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 Victims of their own brilliance? |
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 11th February 2015, 05:43 PM
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#1
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 Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872 
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I was thinking just now about The Wachowski brothers and how they began brilliantly but have failed to keep that alive in all subsequent efforts. Then I thought maybe a thread on others might be interesting.
So which directors have started or broken through with a great movie and been disappointing since? For me- The Wachowski Brothers - The Matrix is their only properly good film George Lucas - Star Wars: A New Hope, American Graffiti and that's it M. Night Shyamalam - Sixth Sense, Unbreakable and diminishing returns since Tony Kaye - American History X Daniel Myrick and Eduardo Sanchez - Blair Witch Project Michael Lehman - Heathers Oliver Stone - Platoon, Born On 4th July, Salvador, Wall Street and nothing good since mid 90s James Cameron - Made loads of money but not a truly decent film since True Lies Ridley Scott - The man who gave us The Duellists, Alien and Blade Runner for his first three films (in 5 years) has been incredibly up and down since Thelma And Louise in 1991. For every Gladiator or Black Hawk Down there's a G.I. Jane or an Exodus: Gods And Kings. The jury's still out on Prometheus. They're my most notable picks. What are yours? |
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12th February 2015, 09:53 AM
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#2
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Poet and Storyteller
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 6,753 User: 166
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Kevin Smith - Clerks was a landmark bit of cinema which he's never quite managed to match although Chasing Amy comes fairly close after he was forced back a bit after the initial lack of success for Mallrats. The bigger the budget he's given, the worse he seems to get on.
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12th February 2015, 10:38 AM
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#3
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JanWasRobbed
Joined: 20 February 2009
Posts: 8,229 User: 8,335
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Can't really take your post seriously when you think that Titanic and Avatar are not "truly decent" or whatever. Let alone that you think True Lies is better than the both of them.
I actually think they've all followed up with great films. So what if they weren't as popular or critically acclaimed? M. Night Shyamalam's 'Signs', Tony Kaye's 'Detachment' and Ridley Scott's 'Robin Hood' are some of my all time favourites actually. |
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12th February 2015, 11:17 AM
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#4
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Poet and Storyteller
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 6,753 User: 166
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QUOTE(♡ Heezus Froot ♡ @ Feb 12 2015, 10:38 AM)  Can't really take your post seriously when you think that Titanic and Avatar are not "truly decent" Popular, ground-breaking in terms of SFX, but particularly good films? |
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12th February 2015, 01:05 PM
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#5
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 escape in the taste of summerrrrrr
Joined: 8 August 2009
Posts: 27,310 User: 9,403
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are they not just the wachowski siblings now?
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12th February 2015, 06:45 PM
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#6
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Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872
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QUOTE(♡ Heezus Froot ♡ @ Feb 12 2015, 10:38 AM) Can't really take your post seriously when you think that Titanic and Avatar are not "truly decent" or whatever. Let alone that you think True Lies is better than the both of them. I actually think they've all followed up with great films. So what if they weren't as popular or critically acclaimed? M. Night Shyamalam's 'Signs', Tony Kaye's 'Detachment' and Ridley Scott's 'Robin Hood' are some of my all time favourites actually. Basically what Richie said in response, but to elaborate. Titanic is a (bad) 3 hour love story set around the famous sinking. I'll grant that last half hour is spectacular but just isn't enough to lift the film up to what it could have been. I can't fault the sets or the production values but the script, acting, plot etc are all poor. I've seen the ending about 4 times but have not been able to sit through the first 3 hours in one go since the first time. Avatar is basically a really bad remake of Dances With Wolves but without the brilliance of said film's acting, directing, script and sheer beauty. It's like watching a video game. Signs I'll admit I'm quite fond of but it is really stupid when you think about it - for example, an alien race that has a fatal weakness to water is not only completely unfounded scientifically but then they decide to invade a planet that is 2/3s water. They're smart enough for interstellar travel but haven't really thought it through have they? Detachment is ok but falls short of its potential and that of the director's. Robin