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BuzzJack Music Forum _ News and Politics _ Labour, and allegations of anti-semitism

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 29 2018, 06:40 AM

The Labour/anti-Semitism issue.

Is it just a storm-in-a-teacup generated by the Tory press, or might it become a significant negative factor in trying to get back into power?

Posted by: Queef of Peace Mar 29 2018, 07:05 AM

Storm in the Tory press and BBTory teacup.

The sane anti semitism report concluded there is MORE of it in the Tory party, yet the BBC fails to mention that. Surprise surprise?

The mural was of bankers, not Jewish people.

Corbyn has been the most prolific anti racist campaigner in parliament for years. The fact that the right wing press is calling even JEWISH people anti semitic is hilarious. They are conflating criticism of Israeli government policy with um racism. Left wing Jewish people are being told they are racist by the non-Jewish right!

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 29 2018, 07:07 AM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Mar 29 2018, 08:05 AM) *
Storm in the Tory press and BBTory teacup.

The sane anti semitism report concluded there is MORE of it in the Tory party, yet the BBC fails to mention that. Surprise surprise?

The mural was of bankers, not Jewish people.

Corbyn has been the most prolific anti racist campaigner in parliament for years. The fact that the right wing press is calling even JEWISH people anti semitic is hilarious. They are conflating criticism of Israeli government policy with um racism. Left wing Jewish people are being told they are racist by the non-Jewish right!


So you don't think it'll be a hindrance for the next election, then.

Posted by: danG Mar 29 2018, 07:20 AM

Well there is antisemitism in the Labour Party which is of course an issue that needs to be addressed. Of course the Tories will find any excuse to smear Corbyn but he really hasn't done much about the anti semitism issue.

Here is what the guardian says on the matter. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/26/jeremy-corbyn-accused-of-being-figurehead-for-antisemitism

Posted by: Queef of Peace Mar 29 2018, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 29 2018, 08:07 AM) *
So you don't think it'll be a hindrance for the next election, then.


No.

The more the BBTory et all smear, the more the public just ignore it. The Russia background made a lot more people see the BBC Tory propaganda channel for what it is. Funny how they all made headlines of a 2006 mural of BANKERS days out from the May elections when Labour is 7 points ahead. Surely that is just coincidence?? laugh.gif

Anti-Israeli government is not necessarily antisemitism. The Tories have a worse problem with it anyway according to the report. Where are the headlines about that?

They cannot bash Labour on policy, so they attack with smears.

It there IS some racism in the party, and I'm not talking being critical of right wing Israel, then Corbyn as an anti racist protester is the right person to deal with it.

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 29 2018, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(danG @ Mar 29 2018, 08:20 AM) *
Well there is antisemitism in the Labour Party which is of course an issue that needs to be addressed. Of course the Tories will find any excuse to smear Corbyn but he really hasn't done much about the anti semitism issue.

Here is what the guardian says on the matter. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/26/jeremy-corbyn-accused-of-being-figurehead-for-antisemitism


I give them credit for mentioning it - anti-Semitism is not something that *anyone* should be downplaying.

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 29 2018, 08:09 AM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Mar 29 2018, 08:34 AM) *
No.

The more the BBTory et all smear, the more the public just ignore it. The Russia background made a lot more people see the BBC Tory propaganda channel for what it is.


What planet are you posting from? tongue.gif

QUOTE
Anti-Israeli government is not necessarily antisemitism. The Tories have a worse problem with it anyway according to the report. Where are the headlines about that?

They cannot bash Labour on policy, so they attack with smears.

It there IS some racism in the party, and I'm not talking being critical of right wing Israel, then Corbyn as an anti racist protester is the right person to deal with it.


But the thing is, when someone acts 'holier than thou', and gets caught out, it's worse than if they'd said nothing at all - e.g. if you condemn someone for having an affair, then get caught with your own pants down, you then lose all credibility if you make further allegations of the same nature against your opponent.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Mar 29 2018, 08:22 AM

I think anyone with any sense in the world would look at that mural and say to themselves that it is offensively anti-Semetic, and any attempts to minimise this is incredibly wrong. And as if you needed any more proof, the artist who painted that mural gave his first interview since the story broke to...David Icke (Lizard-people conspiracy person and known anti-Semite), where he ranted about the Rothschilds.

The writer Jeremy Duns, has been very good on the issue of anti-Semitism within Labour for many years, and is definitely https://twitter.com/JeremyDuns at the moment about the issue. Around the time of Corbyn's election, he did a "test" where if he came across a British holocaust denier, he would see who they supported, and in almost every case, it was Jeremy Corbyn.

Posted by: blacksquare Mar 29 2018, 10:36 AM

I think the right are desperately trying to bring the party into disrepute in order to do damage in the local elections.

That is not to say there isn't an issue with antisemitism on the left. People struggle separating Zionism and Israel from Judaism etc. It's something Labour can approve on.

Posted by: Andrew. Mar 29 2018, 10:41 AM

I can't believe Labour supporters are saying the mural wasn't anti-Semitic...that's just ridiculous laugh.gif It's clear there's a massive problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party and even their own leader conveniently 'didn't see properly' an anti-seminic mural.

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 29 2018, 10:46 AM

QUOTE(blacksquare @ Mar 29 2018, 11:36 AM) *
I think the right are desperately trying to bring the party into disrepute in order to do damage in the local elections.


Not that they seeming need much help at the moment...

Posted by: Queef of Peace Mar 29 2018, 11:15 AM

QUOTE(Andrew. @ Mar 29 2018, 11:41 AM) *
I can't believe Labour supporters are saying the mural wasn't anti-Semitic...that's just ridiculous laugh.gif It's clear there's a massive problem with anti-semitism in the Labour Party and even their own leader conveniently 'didn't see properly' an anti-seminic mural.


et he anti semitism report said there is MORE of it in the Tort party lol x

Try again. Don't just listen to what the BBTory says.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Mar 29 2018, 11:41 AM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Mar 29 2018, 12:15 PM) *
et (sic) he (sic) anti semitism report said there is MORE of it in the Tort (sic) party lol x

Try again. Don't just listen to what the BBTory says.


Let's have a source for this no-doubt balanced and unbiased report that says this.

Posted by: Queef of Peace Mar 29 2018, 11:48 AM

I'll find it.

Those are CLEAAARLY typos. Put away your superiority complex. We all know how to use sic. We all went to uni. Jesus

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 29 2018, 01:40 PM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Mar 29 2018, 12:48 PM) *
I'll find it.

Those are CLEAAARLY typos. Put away your superiority complex. We all know how to use sic. We all went to uni. Jesus


I went to a college that later turned into a uni - does that count? smile.gif

Posted by: Popchartfreak Mar 29 2018, 02:20 PM

The mural is clearly classically anti Jew and if Corbyn doesn't know by now not to comment publicly on something you don't agree with....

Labour has been dodging this issue for 2 years just as Corbyn habitually dodges issues he finds difficult to condemn or support.

I can quite believe there is anti Semitic behaviour in other parties but if it's not being reported its hard to confirm and that in any case doesn't excuse in any way other parties regardless of whether Tories are the same or worse.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Mar 29 2018, 08:42 PM

..but just to balance it a bit in the interest of anti-racism:

"Leave.EU

Verified account

@LeaveEUOfficial
Follow Follow @LeaveEUOfficial
More
Is it any wonder that Labour can't be bothered to deal with the disgusting antisemitism in their party when they are so reliant on the votes of Britain's exploding Muslim population? It's a question of maths for these people, not justice!"

and the response:

"Board of Deputies of British Jews

Verified account

@BoardofDeputies
7h7 hours ago
More
Board of Deputies of British Jews Retweeted Leave.EU
Completely unacceptable from @LeaveEUOfficial - please delete and apologise now. Some of the best allies we have in the struggle against antisemitism are Muslims, @SadiqKhan, @TellMamaUK and more. This is not the way to challenge antisemitism."

So, yes, people still proving they "didn't" vote for Brexit for racist reasons (so f*** off racist Brexiters trying to politically capitalise on one form of racism by using another form of racism fearmongering for political reasons.)

Can I say f*** Off Racists? I think I can....and I think it's justified.

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 31 2018, 06:10 AM

It'll be interesting to see the next set of voting intention polls...

Posted by: Popchartfreak Mar 31 2018, 07:13 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 31 2018, 07:10 AM) *
It'll be interesting to see the next set of voting intention polls...


Judging by the shouty, annoying, anti-immigrant, EU-hating woman on Newsnight the other evening (Nottingham public Q&A on Brexit) Labour might even get a boost in some areas as she was pissed off at the Tories not just leaving and sticking 2 fingers up to the EU....

Posted by: vidcapper Mar 31 2018, 09:01 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Mar 31 2018, 08:13 AM) *
Judging by the shouty, annoying, anti-immigrant, EU-hating woman on Newsnight the other evening (Nottingham public Q&A on Brexit) Labour might even get a boost in some areas as she was pissed off at the Tories not just leaving and sticking 2 fingers up to the EU....


Perish the thought that Newsnight might be cherry-picking *that* sort of Leaver for their audience, rather than the vast majority of more rational ones... teresa.gif

Posted by: Popchartfreak Mar 31 2018, 09:11 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 31 2018, 10:01 AM) *
Perish the thought that Newsnight might be cherry-picking *that* sort of Leaver for their audience, rather than the vast majority of more rational ones... teresa.gif


the rest of the audience was rational, including the Leavers. Perish the thought that Brexiteers aren't ALL rational - given the campaign to leave was led by one who isn't.....TBC in EU thread if necessary as I've plenty of lovely new links to read....

Posted by: Brett-Butler Apr 2 2018, 01:27 PM

Labour have suspended a candidate in the upcoming local elections for https://twitter.com/Mendelpol/status/980510708742934528.

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 2 2018, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Apr 2 2018, 02:27 PM) *
Labour have suspended a candidate in the upcoming local elections for https://twitter.com/Mendelpol/status/980510708742934528.


Just in time - I think the deadline is Apr 5th for selecting candidates.

Posted by: Queef of Peace Apr 2 2018, 02:02 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 31 2018, 07:10 AM) *
It'll be interesting to see the next set of voting intention polls...


People are cheering his name at football stadiums across the country. These right wing smears are backfiring as people are turning on the BBTory and press and seeing right through thrn. Mwaaa

Posted by: Brett-Butler Apr 2 2018, 02:15 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Mar 29 2018, 12:41 PM) *
Let's have a source for this no-doubt balanced and unbiased report that says this.



QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Mar 29 2018, 12:48 PM) *
I'll find it.


Given that you've chosen to grace your presence on this thread, with what I imagine people would consider an invaluable contribution that definitely adds to the conversation, have you managed to provide your evidence for your claim?

Posted by: Suedehead2 Apr 2 2018, 02:40 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Apr 2 2018, 02:27 PM) *
Labour have suspended a candidate in the upcoming local elections for https://twitter.com/Mendelpol/status/980510708742934528.

This is the part of the whole affair that still puzzles me. He is accused of highlighting a report by the Red Cross proving that the Holocaust didn't happen. This makes no sense at all. The Red Cross publishing a report saying the Holocaust didn't happen seems about as likely as an FBI report saying JFK wasn't assassinated.

Posted by: Queef of Peace Apr 2 2018, 02:45 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Apr 2 2018, 03:15 PM) *
Given that you've chosen to grace your presence on this thread, with what I imagine people would consider an invaluable contribution that definitely adds to the conversation, have you managed to provide your evidence for your claim?


