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Presumed Consent
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vidcapper
post Feb 28 2019, 06:55 AM
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Soon to clear parliament is this law, under which it is presumed that you want to donate your organs after death, unless you specifically state otherwise.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/au...presume-consent

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-...s-sinister.html

How do you feel about this law?
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Izzy
post Feb 28 2019, 08:27 AM
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Itís good. Pragmatically, donating your organs to medicine is the right thing to do, they are of no use to anyone rotting in the ground. If anyone has a belief system or morals that contradict this for some reason, then they are free to opt out. And opt out should get higher numbers of vital organs than opt in, reducing waiting lists for everyone.
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T Boy
post Feb 28 2019, 08:46 AM
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I can never understand why people get bothered by this law.

1) itís great that organs you are no longer using can make a difference in someonsís life

2) you can opt out if you donít want to do it
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vidcapper
post Feb 28 2019, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE(Iz~ @ Feb 28 2019, 08:27 AM) *
Itís good. Pragmatically, donating your organs to medicine is the right thing to do, they are of no use to anyone rotting in the ground. If anyone has a belief system or morals that contradict this for some reason, then they are free to opt out. And opt out should get higher numbers of vital organs than opt in, reducing waiting lists for everyone.


As long as we don't get a rogue doctor hurrying people along... nono.gif

I basically agree here, although organ screening will have to increased to account for the extra volume. to make sure you're not accidentally transplanting diseased organs. Currently there are about 1600 donors, but this could conceivably rise 100-fold!


This post has been edited by vidcapper: Feb 28 2019, 08:51 AM
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vidcapper
post Feb 28 2019, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Feb 28 2019, 08:46 AM) *
I can never understand why people get bothered by this law.

1) itís great that organs you are no longer using can make a difference in someonsís life

2) you can opt out if you donít want to do it


I wonder how easy opting out will be, though? My experience of gov't suggests that they will make it as difficult as possible - loads of form-filling, interviews, doctor's reports etc - a bureaucratic nightmare that would make dying seem preferable!
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T Boy
post Feb 28 2019, 09:00 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Feb 28 2019, 08:56 AM) *
I wonder how easy opting out will be, though? My experience of gov't suggests that they will make it as difficult as possible - loads of form-filling, interviews, doctor's reports etc - a bureaucratic nightmare that would make dying seem preferable!


If you care enough then youíll fill in all the forms you can. Youíll presumeably have plenty of time to do so before you die.

Tbh though even if someone was killed by a bus before they could revoke their consent, they wouldnít be around to be upset that their organs are potentially helping instead of rotting in the ground.
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vidcapper
post Feb 28 2019, 09:22 AM
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Playing devil's advocate...

Traditionally, it is your family that owns your body after death, but this new law seems as if it will transfer ownership to the gov't instead? unsure.gif

Are they really people you'd trust getting their hands on it? rolleyes.gif


This post has been edited by vidcapper: Feb 28 2019, 09:22 AM
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T Boy
post Feb 28 2019, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Feb 28 2019, 09:22 AM) *
Playing devil's advocate...

Traditionally, it is your family that owns your body after death, but this new law seems as if it will transfer ownership to the gov't instead? unsure.gif

Are they really people you'd trust getting their hands on it? rolleyes.gif


What on Earth would you speculate them doing with them? It’s like the height of paranoia.

I really don’t think my family will care at all whether they own my rotting organs or not and would be happy someone else gets the chance to use them.
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vidcapper
post Feb 28 2019, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE(T Boy @ Feb 28 2019, 10:04 AM) *
What on Earth would you speculate them doing with them? Itís like the height of paranoia.


I'd have said 'depths' myself - but it was clearly a joke anyway!



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vidcapper
post Feb 28 2019, 10:16 AM
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Organ donor stats...

https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/news-and-c...se-in-28-years/

I had no idea that so few people's organs were even suitable for donation! ohmy.gif
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Envoirment
post Feb 28 2019, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Feb 28 2019, 10:16 AM) *
Organ donor stats...

https://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/news-and-c...se-in-28-years/

I had no idea that so few people's organs were even suitable for donation! ohmy.gif


That's why it's so important for people to donate.

