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> OPINION POLLS 2018-2022, Strong and stable...
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Algernon Monquee...
post Friday, 11:20 AM
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That is bescause we have a mainstream one party state media. The papers and Murdoch set the agenda with the Tories - and the tv, especially BBtory, usually just follows. Once the Tories are in, they do not easily get out. They control the media and create stupid, ministry of truth narratives. Corbyn has been everything from a communist spy to a russian-hat-wearing russia lover to a pet hamster hunter rotf.gif And people like Chris and vidcapper eat it all up!
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vidcapper
post Friday, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Aug 23 2019, 12:08 PM) *
Except this is a LONG TERM major decision. The youth should take point. And they said no to brexshit. Sorry sad.gif Otherwise, we get a situation like ww do now - the oldies are dying off and the polls have already swung away from the original result! Not that 51% or 27% of the population is a major rrsult that has to be carried out anyway.


Has it occurred to you that the generation that voted for Brexit in 2016, were quite likely the same people who voted to endorse our Common Market membership in 1975, but in the intervening years discovered that we had been hoodwinked into joining a political union that they had *not* voted for?
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vidcapper
post Friday, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Aug 23 2019, 12:20 PM) *
That is bescause we have a mainstream one party state media. The papers and Murdoch set the agenda with the Tories - and the tv, especially BBtory, usually just follows. Once the Tories are in, they do not easily get out. They control the media and create stupid, ministry of truth narratives. Corbyn has been everything from a communist spy to a russian-hat-wearing russia lover to a pet hamster hunter rotf.gif And people like Chris and vidcapper eat it all up!


Actions however speak louder than words, and Corbyn has done more than enough on record to show he'd make a terrible PM.
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Algernon Monquee...
post Friday, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 23 2019, 12:27 PM) *
Has it occurred to you that the generation that voted for Brexit in 2016, were quite likely the same people who voted to endorse our Common Market membership in 1975, but in the intervening years discovered that we had been hoodwinked into joining a political union that they had *not* voted for?



Seeing as no one cared about the eu one way or the other,except for the yourh, pre 2015, your hypothesis is completely and DEMONSTRANLY wrong. Look at the stats. People only statted to care once the referendum kicked off and the Tories banged on aboot it. They were hoodwinked alright ... by the one party state media, Bojo's lies and the Frog.
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Algernon Monquee...
post Friday, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 23 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Actions however speak louder than words, and Corbyn has done more than enough on record to show he'd make a terrible PM.


Like what - bring peace? Respect everyone? Not be an Etonian rich priviliged born into power aristocrat intent on punishing everyone who's not rich? I see.
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Steve201
post Friday, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Aug 23 2019, 12:29 PM) *
Actions however speak louder than words, and Corbyn has done more than enough on record to show he'd make a terrible PM.

Please give examples?
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Algernon Monquee...
post Friday, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Aug 23 2019, 01:03 PM) *
Please give examples?


He is a Tory. He sews propaganda seeds and then flees once they've been challenged. They just want to sow doubt snd then let the latest propaganda story do the rest.
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Izzy
post Friday, 12:59 PM
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Re: Jupiter, that is an accurate perception of what Corbyn should be, my main issue with him is given the cartoonish villainy of the Tories he hasn’t quite been the hero we hoped for, which is nothing compared to the bizarre painting the media have of his incompetence (quite obviously because they’d have a lot to lose under a Corbyn premiership and they get to control the narrative).
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vidcapper
post Friday, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Aug 23 2019, 01:03 PM) *
Please give examples?


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...cy-antisemitism

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/07/voting...-its-dangerous/


This post has been edited by vidcapper: Friday, 01:47 PM
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Steve201
post Friday, 02:52 PM
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The whole Anti-Sem issues is of grave concern but there is an element of right wing media hyping it up a lot. Most of the left who spout out A-S nonsense are the idiot fringes and JC has continually opposed rascism in all its forms. He cannot do something about every on line troll who spouts it out in Labours name.

With regards to the second article - give me strength - how dare JC have a different economic and foreign policy point of view to the last 2 generations in the UK. I mean NATO itself nearly got us into a war with Putin over their expansion in Ukraine so I think its too influenced by the USA and CIA!

The same people said these things about SF in Ireland only 25 years ago but hey look the British were talking to the IRA at the same time and look what happens when you talk to marginalised groups - they join the democratic process and Ireland is a much better country for it.