I actually have the link for it on the PC x

I'll pass it later.

Posted by: Queef of Peace Apr 2 2018, 02:49 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 2 2018, 03:40 PM) *
This is the part of the whole affair that still puzzles me. He is accused of highlighting a report by the Red Cross proving that the Holocaust didn't happen. This makes no sense at all. The Red Cross publishing a report saying the Holocaust didn't happen seems about as likely as an FBI report saying JFK wasn't assassinated.


Internet conspiracy theories. This is the new age of ignorance.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Apr 2 2018, 02:56 PM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Apr 2 2018, 03:49 PM) *
Internet conspiracy theories. This is the new age of ignorance.


You mean like the conspiracy theory that the BBC photoshopped a picture of Jeremy Corbyn's hat to make it look more Russian?

Posted by: Queef of Peace Apr 2 2018, 02:58 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Apr 2 2018, 03:56 PM) *
You mean like the conspiracy theory that the BBC photoshopped a picture of Jeremy Corbyn's hat to make it look more Russian?


They actually did? Experiment for yourself. They HAD to edit it for it appear as it did in the photo.

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 2 2018, 03:00 PM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Apr 2 2018, 03:02 PM) *
People are cheering his name at football stadiums across the country. These right wing smears are backfiring as people are turning on the BBTory and press and seeing right through thrn. Mwaaa


Ever heard of unbalanced samples? teresa.gif

Posted by: Brett-Butler Apr 2 2018, 03:07 PM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Apr 2 2018, 03:58 PM) *
They actually did? Experiment for yourself. They HAD to edit it for it appear as it did in the photo.


The fact that anyone felt the need to run an https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-did-the-bbc-edit-a-photo-of-jeremy-corbyn-to-make-him-look-close-to-russia over this issue just shows how bonkers a certain subsection of the Coybynistas happen to be.

Posted by: Queef of Peace Apr 2 2018, 03:25 PM

Wrong.

They edited that photo. They changed the shape and shading and contrast. Just shading would NOT change its shape.

If the BBC reporters didn't salivate at the sound of Corbyn and be so biased, MAAAYBE a pithy apology would cut it. Not anymore.

Posted by: Rooney Apr 2 2018, 04:01 PM

QUOTE(Queef of Peace @ Apr 2 2018, 03:02 PM) *
People are cheering his name at football stadiums across the country. These right wing smears are backfiring as people are turning on the BBTory and press and seeing right through thrn. Mwaaa


I would cheer his name if he was going to tax the top 5%, nationalise the railways, save the NHS, give the public sector a payrise, free tuition fees, free school meals. Sounds a great place! The reality is this is a complete fantasy. People sing his names in clubs too, mainly cos it's quite a catchy (and highly unoriginal chant). But it doesn't hide from the fact the leadership of the Labour party have lost touch with reality. The response to the anti-semitism row has been awful.

I was as surprised by any as Labour at last years election but it's at a point right again now where it's about to hit turmoil. Brexit is going to to split right in two very shortly unless Corbyn comes out and says what the parties view is.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 2 2018, 04:12 PM

Queefy, Corbyn's choice of hats is not proof of anything. Other than paranoia and an attempt to change the conversation from his:

a) lack of initial acceptance of British intelligence reports
b) automatically coming up with theories to apologise for Putin
c) avoid talking about his Brexit attitudes
d) totally ignore Leave campaign reports of corruption
e) avoidance of a problem with anti-semitism which has been more than authenticated inside Labour ranks from Labour supporters and which has been simmering since he got into power.

Newsnight, which is the subject of your inference, gives everyone a right to reply - which they did the following night and the point was made quite firmly - and delves into every topic with relative fairness. I get annoyed when they give airtime to nutters and liars, but they wouldnt be doing their job if they didnt give a right to respond. Corby could agree to appear on newsnight in a second - but he doesn't. Why not? Because they would ask him difficult questions he doesnt have answers for. So he chooses to let his supporters make all sorts of attempts to shift the issues onto trivia. If he has a problem with Newsnight he should go on it and say so. And then stay for long enough to be probed on important issues that affect us all. That is, after all, his job as Leader Of The Opposition. His job isn't to ignore problems till they go away or blow up in his face.

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 8 2018, 10:29 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/06/leaked-minutes-show-labour-at-odds-over-antisemitism-claims

Also : http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/is-anti-semitism-widespread-within-the-labour-party

Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 8 2018, 02:21 PM



I'm reminded of a previous party disunited against a common foe..

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 8 2018, 02:28 PM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 8 2018, 03:21 PM) *
I'm reminded of a previous party disunited against a common foe..


My favourite bit was the 'What have the Romans ever done for us' scene. smile.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Apr 8 2018, 03:47 PM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 8 2018, 03:28 PM) *
My favourite bit was the 'What have the Romans ever done for us' scene. smile.gif


Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 8 2018, 07:10 PM

says it all.... laugh.gif

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 9 2018, 05:44 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 8 2018, 08:10 PM) *
says it all.... laugh.gif


I just *knew* one of you would come up with that - the only question was which one of you it would be. laugh.gif

Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 9 2018, 08:50 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 9 2018, 06:44 AM) *
I just *knew* one of you would come up with that - the only question was which one of you it would be. laugh.gif



appreciate the set-up thanks, always worth repeating. laugh.gif

Posted by: Brett-Butler Apr 11 2018, 07:54 PM

Well, at least Jeremy Corbyn has gained one new fan in recent weeks. Former BNP hatemonger Nick Griffin has announced his support for Jeremy Corbyn due to his stance towards Syria & his refusal to condemn the https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2018/04/nick-griffin-declares-his-support-jeremy-corbyn.

Of course, I'm sure it's just a major coincidence that the ex-holocaust denier Griffin has pledged his support for Corbyn following weeks highlighting alleged anti-Semitism within the Labour Party. It's been over a day since Griffin's endorsement, and to the best of my knowledge Jeremy Corbyn is yet to disavow his endorsement. I'm sure it'll come any day now...

Posted by: Same Ol' Andrew Apr 11 2018, 08:01 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Apr 11 2018, 08:54 PM) *
Well, at least Jeremy Corbyn has gained one new fan in recent weeks. Former BNP hatemonger Nick Griffin has announced his support for Jeremy Corbyn due to his stance towards Syria & his refusal to condemn the https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2018/04/nick-griffin-declares-his-support-jeremy-corbyn.

Of course, I'm sure it's just a major coincidence that the ex-holocaust denier Griffin has pledged his support for Corbyn following weeks highlighting alleged anti-Semitism within the Labour Party. It's been over a day since Griffin's endorsement, and to the best of my knowledge Jeremy Corbyn is yet to disavow his endorsement. I'm sure it'll come any day now...

The refusal of the rabid Corbynites to condemn their beloved leader under any circumstances disgusts me.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Apr 11 2018, 09:33 PM

QUOTE(Same Ol @ Apr 11 2018, 09:01 PM) *
The refusal of the rabid Corbynites to condemn their beloved leader under any circumstances disgusts me.

They are, of course, largely the same Labour supporters as the ones who refuse to accept that Tony Blair did anything right at all.

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 12 2018, 06:04 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Apr 11 2018, 10:33 PM) *
They are, of course, largely the same Labour supporters as the ones who refuse to accept that Tony Blair did anything right at all.


Blair did many things wrong, but he realized, as Corbynites do not, that you have to appeal to more than just the hard-left to win elections. High-sounding principles mean nothing if you cannot get elected to put them into practice.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 12 2018, 07:04 AM

seems as though left-wing filmmaker Ken Loach wants to deselect any Labour MP who is a Corbynite.

End of democracy in the Labour Party, quite frankly. The party that tolerated Jezza's endless attempts to remove all of Labour's previous leaders since he got into Parliament.

The natural result to a mass deselection of Centrist Labour MP's would be to encourage a new centrist party with actual experience of government in it's candidates. Oddly enough I hear there is a new party being backed with money looking for a role to play...

Which would split the Labour vote and give the Tories even more carte blanche to ruin the UK.

This isn't idle talk BTW, I have a friend, a decent human being who has been active in Labour politics for years and is standing as a local councillor, who has bizarrely become infected with Momentumism and wants to deselect people he was campaigning for only years ago, failing to see the hypocrisy of this position when it comes to Corbyn and that it can only lead to disaster for the party and for the country.

Despair much.

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 12 2018, 07:12 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 12 2018, 08:04 AM) *
seems as though left-wing filmmaker Ken Loach wants to deselect any Labour MP who is a Corbynite.

End of democracy in the Labour Party, quite frankly. The party that tolerated Jezza's endless attempts to remove all of Labour's previous leaders since he got into Parliament.

The natural result to a mass deselection of Centrist Labour MP's would be to encourage a new centrist party with actual experience of government in it's candidates. Oddly enough I hear there is a new party being backed with money looking for a role to play...

Which would split the Labour vote and give the Tories even more carte blanche to ruin the UK.

This isn't idle talk BTW, I have a friend, a decent human being who has been active in Labour politics for years and is standing as a local councillor, who has bizarrely become infected with Momentumism and wants to deselect people he was campaigning for only years ago, failing to see the hypocrisy of this position when it comes to Corbyn and that it can only lead to disaster for the party and for the country.

Despair much.


Nice to see we don't disagree on *everything* then.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 12 2018, 11:59 AM

QUOTE(vidcapper @ Apr 12 2018, 08:12 AM) *
Nice to see we don't disagree on *everything* then.


I am nothing if not even-handed in my criticisms, with the exception of the Libdems who are largely invisible and bit players in events (but who arent as schizophrenic as the current 2 main parties in any case, at least they have a clear idea of what they believe and want, all 3 or 8 of them, or whatever the current total is, and which I tend to agree with).

Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 18 2018, 07:09 AM

Some good speeches from members of the Labour on anti-semitism in Parliament. Jeremy Corbyn should use this untapped literate and passionate resource within his own party. Mind you, that would mean actually attending and listening to them first...

Posted by: vidcapper Apr 18 2018, 07:26 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Apr 18 2018, 08:09 AM) *
Some good speeches from members of the Labour on anti-semitism in Parliament. Jeremy Corbyn should use this untapped literate and passionate resource within his own party. Mind you, that would mean actually attending and listening to them first...


It's certainly a problem that isn't going to go away - it's one that all parties need to root out & eliminate.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Apr 24 2018, 07:57 PM

The Jewish Leadership Council were not satisfied with the outcome of their meeting with Jeremy Corbyn. From their longer statement, here are the actions that they had wished Corbyn & Labour to take in dealing with anti-Semitism, that were rejected at the meeting -

QUOTE
In particular, they did not agree in the meeting with our proposals that there should be a fixed timetable to deal with antisemitism cases; that they should expedite the long—standing cases involving Ken Livingstone and Jackie Walker; that no MP should share a platform with somebody expelled or suspended for antisemitism; that they adopt the full International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism with all its examples and clauses; that there should be transparent oversight of their disciplinary process.


I'm sure everyone's looking forward to hearing why Corbyn does not consider these proposals viable.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Apr 24 2018, 08:54 PM

That definition of anti-semitism redefines a Semite as exclusively Jewish. Most dictionaries disagree,

The evocation of the Holocaust helps to explain some attitudes. Nobody with an active brain cell can dispute that the Holocaust was one of the most appalling episodes of 20th century history. Equally, there can be no dispute that Jews formed by far the largest group of victims. However, many people feel that successive Israeli governments have used the Holocaust to justify everything they do. Some defenders of Israel suggest that criticism of Israeli governments is somehow anti-semitic. It isn't, any more than criticism of May's government is anti-christian.

