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 MY TOP 50 RETRO SITCOMS OF ALL TIME, Totally biased utterly personal rundown - top 10 beckons |
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 11th September 2016, 08:40 AM
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#21
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 BuzzJack Legend
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 10 2016, 10:27 PM)  John Cleese and Connie Booth were divorced by the time of the second series. The very idea that there are 39 programmes (let alone 39 sitcoms) better than Fawlty Towers is just absurd. Yes, they (sadly, or happily for them) were divorced by then, but I never said this was a list based on quality, I promised bias and I'm delivering!  Seriously, it's very difficult to compare 12 episodes with 8, 9, 10, 11 year runs - you could easily pick out 20 classic Seinfeld's (your fave ), call that a total run and suddenly you've got a classic short-run series. Had Fawlty been forced to produce 22 episodes a year for 7 years, overall it would have had way more duffers, become repetitive. The plus side of long-run sitcoms is you don't get as sick of individual episodes as you do with short-run because you dont see them as often, you get character development and the chance to have the characters as part of your life for long chunks of your life, the advantage of short-run is small but perfectly-formed, but they don't develop, they are just snap shots of beautifully-written farce/snappy dialogue/etc. The downside of long-run is consistency is impossible, the downside of short-run is it's easy to get to know every bit of dialogue to the point that you really don't want to see them again for a decade or two. 
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12th September 2016, 05:00 AM
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#22
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 Is anyone here a marine biologist?
Joined: 23 January 2010
Posts: 2,504 User: 10,505
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Sep 11 2016, 09:40 AM) Yes, they (sadly, or happily for them) were divorced by then, but I never said this was a list based on quality, I promised bias and I'm delivering! Seriously, it's very difficult to compare 12 episodes with 8, 9, 10, 11 year runs - you could easily pick out 20 classic Seinfeld's (your fave ), call that a total run and suddenly you've got a classic short-run series. Had Fawlty been forced to produce 22 episodes a year for 7 years, overall it would have had way more duffers, become repetitive. The plus side of long-run sitcoms is you don't get as sick of individual episodes as you do with short-run because you dont see them as often, you get character development and the chance to have the characters as part of your life for long chunks of your life, the advantage of short-run is small but perfectly-formed, but they don't develop, they are just snap shots of beautifully-written farce/snappy dialogue/etc. The downside of long-run is consistency is impossible, the downside of short-run is it's easy to get to know every bit of dialogue to the point that you really don't want to see them again for a decade or two. I agree completely, especially with the BIB.  Fawlty Towers is brilliant but it's hard to compare with other shows. Those 12 episodes are top notch and it was always going to be hard to maintain that quality. Seinfeld was a very consistent show and didn't dip too much in quality. The last two seasons were still great (although slightly more inconsistent compared to the peak years) and the first two seasons are a bit patchy at times. Season 3-7 is comedy gold though. It's hard to compare both shows, but I'm not sure Fawlty Towers would have remained as consistent as Seinfeld did, so in my opinion Seinfeld is the better show overall. |
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12th September 2016, 07:07 AM
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#23
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Poet and Storyteller
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QUOTE(popchartfreak @ Sep 11 2016, 09:40 AM) Had Fawlty been forced to produce 22 episodes a year for 7 years... In a nutshell why I prefer British comedy to American. Not their fault, I guess, since the stations force it. But some American shows have gone bad even before the end of the first "season". |
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12th September 2016, 10:53 AM
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#24
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Is anyone here a marine biologist?
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QUOTE(richie @ Sep 12 2016, 08:07 AM) In a nutshell why I prefer British comedy to American. Not their fault, I guess, since the stations force it. But some American shows have gone bad even before the end of the first "season". I generally prefer American comedy to British comedy, but you're right, the Americans do like to milk their shows. The Simpsons is a perfect example. It was absolutely brilliant in its peak and I have no doubt it would be considered the best show of all time if it ended in the '90s like Seinfeld did. Its legacy has been ruined somewhat by being milked to death. Such a shame. This post has been edited by OutstandingMixer: 12th September 2016, 09:18 PM |
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12th September 2016, 12:52 PM
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#25
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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all good points, and I also am biased (quite heavily) towards American sitcoms. When I rate shows in here though I'm going to be treating them as if the dross doesn't exist - so, The Simpsons died somewhere between 9 and 10, and started in season 2. I havent even seen the last 10 years runs so I can't rate them - the quality died when Futurama started up so I switched shows, though I have bought the DVD's released so far and the odd special episode (like the one Ricky Gervais wrote).
