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| Albums Chart - Discussion, Does it have a future? |
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 25th August 2020, 10:10 PM
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#21
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 you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530 
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QUOTE(slowdown73 @ Aug 25 2020, 11:08 PM)  There is still a market for albums. The Killers are likely to sell over 50k this week. Yes, album sales are a fraction of what they used to be but record companies are becoming more creative to generate sales. I do wonder whether compilations should now be included in the general album chart again. I don't see any benefit to compilations being included in the main album chart, it's not exactly going to change the situation at hand. |
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26th August 2020, 07:18 PM
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#22
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 Shakin Stevens
Joined: 29 December 2007
Posts: 46,151 User: 5,138 
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The fact that there are so many greatest hits albums is becoming tedious!
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26th August 2020, 07:41 PM
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#23
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my mind is ready for fun
Joined: 28 August 2017
Posts: 10,711 User: 38,591
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In an ideal world I'd suggest something like:
- if you only stream 1 or 2 tracks from the same album consecutively, or perhaps over the course of a day, those count as singles streams for those tracks but not towards the album - whereas if you stream 3 or more tracks from the same album together, whether it's a studio album or greatest hits, those count as album streams but not singles streams for any of those tracks |
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27th August 2020, 02:55 AM
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#24
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530
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re. Mabel not being top 1500 on Apple Music, I find that an odd situation. Mabel's a strong presence and she has been pretty much since Don't Call Me Up came out, I'd be gobsmacked if she wasn't in the top 1500 at all considering some of these are lower down:
1332 -104 LSD - LABRINTH, SIA & DIPLO PRESENT... LSD | 1342 NEW Madison Beer - As She Pleases 1354 -399 ZAYN - Icarus Falls 1435 NEW Akon - Freedom (UK Version) Are more people really actively seeking out an old Akon album than Mabel's recent album with hits you still hear on the radio?  I feel like that's a glitch?(obviously it's still being bolstered a lot by the new singles being tacked on, but equally I don't believe it'd be doing THIS bad without them...) |
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27th August 2020, 05:04 AM
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#25
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Pronouns: He/Him
Joined: 28 July 2013 Posts: 5,076 User: 19,614
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I've wondered the same thing. Apple's chart on kworb has seemed notoriously glitchy, like with "Someone You Loved" spending months at roughly tenfold its correct position for seemingly no reason, and (at least on the Australian one), "Blinding Lights" constantly flickering between top 10 and top 40. Do we even know the exact mechanics of how their album chart even works?
Also do we want a chart where Baby Lullaby Academy is permanently in the top 40 instead? |
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27th August 2020, 07:33 AM
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#26
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,603 User: 177
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I wouldn’t be surprised if hardly anyone is buying Mabel’s album. To me, she doesn’t scream an artist I want to here more from.
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27th August 2020, 07:57 AM
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#27
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 13 November 2015
Posts: 33,254 User: 22,665
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another thing the album charts is getting wrong is indie albums
we see these huge drops on week 2 but if you look at the real album streaming chart without playlist counts those albums do pretty well on week 2 for instance I remember The Streets album was top 20 on week 2, but ended up at like #70 or something on the official chart cos their songs are not on playlists and the real album streams are under-counted if counted properly indie albums wouldn't have those crazy 2nd week falls and it's not even indie artists only, look at Gaga, she was like #70-ish on the official streaming album chart but if you look at the real album streaming chart she's still top 20 but she has just the 1 song (Rain on me) on playlists, not 11 like Mabel, so playlists are not helping her album sales and she's far lower than she should |
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27th August 2020, 09:14 AM
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#28
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 is in hibernation
Joined: 24 August 2014
Posts: 11,385 User: 21,161