Hood is a bit too muddled, joyless and lacking in direction that it really is difficult to rate as among Scott's best work. Don't get me wrong, if you enjoy the films then great - I LOVE Starship Troopers. It's among my all time favourite films but being honest, it is a pretty average piece of film-making. The script is poor, the acting is dire and the plot is stupid... But it is so much fun. However, I'd say it's not among Verhoeven's best work and this is what I'm getting at in this thread. To look objectively. Popularity has nothing to do with it although - The Phantom Menace was popular, Transformers films are popular but they'd never be classed as great films. I'll accept the suggestion that critical acclaim tends to reflect a broad consensus of a film being great - if 75% of critics say a film is good then it's fair to say it probably is. The general public however seem less interested in film as art or creative endeavour (especially since Star Wars dumbed everything down in 1977) and more interested in big flashy visuals, pretty actors, simple stories and often involving blowing stuff up. Anyway, I agree Kevin Smith is a good example |
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12th February 2015, 06:47 PM
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#7
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Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872
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QUOTE(✖ ketalina ✖ @ Feb 12 2015, 01:05 PM) are they not just the wachowski siblings now? Fair point. I actually forgot all about that. |
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12th February 2015, 06:50 PM
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#8
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It's a cruel summer.
Joined: 26 May 2014
Posts: 35,256 User: 20,947 
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QUOTE(richie @ Feb 12 2015, 11:17 AM) Popular, ground-breaking in terms of SFX, but particularly good films? Titanic is one of the best films ever 
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15th February 2015, 09:17 PM
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#9
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 14 June 2006
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Anyone thinking that the Wachowski siblings' only decent films are The Matrix should to be shot. Cloud Atlas never ceases to amaze me
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16th February 2015, 05:42 PM
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#10
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Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872
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Only decent film. The 1st is great but the 2nd and 3rd ones are ok and nothing more.
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19th February 2015, 08:52 AM
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#11
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Poet and Storyteller
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 6,753 User: 166
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QUOTE(Frank! @ Feb 15 2015, 09:17 PM) Anyone thinking that the Wachowski siblings' only decent films are The Matrix should to be shot. Cloud Atlas never ceases to amaze me The original Matrix film was watchable but the second was one of the worst things I have ever seen in my life. I haven't seen anything since. |
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23rd February 2015, 12:46 PM
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#12
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We're all Glitter and Tears in the Moonlight...
Joined: 24 September 2013
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Honestly found Avatar overrated and boring, the effects were amazing and beautiful to look at, but the film itself is dull.
M. Night Shyamalan = I definitely agree he messed it up for himself after that terrible "Lady In The Water" which ruined his career and everything after Unbreakable was truly awful. Although I did enjoy Sixth Sense which was probably the last time Bruce Willis turned in a decent performance. Signs was terrible and stupid, The Village was a slap in the face and don't get me started on The Happening, where infact nothing happens. |
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23rd February 2015, 03:55 PM
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#13
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 4 March 2010
Posts: 3,526 User: 10,742
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I think that "Avatar' is one of the greatest movies ever! Nobody can touch James Cameron. This man is a living legend! I also loved "Titanic' which I found it a great movie. I couldn't help but wonder why a love story has to be a bad movie..All the haters of Titanic say the same phrase (a love story). "Cloud Atlas" is one of the most underrated movies of the last decade.
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23rd February 2015, 04:37 PM
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#14
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Mansonette
Joined: 3 November 2009
Posts: 6,931 User: 9,872
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Love stories don't have to be a bad thing - Gone With The Wind is a fantastic movie, as are Casablanca, Brief Encounter and Brokeback Mountain. Titanic for me is poor in this department and whilst that wouldn't be so detrimental in a 90 minute/2 hour film at over 3 hours long it drags the whole experience down.
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