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 How Would You Have Handled The Third Era? |
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 2nd August 2019, 09:36 PM
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#1
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 Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639 
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We all know Forever was quite possibly the worst girl band album of ALL TIME. They recorded it in two or three days. However, they had a pop album planned before that. If you were the manager, how would you have handled the third era?
I'd have had them continue on the pop/ pop-rock route, releasing Woman first, followed by Pain Proof. They were basically over the band at that point, and so I'd have made it TWO discs of eight tracks each. The first disc would have W.O.M.A.N, Goodbye, and Pain Proof, with Pain Proof and Woman tidied up, maybe renamed to Bullet Proof, and released as singles. They'd have three songs already, and would need just another five. They wouldn't even need to be that commercial, as they wouldn't be singles. The other disc would be what they planned with Geri - cover songs, but with a guest on each one. They'd have the Elton John one, the Sisters Are Doing It For Themselves, and We Are Family already, so again, they'd need another five, but covers are far easier - ask Westlife the cover karaoke band! I'd have called the album +1, as in, the special guest on each track, and have had the cover a white background. There would be a globe in the middle, and around it a paper chain of paper figures, like you do in schools, of different colours. They'd then release two covers, after the album launch, which would have launched off the two pop songs. Then Hollier/ LLLTW could be released in 2000 as a final single, advertised as such. Then people would have shown more interest in them, and they'd have had more of a chance of becoming classics. If they wanted Forever still, fine, but perhaps as a limited, website-only release, as a final piece "for the fans". I think it was important to keep the era short and easy for them, but still make it pop, and give it a gimmick. Would you do something similar, or stick with Forever, etc? Also, which of the two planned pop singles would you have used as a lead (technically Goodbye), Geri-less single for a third pop album? I think they're both excellent, but they would have need tidying up a little before release, with WOMAN needing a master, a few different lyrics, and Pain Proof perhaps needing to be called Bullet Proof or something similar. |
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3rd August 2019, 12:56 AM
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#2
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 18 December 2007
Posts: 391 User: 5,073
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Forever may not be the Spice Girls album people wanted but saying it's one of the worst girlband albums of all time is just about the biggest reach I've ever seen!
As a collection of r'n'b/pop tracks it's actually pretty damn solid. Also saying you'd have them continue down a pop-rock route? When did the Spice Girls ever do pop/rock? Never :/ I don't think anything could have saved them from where they ended up. Sadly, the sparkle had worn off and people just moved on. |
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3rd August 2019, 11:38 AM
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#3
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BuzzJack Enthusiast
Joined: 6 September 2017
Posts: 929 User: 39,574
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Forever is awful overall but it wasn't recorded in 2 or 3 days it was recorded over nearly a year in various sessions.
With Forever they were chasing trends and what they thought was popular at that time but it wasn't what the fanbase wanted at all thus alienating most of them. Even now it's barely ever downloaded compared to the others when something significant happens in Spiceworld. It's a dire lifeless record that they didn't even care about and neither did the fans. |
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3rd August 2019, 12:46 PM
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#4
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,081 User: 39,587
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First of all, Forever was NOT recorded in two or three days, it was recorded in well over 1 year at different stages/time periods.
Also, Forever is a gorgeous album. It is not perfect, but it is of great quality and has really good album tracks. It wasnt for many people's tastes but the main issue was the way the girls themselves handled it. They only did ONE WEEK of promo and it was confined to the UK and USA, and then left to die. It was also released at a time when the UK press REALLY hated them, to the point of bullying, which didnt help the girls wanting to continue to promote it. So tehy abandoned it. As Mel C also said, they were quite exhausted with it all by that point and wanted to do other, more fullfilling things. No wonder the audience still doesnt buy it today - no1 remembers that album! As said main times before, they should have released something more pop before going into full R&B mode with Forever. Had they released something in late 1999 that was a mix of pop and r&b - say 8 tracks from Forever and the 4 pop tracks that leaked a few years ago - it would have been still incredibly successful and not as hated as Forever. Now, Pain Proof would have been a good album track, or a Soundtrack single, at best. But I wouldn't have released it as a part of an album campaign. Nor WOMAN tbh (which we cant really judge as we have YET to hear it in full!!). |
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3rd August 2019, 01:04 PM
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#5
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639