Now, I'm not saying those shows are in the list or not, or where. I will say that any Fave or Best Of without them is incomplete though...
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12th September 2016, 07:24 PM
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#26
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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39. THE GOLDEN GIRLS (1985-92)
Smart, sharp, witty, caustic and lovable Emmy-award-winning and popular, The Golden Girls went against perceived wisdom and had 4 elderly main characters, and all women, as the stars. Susan Harris, creator of Soap, set the show in Miami, Florida as 3 women and an elderly Italian-American mother shared a house - I toured past the house exterior in Disney MGM/Hollwood Studios many times before they bulldozed it - and it reached a whole new audience. Why was it so great? The scripts were good, the cast were fab (Bea Arthur & Rue McClanahan had worked together on Maude, the timeless Betty White had been in sitcoms back to the 50’s, and most famously in The Mary Tyler Moore Show from 1970 onwards, and Estelle Getty made-up to look much older), the topics covered romance (Obviously) but also more ground-breaking serious issues. Rue and Betty switched their lined-up roles to avoid being typecast - McClanahan had already done scatter-brained, and White the Man-Eater - which was good for them, but spoiled it for me cos Betty White is at her best when dealing out assertive flirty dialogue. Bea Arthur’s character Dorothy annoyed me more than the others, though she had most of the clever put-down lines, this tended to grate after a while. A flaw was the lack of sympathy for simple-minded Rose from the other 3, though they are shown to love each other as good friends as the series grows, cue the theme song Thank You For Being A Friend. Enormously popular with many confirmed bachelors, the OAP setting appealed beyond that thanks to the cool, knowing dialogue and content, and it helped to show that retiring didn’t mean at-death’s-door and knitting for older women. The amazing Betty White is now in her 90’s and still a hero for me, Uber-cool, she’ll do a celebrity roast, an awards, or a comedy movie cameo and steal the show from everyone else, sharp and fun-filled, cutting but good-natured. |
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13th September 2016, 08:15 AM
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#27
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Poet and Storyteller
Joined: 11 March 2006
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I know we're going off point slightly with The Simpsons, but for me the golden age is series one to series five. I'll very happily sit down and watch any episode from that period. Yes, I even like Homer's "strange" voice and the crooked artwork of the very beginning. The stories had heart.
After that the good episodes are few and far between and I don't think they've made an episode that's really worth watching in the last 20 years. Who on earth is still watching? |
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13th September 2016, 11:19 AM
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#28
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
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The first season actually put me off watching the show, it was so slow-paced, more in the vein of the better (first season Simpsons only) Wait Till Your Father Gets Home a forgotten 70's animated gem - that just missed out on the list. I quickly gave up until it got snappier in season 2 or 3, then became a huge fan. I enoy season 1 these days, as you say more charming than subsequent seasons, but it gets better as it goes on.
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21st September 2016, 06:49 PM
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#29
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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38. PORRIDGE (1974-7)
Writers Dick Clement and Ian La Frenais’ best TV sitcom, everything just worked beautifully in this prison-set show, great sharp dialogue, cynicism with a warm heart, great characters and a fabulous cast led by the wonderful multitalented “Two Ronnies” Ronny Barker as repeat-prison-offender thief Norman Stanley Fletcher. Support from Richard Beckinsale as Godber was a step-up from his previous TV series The Lovers and as good as another top TV show from 1974 he starred in which is yet to feature. The supporting cast included prison warders Fulton Mackay and Brian Wilde with recurring co-stars and guests like Christopher Biggins, David Jason and many others. A mere 21 episodes over 3 series, it spawned the little-seen TV series Going Straight, which featured Fletch out of prison and with his family (his daughter Ingrid was now girlfriend to Godber), and a feature film spin-off. In 2016 a remake one-off (so far) had a completely new cast, but lacked the sparkle of the originals. The show managed to avoid getting too sentimental but was somehow probably too clever and too cosy to be realistic, but who cares, the scripts were terrific! Great set-ups to one-liners like “Beautiful Babs”, “Fill that jar” and “are you a practicing homosexual?” stick in my mind with the punchlines “don’t know what her name is”, “what - from here?” and “what, with these feet?” Trust me, hilarious in context...! |
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21st September 2016, 08:14 PM
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#30
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
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Going Straight also featured a young Nicholas Lyndhurst as Fletcher's son. It was widely panned by the critics, but I didn't think it was that bad. Sadly, Richard Beckinsale's death ended any real chance of further series.