Returning to the Holocaust, it is not anti-semitic or downplaying the suffering of Jews to point out that other groups were also victims. Those groups included Communists, the disabled, homosexuals, gypsies and trade unionists.

Posted by: Steve201 Apr 24 2018, 11:35 PM

The media are loving this aren't they! The story goes into a 4th week even moving back ahead of the Whindrush scandal!

Posted by: Popchartfreak Apr 29 2018, 11:43 AM

Corbyn can make this whole ongoing issue go away.

"Anyone in the labour party found to be spreading antisemitism will be thrown out allowing them to be free to join other parties more aligned with bigotry."

That will also shut up the excusing of this behaviour by blaming anti-corbyn mp's - they would no longer have a complaint if that is the reason.

There is no reason this should not be policy. Unless there is substance to the claims....

Being against israeli politics is in no way incompatible with anti semitism.

Over to you Jezza?

Posted by: Brett-Butler May 21 2018, 05:11 PM

Ken Livingstone has left the Labour Party following his suspension for alleged anti-Semitic comments.

Prediction - he'll be back in Labour within a year.

Posted by: Popchartfreak May 21 2018, 07:22 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ May 21 2018, 06:11 PM) *
Ken Livingstone has left the Labour Party following his suspension for alleged anti-Semitic comments.

Prediction - he'll be back in Labour within a year.


Prediction: if Labour has him back then it will be a great way of signalling that they don't take it seriously. He could always stand for Mayor of London as in Independent candidate again, though, and get back in that way 4 years later?

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jun 3 2018, 12:34 PM

The Corbynites are going absolutely bananas on Twitter about an hilarious sketch featuring Jeremy on the Tracey Ullman Show on Friday, which lampoons Labour's anti-antisemitism problem, alongside some of the other people whose company he keeps. Naturally, some of them have started complaining of BBC's anti-Corbyn bias (ignoring the fact that the same show was just as scathing about other political figures, Theresa May included), with some of them even claiming the sketch was written by David Baddiel (which it wasn't an accusation that one could claim is a wee bit antisemitic itself). Anyway, the offending sketch is below, and as the Corbynites don't want you to watch it, I would suggest definitely not watching it.


Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 3 2018, 08:13 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jun 3 2018, 01:34 PM) *
The Corbynites are going absolutely bananas on Twitter about an hilarious sketch featuring Jeremy on the Tracey Ullman Show on Friday, which lampoons Labour's anti-antisemitism problem, alongside some of the other people whose company he keeps. Naturally, some of them have started complaining of BBC's anti-Corbyn bias (ignoring the fact that the same show was just as scathing about other political figures, Theresa May included), with some of them even claiming the sketch was written by David Baddiel (which it wasn't an accusation that one could claim is a wee bit antisemitic itself). Anyway, the offending sketch is below, and as the Corbynites don't want you to watch it, I would suggest definitely not watching it.



It's funny cos it's true!

If Corbynites can't take a joke using material that is totally accurate then they are in the wrong business quite frankly. If it contained untruths then the complaints would be justified...

Humour is meant to ridicule the hypocrites in power (among other things) by showing them up for what they are. That they moan about an almost 60-year-old comedian who used to be a pop star and gave us The Simpsons shows how the concept of humour is alien to them. Oy vey!

Mazel Tov Corbynites....

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jul 17 2018, 07:43 PM

Over 60 Jewish rabbis have written an open letter to The Guardian stating that Labour's definition of anti-semitism does not go far enough, and have claimed that it https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/16/labour-party-must-listen-to-the-jewish-community-on-defining-antisemitism. The letter is unprecedented, especially as it sees ultra-orthodox rabbis sign alongside those of Reformed & Liberal Judaism.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jul 29 2018, 05:46 PM

Since Labour have introduced new, stringent rules against anti-Semitism in the party, it's great to see the party taking firm action on the matter. Ian Austin, MP for Dudley North, is under investigation for https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44997634 to have made those comments.

Whoops, I misread that news article. I'll start again.

Ian Austin, MP for Dudley North, is under investigation for CRITICIZING anti-Semitism just hours after he is alleged to have made those comments. And given that he had Jewish family members who were killed in the Holocaust, he's someone you really should be listening to on the subject.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 29 2018, 06:51 PM

so let me get this straight - I, as a local government employee, can be found guilty of making an anti-semitic statement in some examples clearly stated to be anti-semitic, but as a member of UNISON I won't be found guilty of making those same statements because it supports the Labour Party which doesn't feel the need to add them into the official definitive statement of anti-semitism that Local Government has. As a member of UNISON for decades I wont be happy to support an organisation that accepts one definition for all the people it represents as part of their daily job, and another for a political party it financially supports using member donations.


For Jezza, I would imagine that it's worth standing back and looking at oneself and ones own hypocrisy when it comes to human rights, for example supporting regimes that jail gays for being gay, or supporting armed-struggles, and then perhaps revisit recent decisions that have been grudgingly accepted and limited, with feeble excuses that it's covered "elsewhere". Saying it twice, just to be absolutely crystal-clear, is not a problem. Leaving it hazy and fudged is going to lead to it being a problem.

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Jul 29 2018, 06:59 PM

Labour have handled this spectacularly badly. They could not have have got this more wrong if they tried. (not unlike their Brexit policy)

They need to scrap this shit and start again. Consult and actually listen to Jewish members of the party, prominent activists and community leaders from across the UK's Jewish communities and get a policy that actually takes onboard what these people have to say. I've seen a number of jewish labour members or activists talking about how they inputted into a consultation but were completely ignored. It's like asking BAME people how they feel about racism and then only listening to white people

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 29 2018, 07:11 PM

QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jul 29 2018, 07:59 PM) *
Labour have handled this spectacularly badly. They could not have have got this more wrong if they tried. (not unlike their Brexit policy)

They need to scrap this shit and start again. Consult and actually listen to Jewish members of the party, prominent activists and community leaders from across the UK's Jewish communities and get a policy that actually takes onboard what these people have to say. I've seen a number of jewish labour members or activists talking about how they inputted into a consultation but were completely ignored. It's like asking BAME people how they feel about racism and then only listening to white people


spot on.

Posted by: vidcapper Jul 30 2018, 05:36 AM

QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jul 29 2018, 08:11 PM) *
spot on.


Seconded.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Aug 3 2018, 04:43 PM

Jeremy Corbyn has now received a show of support from...https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/former-kkk-wizard-praised-corbyn-victory-rztzv263g. Let the cognitive dissonance begin.

Posted by: Bilbo Ballbaggin Aug 3 2018, 05:02 PM

Oh come on.

This is clearly a targeted attack, slinging mud. An anti racist campaigner is not an anti semite. The Tory Boys meeting with an actual Neo Nazi however!!!!

Let's talk about that BBC. Yes BBC? No BBC? Yes BBC? No? Yes? No?

Posted by: 5 Silas Frøkner Aug 3 2018, 05:43 PM

Yes there are some serious bias issues at the BBC but let’s not use that to brush off the KKK supportin Corbyn. Both our major parties have serious issues with racism and anti-semitism. Both should do a root and branch review and remove the offenders immediately. Of course in the Tories case they’d lose about 50% of their elected officials and up to 100% in certain parts of the country (looking at you with serious judgement NE Scotland)

Posted by: Popchartfreak Aug 3 2018, 06:18 PM

QUOTE(Bilbo Ballbaggin @ Aug 3 2018, 06:02 PM) *
Oh come on.

This is clearly a targeted attack, slinging mud. An anti racist campaigner is not an anti semite. The Tory Boys meeting with an actual Neo Nazi however!!!!

Let's talk about that BBC. Yes BBC? No BBC? Yes BBC? No? Yes? No?


I am coming more round to your viewpoint that the BBC are making some terrible news editing decisions - however, that doesn't mean that Corbyn isn't also making some terrible decisions, nor that other parties are any better, nor that that excuses any of them.

2 wrongs don't make a right. Corbyn is not the Messiah, he's a flawed, hypocritical, human being who has no real ideas on the major issue of our times and how it will practically affect all of his desired policies (many of which most of us would support) even if he somehow got elected into power. That's why he says nothing 2 years after he insisted we should immediately invoke Article 50 before even the shocked Brexiters did......

Posted by: Iz Aug 3 2018, 07:29 PM

Even if that happened, as it did in 2015 according to what I can see of the story, clearly things changed, because https://twitter.com/drdavidduke/status/872709811149975552 himself seems to entirely contradict that.

It just seems like the Times is fishing for a story and printing out-of-date and uncorroborated news, I don't always buy that the media has it in for Corbyn but this looks like they are trying very hard to make something stick against him.

Posted by: LexC Aug 3 2018, 07:36 PM

Well frankly, August is "silly season" in the news for a reason!

Posted by: Brett-Butler Aug 3 2018, 07:43 PM

Jeremy Corbyn has written an editorial to https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/03/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-labour-party, saying that he will root antisemitism out of the party. It's already received some criticism from some quarters, as it appears that a lot of it was copied and pasted from an article he wrote back in April for a https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/jeremy-corbyn-what-i-m-doing-to-banish-antisemitism-from-the-labour-party-a3821961.html.

Posted by: Bilbo Ballbaggin Aug 3 2018, 08:30 PM

Well, when the media is copy and pasting this ridiculous fake news vs him, he can do the same.

Posted by: vidcapper Aug 4 2018, 05:45 AM

QUOTE(Bilbo Ballbaggin @ Aug 3 2018, 09:30 PM) *
Well, when the media is copy and pasting this ridiculous fake news vs him, he can do the same.


It's not so much about him, but of members of his party.

The press are searching for anything they can fit into the pattern they are trying to prove - just as also happens to UKIP iro immigration/racism.

It's a standard press tactic - there are always a few bad apples in any political party, so the press concentrates on them, trying to exaggerate an issue just to sell more copies.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Aug 4 2018, 08:48 AM

oh the story is clearly bullshit and has nothing to do with Corbyn.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Aug 4 2018, 09:26 AM

back on topic. What does Harry Potter think?

"J.K. Rowling

If you’ve spent any time at all in left wing politics, you’ve met at least one ‘socialist’ who’d be pathetically easy for a fascist to flip. Here’s a Corbyn fan happily contemplating British Jews fleeing their own country out of fear of a Corbyn government. Just f***ing saying."

Posted by: Popchartfreak Aug 6 2018, 07:31 PM

another day another missed opportunity to stop the ongoing saga. Even Boris Johnson, a gaping Tory own goal, can't get Corbyn off his complacent allotment...

"Jeremy Duns

A single tweet from Corbyn against #resignwatson last night would have stopped it. Something like 'Tom is a brilliant deputy leader and I take his comments very seriously - please don't attack our hard-working comrade. We will work together on this.' Instead: nothing."

The asylum is very much being run by the inmates in the United Kingdom....

Posted by: Popchartfreak Aug 17 2018, 07:45 AM

to be fair it's not just Labour, Twitter also seems to have problems defining what is and isn't anti-semitism:

"Jeet Heer

Jeet Heer Retweeted The Jewish Worker
Twitter suspended this account for post an anti-Nazi image created in the Warsaw Ghetto. (Later, obviously, unsuspended). Yet this have a hard time suspending actual Nazis. Weird.Jeet Heer added,

The Jewish Worker

@JewishWorker
Cover of the Yiddish socialist youth newspaper Yungt Shtimme (Voice of the Youth), published in the Warsaw Ghetto, c. 1940. The lower text reads "Fascism must be crushed." "

Posted by: Suedehead2 Sep 16 2018, 03:56 PM

And we have another episode in the continuing saga of "UK politics just keeps getting weirder". Stephen Pollard, a journalist for the Jewish Chronicle, has tweeted today to claim that Labour's frequent attacks on the banks for the part they played in the financial downturn is another sign of anti-semitism. This really is getting extremely silly.