This post has been edited by Steve201: Friday, 02:53 PM
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Algernon Monquee...
post Friday, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE(Steve201 @ Aug 23 2019, 03:52 PM) *
The whole Anti-Sem issues is of grave concern but there is an element of right wing media hyping it up a lot. Most of the left who spout out A-S nonsense are the idiot fringes and JC has continually opposed rascism in all its forms. He cannot do something about every on line troll who spouts it out in Labours name.

With regards to the second article - give me strength - how dare JC have a different economic and foreign policy point of view to the last 2 generations in the UK. I mean NATO itself nearly got us into a war with Putin over their expansion in Ukraine so I think its too influenced by the USA and CIA!


100% THIS
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vidcapper
post 23 hours ago
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QUOTE(Algernon Monqueef @ Aug 23 2019, 03:53 PM) *
100% THIS


But in order to win a GE, Corbyn will have to gain the support of the same sort of people that Blair won over in 1997, and I just can't see that happening.

Blair won by ditching a lot of the left-wing baggage e.g. Clause 4, and keeping control over the unions - AFAICS, Corbyn is threatening to reverse a lot of that - and that scares middle-ground voters away!
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Rooney
post 19 hours ago
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QUOTE(TheJüpreme @ Aug 23 2019, 12:15 PM) *
Out of interest, watching from the outside I'm fascinated to have watched the English/UK media manage to shift the view of Mr Corbyn - who seems to me literalky the stereotype of an inoffensive older English man who likes gardening and is generally friendly & well-meaning - into this bizarre fearmongering image that I don't recognise in the guy at all.

What's up with that? Does anyone here who's not rabidly rightwing have an opinion on that? Like I genuinely am confused at his unpopularity with so many in the UK when he seems to be basically the nice British person stereotype that the UK has over the years tried to sell to the rest of the world. (While Boris and a lot of his Cabinet also appear like stereotypical English villain characters in the style of e.g. a Bond film) It seems from the outside like a really strange distortion of reality.



Plenty of reasons- firstly there is a reason he has been a backbencher for the most of his political career. You have to be media savvy these days unfortunately, this is something Corbyn is not.

I also feel that a lot of his key policies are just unachiveable in the day and age when business rules. Nationalising a load of businesses is a waste of public money and there is little guarantee they will actually work. Most voters have been exposed to capitalism and lots of peoplethink they're richer than they actually are. True grassroot politics just does not have the sway these days. You need at least a majority of the media on your side, which Corbyn has little.
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Steve201
post 18 hours ago
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But he doesn't want to nationalise a load of businesses he wants to nationalise monopolies that are in the public interest to nationalise such as water/electric/public transport and there has been seen to be genuine public support for this. People aren't being given a fair turn by privatised utilities which everyone needs and has s right to for a fair price. He's not looking to nationalise Ryanair or Boots chemist like.

You also act like capitalisms in place so it can't be reversed - the same was true 70 and 100 years ago but people see the inequalities it brings and are disgusted by this.

I believe people want a free society but also a FAIR one and regulations are needed to ensure the minority of racketeers in society play a fair game.

As for Vids point - JC one a decent coalition of 40% on a fair democratic socialist platform in 2017 so it is possible. The electoral coalition won by Blair in 1997 has moved on and we live in a different time now.
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Algernon Monquee...
post 18 hours ago
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QUOTE(Rooney @ Aug 24 2019, 09:47 AM) *
Plenty of reasons- firstly there is a reason he has been a backbencher for the most of his political career. You have to be media savvy these days unfortunately, this is something Corbyn is not.

I also feel that a lot of his key policies are just unachiveable in the day and age when business rules. Nationalising a load of businesses is a waste of public money and there is little guarantee they will actually work. Most voters have been exposed to capitalism and lots of peoplethink they're richer than they actually are. True grassroot politics just does not have the sway these days. You need at least a majority of the media on your side, which Corbyn has little.


Nationalising vital services is necessary. It is also free for the railways oops. The others will recoupd the losses. Those assets should neeever have been stolen.

The only reason why business rules is because we now live in oligarchies with the rich ruling - Tories. The UN held up its policies as an example of governments of the future. Worldwide, economists have said it works. It worked in Iceland and Portugal. It worked in America under FDR. Soo yeaaa.
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