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 OPINION POLLS 2017, A whole new world |
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 6th August 2018, 09:42 AM
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#1221
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 Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364 
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Aug 6 2018, 10:22 AM)  Low conviction rates have nothing to do with not having a “harsh” justice system. Victims of sexual assault are put off reporting offences through fear they won’t be believed or through fear of repercussions. Much of the time there is a lack of physical evidence which reduces it to the word of the alleged victim vs the word of the alleged accused and the willingness of the court to believe the alleged victim. Yes, that was the factor I was hinting at. |
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6th August 2018, 01:57 PM
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#1222
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 6 2018, 10:16 AM) The main problem is the low overall conviction rate of rapists, surely? All I can say to that, is that no-one has ever asked *me* to take part in such a survey...  I haven't taken part in such a survey either but that doesn't make it any less valid. The point is that people are basing their "we need tougher sentencing" views on a false premise. |
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6th August 2018, 02:34 PM
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#1223
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Aug 6 2018, 02:57 PM) I haven't taken part in such a survey either but that doesn't make it any less valid. The point is that people are basing their "we need tougher sentencing" views on a false premise. Would 'false premise' mean 'Daily Mail editorial' in this context? 
This post has been edited by vidcapper: 6th August 2018, 02:36 PM |
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7th August 2018, 12:17 PM
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#1224
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 BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 6 2018, 03:34 PM) Would 'false premise' mean 'Daily Mail editorial' in this context? No, just general ignorance, I would guess. I was asked to take part in a phone poll of many issues last week. I asked how long it would take, they said 30 minutes, so I said nah! I'm guessing polls get skewed by fragile lonely old people desperate to talk to someone on the phone and everyone else being too busy....... |
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7th August 2018, 02:17 PM
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#1225
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Aug 7 2018, 01:17 PM) No, just general ignorance, I would guess. I was asked to take part in a phone poll of many issues last week. I asked how long it would take, they said 30 minutes, so I said nah! I'm guessing polls get skewed by fragile lonely old people desperate to talk to someone on the phone and everyone else being too busy....... What % of people even have/use landlines nowadays, anyway? This post has been edited by vidcapper: 7th August 2018, 02:17 PM |
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7th August 2018, 02:39 PM
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#1226
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 April 2007
Posts: 36,679 User: 3,272
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 6 2018, 03:34 PM) Would 'false premise' mean 'Daily Mail editorial' in this context? No, I mean "false" as in not true. We can do without any Trumpian rewriting of the dictionary here. |
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7th August 2018, 03:30 PM
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#1227
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Aug 7 2018, 03:39 PM) No, I mean "false" as in not true. We can do without any Trumpian rewriting of the dictionary here. What I really don't understand is why almost everyone here is so resistant to punishing criminals more harshly - at least those who refuse to be rehabilitated? 
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7th August 2018, 04:03 PM
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#1228
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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Because the law favours the rich x
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8th August 2018, 05:37 AM
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#1229
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Bilbo Ballbaggin @ Aug 7 2018, 05:03 PM) Because the law favours the rich x non sequitur - the rich have more to lose than the poor, so they should be keener on harsher punishments... |
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8th August 2018, 10:00 AM
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#1230
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 8 2018, 06:37 AM) non sequitur - the rich have more to lose than the poor, so they should be keener on harsher punishments... Nope, not a non sequitur, it is the BASIS OF HOW THE LAW WORKS!! But as long as vidcapper gets to use some fancy words eh! |
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8th August 2018, 11:16 AM
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#1231
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 7 2018, 04:30 PM) What I really don't understand is why almost everyone here is so resistant to punishing criminals more harshly - at least those who refuse to be rehabilitated? QUOTE(Bilbo Ballbaggin @ Aug 8 2018, 11:00 AM) Nope, not a non sequitur, it is the BASIS OF HOW THE LAW WORKS!! But as long as vidcapper gets to use some fancy words eh! We seem to have drifted away from my original point, above. What on earth does person's money have to do with their attitudes on the punishment of criminals? |
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8th August 2018, 12:07 PM
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#1232