Posted by: Mariner's Crotch Sep 23 2018, 09:47 AM

We need to change this biased, BBC style tagline, when Tories are more anti semetic anyway, to something less biased, such assss


LABOUR SUPPORTS A NEW REFERENDUM!

Posted by: Brett-Butler Sep 23 2018, 10:01 AM

QUOTE(Mariner @ Sep 23 2018, 10:47 AM) *
We need to change this biased, BBC style tagline, when Tories are more anti semetic anyway [citation needed], to something less biased, such assss
LABOUR SUPPORTS A NEW REFERENDUM!


There is a general topic to discuss anything Labour related, "The Labour Foot-Shoot Thread", this topic is exclusively to discuss the rampant Antisemitism with the Labour Party. And no, I will not by changing the title of THAT thread, as it is in keeping with the similarly pithy titles we give to the general discussion of both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats.

Posted by: Mariner's Crotch Sep 23 2018, 10:04 AM

Oh I thought this was that thread

Then we need a Tory anti semitism thread too!

Posted by: Brett-Butler Feb 11 2019, 08:09 PM

It's been revealed that officially, there has been https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47203397 in 10 months, leading to 96 suspensions and 12 expulsions.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 12 2019, 06:23 AM

QUOTE(Mariner @ Sep 23 2018, 10:04 AM) *
Oh I thought this was that thread

Then we need a Tory anti semitism thread too!


But Labour's is bigger news, as they have previously acted 'holier than thou' where Tory anti-semitism was concerned.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Feb 26 2019, 08:47 PM

Anti-racism organisation Hope Not Hate have called for a Labour MP to be kicked out of the party, https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anti-racism-charity-demands-jeremy-corbyn-kicks-chris-williamson-out-of-labour_uk_5c755a12e4b0bf166203c407?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL2dWeFl1SkxRVGE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAH7hTDjl7QvQJMqBzaZ9a5zV-66_QvhNO4x-4m0HoiIXINdhBfE7YfA67BTolaJwuQO0dJr8Cnn6XPVI_e4m7CyebtZIWgdnbQYH-lCXhhUh48fPCPY4O57ybD0z-1MzYE2T6ZBJFzjPzoe96Pg3WPTygl6mL7FsKBCPQEs6TSOg. I'm guessing that this is unprecedented in modern times, as far as the Labour Party is concerned.

Posted by: vidcapper Feb 27 2019, 03:25 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Feb 26 2019, 08:47 PM) *
Anti-racism organisation Hope Not Hate have called for a Labour MP to be kicked out of the party, https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anti-racism-charity-demands-jeremy-corbyn-kicks-chris-williamson-out-of-labour_uk_5c755a12e4b0bf166203c407?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL2dWeFl1SkxRVGE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAH7hTDjl7QvQJMqBzaZ9a5zV-66_QvhNO4x-4m0HoiIXINdhBfE7YfA67BTolaJwuQO0dJr8Cnn6XPVI_e4m7CyebtZIWgdnbQYH-lCXhhUh48fPCPY4O57ybD0z-1MzYE2T6ZBJFzjPzoe96Pg3WPTygl6mL7FsKBCPQEs6TSOg. I'm guessing that this is unprecedented in modern times, as far as the Labour Party is concerned.


Labour/liberals created PC as a weapon to target reactionary politics, but like most weapons, it can be turned against those who wield them... whistle.gif

Posted by: Brett-Butler Feb 27 2019, 07:14 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Feb 26 2019, 09:47 PM) *
Anti-racism organisation Hope Not Hate have called for a Labour MP to be kicked out of the party, https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anti-racism-charity-demands-jeremy-corbyn-kicks-chris-williamson-out-of-labour_uk_5c755a12e4b0bf166203c407?ncid=other_twitter_cooo9wqtham&utm_campaign=share_twitter&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvL2dWeFl1SkxRVGE&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAH7hTDjl7QvQJMqBzaZ9a5zV-66_QvhNO4x-4m0HoiIXINdhBfE7YfA67BTolaJwuQO0dJr8Cnn6XPVI_e4m7CyebtZIWgdnbQYH-lCXhhUh48fPCPY4O57ybD0z-1MzYE2T6ZBJFzjPzoe96Pg3WPTygl6mL7FsKBCPQEs6TSOg. I'm guessing that this is unprecedented in modern times, as far as the Labour Party is concerned.


And Chris Williamson has now been suspended by the Labour Party. And there was much rejoicing in Derby North.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jun 26 2019, 06:24 PM

Lord Voldemort lookalike Chris Williamson has been let back into Labour following his suspension for anti-Semitic remarks. This will likely go down well.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 29 2019, 08:20 AM

....and on that point, let's put blame where it lies:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/28/labour-corbyn-williamson-antisemitism

PS there was a deadline where the local party would have had to pick someone less-anti-semitic which conveniently passed by the decision to bring him back from the dead, like some left-wing Count Dracula who had lost the letter "o" from his PC keyboard.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Jun 29 2019, 09:36 PM

And so the utter hypocrisy of the press continues. Somebody tells the Guardian that he reported a possible case of domestic abuse involving Boris Johnson and the press goes ballistic, suggesting that this member of the public was guilty of treachery. OTOH, a senior civil servant (who is supposed to be strictly neutral) goes running to the Telegraph with a suggestion that Jeremy Corbyn is not healthy enough to be PM and they splash the story over the front page. Not a single Tory MP has accused the civil servant of being in breach of his or her terms of employment.

If Corbyn does ever become PM, how is he supposed to trust his senior civil servants after stories like this?

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jun 30 2019, 08:50 AM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jun 29 2019, 10:36 PM) *
And so the utter hypocrisy of the press continues. Somebody tells the Guardian that he reported a possible case of domestic abuse involving Boris Johnson and the press goes ballistic, suggesting that this member of the public was guilty of treachery. OTOH, a senior civil servant (who is supposed to be strictly neutral) goes running to the Telegraph with a suggestion that Jeremy Corbyn is not healthy enough to be PM and they splash the story over the front page. Not a single Tory MP has accused the civil servant of being in breach of his or her terms of employment.

If Corbyn does ever become PM, how is he supposed to trust his senior civil servants after stories like this?


Pretty sure I'd be sacked in a flash if I made unsubstantiated claims about a local Councillor in the local press.....!

The best way Corbyn could deal with this is to give an interview demanding the person be dismissed. And then brought back again 3 months later. And then dismissed again by a panel of 3 people who thought that was what he wanted. And then say nothing. And then deal with criticisms of the situation by ignoring them, giving no clear indication what he actually wants. I'm sure that's what he would want! laugh.gif

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jul 7 2019, 01:25 PM

As anyone who has read Private Eye knows, the moment that you employ Carter-Ruck, you're in big trouble. Ahead of a BBC Panorama documentary due to air on Wednesday which will examine antisemitism within the Labour Party, https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/07/labour-in-fresh-antisemitism-row-over-use-of-ndas-against-staff-whistleblowers warning them of legal action if the contribute to the documentary.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 7 2019, 06:05 PM

Speaking as a local gov employee, as i often do, I can state with 100% certainty that Non-Disclosure Agreements are only ever forced on employees as they leave to shut them up about information which is actually true. It's a fact, a 100% certain fact that the people paying them off don't want exposed and where the threat of legal action alone may not get them what they want (which is silence). You don't pay people off for telling lies that they can be prosecuted for, you pay them off to stop them telling the truth.

Got a financial deal that politicians know is utter shite within 3 months of signing the contract because they ignored the advice of experts who are paid to make sure contracts are not dodgy? Sack them and pay them off so they can't rat on you for being thick and useless. This happened in our former Council. Don;t want to expose how much money you didn't save by calling in bankrupt firms against advice? Just claim "commercial confidentiality" and hey presto no comeback. This also happened.

So, why on earth would the Labour Party need to hire lawyers to prevent people from speaking true facts. Not by threatening them with slander or libel, but by threatening them with breaking something they were no doubt forced to sign. Here stand the shining lights of open-ness and ensuring politicians are answerable for their behaviour.....

Posted by: Doctor Blind Jul 8 2019, 03:52 PM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Jul 7 2019, 02:25 PM) *
As anyone who has read Private Eye knows, the moment that you employ Carter-Ruck, you're in big trouble. Ahead of a BBC Panorama documentary due to air on Wednesday which will examine antisemitism within the Labour Party, https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/07/labour-in-fresh-antisemitism-row-over-use-of-ndas-against-staff-whistleblowers warning them of legal action if the contribute to the documentary.


Ah, good old Carter-R(F)uck!

It is really quite sad what has become of the Labour Party lately, under the leadership of Corbyn. : (

Posted by: Brett-Butler Jul 10 2019, 06:03 PM

Panorama 9pm this evening on BBC1. Will be interesting to see what fallout there will be from it. Prediction - very little, perhaps a percentage point in the next Opinion Poll, but not much else.

Posted by: Popchartfreak Jul 11 2019, 08:14 AM

immediate fall-out, moderates are appalled, the Lefties say the former members are just whinging moaners and that it's perfectly fine for a small group of activists to self-moderate, nothing to see here. They've also gone full-on BBC-bias mode (they can easily take all points raised and explain why, rather than make blanket statements, it's not difficult to be specific with factual examples, I do it all the time as part of my job when faced with legal reps for other parties trying to make non-facts appear to be facts regarding land ownership issues), and hilariously slag off the main journalist - who Corbyn praised in Parliament in 2002 for his previous work. Hah!

Let's go back 5 years and compare.

Jewish leader (who brought in party changes for better membership democracy, followed by an invasion of new members and long-gone Lefties who have been involved in other parties, which ironically did anything but lead to open-ness and democracy)
Few complaints of bullying and racism, and those that did crop up were dealt with.
Harassing of fellow Labour Party MP's, even far-left MP's, did not happen.
The party was clearly in favour of Remaining in the EU, and they fought for that position.
Still regarded as a viable alternative future election-winning force.

Hmmm.....


Posted by: Doctor Sleep Nov 25 2019, 10:22 PM

As posted in the main Labour thread- quite a remarkable intervention from the Chief Rabbi criticising the Labour Party and its handling of recent anti-Semitism within the party.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068

Posted by: blacksquare Apr 11 2020, 11:33 PM




Sigh.

Posted by: fl00zy* Apr 12 2020, 12:01 AM

what's that? everything that we said about this issue being sensationalised and pounced on by people politically opposed to Corbyn was....actually not made up? god fvkin forbid

Posted by: Helen ✂️ Apr 12 2020, 06:53 PM

"This report thoroughly disproves any suggestion that antisemitism is not a problem in the Party, or that it is all a “smear” or a “witch-hunt”. The report’s findings prove the
scale of the problem, and could help end the denialism amongst parts of the Party membership which has further hurt Jewish members and the Jewish community. "

- Page 11.