I'm really happy this law is coming into effect soon. I recently joined a different GP and one of the forms was an organ donation one. It was really easy to fill in, so I assume an opt-out option will be just as easy.
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Popchartfreak
post Feb 28 2019, 11:45 PM
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Private eye reports China is using ethnic minority prisoners as organ donors. As in killing them to use as live organ banks. Numbers of operations far exceeds numbers of donors and prisoners are never heard from again. I'd say the proposed system is much fairer than that as long as there's no risk of comatose people called brain dead getting tossed into the mix without family consent
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vidcapper
post Mar 2 2019, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE(Popchartfreak @ Feb 28 2019, 11:45 PM) *
I'd say the proposed system is much fairer than that as long as there's no risk of comatose people called brain dead getting tossed into the mix without family consent


Should we Leavers be worried, then? w00t.gif
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TheSnake
post Mar 2 2019, 11:50 AM
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I still feel uncomfortable about this for a few reasons:

1. It is possible that a few people, especially older people who don't have family/are estranged from their family may not know about the changes so when they die presumed consent means organ donation may take place against their will. Not everyone watches the TV news or has the internet. Also it may not be in the interest of the government to promote the changes too much as that may lead to more people opting out wink.gif I certainly hope this doesn't turn out to be the case sad.gif

2. Sadly there will always be some people will die before they will make an informed choice about whether they want organ donation, rather like the fact there are always people who die before having made a will.

3. As vidcapper said, it might be made difficult to opt out. And also the fact the government and not the family owns the body after one dies is a bit unsettling.

However the changes will encourage more organ donation and help save more lives and so I do think that the good points outweigh the bad about this new change in the law I think. However these points I have raised certainly need to be considered, and I certainly hope the new changes are widely promoted to ensure there is nobody who doesn't know about the changes and dies without realizing there is presumed consent for organ donation.


This post has been edited by The Snake: Mar 2 2019, 12:14 PM
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T Boy
post Mar 2 2019, 02:34 PM
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QUOTE(The Snake @ Mar 2 2019, 11:50 AM) *
I still feel uncomfortable about this for a few reasons:

1. It is possible that a few people, especially older people who don't have family/are estranged from their family may not know about the changes so when they die presumed consent means organ donation may take place against their will. Not everyone watches the TV news or has the internet. Also it may not be in the interest of the government to promote the changes too much as that may lead to more people opting out wink.gif I certainly hope this doesn't turn out to be the case sad.gif

2. Sadly there will always be some people will die before they will make an informed choice about whether they want organ donation, rather like the fact there are always people who die before having made a will.

3. As vidcapper said, it might be made difficult to opt out. And also the fact the government and not the family owns the body after one dies is a bit unsettling.

However the changes will encourage more organ donation and help save more lives and so I do think that the good points outweigh the bad about this new change in the law I think. However these points I have raised certainly need to be considered, and I certainly hope the new changes are widely promoted to ensure there is nobody who doesn't know about the changes and dies without realizing there is presumed consent for organ donation.


To be honest, I feel these concerns are a bit OTT. Presumed Consent already is a thing in Wales and has been for a couple of years. It was heavily advertised that it was coming and we were all sent information in the post about it so if England do the same everyone will know in those situations you mention.

Yes people could die before making the choice-but surely if you felt strongly about it, you would have made a decision as soon as you were aware of the law?

And it wonít be difficult to opt out. And even if it is, surely youíll go through the required effort if your organs rotting with you is so important to you.

I genuinely donít think I can understand why anyone would be so against the idea of donating organs they no longer need so that someone else gets a chance. But I guess thatís another matter.
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Botchia
post Mar 3 2019, 01:09 PM
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I don't see how people can be legitimately opposed to this. What better legacy can you have after you leave earth than to giving someone else a second lease of life?
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vidcapper
post Mar 3 2019, 02:32 PM
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Something just occurred to me : Since only a tiny fraction of dead people have organs suitable to transplant, who then owns all the others - the gov't, or the families?
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T Boy
post Mar 3 2019, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE(vidcapper @ Mar 3 2019, 02:32 PM) *
Something just occurred to me : Since only a tiny fraction of dead people have organs suitable to transplant, who then owns all the others - the gov't, or the families?


I donít really care. Iím not interested in hanging on to any of my familyís organs. The government can keep them.
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