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QUOTE(JosephStyles @ Aug 27 2020, 03:55 AM) re. Mabel not being top 1500 on Apple Music, I find that an odd situation. Mabel's a strong presence and she has been pretty much since Don't Call Me Up came out, I'd be gobsmacked if she wasn't in the top 1500 at all considering some of these are lower down: 1332 -104 LSD - LABRINTH, SIA & DIPLO PRESENT... LSD | 1342 NEW Madison Beer - As She Pleases 1354 -399 ZAYN - Icarus Falls 1435 NEW Akon - Freedom (UK Version) Are more people really actively seeking out an old Akon album than Mabel's recent album with hits you still hear on the radio? I feel like that's a glitch?(obviously it's still being bolstered a lot by the new singles being tacked on, but equally I don't believe it'd be doing THIS bad without them...) I think it’s a Kworb problem. High Expectations is #84 on the pop albums chart on Apple Music. 5SOS are #85 and are at #484 in the overall chart, so Mabel’s probably about there. Top 1500 or not, going from below #400 to #15 is hardly representative  That pop albums streaming chart is really interesting, wasn’t expecting to see Lily Allen’s It’s Not Me album up there. Can that be top 100 plz 
This post has been edited by Andrew.: 27th August 2020, 09:16 AM |
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27th August 2020, 10:17 AM
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#29
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wayback machine gif rescuer
Joined: 3 April 2013
Posts: 3,771 User: 18,564
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QUOTE(JosephStyles @ Aug 27 2020, 12:55 PM) re. Mabel not being top 1500 on Apple Music, I find that an odd situation. Mabel's a strong presence and she has been pretty much since Don't Call Me Up came out, I'd be gobsmacked if she wasn't in the top 1500 at all considering some of these are lower down: I have no idea how that chart works, but could it be to do with counting exactly which album a track is played from?1332 -104 LSD - LABRINTH, SIA & DIPLO PRESENT... LSD | 1342 NEW Madison Beer - As She Pleases 1354 -399 ZAYN - Icarus Falls 1435 NEW Akon - Freedom (UK Version) Are more people really actively seeking out an old Akon album than Mabel's recent album with hits you still hear on the radio? I feel like that's a glitch?(obviously it's still being bolstered a lot by the new singles being tacked on, but equally I don't believe it'd be doing THIS bad without them...) For example, on Spotify, all of LSD's singles and all the ZAYN singles from that album were deleted long ago, so all plays of those songs would be from the albums. Even if you'd added, say, 'Sour Diesel' (#promo) to a playlist when it was a single and go to play it now, it plays it from the album (as the single is gone, but it's the same track so it picks a version that is available). It's not an obvious difference since the audio is identical, but you do see the album cover instead of the single cover. On the other hand, almost all of Mabel's singles are individually available (at least in Australia). If I search 'Boyfriend', the single version is the first result (and the album version is buried below all the remixes). If I search 'Don't Call Me Up', the mixtape and single versions are first and the album version is much lower (probably not helped by them repeatedly deleting and re-uploading it to add new tracks). If I search 'West Ten', it doesn't even have an album version (it's on the album but not uploaded as a track on it; if I play it from the album, it shows the single cover). So whether you search one of her singles and click on the first result that comes up, or listen to a playlist that has the single version, the play would probably come from the single. Incidentally, this is why I feel the idea of assigning streams to which album they were played from wouldn't work - because what percentage of plays come from someone (a) searching the track and (b) deciding which version to play (out of single/album/compilation/etc versions that are all identical audio-wise) for any reason other than which comes up first? I do but I'm probably in the 0.01%. It would put a lot of stock into how Spotify's search algorithm orders results, but even more so, into meaningless differences like whether a track on a playlist (personal or curated) is the single or album version, or whether an artist's singles get deleted or not. (Theoretically, if they were somehow that desperate, Elton/Queen/etc could even delete the album versions of their hits so all plays would be fed to the compilations - it's rare but there are occasionally cases like that; for example, although the Stereophonics album that includes 'Dakota' is on Spotify here, the song is only uploaded as part of their GH, so if I click play on it from the album, it gets it from the GH.) |
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27th August 2020, 09:04 PM
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#30
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Yes, it's me.
Joined: 4 November 2009
Posts: 19,813 User: 9,885
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QUOTE(JosephStyles @ Aug 25 2020, 06:20 PM) obviously it's clear that the compilations from Bob Marley, Fleetwood Mac, Queen, ABBA, Elton, etc are unlikely to ever leave the album chart now because their music is timeless and always popular, but does it really reflect the most popular albums of the week? If their albums are being played more that other albums then they are more popular albums that week. |
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27th August 2020, 09:06 PM
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#31
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you never forget your first time...
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 19 April 2011 Posts: 121,693 User: 13,530
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QUOTE(Colm @ Aug 27 2020, 10:04 PM) If their albums are being played more that other albums then they are more popular albums that week. But are their greatest hits albums really more popular than other albums, just because if you stream Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, it will count to both its studio album + a greatest hits? This is the issue people are having. |
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27th August 2020, 09:11 PM
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#32
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Yes, it's me.