Posted by: Linda 🙋‍♀ Apr 13 2020, 08:26 AM

So essentially from what I am seeing, the Labour right moved to undermine Corbyn, stopped him effectively tackling antisemitism, ruining the reputation of the party in the hopes that he would go quicker, damning/bullying Labour's high profile BAME MPs in the process as they were too left-wing, and now it's not being sent to EHRC.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/12/hostility-to-corbyn-curbed-labour-efforts-to-tackle-antisemitism-says-leaked-report

QUOTE
The new internal report, seen by the Guardian, said it had found no evidence of antisemitism complaints being treated differently to other forms of complaint, or of current or former staff being “motivated by antisemitic intent”.

But the 860-page document said it uncovered many failings in the process for tackling antisemitism complaints before Jennie Formby, the current general secretary, took over in 2018.

The report said there was an “abundant evidence of a hyper-factional atmosphere prevailing in party HQ in this period, which appears to have affected the expeditious and resolute handling of disciplinary complaints”.


Factionalism, not even once.

There's a hope that it's all historical now, with a general secretary who took over in 2018 after this period of hyper-factionalism and resistance to Corbyn, and of course the new leader. It'll be a test of Starmer's leadership for sure with how he responds to this, party unity is imperative and that's kind of what his leadership pitch was all about.

Posted by: Harve Apr 13 2020, 08:58 AM

That you're devastated when the party does better than expected is an outrage. Like why would you continue to work for Labour if you're wishing the party to fail under a certain leadership.

I too hope that this is in the past and that there aren't too many who think the same about Keir Starmer.

And when you consider Andy Burnham and Sadiq Khan to be too left wing...are you sure you've properly considered what you actually want.

Posted by: Steve201 Apr 13 2020, 01:27 PM

Why would you continue to work for labour? Because they are part of an establishment which wants to stop socialism, they aren't labour they are liberals with a belief in the status quo as it favours their class.

Posted by: Linda 🙋‍♀ Apr 13 2020, 04:37 PM

Well, they are the only significant political operation that has an inclination to work towards socialism/social democracy currently. There's just a certain subset of Labour staffers who've been working against that cause.

I would hope the response to this is that any of those named in the leaks who are still working for the Party in any capacity are expelled, even for the Labour moderates there's an easy case to do so.

The way they (and everyone else) treated Diane Abbott in particular is disgusting, and the more I read about it the worse it gets. Like delaying the expelling of Ken Livingstone to cause embarassment for the leadership, laughing at and talking about whether to leak Abbott crying in the toilets, openly insulting Young Labour members with health problems...

Posted by: Steve201 Apr 13 2020, 11:34 PM

They aren't labour they are establishment goons infiltrating the party.

Winds me up when the likes of Luke Akehurst don't bat an eyelid at this when he was falling over himself to criticise JC for the past 5 years, sickening!

Posted by: Doctor Blind Apr 18 2020, 07:55 PM

The revelations aren't really that shocking, just disappointing really. I've long since given up with actually joining a political party though (despite always voting and having a keen interest), they all seem to me to be incredibly toxic environments.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 29 2020, 10:12 AM

The Equality & Human Rights Commission have officially confirmed that the Labour Party was "responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination" in relation to anti-Semitism and broke equality laws, the first political party to fall foul of this since the British National Party.

Labour has been given 6 weeks to publish its action plan, although it has taken steps in the first few months. Regardless, heads are going to roll.

Posted by: Rooney Oct 29 2020, 10:49 AM

QUOTE(Brett-Butler @ Oct 29 2020, 10:12 AM) *
The Equality & Human Rights Commission have officially confirmed that the Labour Party was "responsible for unlawful acts of harassment and discrimination" in relation to anti-Semitism and broke equality laws, the first political party to fall foul of this since the British National Party.

Labour has been given 6 weeks to publish its action plan, although it has taken steps in the first few months. Regardless, heads are going to roll.


No surprise, the old chief of staff for Corbyn was on the defensive earlier this week and Corbyn and his cronies are out in full force defending themselves again today. I'm not saying Corbyn is an anti-semite as he isn't from what I've seen, but it's you're accountable as party leader. I do wonder if Labour might expel some party members now. Does seem to be the only way out.

Posted by: Brett-Butler Oct 29 2020, 10:53 AM

Yes, I do see that the whattaboutery has started on Twitter. As I said, I do feel a few heads will roll over the next few weeks. Not Corbyn, and I don't think any MPs either (the only one who I think would was already kicked out last year), but a few people who were leading figures from 2015-2019 could be shown the door and end up back in the SWP.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 29 2020, 01:14 PM

Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Labour Party pending investigation.

Posted by: Moriz Oculiz Oct 29 2020, 01:26 PM

The report does seem to limit most of its naming to only two individuals for harassment (Livingstone and Bromley), along with 18 less notable harassment indications.

My takeaway is the leadership responsible for this, yes, they attempted to implement a number of processes for reporting complaints and generally improved over 2017-2019, but not to the no tolerance level, and there seems to be some unfortunate interference in a few cases which is disappointing. Disappointing that they did not address the complaints as well as they could have, to their detriment + the country's detriment.

But suspending Corbyn for this, I'm not certain on the political ramifications of this, and apparently that is for his statement made today... which I don't see much wrong with. It quotes the figures from the reports and is fairly accurate about how the situation has developed in the public sphere.

Posted by: Botchia Oct 29 2020, 01:26 PM

It's quite something to see anyone go from being the leader of a major political party to having the whip withdrawn and being suspended from the party within 7 months!

Posted by: Grim Bréaper Oct 29 2020, 01:40 PM

Well that's a bit of a yikes ~

Ngl I did cringe pretty hard at Corbyn coming right out with 'the scale was exaggerated', now was not the time to make that statement, even if he's right. If his suspension was on the basis of that statement I think that's fair and probably necessary. Sad that it has come to this though.

Posted by: Moriz Oculiz Oct 29 2020, 01:49 PM

QUOTE(Grim Bréaper @ Oct 29 2020, 01:40 PM) *
Well that's a bit of a yikes ~

Ngl I did cringe pretty hard at Corbyn coming right out with 'the scale was exaggerated', now was not the time to make that statement, even if he's right. If his suspension was on the basis of that statement I think that's fair and probably necessary. Sad that it has come to this though.


One thing I won't give Corbyn is that he wasn't great on making himself look good to the public, even though he's probably a far better person than the majority of MPs.

I reckon the suspension was planned for a while. Pros: it makes Starmer look decisive and uncompromising on this issue (if he's smart, he'll turn his attention to attacking the Conservatives whenever they next slip up a racism of any description, because Labour's 'house is in order'). Cons: it completes the purge of Labour MPs with left-leaning views from nearly any position of power in the Labour party. Well, it might be a con. Depends how many fervent Corbyn supporters there actually are and how vocal they can be.

Posted by: Rooney Oct 29 2020, 02:02 PM

QUOTE(Moriz Oculiz @ Oct 29 2020, 01:49 PM) *
One thing I won't give Corbyn is that he wasn't great on making himself look good to the public, even though he's probably a far better person than the majority of MPs.

I reckon the suspension was planned for a while. Pros: it makes Starmer look decisive and uncompromising on this issue (if he's smart, he'll turn his attention to attacking the Conservatives whenever they next slip up a racism of any description, because Labour's 'house is in order'). Cons: it completes the purge of Labour MPs with left-leaning views from nearly any position of power in the Labour party. Well, it might be a con. Depends how many fervent Corbyn supporters there actually are and how vocal they can be.


The Corbyn statement wasn't great and while it wasn't damning, it just showed Corbyn's leadership - it's always someone's else's fault. Not going to lie, I knew heads would roll, but suspending Corbyn is pretty big as it pretty much eradicates the Momentum led part of the party (which isn't a bad thing in my opinion). Now you can argue this is Starmer doing the right thing, or he is trying to show people who were Labour voters but didn't like Corbyn, that he is firmly out of the Party ideology.

I don't think it purges the party of left-wing views, it purges the party of die-hard Socialists which right now are probably more of a hinderance than help to the Labour Party for 2024 seeing as they are hellbent on attacking Starmer and not the Tories 2/3rds of the time.

Posted by: Moriz Oculiz Oct 29 2020, 02:15 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 29 2020, 02:02 PM) *
I don't think it purges the party of left-wing views, it purges the party of die-hard Socialists which right now are probably more of a hinderance than help to the Labour Party for 2024 seeing as they are hellbent on attacking Starmer and not the Tories 2/3rds of the time.


See, I can agree on that, I want the left-wing voices to focus on the government's failings and cranks focusing on "Starmer the neoliberal hack" are useless at advocating their ideas, though in the interim period, while we still have plenty of time between now and the next election, I want the left side of the party to influence Starmer enough that he comes up with a policy platform worth caring about and the Shadow Cabinet... could be giving me a lot more confidence.

Posted by: Salty Melody Oct 29 2020, 02:20 PM

I am not a Corbyn hater but to be honest he should have already been suspended from the party when he broke the rule of six at the dinner party.

Posted by: Salty Melody Oct 29 2020, 02:20 PM

-

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 02:46 PM

This should kill the Labour Party now. Truly disgusting that this should happen and that creature Corbyn would be so close to being Prime Minister of my beautiful country.

A new opposition party needs to be born that can compete with the Conservative Party, it's healthy for British democracy.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 02:50 PM

It's not just that creature Corbyn btw, the Labour Party is riddled with Jew hater MP's and supporters. The Labour Party needs to be shut down.

Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 29 2020, 02:52 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 02:46 PM) *
This should kill the Labour Party now. Truly disgusting that this should happen and that creature Corbyn would be so close to being Prime Minister of my beautiful country.

A new opposition party needs to be born that can compete with the Conservative Party, it's healthy for British democracy.


I doubt it - if anything suspending Corbyn after the comments and having a complete zero tolerance as shown with RLB should actually help Stirmer's message about New Leadership and highlighting he will do what Corbyn has essentially failed to do

Also we are still 3 years away from the next GE anyway

Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 29 2020, 02:53 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 02:50 PM) *
It's not just that creature Corbyn btw, the Labour Party is riddled with Jew hater MP's and supporters. The Labour Party needs to be shut down.


Can we also then shut down the tories for Islamaphobia, sexism, racism in general?

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 02:54 PM

Sadiq Khan should be removed as Mayor of London asap too, he supported Corbyn in all of this. I don't want a Jew hater as mayor of our capital city.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 02:56 PM

QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Oct 29 2020, 02:53 PM) *
Can we also then shut down the tories for Islamaphobia, sexism, racism in general?


No, because it's not true.

Thatcher is one of the greatest, if not the greatest British Prime Ministers we have ever had. She was a Conservative.

Rishi Sunak is proving to be one of the best Chancellors for the UK in decades. He is a Conservative.

Labour had 4 out of 5 choices to choose a female leader, they chose Kier Starmer.

Don't lecture me on sexism or racism!

Posted by: ElectroBoy Oct 29 2020, 02:58 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 02:56 PM) *
No, because it's not true.

Thatcher is one of the greatest, if not the greatest British Prime Ministers we have ever had. She was a Conservative.

Rishi Sunak is proving to be one of the best Chancellors for the UK in decades. He is a Conservative.

Labour had 4 out of 5 choices to choose a female leader, they chose Kier Starmer.

Don't lecture me on sexism or racism!


Ah I didn't realise I was talking to another CrazyChris

As you were

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 03:03 PM

QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Oct 29 2020, 02:58 PM) *
Ah I didn't realise I was talking to another CrazyChris

As you were


Ad hominem attacks is all you have.

As you were.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 29 2020, 03:06 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 02:56 PM) *
No, because it's not true.

Thatcher is one of the greatest, if not the greatest British Prime Ministers we have ever had. She was a Conservative.

Rishi Sunak is proving to be one of the best Chancellors for the UK in decades. He is a Conservative.

