OCC: "We will look into the way charts are compiled"

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OCC: "We will look into the way charts are compiled"

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Bjork View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:05 PM Post #21
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 November 2015 Posts: 33,291 User: 22,665	ideally the occ should have made new rules during the week to avoid what's happened but alas... I remember how a few years ago Billboard did introduce a new rule during the week that totally changed the outcome of the charts Billboard used to have this rule that if one album was exclusive to one retailer, then it was chart ineligible, which was an absurd rule... then there was this week when Britney's BlackOut was expected to debut at #1 mainly cos her biggest competition, a new album by The Eagles was ineligible cos it was a Walmart-exclusive... Britney was #1 in all updates but at the last minute Billboard announced that they had changed the rules and then suddenly The Eagles were #1 (they had sold double) and Britney ended up at #2


Ben View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:10 PM Post #22
Chart Chat Slave Joined: 19 March 2006 Posts: 64,344 User: 275	Of course it is not nice to see Ed Sheeran occupying half of the chart but the OCC make themselves a joke if they change the rule again. In the last 2 years or so 4-5 rule changes...


Iz 🌟 View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:17 PM Post #23
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929	QUOTE(Ben @ Mar 10 2017, 09:10 PM) Of course it is not nice to see Ed Sheeran occupying half of the chart but the OCC make themselves a joke if they change the rule again. In the last 2 years or so 4-5 rule changes... What can they do but be constantly changing the rules? The landscape of how people listen to music has changed drastically in the last few years and will continue to change. It's also awkward for them because the way people are consuming music no longer correlates well with creating a chart that will maintain interest, and they need people to be interested in the chart to survive as a business. This week had a good talking point but it will quickly turn against them if it becomes a regular occurrence.


Envoirment View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:29 PM Post #24
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 21 November 2009 Posts: 8,561 User: 10,030	Couldn't they just do it so that songs released as singles have their streams counted towards the singles chart and all other album tracks have their streams counted towards the album chart/s? Then if an album track is made as the next single, its streams will start counting for the singles chart instead? That way a hit single won't buffer an album's sales or a big album flood the single charts?


Ben View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:31 PM Post #25
Chart Chat Slave Joined: 19 March 2006 Posts: 64,344 User: 275	QUOTE(Iz~ @ Mar 10 2017, 10:17 PM) What can they do but be constantly changing the rules? The landscape of how people listen to music has changed drastically in the last few years and will continue to change. It's also awkward for them because the way people are consuming music no longer correlates well with creating a chart that will maintain interest, and they need people to be interested in the chart to survive as a business. This week had a good talking point but it will quickly turn against them if it becomes a regular occurrence. I'm not against rule changes, don't get me wrong, but I think they are changing the rules somehow without real consistency. They've changed the rules when David Bowie was high with an instant grat that wasn't allowed because of an incosistent rule, but they wanted to chart him... they changed this year the streaming rate because they saw streaming is takong over the charts in big steps, but to be honest it wasn't again consistent enough, well we can see on this week's chart. First of all the big mistake they took is that they allowed album tracks' streams to count to both singles and albums, the other mistake imo was that they allowed to count also the streams from non paid subscribers. What they do is just running after the mistakes and trying to solve it (more in short term) and that makes the whole thing a joke (for me).


The Hit Parade View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:32 PM Post #26
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 24 March 2013 Posts: 2,134 User: 18,521	I know a lot of people seem to favour it, but I just think requiring record companies to nominate singles in some way would be a retrograde step.


Ben View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:34 PM Post #27
Chart Chat Slave Joined: 19 March 2006 Posts: 64,344 User: 275	QUOTE(The Hit Parade @ Mar 10 2017, 10:32 PM) I know a lot of people seem to favour it, but I just think requiring record companies to nominate singles in some way would be a retrograde step. And what if the record company of Ed Sheeran says all of the songs are singles? Or just take Beyoncé's example, all of ther songs from the album had videos, so were they all singles?