Joined: 4 November 2009
Posts: 19,813 User: 9,885
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QUOTE(JosephStyles @ Aug 27 2020, 10:06 PM) But are their greatest hits albums really more popular than other albums, just because if you stream Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, it will count to both its studio album + a greatest hits? This is the issue people are having. I see. Sorry. |
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27th August 2020, 09:34 PM
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#33
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 26 July 2014
Posts: 476 User: 21,101
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QUOTE(JosephStyles @ Aug 27 2020, 10:06 PM) But are their greatest hits albums really more popular than other albums, just because if you stream Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, it will count to both its studio album + a greatest hits? This is the issue people are having. It seems weird that a sale can count towards both the Greatest Hits collection and the studio album...but I think the album format is quickly dying, so if they didn't do that, we'd have albums selling 1000 copies and making the top 40. Even with the current format, we had an album that sold 1,625 copies and made #49 just last week. They are trying to keep the album chart interesting, but I presume the thinking is "why would anyone care about the album charts if you can get a top 40 with so few sales?" - although we are heading towards that reality either way. |
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28th August 2020, 06:33 PM
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#34
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 ⬛
Joined: 17 February 2011
Posts: 56,211 User: 13,007
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What Mabel is doing with her
 Surely the rule should be at least 50% of the album's contents need to have been streamed in order for the sale points to count (with maybe said points offered for less streams to account for that). What an absolute joke!And then popular songs counting for sales for two or more albums is an even bigger mess. This has to be fixed soon surely!? 
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28th August 2020, 07:33 PM
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#35
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 25 March 2007
Posts: 21,305 User: 3,155
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Aug 27 2020, 08:33 AM) I wouldn’t be surprised if hardly anyone is buying Mabel’s album. To me, she doesn’t scream an artist I want to here more from. Totally this! I love her singles and have streamed them but have zero interest in her album and haven’t listened to it since it was released. |
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28th August 2020, 11:34 PM
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#36
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 "Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,452 User: 3,217
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Mabel's sales this week...
3,400 streaming [97.48%] (#7 in streaming chart) 79 physicals [2.26%] (n/a in physical chart) 9 downloads [0.26%] (n/a in download chart) = 3,488 overall (#12 in album chart) I think that continually adding the latest hits to a pre-existing album is pretty iffy, I dislike it! Evidently it's allowed, so I don't blame labels for exploiting this rule... but I think there should at least be a limit to the number of times this can be done. Mabel's album has absolutely become a glorified playlist at this point. The Top 12 songs that count towards the methodology of her streaming units must all be singles or promo singles?* Therefore it doesn't matter anymore how little her actual album tracks are being played. To me it makes its presence so high up in the album chart feel very artificial. * Finders Keepers, My Lover, Fine Line, Cigarette, Ring Ring, Don't Call Me Up, Mad Love, OK (Anxiety Anthem), God Is a Dancer, Boyfriend, West Ten, Tick Tock |
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29th August 2020, 06:38 AM
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#37
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my mind is ready for fun
Joined: 28 August 2017
Posts: 10,711 User: 38,591
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Boyfriend is still on Spotify Hot Hits UK (8 tracks below Tick Tock), so Mabel currently has 3 'album tracks' there.
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29th August 2020, 08:55 AM
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#38
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Radical Pink Troll
Joined: 11 March 2006
Posts: 26,603 User: 177