Labour had 4 out of 5 choices to choose a female leader, they chose Kier Starmer.

Don't lecture me on sexism or racism!

But Sunak is currently acting far more like a Labour chancellor than a Tory one. What do you think Sunak has done that a Labour chancellor wouldn't?

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 03:10 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 29 2020, 03:06 PM) *
But Sunak is currently acting far more like a Labour chancellor than a Tory one. What do you think Sunak has done that a Labour chancellor wouldn't?


Your argument doesn't make any sense. Are you saying Rishi Sunak is actually a Labour MP?

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 03:14 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 29 2020, 03:06 PM) *
But Sunak is currently acting far more like a Labour chancellor than a Tory one. What do you think Sunak has done that a Labour chancellor wouldn't?


If Rishi Sunak was a Labour Chancellor, England would be looking very similar to Wales atm. A complete disregard to the British economy and only interested in the power over British people.

The Labour Welsh government are an absolute menace, they are truly evil playing with people's lives. They expect and know the UK Conservative government will have to clear up their lockdown mess.

Posted by: Botchia Oct 29 2020, 03:15 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 02:54 PM) *
Sadiq Khan should be removed as Mayor of London asap too, he supported Corbyn in all of this. I don't want a Jew hater as mayor of our capital city.


Sadiq Khan supported the attempt to oust him in 2016. Try again.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 03:21 PM

QUOTE(Botchia @ Oct 29 2020, 03:15 PM) *
Sadiq Khan supported the attempt to oust him in 2016. Try again.


Not because of the anti-semitism. He wanted Corbyn out because Sadiq Khan wanted a Blairite in to keep the UK inside the European Union.

Sadiq Khan never had a problem with Corbyn's problem with Jewish people.

Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 29 2020, 03:27 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:10 PM) *
Your argument doesn't make any sense. Are you saying Rishi Sunak is actually a Labour MP?

Read what I said. Then try again.

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:14 PM) *
If Rishi Sunak was a Labour Chancellor, England would be looking very similar to Wales atm. A complete disregard to the British economy and only interested in the power over British people.

The Labour Welsh government are an absolute menace, they are truly evil playing with people's lives. They expect and know the UK Conservative government will have to clear up their lockdown mess.

The Welsh government is acting in the interests of Wales. That is its job.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 03:29 PM

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Oct 29 2020, 03:27 PM) *
Read what I said. Then try again.
The Welsh government is acting in the interests of Wales. That is its job.


The Welsh government are not working in the interests of Wales, they're playing games with people's lives, just like Andy Burnham, another bloody terrible Labour mayor.

The Labour Party are a menace across the UK, shut the Labour party down and say good riddance to it.

Posted by: Botchia Oct 29 2020, 03:35 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:21 PM) *
Not because of the anti-semitism. He wanted Corbyn out because Sadiq Khan wanted a Blairite in to keep the UK inside the European Union.

Sadiq Khan never had a problem with Corbyn's problem with Jewish people.


I guess I imagined all that press over the past few years of him publicly criticising Corbyn and his handling of anti-semitism within the party.

I find it curious you've singled out Sadiq Khan over every Labour MP including those in Corbyn's inner circle and Shami Chakrabarti whose inquiry concluded the opposite of the ECHR report today.

Posted by: T Boy Oct 29 2020, 03:36 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:29 PM) *
The Welsh government are not working in the interests of Wales, they're playing games with people's lives, just like Andy Burnham, another bloody terrible Labour mayor.

The Labour Party are a menace across the UK, shut the Labour party down and say good riddance to it.


Welsh Labour are focused on saving lives. We’re in a two week lockdown for which we have an end date. I feel more sorry for those in England who are locked in tier 3 with no end in sight.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 03:38 PM

QUOTE(T Boy @ Oct 29 2020, 03:36 PM) *
Welsh Labour are focused on saving lives. We’re in a two week lockdown for which we have an end date. I feel more sorry for those in England who are locked in tier 3 with no end in sight.


Welsh Labour are communists. Only essential items allowed. That is sick from Labour.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 03:42 PM

QUOTE(Botchia @ Oct 29 2020, 03:35 PM) *
I guess I imagined all that press over the past few years of him publicly criticising Corbyn and his handling of anti-semitism within the party.

I find it curious you've singled out Sadiq Khan over every Labour MP including those in Corbyn's inner circle and Shami Chakrabarti whose inquiry concluded the opposite of the ECHR report today.


I'm glad you mentioned Shami Chakrabarti. She was the one that tried to sweep all of this under the carpet and then was awarded a seat in the House of Lords from Corbyn! She needs removing from the House of Lords. Or better yet, just shut the Labour party down completely.

Posted by: Rooney Oct 29 2020, 03:42 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 02:50 PM) *
It's not just that creature Corbyn btw, the Labour Party is riddled with Jew hater MP's and supporters. The Labour Party needs to be shut down.


Bit like the Tories who are riddled with closet racists, climate change deniers and people who think the death penalty should be brought back!

All parties have their extreme natures. The good news is that the current Labour leadership are willing to stamp out anti-semitism and win the support back of the Jewish community.

Posted by: T Boy Oct 29 2020, 03:49 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:38 PM) *
Welsh Labour are communists. Only essential items allowed. That is sick from Labour.


For two weeks only and everything still available online. I’m no fan of it but it’s in place to help businesses that have to close.

I bet you’ve never even met a Welsh person.

Posted by: Trump's Neck WAP Oct 29 2020, 03:49 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 02:46 PM) *
This should kill the Labour Party now. Truly disgusting that this should happen and that creature Corbyn would be so close to being Prime Minister of my beautiful country.

A new opposition party needs to be born that can compete with the Conservative Party, it's healthy for British democracy.


Shut it, troll.

It is disgusting that the vile creature Bojo the Clown and his puppet master Cummings seized power in this beautiful country. Corbyn was the only TRUE democratic choice in DECADES, away from the neoliberal extreme centrists beholden to the rich. The Tories and their control of the media are a DISASTER for democracy, as is first past the post, and they are quickly hurtling us towards authotitarian dictatorship. Btw, just because your side "wins" using nefarious means, does not equate = DemOcRaCyyyyy. It just doesn't.

Btw, any comments on the anti semitism, Islamophobia, sexism, homophobia, and xenophobia on the right and in the tories? Whaaaat? Nooo?

Posted by: Trump's Neck WAP Oct 29 2020, 03:50 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:42 PM) *
I'm glad you mentioned Shami Chakrabarti. She was the one that tried to sweep all of this under the carpet and then was awarded a seat in the House of Lords from Corbyn! She needs removing from the House of Lords. Or better yet, just shut the Labour party down completely.


So you support tory dictatorship then? Good to know.

Posted by: Rooney Oct 29 2020, 03:57 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:52 PM) *
I'm half Welsh.

Now stick that where the sun doesn't shine, you ignorant toad.

Labour have been a disaster for Wales.


Have you stocked up on soy sauce?

Posted by: Sixth Sense Oct 29 2020, 03:59 PM

QUOTE(ElectroBoy @ Oct 29 2020, 02:58 PM) *
Ah I didn't realise I was talking to another CrazyChris

As you were



Oi. There's only one Crazychris. Please don't liken me to any other poster. mad.gif

Posted by: Suedehead2 Oct 29 2020, 03:59 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 03:29 PM) *
The Welsh government are not working in the interests of Wales, they're playing games with people's lives, just like Andy Burnham, another bloody terrible Labour mayor.

The Labour Party are a menace across the UK, shut the Labour party down and say good riddance to it.

Bearing in mind that Burnham had the support of most of his region's Tory MPs, in what way is he playing politics with people's lives?

Posted by: Moriz Oculiz Oct 29 2020, 03:59 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 29 2020, 03:42 PM) *
Bit like the Tories who are riddled with closet racists, climate change deniers and people who think the death penalty should be brought back!

All parties have their extreme natures. The good news is that the current Labour leadership are willing to stamp out anti-semitism and win the support back of the Jewish community.


And of course in the Tories, anti-semitism, though anti-semitism in the Tories tends to manifest in the very dangerous canard of anti-semitic control, Soros + illuminati-like conspiracism, up to and including current members of the government. Not (though yes, some of Labour's problems went beyond this) debates over whether it's okay to criticise the Israeli government.

They are a horrific party, and the few women and minorities they do promote end up making things worse for the rest, which is hardly great feminism or equality.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 04:00 PM

Thank God Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party never won last year's general election, we would never have known about any of this.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 04:04 PM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 29 2020, 03:57 PM) *
Have you stocked up on soy sauce?


I see Remoaners have now turned Project Fear into Project Drear.

Remoaners boring British people over their precious EU and what could have been. The Labour Party can't save you now, the UK will never be back inside the EU project.

Posted by: Moriz Oculiz Oct 29 2020, 04:06 PM

I find it amusing you're choosing to mock us by saying 'the Labour Party is dead' rather than the entirely more realistic option of 'the Labour Party has just turned into the British version of the US Democrats'.

Posted by: Crypt of the Wombat Oct 29 2020, 04:10 PM

PeaceMob, this is a place for debating and not personal insults. Any more of that and you're getting a warning.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 04:12 PM

QUOTE(Moriz Oculiz @ Oct 29 2020, 04:06 PM) *
I find it amusing you're choosing to mock us by saying 'the Labour Party is dead' rather than the entirely more realistic option of 'the Labour Party has just turned into the British version of the US Democrats'.


As long as Trump stays in power then it's all good. Aside from that, I don't really care about American politics and I especially don't care about the Democrat Party.

Posted by: Quarantilas Oct 29 2020, 04:18 PM

The end of Michaels posting blockade is the *only* thing good about this particular instance of peacemob crawling out from under his rock to shout at the youths


QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 05:29 PM) *
The Welsh government are not working in the interests of Wales, they're playing games with people's lives, just like Andy Burnham, another bloody terrible Labour mayor.

The Labour Party are a menace across the UK, shut the Labour party down and say good riddance to it.

I lived in Salford when Burnham was elected (he got my second preference and the greens got my first because while I strongly believe the Green Party are a waste of oxygen, their candidate had the best manifesto and vision for GM) and can say with all my heart that he is an excellent Mayor, a great fighter for the people of GM and has the support of the absolute majority of people throughout the City

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 06:04 PM) *
I see Remoaners have now turned Project Fear into Project Drear.

Remoaners boring British people over their precious EU and what could have been. The Labour Party can't save you now, the UK will never be back inside the EU project.

I think you’re technically correct here to say that the United Kingdom will never be an EU member state again.

But that has more to do with the fact that certainly before the end of this decade, if not within the next handful of years, the UK will have ceased to exist.

Posted by: ɥɔʇᴉʍ Oct 29 2020, 04:22 PM

As you were, "Peace"mob

Posted by: Sixth Sense Oct 29 2020, 04:26 PM

QUOTE(PeaceMob @ Oct 29 2020, 04:00 PM) *
Thank God Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party never won last year's general election, we would never have known about any of this.



That's true. It would alll have been covered up to save the PM.

Posted by: PeaceMob Oct 29 2020, 04:29 PM

QUOTE(Quarantilas @ Oct 29 2020, 04:18 PM) *
The end of Michaels posting blockade is the *only* thing good about this particular instance of peacemob crawling out from under his rock to shout at the youths
I lived in Salford when Burnham was elected (he got my second preference and the greens got my first because while I strongly believe the Green Party are a waste of oxygen, their candidate had the best manifesto and vision for GM) and can say with all my heart that he is an excellent Mayor, a great fighter for the people of GM and has the support of the absolute majority of people throughout the City
I think you’re technically correct here to say that the United Kingdom will never be an EU member state again.