GTH View member profile	10th March 2017, 09:49 PM Post #28
Gareth T H Joined: 6 February 2010 Posts: 2,501 User: 10,597	QUOTE(Supercell @ Mar 10 2017, 07:25 PM) I wouldn't be surprised if they change the streaming ratio to 1:200 but it'll probably come next year. Not sure why they didn't just have it for this year. The issue in this case is nothing to do with the streaming ratio I don't think. It is more to do with what defines a stream single sale and a stream album sale. In this case, it is clear that many people listened to the whole album on repeat (or at least a large group of songs from it). In this case, those plays should be exclusively classed as an album stream. There is quite evidently a large amount of crossover of stream sales covering both charts which should not happen. Unless each of the 16 tracks has been excessively listened to individually then fair enough, but I highly doubt that is the case here. For example if someone has listened to shape of you 15 times and all the others only 5 times, then this should count as 5 album streams and 10 shape of you single streams. I figure from this chart, that instead of this scenario each of the album tracks has been given the single streams too on top of the album streams.


Tangela View member profile	10th March 2017, 10:16 PM Post #29
Tangelic Joined: 30 September 2016 Posts: 6,689 User: 23,643	http://www.digitalspy.com/music/feature/a8...ever-heres-why/ Here is DigitalSpy's take on it. As a long-term chart nerd I winced at some of the comments though - it's so melodramatic - and furthermore completely got the fact about Rihanna's 'Umbrella' wrong! It really is dumb to say it's all streaming's fault. It's the fault of poorly planned chart rules.


___∆___ View member profile	10th March 2017, 10:42 PM Post #30
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 25 March 2007 Posts: 21,311 User: 3,155	Ed thinks it's 'weird' he has 9 of the Top 10 songs, he's not sure if something has gone wrong but he's happy about it Ed Sheeran has nine of top 10, but thinks it's weird - BBC News https://apple.news/A_7mG_T6mRM2TlRuyV4s0Ow


The Hit Parade View member profile	10th March 2017, 10:42 PM Post #31
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 24 March 2013 Posts: 2,134 User: 18,521	QUOTE(Lenny @ Mar 10 2017, 10:16 PM) http://www.digitalspy.com/music/feature/a8...ever-heres-why/ Here is DigitalSpy's take on it. As a long-term chart nerd I winced at some of the comments though - it's so melodramatic - and furthermore completely got the fact about Rihanna's 'Umbrella' wrong! It really is dumb to say it's all streaming's fault. It's the fault of poorly planned chart rules. Yeah, at least two of the three things he says about 'Umbrella' are wrong. And as somebody who owns several albums by Stevie Wonder, I'm not exactly throwing my hands up in shock at the thought of somebody getting to Number One with a song that isn't their best.


n4yr View member profile	10th March 2017, 10:46 PM Post #32
BuzzJack Gold Member Joined: 24 September 2011 Posts: 2,076 User: 14,964	^ or half of Michael Jackson's number ones for that matter


Mateja View member profile	11th March 2017, 12:00 AM Post #33
BuzzJack Climber Joined: 18 October 2011 Posts: 152 User: 15,071	Streaming changed the music charts forever - it's time for everyone to accept that. As days and weeks go by, more and more people stream music and less and less people buy it (especially digitally). Removing streaming now from the charts isn't an option and they won't be changing the ratio in favor of sales indefinitely just to prop up the impact of dwindling sales. I understand that some people really like to watch the charts on a weekly basis, but the main purpose of the charts is not to entertain the chart watchers. It's to present a realistic representation of music consumption. I don't like the double counting of streams in the singles and album charts either, but it's possible that the streaming services simply deliver the number of streams for each track and don't give any info on how many people streamed the whole album, a few tracks from the album or just the singles on random playlist. Or if the do, perhaps the OCC doesn't have the time or isn't willing to annalyze that.


Jαsє View member profile	11th March 2017, 12:08 AM Post #34
BuzzJack Platinum Member Joined: 13 June 2011 Posts: 19,828 User: 14,043	"and this establishes him as the king."