Porridge is another programme that benefits from being ended while it was still at its best. Obviously, the set-up meant that it was always going to have a limited run. The remake this year was OK and seemed to have been written in part to test the wearers for a full series. |
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22nd September 2016, 11:42 AM
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#31
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Sep 21 2016, 09:14 PM) Going Straight also featured a young Nicholas Lyndhurst as Fletcher's son. It was widely panned by the critics, but I didn't think it was that bad. Sadly, Richard Beckinsale's death ended any real chance of further series. Porridge is another programme that benefits from being ended while it was still at its best. Obviously, the set-up meant that it was always going to have a limited run. The remake this year was OK and seemed to have been written in part to test the wearers for a full series. I'd like to see them again actually (Going Straight) - I recall enjoying them and the cast, but not as much as Porridge. |
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27th October 2016, 06:53 PM
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#32
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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37. PHYLLIS (1975-77)
A forgotten gem starring the timelessly wonderful Cloris Leachman, star of Young Frankenstein and other comedy movies, and numerous sitcoms from Mary Tyler Moore Show to Malcolm In The Middle. Phyllis was actually a spin-off from The Mary Tyler Moore Show, where she starred as Mary's conceited, self-obsessed, critical landlady. The first spin-off, Rhoda, was doing fine in the ratings in 1975, so they stuck Phyllis between it and huge show All In The Family, with a great supporting cast, some great scripts (later borrowed and essentially rewritten in other creatively-related sitcoms like The Golden Girls and Cheers - Glen & Les Charles were writers and producers of Taxi, Cheers, MTM and David Lloyd writer of those shows and also Soap, Frasier & The Bob Newhart Show. In other words, a first-class pedigree. The first season of the show was instantly struck by real-life tragedy as one of the cast was murdered 3 episodes in, but the ratings were actually even higher than for Rhoda - a show I also loved and which just missed the list - and Mary Tyler Moore Show. Sadly, the Network forgot the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" scenario and mucked around with the cast and setting for the second season of both Phyllis and Rhoda, which led to both plummeting ratings and cancellation for both, Phyllis only lasting 2 seasons, unable to cope with the deaths of two more elderly (and popular) cast members, and the illness of another on top of all the changes. the fab cheesy showtune theme tune I loved Cloris and Phyllis, it was what you would call Politically Incorrect, and genuinely side-splitting at times, most memorably an episode i recorded on reel-to-reel featuring Phyllis' daughter Beth going out with a boy who's parents were little people, and Phyllis' inability to avoid referring to height accidentally in every way possible was so good it cropped up in The Golden Girls in much the same scenario and gags. Cloris Leachman is an 8-time Emmy-winner, and 1946 (!!) Miss America finalist, always funny and inventive, and at the age of 82 became the oldest perfomer on Dancing With The Stars, and the 90-year-old keeps on working, from Family Guy to Hawaii 5-0 guest spots and more. Just to show she can do drama as easily as comedy, she turned in an Oscar-winning dramatic performance in The Last Picture Show in 1971, among many others. Legend! Love her. |
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3rd November 2016, 09:06 PM
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#33
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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36. THE MONKEES (1966-68)
Half pop-video of a pop group created for TV, and inspired by the Beatles madcap movies, and stylistically The Marx Brothers movies crossed with playing with the relatively new artform of television in creative ways, The Monkees sitcom seemed to enrage the British press for daring to (gasp) feature some actors singing other people’s songs to backing musicians. The Beatles had no such problems with the instantly huge band who dominated the charts in 1967 in both the USA and UK: they saw them for what they were (two musician singer-songwriters who took a chance on a break - Mike Nesmith wrote many of the best Monkees songs, not to mention having a hand in MTV’s start-up, and Peter Tork was a hippie folkie) along with two actors who happened to be great singers (child actors Micky Dolenz, and the Brit Davy Jones) and occasional good songwriters. The promo videos were amusing, and from my point of view, powerful, 2 or 3 a week tucked inside loose fantastical plotlines. The Monkees played themselves, as struggling Californian musicians, and