But that has more to do with the fact that certainly before the end of this decade, if not within the next handful of years, the UK will have ceased to exist.


If your predictions are anything to go by in the last couple of years, I don't have anything to worry about there.

The UK will be stronger than ever outside of the EU, the UK can be a force for good in the world, Global Britain is the future, the UK-Japan free trade deal recently and the CPTPP membership and freeports coming next year are just the beginning.

Posted by: Steve201 Oct 29 2020, 06:07 PM

So Corbyn is suspended from the party following this report but Tony Blair got away Scott free for killing thousands of Iraqis - proper order PLP

Posted by: Boo!piter Oct 29 2020, 06:15 PM

Now this is an example of where cancel culture would be a big plus.

The rantings of two lunatics. It's like watching two bots or two Alexas in a neverending loop.

Posted by: Rooney Oct 30 2020, 01:11 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Oct 29 2020, 06:07 PM) *
So Corbyn is suspended from the party following this report but Tony Blair got away Scott free for killing thousands of Iraqis - proper order PLP


They're two different issues here. However I do agree Blair got away quite lightly.

Corbyn has been suspended because he's done what he's continually done through his time as Leader of the Labour Party.. he just cannot help himself. The report is damming and it points out anti-semitism was rife within the party. Corbyn pipes up that it isn't actually that big of a deal! It's almost like he wanted to be suspended. Just so politically naive from him.

Funniest part right now is the people have have raised £330k for Corbyn's legal fees. I know I've said he has a cult like following before, but it's true. So many more better causes people could be donating their money to rather than a millionaire's legal fees.

Posted by: Moriz Oculiz Oct 30 2020, 03:01 AM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Oct 30 2020, 01:11 AM) *
They're two different issues here. However I do agree Blair got away quite lightly.

Corbyn has been suspended because he's done what he's continually done through his time as Leader of the Labour Party.. he just cannot help himself. The report is damming and it points out anti-semitism was rife within the party. Corbyn pipes up that it isn't actually that big of a deal! It's almost like he wanted to be suspended. Just so politically naive from him.

Funniest part right now is the people have have raised £330k for Corbyn's legal fees. I know I've said he has a cult like following before, but it's true. So many more better causes people could be donating their money to rather than a millionaire's legal fees.


Thing is though, I disagree that the report is damning. It notes the improvements the Party were making, its main concern is with the historical cases of Livingstone and Bromley, and it fits with the other evidence that suggests that once a procedure was put in place https://labourlist.org/2019/02/eliminate-the-evil-of-antisemitism-from-our-movement-that-is-my-mission-says-jennie-formby/, the incidents dropped off. The report also mentioned nothing about the Labour staffers that hampered Corbyn's efforts to deal with it, as far as I can see. That's a failing of that report. I don't want to get too conspiratorial or whataboutery about the commission itself but the EHRC refusing to investigate Tory Islamophobia a few months ago really does stand out.

So yes, fighting this is a fight only an old man with no future in leading a party would take (because politically I can't see it shifting the needle of public opinion too far no matter what happens), but I can understand, after your team put in a lot of effort to respond to the claims, being indignant at the headline that 'this proves there was anti-semitism', because it's a lot more complex than that. Most damning thing I can say about Corbyn is the coverup with that mural, but for a man who has spent his lifetime fighting racism, he'd want to clear his name generally and work to make sure smears like this can't be used against future leaders who speak truth to power.

Also, the Labour Party aren't officially saying why Corbyn is suspended, they need to - and Article 10 in the report appears to protect Corbyn on the basis of his statement. This could take a while, he may be found to have been unlawfully suspended.


Posted by: Steve201 Oct 30 2020, 08:44 AM

Exactly, and stop calling Corbyn a cult! Are centrists a cult to then? It’s just a diminishing tactic to make your arguements look a lot more sensible when they are all political opinions at the end of the day!

Posted by: Sixth Sense Oct 30 2020, 08:48 AM

The media are all saying the reason because he said the extent of ant-semitism within the party isn't as bad as the report makes out. If hadn't said that he wouldn't have had the whip removed. Was not the contents of the report as such.

Posted by: Rooney Oct 30 2020, 11:33 AM

QUOTE(Moriz Oculiz @ Oct 30 2020, 03:01 AM) *
Thing is though, I disagree that the report is damning. It notes the improvements the Party were making, its main concern is with the historical cases of Livingstone and Bromley, and it fits with the other evidence that suggests that once a procedure was put in place https://labourlist.org/2019/02/eliminate-the-evil-of-antisemitism-from-our-movement-that-is-my-mission-says-jennie-formby/, the incidents dropped off. The report also mentioned nothing about the Labour staffers that hampered Corbyn's efforts to deal with it, as far as I can see. That's a failing of that report. I don't want to get too conspiratorial or whataboutery about the commission itself but the EHRC refusing to investigate Tory Islamophobia a few months ago really does stand out.

So yes, fighting this is a fight only an old man with no future in leading a party would take (because politically I can't see it shifting the needle of public opinion too far no matter what happens), but I can understand, after your team put in a lot of effort to respond to the claims, being indignant at the headline that 'this proves there was anti-semitism', because it's a lot more complex than that. Most damning thing I can say about Corbyn is the coverup with that mural, but for a man who has spent his lifetime fighting racism, he'd want to clear his name generally and work to make sure smears like this can't be used against future leaders who speak truth to power.

Also, the Labour Party aren't officially saying why Corbyn is suspended, they need to - and Article 10 in the report appears to protect Corbyn on the basis of his statement. This could take a while, he may be found to have been unlawfully suspended.



The Labour Party has been the first party openly scrutinised as being racist since the BNP. If that is not damaging then I don't know what is, regardless of what else the EHRC might have done, now is not the time to say "well I disagree". Literally within hours of the publication, Corbyn came out and openly said to the media marks which were called problematic (and illegal) in the report. This is why Corbyn has got himself suspended, because the guy just cannot help himself. It's part of the reason Labour are in this mess, although it is not entirely his fault, it just accelerated under his leadership. His behaviour around the issue over years is problematic. I'm not suggesting Corbyn is anti-semite, only that he either has huge blind spots, or he is not as remotely 'principled' as he and supporters make out and highly pragmatic around the issue of antisemitism if he perceives it as advantageous. But that's too tactical for Corbyn. I think it is most probable that Corbyn simply does not understand the issues because he's (willfully) ignorant.

I just wish the dirty laundry was not being aired up public as the Tories will be loving this. But I suppose it is better now than in 2023.

Posted by: Steve201 Oct 30 2020, 11:48 PM

I would say anyone in his position would look to defend himself from accusations tbf.

It is ironic that the party that set up the EHRC becomes the party being investigated.

Posted by: spiceboy Nov 5 2020, 10:46 AM

How labour are investigated for this and Conservatives have not been investigated for islamophobia I do not know!?!?

Posted by: J00psichord Nov 5 2020, 10:59 AM

The tories haven't let themselves be investigated for anything.

The whole thing is bonkers. The powers that be have only investigated ONE party for anything, and have then suggested on zero proof that anything bad they've found is a) limited to that party and b) now its been found there, is solved & we don't need to look anywhere else for any.

Posted by: Botchia Nov 5 2020, 11:04 AM

QUOTE(spiceboy @ Nov 5 2020, 10:46 AM) *
How labour are investigated for this and Conservatives have not been investigated for islamophobia I do not know!?!?


Unfortunately the EHRC are not going to investigate because of the long awaited independent investigation commissioned by the Tory party is supposedly taking place (it's not).

Posted by: Doctor Blind Nov 17 2020, 09:50 PM

Corbyn has been reinstated.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 17 2020, 10:49 PM

Justice at last

Posted by: Doctor Blind Nov 17 2020, 11:59 PM

Statement from Jewish Labour: https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/jvl-responds-to-jeremy-corbyns-apology/

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 17 2020, 10:49 PM) *
Justice at last


He was completely out of order for what he said at the time of the report, but the clarification makes it clear that he hasn't done anything that would warrant suspension.

Indeed one of the recommendations of the report was the LOTO's office not being involved with the disciplinary process - which Starmer claimed he was happy to implement and yet he took the action to suspend Corbyn, directly ignoring one of the EHRCs key recommendations.

Furthermore, one of the key findings from the report:

QUOTE
10. EHRC did not find that the Labour Party is institutionally antisemitic.


Something you wouldn't know watching the BBC of course.

Posted by: 💀 Mori 💀 Nov 18 2020, 01:03 AM

As much as centrist political nerds are spelling out doom with Corbyn being allowed back in, this is the right option for the future. It probably won't cut through to the public nearly as much as his suspension did, and if he was left outside the party there was a lot more potential for the party to alienate its left base (and the issue of why he was suspended is no longer an issue). His updated statement shows he isn't going to rock the boat further and statements like the above from Jewish Voice For Labour indicate a positive trend.

just hope this stat goes down again to give some truth to that prediction:


Posted by: Steve201 Nov 18 2020, 09:55 AM

Indeed, I didn't see this as the first news story anywhere yesterday so the public at large probably think hes still suspended.

And yes the centrist nerds as you call them make themselves out to be lighter than light liberals when we all know they have fascist tendencies.

Posted by: 💀 Mori 💀 Nov 18 2020, 11:37 AM

ugh, never mind then, Starmer wants to keep this dragging on, he's not restoring the whip even though Corbyn should have it back automatically https://twitter.com/schneiderhome/status/1328974399068893184.

Hard to see how it won't end with Corbyn having the whip back eventually so time to start a factional war and have that go on for a few months to allow the media their Labour disaster headlines yay I hate this

if he was following operation draw a line under it then accepting Corbyn's return and giving the media no more scope for interest, just answer all questions with 'yes, we are implementing the EHRC's recommendations according to x timescale' and we'd have been FINE

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 18 2020, 09:55 AM) *
Indeed, I didn't see this as the first news story anywhere yesterday so the public at large probably think hes still suspended.

And yes the centrist nerds as you call them make themselves out to be lighter than light liberals when we all know they have fascist tendencies.


I'd never say fascist tendencies (because we want to win them over!), but they can be useful idiots that real fascists can exploit. It's more that despite their claims, dishonesty about actually wanting things to get better for everyone should the solution affect their bottom line.

Posted by: Doctor Blind Nov 18 2020, 11:52 AM

I don't think having the whip restored is all that important to the membership, being reinstated in the party was the key thing here. Besides JC has always been independently minded and voted against the Labour Party through much of the time that they were in government so being an 'Independent MP' who happens to be a member of the Labour Party is probably an accurate reflection of who he is.

We're after all talking about geeky minutiae that the GP couldn't care less about.

Posted by: 💀 Mori 💀 Nov 18 2020, 11:58 AM

I really do hope you're right, and if so, the amount of cut through that'll matter will be minimal, though I would still expect another few big headlines of Labour infighting in the months ahead with this route.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 18 2020, 01:26 PM

I foresaw Jezza triumphantly returning to the commons past Starmer at PMQs today so maybe he wanted to stop that lol

Posted by: Sixth Sense Nov 18 2020, 05:36 PM

QUOTE(💀 Mori 💀 @ Nov 18 2020, 11:58 AM) *
I really do hope you're right, and if so, the amount of cut through that'll matter will be minimal, though I would still expect another few big headlines of Labour infighting in the months ahead with this route.



Good. The more Labour infighting before the next election the better the chance of the Tories winning again.