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 8 2018, 12:16 PM) We seem to have drifted away from my original point, above. What on earth does person's money have to do with their attitudes on the punishment of criminals? Because rich folk who embezzle millions and millions get away with repaying it, or a minor sentence, and someone who's got no money & homeless and steals some food goes to prison. Sentences should be based on amounts stolen. 1 month in prison per thousand pounds with a maximum sentence of 10 or 20 years, dont really care which as long as no time off for good behaviour. That should sort rich crooks or big crooks out and clear out half of Parliament..... |
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8th August 2018, 12:10 PM
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#1233
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Aug 8 2018, 01:07 PM) Because rich folk who embezzle millions and millions get away with repaying it, or a minor sentence, and someone who's got no money & homeless and steals some food goes to prison. Sentences should be based on amounts stolen. 1 month in prison per thousand pounds with a maximum sentence of 10 or 20 years, dont really care which as long as no time off for good behaviour. That should sort rich crooks or big crooks out and clear out half of Parliament..... This. Plus bail. Plus being able to buy the best lawyers. |
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8th August 2018, 01:18 PM
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#1234
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Aug 8 2018, 01:07 PM) Because rich folk who embezzle millions and millions get away with repaying it, or a minor sentence, and someone who's got no money & homeless and steals some food goes to prison. Sentences should be based on amounts stolen. 1 month in prison per thousand pounds with a maximum sentence of 10 or 20 years, dont really care which as long as no time off for good behaviour. That should sort rich crooks or big crooks out and clear out half of Parliament..... It's not just about amount of money, though - what about the psychological effect on the victims? What about addicts who steal to feed their habit, rather than to avoid starving? |
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8th August 2018, 02:02 PM
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#1235
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 8 2018, 02:18 PM) It's not just about amount of money, though - what about the psychological effect on the victims? What about addicts who steal to feed their habit, rather than to avoid starving? Addiction should not be a crime. What they need is rehabilitation, not punishment to perpetuate the circle! |
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8th August 2018, 02:11 PM
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#1236
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,117 User: 18,639
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Rumours flying of an early election
Mad May has learnt precisely NOWT  She is hoping this anti-semitism smear campaign will be enough, but nope. If the fake polls had Tories winning 90% of the seats last time, and the North East loooooool, then imagine how much more of a gain and bump Labour will have during THIS campaign! |
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9th August 2018, 05:32 AM
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#1237
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Bilbo Ballbaggin @ Aug 8 2018, 03:02 PM) Addiction should not be a crime. What they need is rehabilitation, not punishment to perpetuate the circle! Oh, I agree - but what if they either refuse rehab, or it fails, and they turn back to crime? We can't just let them continue their crime spree, just because we may feel sympathy for their condition... |
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9th August 2018, 05:41 AM
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#1238
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Paul Hyett
Joined: 4 April 2006
Posts: 25,346 User: 364
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QUOTE(Bilbo Ballbaggin @ Aug 8 2018, 03:11 PM) Rumours flying of an early election Mad May has learnt precisely NOWT She is hoping this anti-semitism smear campaign will be enough, but nope. If the fake polls had Tories winning 90% of the seats last time, and the North East loooooool, then imagine how much more of a gain and bump Labour will have during THIS campaign! It's inconceivable that the Tories would run such a bad campaign again, and they certainly wouldn't be complacent this time. Personally, I cannot see one happening before 29/3/19, when Brexit becomes legally irreversible - and probably not for a while after that. |
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9th August 2018, 06:56 AM
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#1239
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 18 July 2012
Posts: 22,856 User: 17,376
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 8 2018, 02:18 PM) It's not just about amount of money, though - what about the psychological effect on the victims? What about addicts who steal to feed their habit, rather than to avoid starving? shops dont have psychological effects to deal with. Insurance deals with it. Circumstances can be taken into account - use of violence is a crime in itself. The banking crisis crooks produced worldwide life-changing effects in millions. They got away with it. |
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9th August 2018, 07:10 AM
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#1240
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Queen of Soon
Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 74,092 User: 3,474
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 9 2018, 07:41 AM) It's inconceivable that the Tories would run such a bad campaign again, and they certainly wouldn't be complacent this time. Personally, I cannot see one happening before 29/3/19, when Brexit becomes legally irreversible - and probably not for a while after that. It would not be “legally irreversible”. We would be legally entirely to apply to rejoin the EU again on 30/3/19 |
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