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QUOTE(TomJ1991 @ Aug 27 2020, 10:34 PM) It seems weird that a sale can count towards both the Greatest Hits collection and the studio album...but I think the album format is quickly dying, so if they didn't do that, we'd have albums selling 1000 copies and making the top 40. Even with the current format, we had an album that sold 1,625 copies and made #49 just last week. They are trying to keep the album chart interesting, but I presume the thinking is "why would anyone care about the album charts if you can get a top 40 with so few sales?" - although we are heading towards that reality either way. I think you’re seriously overestimating how many people will care about poor sales. Most people don’t even know the album chart let alone the sales. And so what if sales get really low? The current streaming rules aren’t making the charts more interesting, going in the opposite direction in fact. Newer albums by artists trying to break out aren’t getting any exposure because if an average person checked the charts to see what’s out, they just see Elton John, Fleetwood Mac, Eminem, Oasis, Queen and bizarrely Mabel. Other artists are in one week out the other because their songs are not all over playlists. Jack Garratt’s album, my favourite of the year so far, had one week only in the top 100 at no.8. Albums like this aren’t even getting a chance. I can never understand the want for an artificial chart just so you feel like the market is doing ok. The album format appears to be dying and this is a massive shame. |
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29th August 2020, 10:05 AM
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#39
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wayback machine gif rescuer
Joined: 3 April 2013
Posts: 3,771 User: 18,564
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QUOTE(Jay* @ Aug 29 2020, 09:34 AM) Mabel's album has absolutely become a glorified playlist at this point. The Top 12 songs that count towards the methodology of her streaming units must all be singles or promo singles?* Therefore it doesn't matter anymore how little her actual album tracks are being played. To me it makes its presence so high up in the album chart feel very artificial. Yep, this is quite likely now that there are 11 singles and 2 sort-of-promo-singles. The gulf in Spotify playcounts between the singles and album tracks is huge (presented in tracklist order because it's most striking this way):* Finders Keepers, My Lover, Fine Line, Cigarette, Ring Ring, Don't Call Me Up, Mad Love, OK (Anxiety Anthem), God Is a Dancer, Boyfriend, West Ten, Tick Tock 004,237,822 - Tick Tock (with Clean Bandit ft. 24kGoldn) 022,238,988 - West Ten (with AJ Tracey) 001,005,730 - High Expectations - Intro 016,832,339 - Bad Behaviour 590,923,121 - Don't Call Me Up 001,928,472 - FML 001,751,987 - We Don't Say... 004,625,169 - Selfish Love (with Kamille) 000,922,202 - Lucky - Interlude 205,232,719 - Mad Love 001,558,205 - Trouble 001,774,797 - Put Your Name On It 000,831,874 - Stckhlm Syndrome - Interlude 033,537,898 - OK (Anxiety Anthem) 000,936,223 - I Belong To Me 000,695,865 - High Expectations - Outro 061,895,863 - Boyfriend 082,544,754 - Finders Keepers (feat. Kojo Funds) 048,558,558 - Fine Line (with Not3s) 063,373,687 - My Lover (with Not3s) 102,623,848 - Ring Ring (with Jax Jones feat. Rich The Kid) 049,713,160 - Cigarette (with RAYE & Stefflon Don) 001,024,100 - Not Sayin' 116,204,544 - God Is A Dancer (Tiësto & Mabel) And even though some of those old hits aren't getting a lot of plays anymore, they're still easily outdoing the album tracks. These are their plays in the last 4 weeks (worldwide of course, which may be more slanted towards the singles than the UK alone would be, but still): 14,055,364 - Don't Call Me Up 10,801,633 - West Ten (with AJ Tracey) 5,918,652 - Boyfriend 5,076,838 - God Is A Dancer (Tiësto & Mabel) 4,913,889 - Mad Love 4,237,822 - Tick Tock (with Clean Bandit ft. 24kGoldn) 924,111 - Ring Ring (with Jax Jones feat. Rich The Kid) 839,290 - OK (Anxiety Anthem) 724,623 - Finders Keepers (feat. Kojo Funds) 662,813 - My Lover (with Not3s) 545,494 - Cigarette (with RAYE & Stefflon Don) 397,183 - Fine Line (with Not3s) 351,801 - Bad Behaviour 140,441 - Selfish Love (with Kamille) 56,289 - Put Your Name On It 42,191 - Trouble 38,684 - Not Sayin' 37,854 - FML 34,192 - We Don't Say... 22,038 - I Belong To Me 20,547 - High Expectations - Intro 20,219 - Stckhlm Syndrome - Interlude 19,955 - Lucky - Interlude 14,274 - High Expectations - Outro Also on that note, I feel like one of the most outstanding (and fascinating) things is how they don't just insert new singles onto the album; they add them at the start and then move them to the end once they're done. These are the editions of the album I can find on Spotify: 20 tracks: the original standard 14 tracks + 'Finders Keepers', 'Fine Line', 'My Lover', 'Ring Ring' and 'Cigarette' tacked on, and 'Not Sayin'' (I have no idea why this random track is placed there) 21 tracks: 'God Is A Dancer' inserted at track 1 22 tracks: 'Boyfriend' placed as track 1; 'God Is A Dancer' moved to the end of disc 2 23 tracks: 'West Ten' placed as track 1; 'Boyfriend' moved to the start of disc 2 (not even a new non-collab is worth keeping as part of disc 1!) 24 tracks: 'Tick Tock' placed as track 1, but with 'West Ten' kept as track 2 this time because hey it's still in the top 10 |
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29th August 2020, 10:18 AM
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#40
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 ❤️❤️➕🟦
Joined: 3 June 2012
Posts: 22,246 User: 17,160
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The charts have become a joke and artificial anyway so what Mabel is doing just amuses me
What is annoying is that you have to keep deleting and re-adding the album on streaming!! Just had a look there on my Apple Music and it had randomly divided the songs into two albums so for about the 5th I’ve had to delete the whole thing and re-add great to see that OK (Anxiety Anthem) love though 
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