Posted by: J00psichord Nov 18 2020, 05:52 PM

The Tories who make you jump through hoops to get your benefits...

Posted by: Sixth Sense Nov 18 2020, 06:02 PM

QUOTE(J00psichord @ Nov 18 2020, 05:52 PM) *
The Tories who make you jump through hoops to get your benefits...



Well they have to be a bit careful. Too many taking the mickey these days.

Posted by: T Boy Nov 18 2020, 06:19 PM

QUOTE(Sixth Sense @ Nov 18 2020, 05:36 PM) *
Good. The more Labour infighting before the next election the better the chance of the Tories winning again.


The Tories will need every advantage they can get following a disastrous Brexit and the handling of the pandemic.

Posted by: J00psichord Nov 18 2020, 07:13 PM

QUOTE(Sixth Sense @ Nov 18 2020, 06:02 PM) *
Well they have to be a bit careful. Too many taking the mickey these days.


I have no words.
You've been on benefits for literal decades.

Posted by: Rooney Nov 18 2020, 08:31 PM

By the time 2024 comes around, this debacle will be a flash in the pan. I can see why the left of the Party are peeved, but actually Doctor Blind makes a great point in that Corbyn has acted as an Independent for pretty much his entire political career. I guess they have run the numbers and banked that having the support of the Jewish community is better for the long term. I do think it is also partly that Corbyn and the Labour Party as it is currently cannot co-exist. I think eventually Starmer will go full nuclear in 2021 and just tell every union to back them or f*** off.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 18 2020, 11:56 PM

Sounds like the perfect social democratic Tory party of your dreams there Rooney!

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 18 2020, 11:57 PM

QUOTE(Sixth Sense @ Nov 18 2020, 05:36 PM) *
Good. The more Labour infighting before the next election the better the chance of the Tories winning again.


Read more history books, if it wasn’t for the Labour Party the country would be horrible!

Posted by: Rooney Nov 19 2020, 12:45 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 18 2020, 11:56 PM) *
Sounds like the perfect social democratic Tory party of your dreams there Rooney!



Not really, I'd prefer it the Party could just realise the previous leadership made some huge errors of judgement and the new leadership is trying to address these issues and win back the public trust. Of course mistakes will be made along the way too. But the issue isn't going away. The idea that the Party can forget Corbyn is not true. But sooner or later I think Corbyn will probably resign, a few no hopers like Burgon will hopefully follow and then a few others will probably have to make a decision whether they want a career in the Labour Party or not and how to behave if they do.

But here's the problem, everyone who has some remotely moderate ideas is labelled a Tory by the Left when people should be working together to you know, actually beat the Tories!


Posted by: Steve201 Nov 19 2020, 10:07 AM

Youre first paragraph really answered my tongue in cheek point and the part about 'whether they want a career in the labour party' equally symbolises the mentality of centrists which in reality can be either tory or labour they are all the same with the same values.

Its like the end of Animal Farm - 'he looked in the window and man and pig, all were the same!'

Posted by: 💀 Mori 💀 Nov 19 2020, 10:37 AM

QUOTE(Rooney @ Nov 19 2020, 12:45 AM) *
Not really, I'd prefer it the Party could just realise the previous leadership made some huge errors of judgement and the new leadership is trying to address these issues and win back the public trust. Of course mistakes will be made along the way too. But the issue isn't going away. The idea that the Party can forget Corbyn is not true. But sooner or later I think Corbyn will probably resign, a few no hopers like Burgon will hopefully follow and then a few others will probably have to make a decision whether they want a career in the Labour Party or not and how to behave if they do.

But here's the problem, everyone who has some remotely moderate ideas is labelled a Tory by the Left when people should be working together to you know, actually beat the Tories!


Everyone with remotely progressive ideas is labelled a idealistic socialist by the Centre (egged on by the right) when people should be working together to actually beat the Tories - applicable to the last 4 years, and the Centre didn't, splitting themselves off into FPBE types or even jumping ship to the Tories.

I mean, the Left in Britain is going through some stuff - in that there's an immense feeling of betrayal, most commentators are calling for them to purge their opinions from public life and they can't really move on from their figurehead (as much as most of them are ready to!) because his legacy is being tarnished in ways that seem more like ensuring his ideas don't come back than it is punishing him.

Of course, the goals are shared (at least right now), but with that, there must be room in the party for old figureheads like McDonnell and up and coming left MPs like Nadia Whittome to push left policy from the sidelines, stuff that young voters and less well-off voters can get excited about - or indeed the result of a possible Labour government will not change enough from the Tory status quo to stop the Tories getting back in after a term. If the Democrats in America can do it with Sanders and AOC (whose energy certainly helped the Democrat campaign), then the Labour Centre would be mad to purge every left figure from any position of relevance, yet at the moment they seem bent on doing just that.

the ones who hurt their cause by speaking up should maybe lie quiet true though

Posted by: Rooney Nov 19 2020, 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 19 2020, 10:07 AM) *
Youre first paragraph really answered my tongue in cheek point and the part about 'whether they want a career in the labour party' equally symbolises the mentality of centrists which in reality can be either tory or labour they are all the same with the same values.

Its like the end of Animal Farm - 'he looked in the window and man and pig, all were the same!'


Yeah but this is precisely why people swing vote (which crucially decide the elections in most democratic states) as the Centre Left and Centre Right ultimately show simialr principles. Sure it's not great for radicalisation, but you have to have larger voter appeal if you want to win an election. And not live in an alternate reality. I'm not against differences, which is true but Corbyn did not have the best interests of the Labour Party throughout his 4 year Leadership spell at all times.

QUOTE(💀 Mori 💀 @ Nov 19 2020, 10:37 AM) *
Everyone with remotely progressive ideas is labelled a idealistic socialist by the Centre (egged on by the right) when people should be working together to actually beat the Tories - applicable to the last 4 years, and the Centre didn't, splitting themselves off into FPBE types or even jumping ship to the Tories.

I mean, the Left in Britain is going through some stuff - in that there's an immense feeling of betrayal, most commentators are calling for them to purge their opinions from public life and they can't really move on from their figurehead (as much as most of them are ready to!) because his legacy is being tarnished in ways that seem more like ensuring his ideas don't come back than it is punishing him.

Of course, the goals are shared (at least right now), but with that, there must be room in the party for old figureheads like McDonnell and up and coming left MPs like Nadia Whittome to push left policy from the sidelines, stuff that young voters and less well-off voters can get excited about - or indeed the result of a possible Labour government will not change enough from the Tory status quo to stop the Tories getting back in after a term. If the Democrats in America can do it with Sanders and AOC (whose energy certainly helped the Democrat campaign), then the Labour Centre would be mad to purge every left figure from any position of relevance, yet at the moment they seem bent on doing just that.

the ones who hurt their cause by speaking up should maybe lie quiet true though


I'm all for some left-learning policies, I definitely think they are needed. I don't think it is Labour's idea to purge all left-learning figures, hell the Party is a left-wing party! The problem is, Corbyn is a backbencher. And his friends and associates claim to have the best interests of the "many" in their hearts, but they are just the same as everyone they seem to hate. And there are numerous examples of this from the likes of McClutskey, McDonnell etc. etc.

At the moment they are just purging people from the Party who don't have Labour's best interests in heart. You serve the party and themselves and their own personal idelogy. Corbyn is a problem for the Labour Party and one that is not going away as the guy cannot keep his mouth shut.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 19 2020, 05:37 PM

I would hardly say he cannot keep his mouth shut he is one of the less in your face left wing types. I mean before 2015 most people or the average person had never heard of him.

Posted by: Rooney Nov 19 2020, 08:38 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 19 2020, 05:37 PM) *
I would hardly say he cannot keep his mouth shut he is one of the less in your face left wing types. I mean before 2015 most people or the average person had never heard of him.


It's not that he is always in the media as he is not, the problem is he does not have the tact to have a avoid questions or put out counter responses. The Tories knew how to wind him up and he would always bite back every time. Similarly the reason he was suspended from the Party is he came out and justified himself. I mean who asks the new Labour Leader a question in PM questions in their first session back?

Posted by: Rooney Nov 27 2020, 12:53 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/26/jeremy-corbyn-start-legal-action-over-suspension-labour-whip

He can't even say sorry. Never ever been about the Labour Party, always about himself. He's retracted his comments but can't bring himself to say sorry. The guy is bizarre, it would have been so easy to get the whip back. Nope, it's all about himself. I genuinely think he believes he didn't become PM because of backstabbing MPs and the weaponising anti-semitism Jewish lobby.

Posted by: 💀 Mori 💀 Nov 27 2020, 03:09 AM

He was suspended, the NEC let him back in. Starmer's withholding of the whip is double jeopardy.

Not best pleased with it dragging on but the way CLPs have been told not to discuss this on threat of suspension doesn't sit right either. https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1332104901552431105, so it's not entirely the hard left getting displeased by this divisiveness.

https://twitter.com/Survationpolls/status/1332033880010919936. That does indicate a decent trend, but not the best it could be. Party is divided, it's moving away from the demographic that most needs its help, and it's not going to be fixed this way.

Posted by: Rooney Nov 27 2020, 10:29 AM

QUOTE(💀 Mori 💀 @ Nov 27 2020, 03:09 AM) *
He was suspended, the NEC let him back in. Starmer's withholding of the whip is double jeopardy.

Not best pleased with it dragging on but the way CLPs have been told not to discuss this on threat of suspension doesn't sit right either. https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1332104901552431105, so it's not entirely the hard left getting displeased by this divisiveness.

https://twitter.com/Survationpolls/status/1332033880010919936. That does indicate a decent trend, but not the best it could be. Party is divided, it's moving away from the demographic that most needs its help, and it's not going to be fixed this way.


Getting the whip back is easy - if he apologies (after he has retracted his comments) then it is done. Instead, he is taking the Labour Party to court because he says he agreed to say something about the EHRC report (the complete opposite of his previously stated views).

Unfortunately Corbyn's impact on Labour is like Trump's on America. Both are not going away. I could understand if either were actually good at their jobs, but both were barely even competent yet they were both shambolic and indept but have this indepth loyalty from the supporters. You are never going to get elected by just appealing to the

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 27 2020, 10:14 PM

Just admit the reality Rooney this isn’t about Corbyn for you or us it’s about ideology through and through.

Posted by: Rooney Nov 27 2020, 10:38 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 27 2020, 10:14 PM) *
Just admit the reality Rooney this isn’t about Corbyn for you or us it’s about ideology through and through.


No, it's about Corbyn. I have nothing wrong with some left policies, the ones which are cost effective and have an impact on society. This is all about Corbyn, a man who is going to push us in to Tory rule for another 5 years despite the fact he is not even a Leader anymore.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 27 2020, 11:35 PM

But your a Tory are you not?

Posted by: Rooney Nov 27 2020, 11:40 PM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 27 2020, 11:35 PM) *
But your a Tory are you not?


I don't have any political affiliation, I've voted for 4 different parties depending on what I think suits myself and society best. Just because I have voted Tory before (under a completely different Leadership), does not make me a Tory.

Posted by: Steve201 Nov 28 2020, 01:17 AM

Fair enough I always remembered reading you favoured the Tory party!

Posted by: Confloppi Nov 28 2020, 07:01 AM

QUOTE(Steve201 @ Nov 28 2020, 02:17 AM) *
Fair enough I always remembered reading you favoured the Tory party!


Anyone who prefers Mad May to Corbyn is a Tory. Actions speak louder than words.

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