memorable execution scene. The second chapter's mystery is definitely way too complicated. The best justification I can give is that the main purpose of it was to obfuscate the timeline to give herself an alibi. If she made it simple and just drowned him and left, with no clear alibis, it puts a risk that everyone will just have to guess the killer and they might be right. Or worse, while she's killing him, everyone else just happens to have airtight alibis. Inevitably though there's so much meticulous handiwork in it that it could only be Kirumi. I do like that in the trial, she's actually accused early on before it's dismissed, I can't recall if they'd ever properly done this in any of the previous trials. It's a good trick to hide the murderer because otherwise it's always one of the two people who have been under the radar or something. There's another thing that kind of bothers me in that trial and the next one, but there's a clever subversion later on which almost makes me wonder if it's deliberate.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post


Reply to this topicStart new topic

2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:


 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st May 2019 - 05:24 AM