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QUOTE(schizo_spice @ Aug 3 2019, 12:38 PM)  Forever is awful overall but it wasn't recorded in 2 or 3 days it was recorded over nearly a year in various sessions. With Forever they were chasing trends and what they thought was popular at that time but it wasn't what the fanbase wanted at all thus alienating most of them. Even now it's barely ever downloaded compared to the others when something significant happens in Spiceworld. It's a dire lifeless record that they didn't even care about and neither did the fans. COMPLETELY AGREED! It's absolutely dire, limp, and lifeless. Darkchild sucked out all the spice and replaced it with boring rnb. They hated the album, the fans hated the album, and one look at the amazon reviews from 2000, describing it as a career killer, show what the fan reaction was. It would honestly be hard to care about this album, and it's no surprise they didn't. I stand by it being the worst girlband album of all time. And yes, but the sessions lasted a couple days each. Hollier/ LLLTW were recorded and written separately, and it's no surprise they were the best. The rest were all scribbled down in a rush as they didn't have enough songs and were recorded in a couple days over a few sessions. They just didn't care. TLC did TLC way better than the Spices did TLC. It was totally inauthentic. WOMAN is one of their best tracks just from the live demo! Pain Proof would have been a great single. What were the other two leaked pop tracks btw? And yes, I meant continue with pop and introduce pop/rock. If they came back with WOMAN and then switched to pop rock, that would have been a massive gimmick that got them attention, plus the +1 cover collaborations! They needed to release a 1999 pop album, even just 8 tracks, plus another collaborations cd like I said, a double album like Back To Basics, to keep going. The spark would fizzle out, especially going onto rnb which NO ONE wanted, but they would have had more success, especially in 1999. Mel C would have been far more interested in a pop rock album than one of lifeless rnb. |
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3rd August 2019, 03:14 PM
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#6
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 "Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,448 User: 3,217
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I think at least Emma appears to really like the album. She cited Let Love Lead the Way and Oxygen as two of her favourite Spice Girls songs, earlier this year. To make check Oxygen might suggest she’s quite familiar with Forever.
I have a vague memory that Mel B (on social media) showed herself purchasing Forever on iTunes, a few years ago. I don’t think I dreamt that up lol. QUOTE And yes, but the sessions lasted a couple days each. Hollier/ LLLTW were recorded and written separately, and it's no surprise they were the best. The rest were all scribbled down in a rush as they didn't have enough songs and were recorded in a couple days over a few sessions. They just didn't care. The length of time spent working on Forever wasn’t an unusually rushed process, quite the opposite actually... overall it apparently took place from August 1999 to July 2000. http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s...t&p=5934767 ^ From my understanding these are the dates that they visited studios to record some vocals. I’m not sure how these dates are known about actually. However they couldn’t have completed writing, production & vocal recording for numerous songs in just a day, I really doubt that.  I don’t think the full time line is known. We just know that at least a year was dedicated to Forever. I think we can assume from Holler that some production work occurred at a later time than August 1999, because it ended up having the year 2000 referenced in it.The one rushed album of their career was Spiceworld, recorded during the filming of the Spiceworld movie. That album at least shows that rushing can actually end up resulting in a great album. Length of time dedicated to creating an album =/= the quality of album. By the way, the four of them were supposedly all on the same page about wanting to go in an R&B direction, there’s never been an indication that Melanie C was ever against that. Her attitude during the promotion of the album came from a place of being over the Spice Girls thing, regardless of musical direction. At some point in 2000 she mentally checked out of the group, she was just going through the motions. I honestly think the album could have been pop/rock and Melanie would have been just as disinterested. |
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3rd August 2019, 03:20 PM
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#7
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639
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You're missing out the fact that they also recorded a pop third album, which would have been under studio time for Forever. The rnb tracks woukd have been jotted down and rushed. Mel B said they realised rhey didn't have enough rnb songs and had to rush to the studio, write and record them, so it's straight from her mouth that it was rushed!
Geri Halliwell was their Gari Barlow. They COULD rush Spiceworld with her around, as she wrote the songs and brought the spice. Without her, they only had Hollier, Woman and Goodbye left. |
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3rd August 2019, 03:24 PM
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#8
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,448 User: 3,217
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They never recorded a third pop album. They had some recording sessions for songs that were pop... in the same month that they recorded R&B tracks. The initial plan was that the album would be a mix of both. The girls / A&R eventually decided to push further in the R&B direction and scrap the British pop songs, and therefore have a full album of R&B. That’s why they went to record more tracks. But again, there’s no evidence of the creation of those tracks necessarily being rushed. We have a date in July that the vocals were recorded... but no indication about length of time on writing lyrics/melodies & production work.
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3rd August 2019, 03:26 PM
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#9
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639
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Then we have to take Mel B's word for it when she said that they wrote them in those same studio sessions! I'll try and find the video.
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3rd August 2019, 03:31 PM
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#10
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639
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Aha!