the plots ranged from saving European princesses, mad scientists with groovy monsters, Davy’s string of romances, and many more toying with Hollywood movie settings in a playful way (see Some Like It Lukewarm cross-dressing clip). That’s not to say they didn’t take the piss out of the charlatans in the movie and music business (they did), but it was always madcap, not vicious. The irony was, The Monkees fought a battle with Don Kirshner, music maestro, over having control over their own recordings (which they won, and creatively successfully). Don was so angered he started his next TV show band as a cartoon band so they couldn’t argue back (The Archies) who I also loved (musically), the TV show was kindergarten tosh I’m afraid. The TV show creators, Bob Rafelson and Bert Schneider, had greater ambitions though - they went on to do The Monkees hippie psychedelia-tripping movie Head and then Hippie-cult Easy Rider. They were proper cool! Me, I still love the TV show in small doses - it’s endlessly endearing and whimsical, albeit not “belly-laughs” in any way: the characters are too broad, and the scripts aren’t built along smart-dialogue lines, it was more in the self-mocking pop-culture vein of the 1966 Batman series (which is actually funnier, but doesn’t qualify as it’s not really a “sitcom” as such, it’s a superhero show which is intentionally hammy). Best episode: I Was A Teenage Monster, starring future Bond villain Richard Kiel and a fabulous German mad scientist and hunchback henchman. All together now: “Goorahhhh!” full fab episode here: |
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16th November 2016, 07:39 PM
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#34
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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35. THE HIGH LIFE (1994/5)
A short-lived sitcom of only 7 episodes, this Scottish-based piss-take of budget airlines remains an unknown BBC treat, starring and created by future movie-star Alan Cummings and Forbes Masson. A sort of advance-scout for Come Fly With Me, this series was much-more satisfyingly whole, with it’s madcap surreal moments of Eurovision mickey-taking, Batman spoofing and a host of camp, bitchy quips and characters like Hitler-In-Tights Shona Spurtle, or the drunk, clueless posh pilot Captain Duff. The showtune theme song sets the mood.... The stars though were Cummings & Masson as Sebastian & Steve, based on their stage characters that developed on the live circuit, and the scripts were also written by them. I loved the one-liners, putdowns and flights (arf!) of fantasy, and felt it had much more life in it than one series. They actually wrote another series, but Alan Cummings decided he’d rather be an international movie star in America than a minor cult comic actor in Scotland and England (selfish git!), so sadly it never happened. Doh! Still, sitcom’s loss was The X-Men’s gain. Memorable moment: Their Eurovision entry song. Such a pisstake! |
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30th November 2016, 08:05 PM
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#35
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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34. THE NEW STATESMAN (1987-94)
This rarity (an ITV British series that I actually rate) rested on two main attractions: The brilliant Rik Mayall as a slimy, unscrupulous, lascivious Tory MP in Thatcher’s Britain, and fabulous biting satire on the British Government (from Laurence Marks and Maurice Gran), and to a lesser extent all of those on the edges and manipulations of British politics. That Rik Mayall, as Alan B’Stard, was at his best, was a bonus - a sort of less manic version of his Rik from the The Young Ones, but one who had ambitions of power and money, perfect for 80’s UK and it’s Yuppy privatisation middle-class obsessions. The scripts were sharp, the plots increasingly ludicrous; starting from B’Stard’s arms sales, his large majority after having his car brake lines cut, using pornography for blackmail, getting shot, nuclear waste dumping for profit, offshore banking, BDSM in brothels, getting poor voters to agree to lose the right to vote for tax exemption, underage girls for sex, slavery, nazis, cocaine and US politics, attempted murder, capital punishment returning, the end of North Sea Oil, animal testing activists, KGB collaborations to restore Cold War budgets, Siberian Prison, EU blackmailing using his wife as prostitute, adolph Hitler’s penis, charity scams, Robert Maxwell spending time dead for tax purposes, and ending on B’Stard manipulating events to cause a vote to leave the EU, ending Trade Unions, and heading a new right-wing party which sweeps to power using the French to drum up anti-foreigner fever, only to find that he can’t be Prime Minister and in power after all. In short, it’s predicted every sordid headline in British politics for the next 30 years, exposed the ruling classes for what they are, and got many a laugh along the way, including at the expense of the inbred stupid titled rich, played beautifully by Michael Troughton (son of Doctor Who Patrick Troughton). The show ended in 1994, but remains just as relevant and needs repeating. Never as cosy and gentle as Yes Minister, it’s setting was too broad and biting for that, it was also more farcical than political shows that followed, such as The Thick Of It, and remains my fave political-based show. Rik Mayall brought the cast back together in 2006 and 2007 for a stage show touring version that had New Labour as the backdrop. I saw it and it was fab, and Rik was a legend. Much missed. Comic Relief No. 10 Special.. |