Iz 🌟 View member profile	11th March 2017, 12:21 AM Post #35
I'm a paragon so don't perceive me Joined: 3 February 2011 Posts: 37,420 User: 12,929	QUOTE(Mateja @ Mar 11 2017, 12:00 AM) I understand that some people really like to watch the charts on a weekly basis, but the main purpose of the charts is not to entertain the chart watchers. It's to present a realistic representation of music consumption. Isn't it? Why have a chart at all if no one is going to be interested in looking at it? And I question whether the current set up is a realistic representation either, given that with the current reach of streaming, it's providing advantage to passive plays and a limited demographic that is slowly killing any hope of diversity in the chart. I don't want to kill streaming from the chart, I want it implemented better so that it results in rewarding an active and changing music fandom while disregarding people cycling over old hits for months on end. It's a fact of life people in general consume old hits for far longer than they are relevant new songs, we don't need the chart to so lifelessly remind us of that. It's more important that the chart breaks new hits and acts on a regular basis than it be 100% accurate because the latter is impossible to ever be ensured less you track every method of music consumption, mp3 streaming, videos, airplay, all the way to public impacts. The former is a worthwhile, achievable and dare I say necessary goal.


Mateja View member profile	11th March 2017, 12:41 AM Post #36
BuzzJack Climber Joined: 18 October 2011 Posts: 152 User: 15,071	QUOTE(Iz~ @ Mar 11 2017, 01:21 AM) Isn't it? Why have a chart at all if no one is going to be interested in looking at it? And I question whether the current set up is a realistic representation either, given that with the current reach of streaming, it's providing advantage to passive plays and a limited demographic that is slowly killing any hope of diversity in the chart. I don't want to kill streaming from the chart, I want it implemented better so that it results in rewarding an active and changing music fandom while disregarding people cycling over old hits for months on end. It's a fact of life people in general consume old hits for far longer than they are relevant new songs, we don't need the chart to so lifelessly remind us of that. It's more important that the chart breaks new hits and acts on a regular basis than it be 100% accurate because the latter is impossible to ever be ensured less you track every method of music consumption, mp3 streaming, videos, airplay, all the way to public impacts. The former is a worthwhile, achievable and dare I say necessary goal. The OCC is supposed to track the methods of music consumption that make the music industry money. If the younger demographic outstreams and completely dwarfs the impact of sales, that's not really a problem for them. Sales are still included in the chart - but as streaming grows, their impact is getting smaller. Trying to protect the representation of older music consumers in the chart at all costs is not going to provide the real picture of the music consumption. Mind you, some older music consumers switched to streaming, too. Isn't streaming 97% or so of Sweden's singles' chart? Well, prepare for that in a few years. If you just want a diverse chart, perhaps it's time for the OCC to stop collecting the sales and streaming data and start doing surveys of chart fans on forums like this one so the OCC can compile charts that the chart fans will enjoy.


Bjork View member profile	11th March 2017, 07:33 AM Post #37
BuzzJack Legend Joined: 13 November 2015 Posts: 33,291 User: 22,665	the more I think about it, I wish the occ was more proactive and changed things before it happened, not after they should have changed this months ago, it had already semi-happened with Bieber/Beyonce/The Weekend but it's the same that happened with the stupid Grat rules, they allowed Grats to chart for ages and only after Bowie made it big with the help of the fake Grats, then they changed the ruled but they should have changed it much earlier


sm1ffj View member profile	11th March 2017, 08:37 AM Post #38
BuzzJack Enthusiast Joined: 27 December 2010 Posts: 1,928 User: 12,629	Could be worse.....I'm Ireland the whole Top 16 are Ed Sheeran


Karma View member profile	11th March 2017, 08:47 AM Post #39
Fire Joined: 8 November 2009 Posts: 9,255 User: 9,912	The thing is this isn't going to be an every day occurrence. This is Ed Sheeran, there isn't anyone else who would of done this to the singles chart, not even the big streaming artists like Drake and JB.


T Boy View member profile	11th March 2017, 09:30 AM Post #40
Radical Pink Troll Joined: 11 March 2006 Posts: 26,606 User: 177	I don't think people are naffed off with Ed Sheeran necessarily, no matter how shit he is, but rather the way they chart has been compiled for a while. The ridiculous Ed situation is just what's prompting people to speak out about it more rather than just being hushed aside by the 'but the chart is more accurate than ever' falsehood being batted around.