Here's one: 2 songs from scratch in four days, lyrics, production, everything: |
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3rd August 2019, 03:47 PM
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#11
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,448 User: 3,217
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“Two songs in four days” isn’t quite as extreme as “They recorded [Forever] in two or three days.”
 x
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3rd August 2019, 04:38 PM
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#12
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639
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Well, it's more or less the same thing!
Buw how aboot you, Jay, what would you have done with the third album?? |
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3rd August 2019, 06:15 PM
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#13
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"Jayrusaleminians" - Umi.
Pronouns: he/him
Joined: 4 April 2007 Posts: 41,448 User: 3,217
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I would have made sure it was ready to release in November 1999, with a mix of the pop and R&B tracks recorded! Still launch with Holler as the lead single, which I feel would have come across as more fresh to the public in late 99 compared to late 2000.
Poor Melanie C would have had to have waited to release Northern Star until sometime in 2000 
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3rd August 2019, 06:49 PM
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#14
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639
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So you would abandon the cover versions original idea for it and which of the plodding rnb tracks would you keep?
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3rd August 2019, 06:49 PM
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#15
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BuzzJack Gold Member
Joined: 3 February 2018
Posts: 2,041 User: 64,815
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Interesting topic. I've always been thinking about this over the years. It could have been handled a lot better.
Regardless of the 1999 demos versus the finished 2000 release and what people thought of the quality of the album I would have gone with this. October 1999 - Release of Holler/RBAY November 1999 - Release of the Forever Spice book and album December 1999 - Let Love Lead The Way (maybe a doc or tv special for Xmas - behind the scenes of the tour) January - Feburary 2000 - UK Tour to promote the album March 2000 - Final single release and BRITs performance |
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3rd August 2019, 07:17 PM
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#16
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Buffy/Charmed
Joined: 18 April 2013
Posts: 44,064 User: 18,639
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I think you are all sleeping on WOMAN and Pain Proof as the first tso singles tbh!
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3rd August 2019, 11:36 PM
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#17
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,081 User: 39,587
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QUOTE(Spice Girls Net @ Aug 3 2019, 07:49 PM) Interesting topic. I've always been thinking about this over the years. It could have been handled a lot better. Regardless of the 1999 demos versus the finished 2000 release and what people thought of the quality of the album I would have gone with this. October 1999 - Release of Holler/RBAY November 1999 - Release of the Forever Spice book and album December 1999 - Let Love Lead The Way (maybe a doc or tv special for Xmas - behind the scenes of the tour) January - Feburary 2000 - UK Tour to promote the album March 2000 - Final single release and BRITs performance INJECT THIS INTO MY VEEEIINNNSSS 
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5th August 2019, 02:20 AM
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#18
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BuzzJack Regular
Joined: 25 March 2018
Posts: 395 User: 69,521
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How *should* they have handled Forever's diverging directions? It's a tough one. I actually rather like both the Darkchild AND original pop recordings. Out of the studio demos that leaked, the pop Right Back at Ya, Pain Proof and Give You What You Want are unquestionably worthy of release (A Day in Your Life is a bit sappy for me). At the same time...I think Holler is the strongest material to come out of their 1999/2000 recordings...and Tell Me Why is an obvious single contender. It just sounds like the material belongs to two different groups. They were always great at balancing different styles on a album...but yet, I flat-out can't imagine the light, bubbly pop version of Right Back at Ya on the same album as Holler and Tell Me Why.
So I'll float this out there. Could they have done a double album? One CD with the modern r'n'b tracks...one CD with the pop tracks. Do all the singles as double AA sides. One r'n'b. One pop. Holler/Pain Proof Tell Me Why/Give You What You Want etc. Call the album...Sugar and Spice? Or maybe divide the album up as US...to UK? Beats me. They may have been drug through the dirt by critics by refusing to commit to a sound...but I figure the fans would have been happy. |
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5th August 2019, 04:55 PM
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#19
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BuzzJack Platinum Member
Joined: 7 September 2017
Posts: 5,081 User: 39,587
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A double album of different styles each would be AMAZING for the fans, but personally it always feels a bit weird to do that. Back to Basics was also quite odd, that separation. Why not a full album with all the tracks?
Anyway, I think an album of mixed genres would have been better, personally. They always experimented with different genres and they should have done that with Forever as well. |
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5th August 2019, 06:08 PM
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#20
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BuzzJack Legend
Joined: 11 June 2011
Posts: 23,993 User: 14,031 
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For the third album i would have inline with the sound of the previous 2 albums to keep the fans on board.
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