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1st December 2016, 08:56 AM
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#36
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,672 User: 3,272
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The New Statesman would also be a rare ITV entry in my list (if I was ever so self-indulgent as to do one
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1st December 2016, 12:56 PM
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#37
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Dec 1 2016, 08:56 AM) The New Statesman would also be a rare ITV entry in my list (if I was ever so self-indulgent as to do one )goodo, and self-indulgent is my middle name (Actually my middle name's the title of a 1972 UK Number One, but I won't quibble) Yes that's right "Metal Guru"
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27th December 2016, 04:34 PM
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#38
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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33. GET SMART (1965-70)
Smack in the middle of the James-Bond-inspired superspy surge came this fabulous parody of the genre. Starring stand-up Don Adams as Agent 86 (Max Smart) and Barbara Feldon as Agent 99, the show had catch-phrases galore and was hugely successful, including spin-off movies and a good remake movie in 2008. The secret of it's success? Mel Brooks (along with Buck Henry) and the scripts, which were witty, childish, popculture parodying, a bit of romance, a marvellous human-looking robot (Hymie), who took every instruction literally, and an oh-so-cool modern groove that adults and kids loved. They did a series of novel adaptations of many episodes, and I bought them all in the early 70's, nostalgic for the cult TV show that was now off the air, but a real fave. The books, if anything, were better than the TV episodes, very funny and a little more depth (in a shallow way). Quotable, award-winning, and in Don Adams an OTT bumbling, inept, yet successful Spy, here's a few lines and guest stars: "I ASKED you not to tell me that!" (after someone had just told him that) "Would you believe...?" (after Max invariably was trying to make outlandish excuses on being captured by KAOS agents) The Cone Of Silence (a plastic bowl lowered over the Chief's desk for confidential conversations. Sadly Max and the Chief never hear each other properly)' Harry Hoo, guest Hawaiian Private Eye. "This is Hoo". "Who?" "That's what I said, Hoo" Cue Abbott & Costello routines. Don Rickles, legendary comic guest star (still going and on twitter in his 90's) Milton Berle, huge TV legend of the 50's and 60's Ernest Borgnine, Carol Burnett, James Caan, Bob Hope (!!!), Leonard Nimoy, Vincent Price, and many many more Mel Brooks went off to movie success mid-series, leaving Buck Henry to keep the fight up against the network execs trying to bland out the premise and show, as they will always tend to try to do, not having a clue why comedy works and all. Max and 99 (we never did get her name) eventually marry and have kids, but she made history being the first American working sitcom mom, still a spy. Worst thing about the show? That annoying 60's sitcom staple, canned laughter. It would work much better without.... |
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27th December 2016, 08:19 PM
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#39
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Infamy Infamy they all got it in for me
Joined: 5 March 2006
Posts: 129,134 User: 2
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Wasn't there a movie version of Get Smart, or did I dream it.
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27th December 2016, 08:36 PM
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#40
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,829 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(Mart!n @ Dec 27 2016, 08:19 PM) Wasn't there a movie version of Get Smart, or did I dream it. Yes, it was pretty good, 2008, they got the perfect actor to do Max Smart - Steve Carrell - and had Anne Hathaway as Agent 99. Dwayne Johnson, Alan Arkin, James Caan, Terence Stamp, Bill Murray, and Patrick Warburton perfectly cast as Hymie the robot. I loved it, and I got the complete TV box set finally released on DVD after waiting years in vain for anything to come out on video or DVD 
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