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> Trump, Russians and Corruption, The Golden Years
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Thursday, 07:45 PM
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On the corruption side, FBI are now investigating the NRA for being a funnel for money to Trump's campaign.


I hope they shut that f***ing shit show the f*** down! The collapse of the NRA would pull so much money out of republicans that we might actually get a proper bit of progress on Gun Control in America.
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Popchartfreak
post Thursday, 08:11 PM
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Totally agree.
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Suedehead2
post Thursday, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE(Shia LeMuffQueef @ Jan 18 2018, 07:30 PM) *
HAve you seen the LIES from his doctor now, with Trump GROWING in height at age 70 and with his weight obviously lowered? laugh.gif Incredible and incredibly petty, just like we should expect from Trump.

There's certainly something not right about his claimed height and weight. It's a bit like North Korea's claim that Kim Jong-Un scored eleven holes in one in his first ever round of golf.
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vidcapper
post Friday, 06:45 AM
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QUOTE(5 Silas Frøkner @ Jan 18 2018, 07:45 PM) *
On the corruption side, FBI are now investigating the NRA for being a funnel for money to Trump's campaign.
I hope they shut that f***ing shit show the f*** down! The collapse of the NRA would pull so much money out of republicans that we might actually get a proper bit of progress on Gun Control in America.


There's about as much chance of that, as shutting down capitalism itself. rolleyes.gif

Besides, that wouldn't stop private donations by gun owners. Not to mention the issue of the 2nd Amendment...
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Popchartfreak
post Friday, 07:55 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 19 2018, 06:45 AM) *
There's about as much chance of that, as shutting down capitalism itself. rolleyes.gif

Besides, that wouldn't stop private donations by gun owners. Not to mention the issue of the 2nd Amendment...


There's nothing in the US constitution about having mass-killing weapons of war which weren't invented when it was written. That's just how the NRA choose to interpret it. Given Trump's disregard for the US constitution (and the NRA's acceptance of that) they have already lost any moral argument they may have thought they had. What they are doing is picking and choosing the parts of the constitution that suit their agenda, and the rest of population are just as justified in doing the same once it becomes very clear what has been going on with the Republicans.
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Popchartfreak
post Friday, 09:23 AM
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speaking of not believing in the US constitution, specifically the "all men are created equal" bit, and as Trump heads to the golf course as the US government starts to shut down from inaction by Republicans, here's a tweet with todays Trump latest bit of satanic hatred:

"The President who was spanked with a copy of Forbes by the porn star with whom he had adulterous, unprotected sex 4 months after his 3rd wife gave birth now wants to allow "Christian" doctors and nurses to deny healthcare to LGBT people because they disapprove of that lifestyle."

So, killing people because they are gay is now US policy. That's to add to killing people because they are poor.

Trump is actually evil, official. Not just dumb, racist, hateful. Evil.
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vidcapper
post Friday, 09:51 AM
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Jan 19 2018, 07:55 AM) *
There's nothing in the US constitution about having mass-killing weapons of war which weren't invented when it was written.


That's a red herring, since there was obviously nothing about *not* having them, either. mellow.gif

QUOTE
That's just how the NRA choose to interpret it. Given Trump's disregard for the US constitution (and the NRA's acceptance of that) they have already lost any moral argument they may have thought they had. What they are doing is picking and choosing the parts of the constitution that suit their agenda, and the rest of population are just as justified in doing the same once it becomes very clear what has been going on with the Republicans.


Either way, nothing is going to change, as there is zero chance of getting 34 States to approve the repeal of the 2nd Amendment.

Also, most gun deaths are caused by criminals who are not exactly known for obeying laws, no matter how they are drafted...


This post has been edited by vidcapper: Friday, 09:56 AM
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Soy Adrián
post Friday, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 19 2018, 09:51 AM) *
Also, most gun deaths are caused by criminals who are not exactly known for obeying laws, no matter how they are drafted...

Killing someone with a gun does tend to be a criminal offence, yes.
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Suedehead2
post Friday, 10:29 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 19 2018, 09:51 AM) *
That's a red herring, since there was obviously nothing about *not* having them, either. mellow.gif

It's not a red herring at all. It is a simple fact that the drafters of the amendment did not envisage the type of weapons available today. Therefore, they didn't consider whether the amendment needed to be worded differently.

Of course, NRA types also ignore the opening words of tha amendment, viz "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State...". The USA now has a well regulated militia in the armed forces. Arguably, therefore, the individual right to bear arms has been superseded.
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vidcapper
post Friday, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE(Soy Adrián @ Jan 19 2018, 10:14 AM) *
Killing someone with a gun does tend to be a criminal offence, yes.


I meant people who were already criminals, prior to shooting someone - which you surely knew perfectly well.

QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 19 2018, 10:29 AM) *
It's not a red herring at all. It is a simple fact that the drafters of the amendment did not envisage the type of weapons available today. Therefore, they didn't consider whether the amendment needed to be worded differently.


Then how do you explain it not being changed since, despite ample opportunity?


QUOTE
Of course, NRA types also ignore the opening words of tha amendment, viz "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State...". The USA now has a well regulated militia in the armed forces. Arguably, therefore, the individual right to bear arms has been superseded.


And AIUI that very argument has been put before the US Supreme Court, to no avail.
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Suedehead2
post Friday, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 19 2018, 10:51 AM) *
Then how do you explain it not being changed since, despite ample opportunity?
And AIUI that very argument has been put before the US Supreme Court, to no avail.

You seem to thunk changing the US Constitution is simple. It really isn't.

I'm not aware of a Supreme Court ruling on the armed militia bit. O doubt it would get anywhere at the moment as there is a right-wing majority.
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vidcapper
post Friday, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 19 2018, 09:51 AM) *
Either way, nothing is going to change, as there is zero chance of getting 34 States to approve the repeal of the 2nd Amendment.



QUOTE(Suedehead2 @ Jan 19 2018, 10:58 AM) *
You seem to thunk changing the US Constitution is simple. It really isn't.


My post I quote above surely proves I am perfectly well aware of that.
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Soy Adrián
post Friday, 12:01 PM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 19 2018, 10:51 AM) *
I meant people who were already criminals, prior to shooting someone - which you surely knew perfectly well.

I'd be interested to see figures on how many gun deaths were caused by people who were already violent offenders.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Friday, 08:07 PM
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Overlooks the number of suicides by firearms by focusing purely on statistics like those. America has a much higher suicide rate than equivalent nations and a large number of those are committed with firearms. Suicide rates have fallen where gun control has been introduced.

Gun Control is about more than just pure crime statistics.
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Popchartfreak
post Friday, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Jan 19 2018, 10:51 AM) *
I meant people who were already criminals, prior to shooting someone - which you surely knew perfectly well.


Prove that. I was under the impression that most deaths were relation-related or at least the victims were known to the killers.

More Americans were killed by toddlers in 2017 than by terrorists.

I believe the original point was for "more sensible" gun control, not "an end to". That is well within the constitution as each state has it's own laws.
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5 Silas Frøkner
post Friday, 09:38 PM
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It's unrealistic to think that the US will have UK style gun control. But the NRA is blocking some really sensible moves like compulsory background checks, closing the gun show loop hole, waiting periods and removing high capacity military weapons from general sale. Moves that are well supported amongst both the American populous and among American gun owners.
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Shia LeMuffQueef
post Friday, 09:39 PM
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What does the NRA get out of challenging gun free school zones etc? Doesn't make sense.
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